What Breed does Iso-Dora resemble?

[northernglow]

ooh, very cool looking. OK so if blue is dilute of black, and cream is dilute of red, are lilacs and fawns dilutes too? Dilutes of blue and cream? what is silver then? Sorry if these are stupid questions

Lilac is the dilute of chocolate and fawn is a dilute of cinnamon. There are no dilutes of dilutes (which blue, cream, lilac and fawn are), there is a dilute modifier gene though but I'm not really sure how that works, what I know is that it turns blue into caramel, lilac to taupe and cream to apricot, and then there's amber for Norwegian Forest Cats which again I'm not sure of, it's unique for the breed.

Silver is an inhibitor gene which affects to the amount of color in the hair shaft, the amount of silver defines if a cat is a smoke, shaded or chinchilla. Smoke is the only genetically patternless form of silver (non-agouti), shaded, chinchilla and tabbies are all agoutis (have a pattern). The roots are pure white(=silver). Silver always has a 'main color', which can be any color except white. Cat can't be only silver without any other color. Silver is dominant, it can't be carried.

 

[Willowy]

Hehe, I have a kitty I consider "tortie and white", as opposed to another I have who is definitely "calico". I'll try to get pics of the 2 of them and post them here to illustrate what I think the difference is.

 

[redvelvetone]

thanks for the explanations

Am i correct in assuming cinnamon and chocolate are not found in moggies?

Probably why I have not seen any cats with this type of coloring as all of my pets and my friend's pets are mostly moggies.

 

[northernglow]

thanks for the explanations

Am i correct in assuming cinnamon and chocolate are not found in moggies?

Probably why I have not seen any cats with this type of coloring as all of my pets and my friend's pets are mostly moggies.

I've seen chocolate moggies, but not cinnamons. Doesn't mean they don't exist though. A rare color in moggies none the less (chocolate).

 

[orientalslave]

You might find these interesting:

http://www.oriental-cat-breeder.co.uk/a-history-of-the-havana.php

http://www.havanaandorientallilaccc.co.uk/beginnings.htm

Chocolate has certainly been in the cats that are behind Siamese for a very long time.

 

[catspaw66]

You were right. Those were very interesting. 

 

[justsanker]

Here's a lilac tortie BSH (surprise there.. xD) http://catza.net/en/view/feat/j/062108/  more lilac torties here: http://catza.net/en/browse/feat/j/

And fawn tortie pics (Brits again, sorry..) http://www.katzen-adel.de/cinn-engl-Farbe-fawn-tortie-wh.htm

In the US the first picture would be referred to as Lilac Tortoieshell and the the third link, still a diluted calico.

I'm trying to make sure that i am not being misunderstood here.

I do not think that a calico is different from a tortoiseshell I do not think that calico is a breed.

I am trying to discuss feline linguistics here.

In the US if you said "I saw a diluted calico", most Americans would conjure the image of the cat in the 3rd link.

Perhaps the majority of us cat lovers in the US, who are not cat fanciers or breeders, are simply trying to differenciate between different tortie 'looks'

 

[missymotus]

Perhaps the majority of us cat lovers in the US, who are not cat fanciers or breeders, are simply trying to differenciate between different tortie 'looks'

I think some of the issue is many believe "dilute" is just one colour (usually blue as that's the most common moggie dilute) but dilute is actually several colours. Lilac, blue, fawn, cream

Both of NG's links are of diluted colurs in lilac and fawn.  Fawn and Lilac, along with their dense colours Cinnamon and Chocolate are not common in moggs.

 

[northernglow]

In the US if you said "I saw a diluted calico", most Americans would conjure the image of the cat in the 3rd link.

So in US blue and fawn are described with the same term? How will you know what color you're referring to if they're all called the same?

(I have this problem with 'gray' and 'orange' cats, they seem to mean more than 10 different colors in real life, so without a pic I cannot know what color the 'gray' or 'orange' cat really is which has been a 'problem' few times, like when someone asks what color kittens their cat could have, she's gray tabby and the dad is orange, no pics included).

 

[missymotus]

So in US blue and fawn are described with the same term? 

No they aren't. A Fawn Ocicat is very different to a Blue Ocicat in the US and worldwide 

Fawn would also not be seen in moggies, blue moggies are common and thus blue torties. 

 

[orientalslave]

Dilute is shorthand for blue, lilac or fawn.  In the UK at a GCCF show BSH have a class for black / chocolate / cinnamon torties, and another for the dilutes - for blue, lilac or fawn torties.  Any individual cat would be described by it's colour, not as a dilute.

 

[northernglow]

No they aren't. A Fawn Ocicat is very different to a Blue Ocicat in the US and worldwide 

But JustSanker said that blue torties with white are called 'dilute calicos', and so are the fawn torties. Quotes: " [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]If it is a cream/blue tortie with large blocks of color, in the US we call it a 'Diluted Calico.'" and [/color]"[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]In the US if you said "I saw a diluted calico", most Americans would conjure the image of the cat in the 3rd link." [/color]  

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The cat in the 3rd link is a fawn tortie with white. That's why I'm now confused how they know what color they are talking about (outside the cat fancy).[/color]

*eta* forum is acting weird, posting issues.

 

[orientalslave]

But JustSanker said that blue torties with white are called 'dilute calicos', and so are the fawn torties. ...

And so are lilac torties.  They are all cats that are homozygous for the dilute gene.  But their papers don't say 'dilute tortie', they will have whatever colour the cat is.  'dilute' is being used as a collective noun in 'dilute calicos'.

In the UK of course we would call them all 'tortie and white'.

 

[Willowy]

But remember, with only around 60,000 registered purebreds in the U.S. (averages to what? 1200 per state?), how many of us of us have ever met a registered purebred, much less know what the proper name for their colors might be? We call 'em like we see 'em.

 

[northernglow]

And so are lilac torties.  They are all cats that are homozygous for the dilute gene.  But their papers don't say 'dilute tortie', they will have whatever colour the cat is.  'dilute' is being used as a collective noun in 'dilute calicos'.

I think it would make more sense to call them 'blue calico' or 'lilac calico' (if the term calico has to be used) etc. It's definitely not harder to say 'blue' than 'dilute', and it would be less confusing to get a mental image of what the cat actually looks like, than call all colors the same and have an album of pics in your mind of all the options what color the cat might be (assuming the cat or a pic of her is not available).

 

Here we simply call them lilac torties, blue torties, choco torties and so on, only the black/brown tortie is called just a tortie (with white, if needed).

 

[missymotus]

Here we simply call them lilac torties, blue torties, choco torties and so on, only the black/brown tortie is called just a tortie (with white, if needed).

No, no, no NG. There's to be no using correct terms, sable/brown is the 'same' as chocolate, blue is the 'same' as fawn

Though I am curious as to how many Fawn Torties are wandering the streets of the US? Since that was one specifically mentioned and quoted as what most Americans would be seeing and calling dilute. Especially with Fawn being one of the rarer ped colours.

 

[stealthkitty]

Though I am curious as to how many Fawn Torties are wandering the streets of the US? Since that was one specifically mentioned and quoted as what most Americans would be seeing and calling dilute. Especially with Fawn being one of the rarer ped colours.

I think what JustSanker said was:

In the US if you said "I saw a diluted calico", most Americans would conjure the image of the cat in the 3rd link.

 

[Willowy]

A blue and um, cream? (the usual dilute calico/tortie colors anyway) tortie looks an awful lot like a lilac/fawn (or whatever) tortie to the untrained eye :dk:.

Is the ratio of pedigree to non-pedigree cats lower in Europe? Are people there more in tune with the show cat system? It seems odd for everyone to be ridiculed for not knowing the specialized lingo of such a teensy percentage of the cat-owning population.

 

[speakhandsforme]

In the US, we call this a tortoiseshell:

TortoiseshellCat(Tortie)_FelisCatusWCtC_AcFpC100.j

• speakhandsforme
• Nov 13, 2012

Looks sort of like a "brindle" dog.

And we call this a calico.

CalicoCat.jpg

• speakhandsforme
• Nov 13, 2012

The red and black patches are just that -- patches -- and not as "mixed in" as in the tortie.

So cat #2 in other countries would be called a tortoiseshell and white?

 

[stealthkitty]

Speakhandsforme,

Thank you for posting the photos; they illustrate the point nicely.

Would you say that in the US, the tortoiseshell (as shown in the first picture) is considered a type of calico?