Vet is pushing vaccine for my cat with chronic pancreatitis

[goholistic]

I haven't posted an update because I've been trying to recover from a state of utter shock and intense hostility. I was hoping the feelings would lessen over time, so please bear with me if you still sense harsh malice in my tone.

If you recall, I was dreading Sebastian's vet visit on Wednesday, 8/20 because of the conversation I would have to have with the vet about [not] giving him the rabies vaccine.

After all the scenarios I played over and over again in my mind, after all the phone calls I made to holistic vets to help me with this, after all the research I did for something to work in our favor, never in a MILLION years did I think that the vet would give Sebastian the rabies vaccine without my consent. That's exactly what she did when they took him in the back to draw blood and urine for routine lab work. I consented to the blood and urine and a mini-ultrasound, but not the rabies vaccine, and they gave it to him anyway. I did already instruct them NOT to give it without a discussion and my consent. As if things couldn't get any worse, it was a killed virus adjuvanted vaccine. Oh, wait, things did get worse. The ultrasound showed his pancreas was slightly inflamed, so he's in the middle of a mild flare. On top of that, his weight is at an all time low. Clearly he's not at his best and they gave him the rabies vaccine anyway. This was the ONE thing I ever challenged her on. No number of fancy adjectives could describe what I was feeling. I was livid. I was upset. I was disappointed. All ten fold. I.....went.....off. The last time I was this mad was 13 years ago.

48 hours after receiving the vaccine, he stopped eating and became lethargic. (He never stopped eating for me during this mild flare.)  I have a hard enough time as it is with his condition alone.

This was a lose-lose situation for everyone. The vet irreversibly pissed me off and poor Sebastian is the biggest loser of all. We have failed him. I have failed him. Now I'm trying to mentally work through all this and determine a path forward. I don't know that I can forgive and forget. Not this.

 

[denice]

I would be very upset as well.  I think that would be a deal breaker for me with this vet.  

 

[abbyntim]

I am so, so sorry to read this update. I had been wondering what happened. Due to Sebastian's condition and your expressed concern, I am very disappointed they gave him the vaccine without any discussion with you.

It's interesting that some of the discussions on this thread centered around maintaining the relationship and *trust* with the vet. I don't think I would trust them after this. Are they at least helping you cope with Sebastian's current flare? This is terrible; how is he doing? And you did not fail Sebastian. You prepared and did all that you could. The vet failed you both: failed to communicate, failed to take your opinions and research into account, failed to take the best interests of the animal in account, failed to comprehend that the burden to give a rabies vaccine to a cat is on the owner. I think I would expect them to help me get Sebastian through this, then find someone else.

I am so sorry.

 

[peaches08]

OMG I am so sorry.  Have you called t report how he's doing?  Have they called you to check on him?  I don't even know what to say.  I don't know what par of "no" was so unclear.  Furthermore, it sounds like they just gave it without even challenging you on it, like they took your baby to the back and said "she doesn't know what she's talking about...give the vaccine anyway" and just did it. 

I'm at a loss.  I normally try to keep all vets as an option in the case of an emergency, but I'm not sure I could trust this vet with anything.  I am so, SO sorry.

 

[Willowy]

Wow. You should file a complaint with the state board. It is NOT OK for a vet to do something without your consent. Hope poor Sebastian can muddle through this and not be too badly affected by it.

 

[abbyntim]

Wow. You should file a complaint with the state board. It is NOT OK for a vet to do something without your consent. Hope poor Sebastian can muddle through this and not be too badly affected by it.

I agree. I was thinking the same thing after I posted my response.

 

[peaches08]

Wow. You should file a complaint with the state board. It is NOT OK for a vet to do something without your consent. Hope poor Sebastian can muddle through this and not be too badly affected by it.

Yes!  She needs to explain her actions.  I really don't think that the rabies law is enough.

 

[zoneout]

Wow. You should file a complaint with the state board. It is NOT OK for a vet to do something without your consent. Hope poor Sebastian can muddle through this and not be too badly affected by it.

The problem is these vets get around this by having you sign a waiver or disclaimer before they treat the animal.   So pretty much you have no recourse.   I am REALLY, REALLY sorry this happenned, in a way I could see it coming...    The problem is Sebastian`s paperwork/chart at this vet office showed he was due for a rabies shot.   Pretty much, the techs do most of the grunt work, so even you tell the vet `no` - a tech will robotically do it anyway.

 

[denice]

There really isn't much that can be done about poor practices by a vet.  You can make a complaint with the state board but the punishments usually consists of small fines and taking a class.  The last time I looked at the lists of punishments by the Ohio board, in the last 2 years which is all they show only one vet had their license pulled and one vet could only practice under direct supervision by another vet.  The rest were the small fines and a class.  Of course there is the negative publicity of being on the list but most people don't know where to look for that list.

Small animal vets are law suit proof because animals are considered property.  You can only sue for the monetary value of the animal and vet fees.

 

[sarah ann]

You should have taken him to a different vet. Whenever my cats vaccines aren't up to date, I always tell the vet that they are, and that I had the cats vaccinated at the vaccine clinic.

I have never had a vet challenge me about it.

Vets are required by law to give a rabies vaccine.  The vet was just doing her job, and you cannot blame them for that.

Next time, use a different clinic, as by now that clinic has realized you are someone who does not believe in vaccines.

You have to keep in mind, if that cat ever bites anyone, it will be euthanized without a rabies vaccine. So if it scratches a friend, and they complain, you could be in trouble. If it bites or scratches the vet, etc.

 

[Willowy]

 Vets are required by law to give a rabies vaccine.  The vet was just doing her job, and you cannot blame them for that.

Vets are not required to give rabies vaccines. The owners are required to make sure their pet gets the rabies vaccine; it's not the vet's job to enforce that requirement.

The problem is these vets get around this by having you sign a waiver or disclaimer before they treat the animal.

I've never signed a waiver/disclaimer, except before surgeries. Is that a normal thing for vets to do for routine care?

Small animal vets are law suit proof because animals are considered property.

This is also why it's not allowed for vets to do something without the owner's consent. They can't do stuff to your property without your permission.

I still think it's worth it to file a complaint. Not much will happen but it might make the vet think twice before doing it again.

 

[goholistic]

Thanks, all, for your thoughts.

The language of the law in my state says that it is the owner's responsibility to vaccinate and keep a valid certificate. It is not the law for vets to enforce vaccinations. They may have their own private business policy within their clinic not to treat animals who are not vaccinated, but that's entirely different.

I do not have a blanket "no vaccine" belief. But in Sebastian's case, I challenged it. He's an indoors senior cat with a difficult chronic illness.

She knew I was (am) very concerned. We discussed it before in person. We discussed it over the phone. And while we were there I once again instructed them not to give it without my consent and that I wanted to discuss it first. We could have come to an agreement...a compromise...to perhaps do it when he is feeling better or to select a vaccine that would be better for him (non-adjuvanted) and lay out a plan if he crashes. Or I could have had the right to walk out the door. That is my right. To completely disregard my concerns and ignore my request to have a discussion first is, to me, them not doing their job.

I am not going to sue or file a complaint or anything like that. I'm not that kind of person. Plus, I'd have to be pretty sure I'm not going to use that vet anymore. I let her know right then and there how I felt. She admitted to giving the vaccine (not the nurse or tech). She apologized more than I cared to hear. I do question how genuine the apology was. I almost feel like they just give the vaccine and say "oops" knowing that it can't be taken back. She ALWAYS gets my consent on everything. But not this? She ended up taking the cost of the vaccine and ultrasound off my bill for that day. She offered to pay for his post-vaccine homeopathic remedies. She did call to ask how he was doing and let me know how his blood work came out. She called again a few days later.

What's done is done. Right now I'm at a standstill. I need to be able to get everything Sebastian needs without delay or questions asked. I did some research and gathered a list of other vets, even a few mobile ones that serve my area. Sebastian's not doing as good as I want him to right now. He's eating, but has abdominal discomfort and I've been administering pain meds for that. We've upped his sub-q fluids to every day.

 

[peaches08]

 
You should have taken him to a different vet. Whenever my cats vaccines aren't up to date, I always tell the vet that they are, and that I had the cats vaccinated at the vaccine clinic.

I have never had a vet challenge me about it.

Vets are required by law to give a rabies vaccine.  The vet was just doing her job, and you cannot blame them for that.

Next time, use a different clinic, as by now that clinic has realized you are someone who does not believe in vaccines.

You have to keep in mind, if that cat ever bites anyone, it will be euthanized without a rabies vaccine. So if it scratches a friend, and they complain, you could be in trouble. If it bites or scratches the vet, etc.

Maybe that's a state-by-state thing, because not all states do this.  Most quarantine the animal and if there are symptoms within that specified period of time, THEN the animal is euthanized and tested.

GoHolistic is NOT someone who doesn't believe in vaccines, she clearly explained her reasons for not wanting this cat to receive a specific vaccine because of the danger it would and now has caused him.

@GoHolistic, I've been in your shoes of having to use vets that weren't good, trustworthy, and etc...I feel for you.  I hope you find a better one soon. Even if it means them calling in scripts to CVS/Walgreens to help you until he can travel to where they are.  I certainly hope he starts eating better soon, as well as recovers from this flair without any lasting consequences.

 

[denice]

I know in Ohio if an animal has up to date vaccine they can be quarantined at home and checked by a vet at the end of the quarantine.  If there is no up to date vaccine then the animal has to be quarantined either by animal control or at a licensed vet clinic.  Of course the quarantine at a vet clinic is at the owner's expense.

 

[iluvcats3]

I am certainly angry to read what has done. I hope your kitty is doing better now. I have never met such a. . . single minded vet like that before. All my vets thru the years acknowledged that there is controversy and explained their reasoning along with their recommendations and for years every pet owner in my family has had vets say if a cat is sick and old (all have been indoor kitties) the risk is low and probably best to skip shots. But there is no statewide law here, not even for dogs.

 

[zoneout]

Well at least she has been honest about her mistake and has reached out with Seb`s care and progress updates - I give her credit for that.   You`re right - whats done is done - and Seb needs your attention and focus now.   Hopefully once his body has acclimated to the injection he will get over this flareup.   Thing is to keep him stable now and any stress to a minimum.

Here`s a heavy dose of good vibe.  

 

[that guy]

I find it hard to believe they would put the cats health at risk for shots because if his immune system is weakened it could kill him. If you were just some regular 'Joe' for lack of a better word you could have said yes and he could have died. My cat is in a similar situation as yours and she said there was no way she would give him any shots at his age (19) and condition (IBS, pancreatitis, and renal failure) unless they were directly related to his issues. As a professional you would think she would be the one saying don't do it knowing the condition of your cat.

I guess what it really comes down to is she the best vet for your cat? Does she know about his issues and how to treat them? If you can come to an agreement about the rabies shots and they are a good practice then keep dealing with them. What you really need to do is book some time with any new prospective vet and interview them before taking your cat there. They are there to sell their service and because you are knowledgeable about your cats illnesses you can ask some questions and see what they know about it. My vet was having a hard time getting to the bottom of some of my guys issues so she brought in a feline specialist to review his case and see if she could find anything that may have been missed.

Trying another vet would never hurt but would be nice to see if they can help you out anymore than the vet you are currently seeing.

 

[stewball]

Wow. You should file a complaint with the state board. It is NOT OK for a vet to do something without your consent. Hope poor Sebastian can muddle through this and not be too badly affected by it.

 

[stewball]

I agree with Willow. He should be reported to the state board. He pulled a sneaky trick with no concern to the health of Sebastian.
I don't live in America but years ago my vet said she won't be vaccinating my cats as they're house cats.
All blood work is done in front of me.

 

[stewball]

Thanks, all, for your thoughts.

The language of the law in my state says that it is the owner's responsibility to vaccinate and keep a valid certificate. It is not the law for vets to enforce vaccinations. They may have their own private business policy within their clinic not to treat animals who are not vaccinated, but that's entirely different.

I do not have a blanket "no vaccine" belief. But in Sebastian's case, I challenged it. He's an indoors senior cat with a difficult chronic illness.

She knew I was (am) very concerned. We discussed it before in person. We discussed it over the phone. And while we were there I once again instructed them not to give it without my consent and that I wanted to discuss it first. We could have come to an agreement...a compromise...to perhaps do it when he is feeling better or to select a vaccine that would be better for him (non-adjuvanted) and lay out a plan if he crashes. Or I could have had the right to walk out the door. That is my right. To completely disregard my concerns and ignore my request to have a discussion first is, to me, them not doing their job.

I am not going to sue or file a complaint or anything like that. I'm not that kind of person. Plus, I'd have to be pretty sure I'm not going to use that vet anymore. I let her know right then and there how I felt. She admitted to giving the vaccine (not the nurse or tech). She apologized more than I cared to hear. I do question how genuine the apology was. I almost feel like they just give the vaccine and say "oops" knowing that it can't be taken back. She ALWAYS gets my consent on everything. But not this? She ended up taking the cost of the vaccine and ultrasound off my bill for that day. She offered to pay for his post-vaccine homeopathic remedies. She did call to ask how he was doing and let me know how his blood work came out. She called again a few days later.

What's done is done. Right now I'm at a standstill. I need to be able to get everything Sebastian needs without delay or questions asked. I did some research and gathered a list of other vets, even a few mobile ones that serve my area. Sebastian's not doing as good as I want him to right now. He's eating, but has abdominal discomfort and I've been administering pain meds for that. We've upped his sub-q fluids to every day.

Well at least she has been honest about her mistake and has reached out with Seb`s care and progress updates - I give her credit for that.   You`re right - whats done is done - and Seb needs your attention and focus now.   Hopefully once his body has acclimated to the injection he will get over this flareup.   Thing is to keep him stable now and any stress to a minimum.

Here`s a heavy dose of good vibe.