Touching face/ head with paw during play

[mservant]

Cats don't really have a strong drive to dominate anybody. I mean, they don't really have a pack like dogs do; there's no alpha in a group of cats. There are cats who are better at getting their own way; there are cats that are more demanding. But dominance? Not really, not in solitary hunters. With a cat, you have to either negotiate and form a compromise, or simply prove to the cat that you are the more stubborn and in that particular matter are going to have your way. Cats aren't dogs. They can be pretty willful and stubborn, and you can get them to do what you want, but you're only going to get them to do that one particular thing. They're not going to acknowledge you as dominant because they don't understand "dominant". It's not part of the way they live. If both cats want the choice window spot, they may share it, or one cat may bully the other cat out of it, but that's not going to settle who gets the first treat or who gets to perch on top of the refrigerator.

Staring at a cat is aggressive and overstimulating. A more polite way is to look briefly, then look away or blink slowly. That says, "I am here. I know you are here. I seek peaceful coexistence." It is a cat's version of a smile, to glance and then look away.

I guess it's a bit of a fine distinction. There are cats who rule the roost in their household, getting their own way most of the time. But these cats aren't true dominant cats, not like a dog would be. They are just more confident or persistent or sneaky. Other cats don't recognize their dominance. They don't think, "This is the top cat in the house." They just think, "I have to give in when this cat wants the window spot."

When you train a cat, your best bet is more like communication or negotiation than, as you would with dogs, establishing yourself as a trustworthy leader. Convince the cat, "It is in your best interest to do this when I want you to do it," or, "I am stubborn enough that you won't get away with doing that," and the cat will listen. Just remember that a cat will not obey what you want when you are out of sight. When you are not there, as far as your cat is concerned, what you want doesn't matter, because you are not there to get upset about it. And by the time you get back, the cat has no way of knowing what you are angry about. When you don't like what a cat is doing to you, though, you don't have to worry about that, since obviously there's no opportunity to do it when you're gone.

With the possible exception of kitten-and-mother, a cat is incapable of seeing anyone else as anything other than an equal. If you want something from a cat, you have to convince the cat to do it. You can't demand things just because you're the human and the cat is a cat. Humans are social animals, in the sense that we psychologically need and naturally form social structures. Cats are not social in the same way. For a human, social interaction is the center of life. For a cat, social interaction is an interesting diversion. When they socialize, it's because they want to, not because they need to.

I think I've been rambling on a bit. Oh well... serves me right, staying up 'til 2 a.m. I should get some sleep.

I do agree with Callista, my wording of dominance would probably have been better described as looking more confident and or stubborn than him, and making it clear to him that I am not going to play in the way he wants to when he presents in certain ways - like going to jump at my head.  The eye gaze I used was not lengthy but enough not to be either friendly or submissive.  I have a very confident cat and until last week I had never seen him frightened of anything: it seems he is not at all happy about the crying noise from the new (6 week old) baby that lives in our block of flats when she's carried past outside our door. She seems to hate being carried up all the stairs!  (

 She's hardly any bigger than him and way less dangerous coz she can't move about yet!)   I briefly introduced him to her a couple of days ago so he could see what was making this alien noise and this brief sighting seems to have been enough to persuade him that she is not as big and nasty as he thought so even that doesn't phase him now.

Asterix000, when Mouse is over excited and I remove him from the room I do have to shut him out of the room I am in otherwise he too would simply keep repeating- though probably not so much as your little darling. If he does do it again the removal and door shutting is repeated - I'm sure how long each cat needs to calm or distract varies but I don't see it as a punishment, simply a calming and distracting measure that we can move on from (or enables me to finish a task safely if I have to).  I think he prefers to be able to see what's going on and hates being shut out of rooms so this seems to be a motivator for him to calm down too. I wholeheartedly agree with the general themes on this site - understanding and knowing what motivates your cat and giving positive rewards tends to be the best way to develop trusting and compatible living arrangements. It's just that not becoming a quivering, timid wreck before you've figured out that first bit can be challenging at times! 

 

[miskinsincap]

Cats don't really have a strong drive to dominate anybody. I mean, they don't really have a pack like dogs do; there's no alpha in a group of cats. There are cats who are better at getting their own way; there are cats that are more demanding. But dominance? Not really, not in solitary hunters. With a cat, you have to either negotiate and form a compromise, or simply prove to the cat that you are the more stubborn and in that particular matter are going to have your way. Cats aren't dogs. They can be pretty willful and stubborn, and you can get them to do what you want, but you're only going to get them to do that one particular thing. They're not going to acknowledge you as dominant because they don't understand "dominant". It's not part of the way they live. If both cats want the choice window spot, they may share it, or one cat may bully the other cat out of it, but that's not going to settle who gets the first treat or who gets to perch on top of the refrigerator.

Staring at a cat is aggressive and overstimulating. A more polite way is to look briefly, then look away or blink slowly. That says, "I am here. I know you are here. I seek peaceful coexistence." It is a cat's version of a smile, to glance and then look away.

I guess it's a bit of a fine distinction. There are cats who rule the roost in their household, getting their own way most of the time. But these cats aren't true dominant cats, not like a dog would be. They are just more confident or persistent or sneaky. Other cats don't recognize their dominance. They don't think, "This is the top cat in the house." They just think, "I have to give in when this cat wants the window spot."

When you train a cat, your best bet is more like communication or negotiation than, as you would with dogs, establishing yourself as a trustworthy leader. Convince the cat, "It is in your best interest to do this when I want you to do it," or, "I am stubborn enough that you won't get away with doing that," and the cat will listen. Just remember that a cat will not obey what you want when you are out of sight. When you are not there, as far as your cat is concerned, what you want doesn't matter, because you are not there to get upset about it. And by the time you get back, the cat has no way of knowing what you are angry about. When you don't like what a cat is doing to you, though, you don't have to worry about that, since obviously there's no opportunity to do it when you're gone.

With the possible exception of kitten-and-mother, a cat is incapable of seeing anyone else as anything other than an equal. If you want something from a cat, you have to convince the cat to do it. You can't demand things just because you're the human and the cat is a cat. Humans are social animals, in the sense that we psychologically need and naturally form social structures. Cats are not social in the same way. For a human, social interaction is the center of life. For a cat, social interaction is an interesting diversion. When they socialize, it's because they want to, not because they need to.

I think I've been rambling on a bit. Oh well... serves me right, staying up 'til 2 a.m. I should get some sleep.

Hmm, I do agree that cats don't follow the usual leadership rules of dogs, they certainly can't be ordered to do anything, and whatever you do they will have a certain way of ignoring your commands. But what I meant with "dominance" has nothing to do with all these. What I experienced is that cats (especially when there are multiple cats living at the same house, farm, etc) have a certain kind of hierarchy (much more complex than dogs) among them, The top cat is not a typical pack leader, after all they're not a pack. He/she is treated more like a much respected family member in human notions. In farms, villages where more or less natural social groups of cats live together, this top cat is usually the mother/grandmother cat, but I think female cats are more likely to be top cats also in houses where a group of nonrelated cats live together. If the structure of the group is not settled, there'll be hisses and fights over favourite spots, toys, food and litter box untill it does.

You're right about humans and "only child" cats. Cats usually treat humans as non-feline species, and when there's only one cat in the family such hierarchy problems rarely occur. But when it does, it is trouble, because then, when you do something that doesn't suit with the cat, you won't just make him uncomfortable, he will also have to defend his position in your small group. And that means hisses, scratches, bites, sometimes at most unexpected times (Peanut liked to try her claws on my husbands face, and she bit and cracked my thumb because I wanted to add more catfood to her plate, and at first I had no idea why she was acting out like that). 

Sorry, maybe I'm also rambling. It's just that I've met some cat groups living together, both in rural areas and cities, and I find their way of socializing very fascinating. And there's also my sweet trouble Peanut; she's 17 now, and life with her is, well, let's say, full of surprises (and now we need to find a way to introduce our 2 month old tabby boy to her, so please wish us luck, we're gonna need lots of it)

 

[maewkaew]

 I just wanted to say something since a couple people who commented seemed to think that a Savannah must be going to get huge.      But this is an F5 Savannah,  and they are really about the size of an average domestic cat.  though they're leggy.     But these are not the really big SVs you may have seen;  those are the F1s, F2s and some F3s.  

asterix,    you might want to ask the breeder about the behavior,   but I can say that it certainly happens sometimes in pure domestics.  

 like my Chatri (Siamese)  as a kitten liked to grab ( with claws retracted) my face with both paws and then lick my nose! lol      

  and my Sammy ( another Siamese) sometimes just touches my face.  

 I found this question on Yahoo Answers where a few people mention that their cats do it.  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120402061339AAK448r

 

[mservant]

 I just wanted to say something since a couple people who commented seemed to think that a Savannah must be going to get huge.      But this is an F5 Savannah,  and they are really about the size of an average domestic cat.  though they're leggy.     But these are not the really big SVs you may have seen;  those are the F1s, F2s and some F3s.  

asterix,    you might want to ask the breeder about the behavior,   but I can say that it certainly happens sometimes in pure domestics.  

 like my Chatri (Siamese)  as a kitten liked to grab ( with claws retracted) my face with both paws and then lick my nose! lol      

  and my Sammy ( another Siamese) sometimes just touches my face.  

 I found this question on Yahoo Answers where a few people mention that their cats do it.  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120402061339AAK448r

Nice information and I think it is important to differentiate between the touching face / head and jumping at head. Gentle touching and exploration is lovely as long as you know the cat or you have explained the behaviour to unsuspecting guests if you think it might happen to them too. 

 

[maewkaew]

 yes , and  it's  a bit confusing  what's going on with the SV kitten  ,  since she makes a dash at the head but with claws not extended,  so  it seems like it is maybe not exactly gentle exploration,  but it's a form of play not meant as aggression.   That one is kind of like my Chatri  the face grabbing nose licking Siamese kitten.    He really startled a friend of mine when he did the same thing to her!  

  I think I will PM Cat Person to look at this since she has experience with hybrids.  

Nice information and I think it is important to differentiate between the touching face / head and jumping at head. Gentle touching and exploration is lovely as long as you know the cat or you have explained the behaviour to unsuspecting guests if you think it might happen to them too. 

 

[mservant]

 yes , and  it's  a bit confusing  what's going on with the SV kitten  ,  since she makes a dash at the head but with claws not extended,  so  it seems like it is maybe not exactly gentle exploration,  but it's a form of play not meant as aggression.   That one is kind of like my Chatri  the face grabbing nose licking Siamese kitten.    He really startled a friend of mine when he did the same thing to her!  

  I think I will PM Cat Person to look at this since she has experience with hybrids.  

The dashes do sound very like what Mouse did when playing with me! I have a friend staying with me this week and she too has has some interesting experiences - particularly over night. 

  

   

 

  

Good luck. Good idea about PM.

 

[natalie_ca]

I had such kitty when I was a teenager. She loved touching my face, but only mine. She used to touch my mouth while I was talking with her, wake me up by touching my nose and eyes, tag my face while we were playing, and she even used to slap me if I was out of line. She never did that to anyone else, and she never used her claws.

LOL  My RB kitty Chynna used to do that to me.  Now Abby has started to as well. I find it especially true if I'm ignoring her when watching TV.  I'll frequently get a smack on the head or shoulder when she is on the back of the couch.  LOL

 

[asterix000]

maewkaew - your right about F5's not typically being that large, although I'm told her mother was ~17 inches tall (all legs of course). While my kitten is where you would expect a young kitten to be at around 11 weeks, her feet are comparatively huge (largest in her litter actually, one of the reasons I selected her). She may grow to be tall, she may not, but in the event she does I want to make sure shes not an intimidating cat. Thank you for the link, I appreciate you looking into the this for me. Truthfully I've come across many accounts of cats wanting to touch peoples faces, even on this forum, but it always seems to be during rest periods, like in bed. My cat does it then too, and that is hardly an issue. It's when she feels the need to get a running start on me that has me worried. 

I also agree with MServant, I don't think this behavior is at all aggression, never have, I'm just worried it could be perceived to be.

Telling people you have a hybrid cat, even one as far removed as an F5, I have recently learned, through a process not unlike Chinese whispers, translates to having a wild cat by the time anyone brings it up in conversation. So even though I feel this behavior is harmless and actually really cute, you just don't want to take that chance that a play session will turn into "your cat attacked me". The breed is uncommon for the area and most people don't understand what I'm saying when I talk about an F5, so when I proudly discuss my new kitten (like most proud pet owners do) I was sort of shocked by the reaction. I've received comments like "aren't you afraid its going to eat you"and "wild animals should not be kept as pets" so I'm a little bit on guard. 

As an antidote she has started a new behavior where she will climb her scratching post and meow. If I lean near her she will then climb onto my shoulder to be ferried about the house.. If I go somewhere she doesn't want to be, she will meow at me until I start moving again. When I move to an acceptable location (usually near a window)  she will hop off and go about her business contently. During our travels its not uncommon for her to pat me on the head with her paw lightly.... I suppose I'm guilty of doing the same to her (not the riding part, the head patting). It's an unusual behavior, I cant much explain it, but harmless and adorable considering she waits for me to invite her onto my shoulder by leaning down next to her. Conclusion from my observations: Cats can be weird.    

 

[cat person]

maewkaew - your right about F5's not typically being that large,

Yes, Maewkaew, is an exotic cat hybrid expert.

although I'm told her mother was ~17 inches tall (all legs of course).

Wow, just wow. That is huge!!! Most F2 females are not that large. Let alone an F4 female.

While my kitten is where you would expect a young kitten to be at around 11 weeks, her feet are comparatively huge (largest in her litter actually, one of the reasons I selected her).

So, I have to ask, maybe I asked earlier

  who bred her? Since the size of the mother and the large feet make me very curious.

She may grow to be tall, she may not,

It is VERY good, IMHO, that you are not fixated on the adult size of the cat. Since, a Savannah of any generation is unique regardless of size.

but in the event she does I want to make sure shes not an intimidating cat.

That is very very important when owning an exotic cat hybrid. Since, as you have learned, the "public" views exotic cat hybrids differently.

Thank you for the link, I appreciate you looking into the this for me.

If you want any other links, I will gladly share some. But, I suspect that link maybe enough.

Truthfully I've come across many accounts of cats wanting to touch peoples faces, even on this forum, but it always seems to be during rest periods, like in bed. My cat does it then too, and that is hardly an issue.

My pure Leptailurus serval and F1 Bengal did that. Not the F3 Savannah.

It's when she feels the need to get a running start on me that has me worried.

While, I completely agree, it is disconcerting at first. But, as long as, no nails are exposed it is nothing to worry about. It is just "typical" hybrid cat play.

I also agree with MServant, I don't think this behavior is at all aggression, never have, I'm just worried it could be perceived to be.

The way the world is (in the USA) you have reason to be worried IMHO. You just need to explain your cats behavior to your guests. If you for ANY REASON suspect a guest might not "react favorably" to your cats play, sadly, I would recommend seperationg your F5 Savannah from that guest.

Telling people you have a hybrid cat, even one as far removed as an F5, I have recently learned, through a process not unlike Chinese whispers, translates to having a wild cat by the time anyone brings it up in conversation.

Yes, sadly IMHO, that is a very common reaction. Over the years, I have just gotten "used to it".

So even though I feel this behavior is harmless and actually really cute, you just don't want to take that chance that a play session will turn into "your cat attacked me".

You are a MILLION percent correct. Since, the "your cat attacked me" can happen so quickly and has no "hard and fast rules" it is a rather worrisome "problem".

The breed is uncommon for the area and most people don't understand what I'm saying when I talk about an F5, so when I proudly discuss my new kitten (like most proud pet owners do) I was sort of shocked by the reaction.

You will eventually (for better or worse, that is up to you to decide) get used to that reaction.

I've received comments like "aren't you afraid its going to eat you"and "wild animals should not be kept as pets"

Those are very common reactions, when dealing with the general "public". I try an "educate" them, but you will find out, that it is often on "deaf ears".

so I'm a little bit on guard. 

Owning a pure exotic or exotic cat hybrid (F1-F5) it is wise, at least in my humble opinion, you should always be a little bit guarded.

As an antidote she has started a new behavior where she will climb her scratching post and meow. If I lean near her she will then climb onto my shoulder to be ferried about the house..

That is another very common exotic cat hybrid behavior. Hopefully, you enjoy that behavior

since it will most likely continue into adulthood. With one important difference, the cat can jump from the floor to your shoulder

.

If I go somewhere she doesn't want to be, she will meow at me until I start moving again.

Have you noticed any "pattern" to that behavior? Do you move once she starts meowing? If so, my (insert two cents face) is to move only when she is "calm". You know, as calm as an exotic cat hybrid cats (insert lol face). Since, you do not want the kitten to "rule you". So, it is important that you start now "showing what behaviors you consider acceptable".

When I move to an acceptable location (usually near a window)  she will hop off and go about her business contently.

While this behavior is "cute" while she is small. You do not want an adult cat "dictating" the "rules". So, move when you want to move, NOT when she wants you to move.

During our travels its not uncommon for her to pat me on the head with her paw lightly....

For whatever reason, pure exotics and exotic cat hybrids are very interested in human hair.

I suppose I'm guilty of doing the same to her (not the riding part, the head patting). It's an unusual behavior, I cant much explain it, but harmless and adorable considering she waits for me to invite her onto my shoulder by leaning down next to her.

That is all very normal with exotic cat hybrids. Just wait till you do your hair and she "loves it". She will be rolling and foaming at the mouth (another normal, yet disconcerting behavior for first time exotic cat or exotic hybrid cat care taker) on your head

Conclusion from my observations: Cats can be weird.    

Yes that sums it up

!!!!

<snipped>


 yes , and  it's  a bit confusing  what's going on with the SV kitten  ,  since she makes a dash at the head but with claws not extended,  so  it seems like it is maybe not exactly gentle exploration,  but it's a form of play not meant as aggression.

Yes, exotic cat hybrids, even the lower generation one, exhibit "aberrant behavior" when compared to a normal domestic kitten. The behaviors described above, IMHO, indicate a "properly socialized" exotic cat hybrid


  I think I will PM Cat Person to look at this since she has experience with hybrids.

Yes, exotic cat hybrids, even the lower generation one, exhibit "aberrant behavior" when compared to a normal domestic kitten. The behaviors described above, IMHO, indicate a "properly socialized" exotic cat hybrid <snipped>

<snipped>

<snipped>


 I just wanted to say something since a couple people who commented seemed to think that a Savannah must be going to get huge.      But this is an F5 Savannah,  and they are really about the size of an average domestic cat.  though they're leggy.

. Plus, I would like to add that my F3 was about 12 inches at the shoulder and about 30 inch torso. However, he only weighted 11lbs, Of course, he looked much larger.

    But these are not the really big SVs you may have seen;  those are the F1s, F2s and some F3s.  

Even a 50% F1 Male (males tend to be much larger, in the early generation cats) are normally under 20lbs. But, look much larger due to there physical frame (long legs and torso). Lastly, the females after the F1 generation are DRASTICALLY smaller in MANY cases, when compared to the males.

you might want to ask the breeder about the behavior,

As always, another good point

. <snipped>

It may be worth mentioning that I've had no luck correcting behavior by simply moving her from where she is not suppose to be..

That is very common with exotic cat hybrids. Even the later generation ones. I would recommend "redirecting" her behavior. That means, show her a toy or give her an "activity" instead. But, please continue to pick her up and "move her around". Since, it is very important that your exotic cat hybrid "gets used to" being physically restrained.

She actually seems to really enjoy me picking her up and placing her somewhere else,

That is VERY VERY good, IMHO. Many people, have to "teach" that behavior. So, I would be glad that your F5 Savannah "envoy's"being picked up.

I get a lot of purring

That is very very good IMHO.

and immediate repetition of the behavior, sometimes 12-20 times before she becomes interested in something else.

Again, that is very very normal for exotic cat hybrids. Even lower generation hybrids, have more "staying power/intensity" then the average domestic cat.

Guess she just loves to be up high. 

Yes she does, it is a very natural behavior. That is NOT something you can "train out" of them. You can just redirect the the behavior to an "acceptable" like a large (tall) cat tree.

Yes, it is very important I curve behavior before she grows up, even if she doesn't cause any scratches and it just turn out to be a quirk, knowing shes a hybrid could cause people to react harshly.

Like I said earlier or later (depending on how you look at this post

), I wish all exotic cat hybrid owners and pure exotics where so "aware" as you are

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm just no sure how to discourage this specifically.

I know, I am being ditsy again, but what do you want to discourage specifically? I would be VERY glad to help you. I just don't know how

.

If she does it after making eye contact, how can I show her that it isn't the right reaction

Exotic cat hybrids and pure exotics are naturally "excited" by eye contact. As long as, her nails are sheathed, I would not worry about. I would just warn guests or "keep her away" from guests that seem uncomfortable.

vs teaching her that eye contact means punishment is coming.

I am just saying this to make myself feel better. So, please keep that in mind. You never want to hit, smack, kick or "knee" (like you would with a jumping domestic dog) a exotic cat hybrid. Since, when they are sweet they are truly sweeter, IMHO, then a pure exotic cat or pure domestic cat. But, the "flip side" of that is a hand-shy down right human aggressive cat. Due to there high energy and if raised right, "lack of fear" commonly seen in pure domestic cats, a hybrid cat can be a true danger if punishment and pain is implemented in there daily care.

During play its easy enough to disengage, perhaps she'll get the idea through that.  

She might or might not. Exotic cat hybrids, tend to be very "thick headed". They are just tend to have a lot of" staying power" in there wants

!

I just been lucky so far with her temperament,

I am glad. Most well socilized F5's are just great cats!

the only other issue I've encounter is her love to be on counters

That tends to be very normal. One tall cat tree or piece of furniture in each room helped with my F3 Savannah.

and some minor issues finding the litter box when shes not already in the room adjacent to it.

Even later generation (F4-SBT) exotic cat hybrids, tend to prefer "playing" to eating or using the litter box

. Frequent "reminder" trips to the litter box and one litter box per room helps with that.

The counter trouble seems to be effectively controlled using tape,

Glad you found something that works

. Just be careful with the tape and other household objects. Since, exotic cat hybrids are prone to picca. Which unlike pure domestic cats, is NOT a symtom of an illness. It is just part of the exotic cat heritage. Picca tends to get better with age, but depening on the individual cat, never goes away as a genrilization!

and the litter box issue seems to be improving as she ages. 

That is very very true. How old is she? How old was she when you got her? Just make sure to clean up the "accidents" with an enzymatic cleaner.

<snipped>


 Firstly I think it's worth asking if anyone who has commented has a hybrid cat?

I completely agree with you

.

I do not but have read with interest a number of posts on hybrid cat behaviour and training since starting to use this site.

Cool  cool

. Are you considering getting an exotic cat hybrid? If so, what breed(s) and what generation(s)?

I suspect it is considerably more important for you to assert control

Just like with pure domestic cats, you can not control a exotic cat hybrid, at least in my experience. But, you can work with them and "teach them limits".

and clarify for you cat what acceptable behaviours are very early on

Yes, that is EXTREMELY important with exotic cat hybrids. Whether that be early generation (F1-F4) or later generation (F4-SBT) it is vitally important that you (the human) define the "acceptable" behavior from day one!

other wise there is a greater risk of injury for you (and others) as your Savannah grows -

While, I was NEVER injured by my F3 Savannah, at least not on purpose

it is true, that they are much stronger then the average pure domestic cat.

and this is probably going to be faster than with a domestic cat.

Yes, the exotic cat hybrids are MUCH faster then pure domestic cats. In general, exotic cat hybrids have a physical prowise that a pure domestic cat just can't touch.

 It seems that early bonding and training is quite different for them, and is really important.

. That is the BEST piece of information that anyone can "pass on" to exotic cat hybrid and pure exotic cat care takers!

Probably useful for you to search for this, and hopefully get some others with similar cats to advise you here.

. Hopefully, my experience will be some help to you. <snipped>

Yes, she is very curious, and will frequently paw at what have you. It's not uncommon for her to meow at something out of reach until I lift her to it so she can touch it with her nose or paw before being content to move on with her life.

That is very very common with exotic cat hybrids. Soon she will either "outgrow" that behavior or more likely then not, be able to "jump up" to her object of interest. Speaking of jumping, with exotic cat hybrids, even the latter generation ones, it is wise to do "cat proofing". Meaning, putting anything you view as "valuable". Even an F5 Savannah, might lack the pure domestic cats "grace and dexterity". My F3 was a "living disaster area". My African Serval wasn't nearly so bad, minus the spraying

.

She also has a mild obsession with reaching her paw under the crack under doors, even open doors, to paw at what I assume to be shadows. 

That tends to go away, as a general rule, when the cat is around a year old.

The behavior its self is actually quite enduring due to the gentle nature of the contact its self, sort of like a game of tag where she becomes determined to touch my head then is satisfied once she does.

I am not aware why Savannah's do that behavior. But, my F3 did the same thing and I too found it to be very endearing

.

I'm just worried it would be taken the wrong way with the running dash that it sometimes is lead by.

I do not blame you. But, I suspect, "nothing bad will come from that behavior". However, "keep your eye" on it, when you have guests over

I'm honestly not too worried about her actually hurting anyone given how she is when I play with her, I really am actually surprised she has not scratched me the way I too commonly dangle toys between us, or let her climb over me in pursuit of a toy-

Even later generation (F4-SBT) are much more "aware" of there body then purely domestic cats. I am not sure why,

I absolutely should be more careful.

Only cause, it does not start "other unwanted behaviors". As a general rule, exotic cat hybrids are "gentle". When properly handled and socialized.

I'm just worried she would give someone a fright, and being a hybrid cat, that could be reacted to a little more harshly then if she was a domestic short hair. 

If you lived in the united states, then yes you are right! I MUST commend you on your "awareness" of that VERY IMPORTANT, IMHO, view of the "general public" and how they view exotic cat hybrids.

Then again maybe sfbridges is right and my head just resembles a giant mouse and any week now I'll have to start a thread titled 'my cat ate my face'. 

Please do NOT become frightened of your cat. Exotic cat hybrids, even lower generation cats, just like domestic dogs, "feed off your energy". So, the worst thing you could do, IMHO, is to show her "fear". Since, she will likely "take advantage".

 I don't actually know

Of course, I really do not either, since, I have not seen the cat and all exotic cat hybrids are individuals. But, your F5 Savannah sounds VERY very sweet and harmless!

<snipped>


I would agree but it does not seem like she is trying to attack my head, not in the same way she would say attack a toy, or say my hand or toes should they move too much.. its more like a soft tag and then she backs away and watches me. If I were to anthropomorphize her, I would say she is just trying to prove she can tag me. 

. Just my

that are based on my personal experience, you want her to stop "attaching" your hands and feet while she is young. If you want any "suggestions" that have worked for me over the years just ask. I would be very very glad to help :-).


That being said, how would I discourage this behavior in a manner that wouldn't make the claws come out,

If she isn't bring out her claws with this type of play, while she is young, it is nothing something I would worry about. If she starts to do that, stopping the behavior would mainly depend on the scenario she was taking her claws out in.

or discourage play.

With a properly socialized exotic cat hybrid, of any generation, it is VERY hard to discourage play

.

<snipped>

I have a 11 week old Female F5 Savannah kitten.

Aww and congratulations

. I have a few questions

. Please note, I always have questions. Hopefully, you do not mind answering them.  Okay, my first question is this: how old was she when you acquired her? Most lower generation hybrids (F4-SBT) are  sold/"adopted" out at around 12 weeks. Do you mind sharing what breeder you got her from? Of course, I would just love to see photo's of her

.

She is very gentle

That is a testament to the breeders early socialization and your continued socialization (nodding face). Plus, as a general rule, exotic cat hybrids are very very gentle.

but has expressed some behavior that may be a concern.

Have you ever owned an exotic cat hybrid? If so, what breed and what generation? I have owned an F1 Bengal, F3 Savannah (who can be seen on this site) and a pure
Leptailurus serval. But, I will say each and EVERY cat was a "learning experience".

During play, or prolonged eye contact, my kitten will sometimes make a sudden dash for the head and attempt to touch her paw to my head or face.

While, I have never owned or worked with an F5 Savannah (I have worked with/foster "hard to handle F5 Bengals") my F3 Savannah did that exact behavior. Oddly enough, my pure Leptailurus serval did not! So, I am not sure where the behavior come from, but it is "fairly normal" IMHO,

Also in Savannah and Leptailurus serval "prolonged" eye contact (with the "owner" or people that are "familiar" from the cats perspective

does create excitement.

The claws are never extended, and she is gentle with contact, but being part serval (even distantly) I’m a little worried that guests may take this behavior as a form of aggression.

My F3 Savannah and pure Leptailurus serval NEVER had there claws out either. I would say, if you are worried about your guests reaction, I would just explain your cats behavior and recommend that they do not make direct eye contact. They could just play with her, with a feather toy or something along those lines. If you are worried, you could just keep her away from "certain guests".

Again, she has never so much as scratched me during play and always retracts her paws when playing around me,

Very very good, IMHO. She sounds like a GREAT cat!

I’m simply concerned how other people may interpret this

I do not blame you for being concerned. Given how the exotic animal laws are in the USA. Plus, God for bid something happens, you owning an F5 Savannah, you will ALWAYS have to "prove your case". Meaning, you have to "show" your F5 Savannah, is not a "dangerous wild animal".

and curious as to why.

I am sorry, but I really do not understand what you mean by that

. Would you mind paraphrasing? Yes, I know, I am wicked ditsy at times

. I do apologize.

Anyone see this before in a cat or have any explanation as to why she may be doing this?

My only explanation for the behavior is that this is "what/how" exotic cat hybrids and pure exotics act when "excited". Personally, I would not worry about it unless, you are worried about your friends having a "negative" reaction.

Thank you.

You are very very welcome. I hope that I was somewhat helpful and if you need any clarification just let me know

.

Please note, I have reread this post several times. I am sure there are still spelling and grammar errors. I apologize. I will glad change them, if you point them out

.

 

[asterix000]

Wow, Simply wow. Thank you for that insight. 

I got my kitten when she was 9 weeks old, the breeder who I rather not identify right now due to an issue their having with cities permits, is Canadian, as am I. 

Your right about the mother being exceptionally tall. I never really planned to have a cat bread for height, but have been fascinated about savannah's for about a year an a half. After I moved to a larger house I decided it was time. After contacting the breeder she suggested this litter to me. The stud was a Bengal, so pixel has a silver snow coat.

Here is a URL to pixel playing in a cat tree I made for her in the living room. The tree is about 5.5 feet tall. I constructed it after having her for 3 days and realized this need she had to be up high.  I sprayed the fabric leaves with sour apple bite deterrent as to protect them from pixels teeth of furry. She bats at it a lot but has yet to damage it. 

http://i40.tinypic.com/futh0h.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wg6vxl.jpg

I've seen her so far jump over 4 feet vertically, and almost 6 feet horizontally. The house has already been cat proofed out of an obvious necessity. Tape is generally avoided, so I'm not worried about her consuming it.. Although she is not at all particular about what she eats when it comes to food and eats, and drinks, much more then any of my coworkers cats. The breeder agreeded that she had an above average appetite but said I had no reason to be concerned and to let her eat her fill as a kitten.  

She is incredibly vocal and will meow at anything from not being able to see out a window, to announce her intention into fitting into an impressively small space. sometimes she will meow if she is not sure where I am, or if she wants me to find her, or if she just woke up and would like me to be informed of this fact. Meowing in its self is not actually a sign of excitement for her.  I'm not overly worried about her dictating where we go while on my shoulder, but I'll be cautious just the same. Another unexplained but wonderful behavior of hers is her absolute and complete silence after I go to bed. Not sure why she is so great about that, but it changes a potentially annoying behavior to an amusing quirk. '

At this point using a clicker I have managed to teach her to reliably meow and give paw at request, less reliably to stand on her hind legs and lay down. She seems to love the interaction of clicker training and will even initiate it by retrieving the clicker I keep on an end table.      

I don't think I need to worry too much with the kitten getting excited over any new haircut, mainly due to me being male and clean shaven bald (a detail that my girlfriend insisted today that was more critical to the discussion then I had considered. Her exact words were "you should have titled the post my cat likes to paw smooth shiny things")... Cest la vie. 

Anyways enough of my ranting. Thank you again for your sage advice Cat person and all others who were kind enough to discuss. 

 

[mservant]

As an antidote she has started a new behavior where she will climb her scratching post and meow. If I lean near her she will then climb onto my shoulder to be ferried about the house.. If I go somewhere she doesn't want to be, she will meow at me until I start moving again. When I move to an acceptable location (usually near a window)  she will hop off and go about her business contently. During our travels its not uncommon for her to pat me on the head with her paw lightly.... I suppose I'm guilty of doing the same to her (not the riding part, the head patting). It's an unusual behavior, I cant much explain it, but harmless and adorable considering she waits for me to invite her onto my shoulder by leaning down next to her. Conclusion from my observations: Cats can be weird.    

I am so sad you have had such negative responses when you talked to people about your lovely new furbaby. It is also sad but true that these days you have to be concerned about protecting yourself and your cat from what others might accuse you of.

On a lighter note, when I read the above I laughed so hard I nearly cried  Mouse will jump on t my shoulder like a ladder top what he wants or hitches a ride but NEVER patted my head. Love it  love it love it.... I will have an image of this for years to come  

 

Oh, and from your photo links, she's a very cute spotty furbaby - looking forward to seeing how she grows.

 

[catspaw66]

Julie and Silly both like to pat my face when they are snuggled up against me.  They have both been doing this for several years. Never any claws, just softie paws.

 

[cat person]

Wow, Simply wow.

Yes, I know, I wrote a book. My posts are normally long, but this one surprised me

.

Thank you for that insight. 

I was saying to maewkaew (in PM), since you are such a knowledgeable exotic cat hybrid owner, you might not like my post. Since, as far as I am concerned, I just wrote what you said and just "reassured you" that you initial intuitions where/are correct.

I got my kitten when she was 9 weeks old,

In general, F1's and some F2's are "sold/re-homed" around 9 weeks. But, as a general rule, F3-F5/SBT are re-homed/sold around 12 weeks. Getting her at 9 weeks was just fine in this case. I wanted to just point that "rule out" in case you get another Savannah or exotic cat hybrid.

the breeder who I rather not identify right now due to an issue their having with cities permits,

As per usual, I am confused

. Did the breeder sell you the cat from the USA, hence you need import permits? Or in Canada, do you need important permits between the Providences/38 territories?.

is Canadian, as am I. 

You are very lucky to live in Canada/be Canadian and own an exotic cat hybrid. Since, to the best of my knowledge, the "general public" is more understanding of exotic pet ownership. But, more importantly, IMHO, the laws in most territories/Providences are NOT as "crazy STRICT" like many states in the USA.

Your right about the mother being exceptionally tall.

Yea, she sounds like a HUGE F4. Is she a "normal" F4? Meaning, does she have the theoretical twig value of 6% African serval? Or, is she a "higher percentage female"? I am just curious cause the female sounds HUGE.

I never really planned to have a cat bread for height,
That is very very good IMHO.
but have been fascinated about savannah's for about a year an a half.

That is very very good IMHO.

After I moved to a larger house I decided it was time.

I know waiting is the hardest part, but for you and your new F5 Savannah!

After contacting the breeder she suggested this litter to me.

Cool cool

.

The stud was a Bengal, so pixel has a silver snow coat.

I am guess the Bengal was an F5/SBT. In those picture's I am not seeing the silver snow coat. I am seeing the "normal/acceptable" SBT coat. But, that is just me,

Here is a URL to pixel playing in a cat tree I made for her in the living room. The tree is about 5.5 feet tall. I constructed it after having her for 3 days and realized this need she had to be up high.  

Yes, as a general rule, exotic cat hybrids even the lower generation ones, LOVE to be up high,

I sprayed the fabric leaves with sour apple bite deterrent as to protect them from pixels teeth of furry. She bats at it a lot but has yet to damage it. 

Is that like Bitter Apple, which can be seen here: http://www.bitterapple.com/?

http://i40.tinypic.com/futh0h.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wg6vxl.jpg

She is just adorable. She is very very attractive/well bred for an F5. In the second photo, you can see the Ocelli or "false eye spots". That is normally only seen in the F1 and F2 generations.

I've seen her so far jump over 4 feet vertically,

I am only surprised cause she is an F5 and so young. Are you SURE she is an F5 (insert lol face). Sounds and looks more like an F3 at "bare minimum". You know, her vertical prowess will only "improve" with age, Yes, I know, something to look "forward" too

.

and almost 6 feet horizontally.

Wow

!

The house has already been cat proofed out of an obvious necessity.

Glad to hear that

. Just be aware that, MIGHT need to stay like that permanently.

Tape is generally avoided, so I'm not worried about her consuming it..

Good good

. Just be careful because my F3 Savannah had a wand toy that he loved since he was a kitten. Well one day, after two and half years he ate 9, yes 9 inches of the toy. He vomited it up that night thank God. But, what that illustrates is that exotic cat hybrids have pica "issues" and one never knows "when they will surface".

Although she is not at all particular about what she eats when it comes to food and eats,

What type of food do you feed her? Does she seem to be "food aggressive"? My F3 despite being the SWEETEST cat, was very food agressive with canned food. So I fed him a combination of whole live prey (I can show you the list from another thread) that I bred myself and Evo dry food.

Of course, he would try to eat paper, plastic, and or fabric if given the chance. So, I completely understand what you mean by not particular about eating!

and drinks, much more then any of my coworkers cats.

Yes, that is very very common with exotic cat hybrids. While the pure domestic cats don't have a "drinking water response" the hybrids do. My F3 Savannah "drank water like a dog". But, that might have been cause he ran around like a "boarder collie"

.

The breeder agreeded that she had an above average appetite but said I had no reason to be concerned and to let her eat her fill as a kitten.  

Exotic cat hybrids, grow VERY very quickly the first two months. It is VERY important that she be allowed to eat as much as she wants. As long as, she does not eat to the point of vomiting. Even if, that was the case, just allow her to eat as much as she wants in a 24 hour period. Just portion it out.

She is incredibly vocal

F1's and F2's make the noises more like a pure African Serval. Meaning, they "take on" the various hisses that are seen in the pure exotic. Some F3's are that way too. I suspect your F5 makes noises similar to a purely domestic cat. Another very cute noise, that the Savannah gets from the  Leptailurus serval is they will "chirp".

and will meow at anything from not being able to see out a window,

 

, typical Savannah!

to announce her intention into fitting into an impressively small space.

My F3 could fit into some amazingly small spaces as well, even as an adult.

sometimes she will meow if she is not sure where I am, or if she wants me to find her,

That behavior will never go away most likely. Even lower generation hybrids, like to be with "there people".

or if she just woke up and would like me to be informed of this fact.

More likely then not, that particular vocalization pattern will disparate with age.

Meowing in its self is not actually a sign of excitement for her.

More likely then not, that particular vocalization pattern will disparate with age.

I'm not overly worried about her dictating where we go while on my shoulder, but I'll be cautious just the same.

I didn't make myself clear

, but what else is new with ditsy old me

. What I was trying to say is that you just do not want her dictating ANY part of your "relationship" with her. Hopefully, I was clearer this time

, if not I will rephrase.

Another unexplained but wonderful behavior of hers is her absolute and complete silence after I go to bed.

I would not look a "gift horse" in the mouth on that one.

Not sure why she is so great about that,

Neither am I

.

but it changes a potentially annoying behavior to an amusing quirk.

Indeed

. I would just enjoy that quirt

!

At this point using a clicker I have managed to teach her to reliably meow and give paw at request,

I was going to suggest clicker training, but never mind

. What you have taught her so far is GREAT!

less reliably to stand on her hind legs and lay down.
Again, great job

. I would recommend you continue with the down and paw. Plus, you teach sit and roll over. Then, once you have her reliably trained, you teach her to "hold" those specific behaviors. The reason for this is: 1) if she is ever injured she will "react" (in a positive way hopefully) and "comply".  2)  It will help you bond with her. 3) teaching her to hold those behaviors will make it easier for you and your vet to "work" with her physically.
She seems to love the interaction of clicker training and will even initiate it by retrieving the clicker I keep on an end table.

 That is just awesome, IMHO. What type of "reward" do you give her? Meaning, do you use mainly food, toys, or attention/praise? My African Serval would do the "basic compliance" commands for a treat. My F1 Bengal would do the same commands for attention. My F3 Savannah would do them a toy or "wrestling" time.

I don't think I need to worry too much with the kitten getting excited over any new haircut,

I was actually thinking more from hair products/shampoo smells

.

mainly due to me being male and clean shaven bald (a detail that my girlfriend insisted today that was more critical to the discussion then I had considered.

I am not sure if gender has anything to do with it

but yes, being bald does

. Just tell your girlfriend what I said about hair products/shampoo's

.

Her exact words were "you should have titled the post my cat likes to paw smooth shiny things")... Cest la vie. 

My F1 Bengal loved licking bald people's heads. That is all I know about exotic cat hybrids and bald heads

.

Anyways enough of my ranting.

I very much enjoyed your "ranting". So, no worries

.

Thank you again for your sage advice Cat person

You are very welcome. I am glad that I was able to help. The only thing I ask, is you continue to post photo's and stories about your adorable F5 Savannah.

that will make me so so so so so so so HAPPY!

and all others who were kind enough to discuss. 

Yes, as always, great work!

 

[asterix000]

Thanks again Cat Person!

I don't consider myself a knowledgeable exotic cat owner at all, but I did my homework before considering one. I have a Bsc in biology, focused in micro but I did a lot of animal behavioral classes as well (worked mostly with birds and fish) so I tend to talk a little empirically - that is habit, not knowledge. I welcome all advice.

She was suppose to come at 8 weeks but it happened to be too hot for kittens to fly that weekend, We agreed to wait a week so I could be there all weekend while she settled. 

The permit issue has nothing to do with my cat, but rather her Servals. I just don't want to draw attention to her while she is dealing with that right now. Once shes sorted I'd love to promote her, just feel there is enough on her plate right now.

I don't have much info on the mother, only an E-mail description, but on re examining the statement said from floor to ear tip, still, a freaking huge cat even if the description is misleading. 

Yes the spray was bitter apple as you linked, My mistake. She will still bite it.. She just makes a face and gives up after 5-10 tries. She is determined. 

Yes, she has very well defined Ocelli markings, I know what a desirable attribute that is but never knew she had such markings until she arrived. 

I'd love confirm she is a F5 but I've yet to receive pedigree details. My breeder is supportive but like I said there is a lot going on right now, so for this I'm waiting. That said I definitely paid an F5 price.

I feed her a raw chicken/fish mix (mostly chicken) that my breeder recommended once per day (while I'm home to clean up after her), she has a bowl of Nutrience Grain free (ocean fish and salmon) available to her all day https://www.petcetera.ca/The-Pet-Ou...trience/Grain-Free/Ocean-Fish-Salmon-2kg.aspx  (I couldn't find a link to the Nutrience web sight). This grain free mix is new on the market, the brand manager was kind enough to send me a supply of it when Pixel arrived, I assume there is some sponsorship with the cattery. The raw is easy because I have a friend who raises free range chickens, so organs and rooster meet come free, fresh, and I know the birds are in good shape. However, my vet actually does not endorse feeding raw because of salmonella. I work in the food industry and do have a strong background in micro so I feel confident that I have adequate sanitation practices in place to feed my cat, but I do understand why a vet would be cautious about this. I would be interested in what recipe you use. 

I don't think she is food aggressive, she allows me to remove the dish while she is eatting, although I have no idea how she is with other cats. If i were to guess, I'd describe her as food competitive .  

When we work with the clicker I reward her with treats (dried chicken), praise, or play. I try and mix it up. I uploaded a youtube video of Pixel performing, feel free to have a look, I don't use the clicker here because I have to hold the camera, 1st time performing without it and she did well, but I don't want to lose the strength of the click association with reward. We foist "stand" a little, but let that slip because we only been working on it for 2 days. Her strongest reaction is to 'speak' because we been working the longest on it (2 weeks), and as I said she is VERY vocal. =) I actually hope she doesn't get quiet, in spite of the harshness of the meow I've really become use to it. She made a chirp sound once while I was cooking a chicken but I never heard a repeat of that behavior again. I was very excited, I was aware of the chirp noise and hoped she would exhibit it, but Pixel just prefers to let out her little screeches. She has at least 3 different distinctive tones that I've observed, contrary to everything I read about kittens being monotone. I'll upload a video of her screaming for chicken later, I didn't catch the chirp but she made lots of noise afterwards...  That one always gets a reaction.

   (at 1:05 she actually pats me on the head)

MServant - thanks for your concern. It is a bit disheartening at 1st when you try to tell someone how excited you are and they try to explain back how its going to eat you in your sleep... oh well, some of the reactions are a little entertaining. I'm really glad you got a laugh out of the head patting, I did too 1st time she did it. 

 

[asterix000]

 <- begging for chicken

 

[mservant]

Fantastic to see and hear her! There's certainly no doubt when Pixel wants fed! 

  I am so envious you managed to do 'the paw' - I tried with Mouse but he wasn't interested at all. 

 

[jcat]

Great videos!

 

[cat person]

 <- begging for chicken

That was so so so so so cute it made my

"melt"!

Thanks again Cat Person!

You are very very welcome. I really enjoy talking about exoitc cat hybrids and pure exotics so you are really making me happy!

I don't consider myself a knowledgeable exotic cat owner at all,

Well I do

!

but I did my homework before considering one.

I am very glad you did. I wish more people did. Only because it would make a lot of people/owners happy and a lot more exotic cat hybrids. So, I must commend you on your research!

I have a Bsc in biology, focused in micro but I did a lot of animal behavioral classes as well (worked mostly with birds and fish)

You learned a real lot from your Bsc and and animal behavior classes. At least, as far as I am concerned! I have a bachelor of science (B.S.) in herpetology and a Master in genetics. If you want more info just PM me.

so I tend to talk a little empirically

You have NO idea, how much I appreciate that. Plus, how much easier it is for me to communicate with you.

- that is habit,

I very much like "your habit".

not knowledge.

I think you need to give yourself more credit. I think you have a great deal of knowledge.

I welcome all advice.

 Me too

. I am NO expert. There are plenty of people that know more about pure exotic cats and there hybrids.

She was suppose to come at 8 weeks but it happened to be too hot for kittens to fly that weekend, We agreed to wait a week so I could be there all weekend while she settled. 

Got ya

.

The permit issue has nothing to do with my cat, but rather her Servals.

O okay, I got you now. Did I mention I can be wicked ditsy

? If not, I have now. Just hang around this site and you will see PLENTY more of it

!!!

I just don't want to draw attention to her while she is dealing with that right now.

I do not blame you

.

Once shes sorted I'd love to promote her,

Jugging from your kitten, in both physical appearance and sociability/socialization I sure do not blame you

.
 

just feel there is enough on her plate right now.

Yes, I am sure she has enough on her plate. Whenever dealing with exotics or hybrids and the government it is "exhausting"!

I don't have much info on the mother, only an E-mail description, but on re examining the statement said from floor to ear tip, still, a freaking huge cat even if the description is misleading. 

That is still very large for an F4 female. But, not as large as I had "envisioned". I am sure, the breeder did NOT mean to sound misleading. Unless, you have a "feeling" that they where trying to "mislead" you.

Yes the spray was bitter apple as you linked,

Okay, I only asked since you are living in Canada and I have learned all the products are NOT the same as in the states. Hence, I decided ask. Hope you understand and are NOT upset.

My mistake.

Please please please do not be upset. I was just asking, since I am ALWAYS trying to learn.

She will still bite it.. She just makes a face and gives up after 5-10 tries.


Well, at least, she eventually gives up. The best part, she doesn't eat anything!

She is determined. 

 Yes, pure exotic cats and there hybrids are VERY determined

.

Yes, she has very well defined Ocelli markings,

That is on par with some F2's and better then many F3's including mine (when he was alive).

I know what a desirable attribute that is but never knew she had such markings until she arrived. 

That must have been a VERY pleasant surprise

!

I'd love confirm she is a F5 but I've yet to receive pedigree details.

I am SURE she is an F5. But, she is "proof", at least as far as I am concerned, that a "well bred" F5 can still look "exotic".

My breeder is supportive

That is VERY important IMHO!

but like I said there is a lot going on right now, so for this I'm waiting.

I am SURE, she will send them once her life "calms down" some.

That said I definitely paid an F5 price.

Well, unless she is a VERY nice women or a personal friend, it is very unlikely she would let you pay for a an F5 and send you a "standard" F3

. Sorry, I hope you do not mind my teasing. I am SURE she is an F5, just a very attractive one!

I feed her a raw chicken/fish mix (mostly chicken) that my breeder recommended once per day (while I'm home to clean up after her),

fed my exotic cat hybrids (F1 Bengal and F3 Savannah) and pure Leptailurus serval whole live prey mainly.

she has a bowl of Nutrience Grain free (ocean fish and salmon) available to her all day https://www.petcetera.ca/The-Pet-Ou...trience/Grain-Free/Ocean-Fish-Salmon-2kg.aspx  (I couldn't find a link to the Nutrience web sight).

I fed my F3 Savannah "snacked on" Evo- the turkey and chicken formula seen here: http://www.evopet.com/products/1441. The F1 Bengal could not handle ANY commercially available foods on a daily basis. The pure Leptailurus serval would "snack on" Wysongs Epigen 90 that can be seen here: http://www.wysong.net/products/epigen.php.

I can't find the ingredients for that food. But, as long as it "agrees" with her and it isn't a large part of her diet it should be fine.

This grain free mix is new on the market,

Ahh I see

. Maybe that is why I can't find the ingredients

?

the brand manager was kind enough to send me a supply of it when Pixel arrived,

That was very nice of them

.

I assume there is some sponsorship with the cattery.

I would tend to agree

. If you are REALLY curious, I am sure you could ask the cattery you got your F5 Savannah from.

The raw is easy because I have a friend who raises free range chickens, so organs and rooster meet come free, fresh, and I know the birds are in good shape.

Wow, you are very very lucky. I breed my own prey items (I still have some pure
Felis silvestris catus).

However, my vet actually does not endorse feeding raw because of salmonella.

That isn't very surprising, at least having dealt with/dealing with USA vets. They say the same thing.

I work in the food industry and do have a strong background in micro so I feel confident that I have adequate sanitation practices in place to feed my cat,

I am sure you do. Not only that, some types of Salmonella (I am sure you know which ones, and would LOVE you to share that with me) naturally live in some cats digestive tracts!

but I do understand why a vet would be cautious about this.

Yes I do too

.

I would be interested in what recipe you use. 

 As I stated above, I breed my own prey items and feed them live. If you want to see a complete list of species I have fed please see this post: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/259215/the-great-protein-list. Then, please, scroll down to post number twenty three. That is my full "recipe".

I don't think she is food aggressive, she allows me to remove the dish while she is eatting,

Trust me on this one then, she ISN'T food aggressive.

although I have no idea how she is with other cats. If i were to guess, I'd describe her as food competitive .  

, that is VERY normal for any kitten. Let alone an exotic cat hybrid kitten.

When we work with the clicker I reward her with treats (dried chicken), praise, or play. I try and mix it up.

You sound like you have a GREAT system going on. Plus, you are lucky your F5 will "work for" such a "mixed bag".

I uploaded a youtube video of Pixel performing, feel free to have a look,

Well, that made my day! Thank you SO MUCH for sharing.

I don't use the clicker here because I have to hold the camera, 1st time performing without it and she did well,

I agree and would say she did GREAT!

but I don't want to lose the strength of the click association with reward.

Very true and VERY good point!

We foist "stand" a little, but let that slip because we only been working on it for 2 days.

I think she did GREAT for only "learning" that two days ago

.

Her strongest reaction is to 'speak' because we been working the longest on it (2 weeks), and as I said she is VERY vocal. =)

Yes, it is MUCH simpler, to teach a cat a behavior it "exhibits" naturally (insert nodding head).

I actually hope she doesn't get quiet, in spite of the harshness of the meow I've really become use to it.

You are a GREAT hybrid exotic cat owner. You have turned a "negative" into a "positive". Or, you just love your F5 Savannah so much, that you think everything she does is great"

.

 She made a chirp sound once while I was cooking a chicken but I never heard a repeat of that behavior again.

You MIGHT with time. But, being an F5, I would assume (see the word in assume

) that she would make noises more in line with a purely domestic cat.

I was very excited, I was aware of the chirp noise and hoped she would exhibit it,

While it is cute, it confuses people way more then it is worth. Especially when it comes out of a forty pound Leptailurus serval. Or, it even confused people when it came from my F3 Savannah that people thought was a forty pound cat

.

but Pixel just prefers to let out her little screeches.

Well, I personally think that is adorable

.

She has at least 3 different distinctive tones that I've observed, contrary to everything I read about kittens being monotone.

That MAYBE true, only in pure Felis silvestris catus. But, I am not even sure about that to be completely honest.

   (at 1:05 she actually pats me on the head)

1) The video was adorable.
2) That is "normal" behavior for any generation exotic cat hybrid
MServant - thanks for your concern. It is a bit disheartening at 1st when you try to tell someone how excited

It is disheartening indeed. It is just something I have "gotten used to" over the years. I still try and "educate people", I am NOT sure why

.

you are and they try to explain back how its going to eat you in your sleep...

I have learned to "laugh" at that response. Hopefully, you do not let that response "get you down". Since, I am sure you know that isn't true. Or, physically possible even with a pure Leptailurus serval and a LIVE human!

oh well, some of the reactions are a little entertaining. I'm really glad you got a laugh out of the head patting, I did too 1st time she did it. 

Your F5 Savannah is addorable

!

Please note, I have gone over this post repeatedly for spelling and grammer errors. I can't find any. But, I am sure they are there

. So, if you find any, please let me know and I will try and get them fixed.

 

[callista]

Pixel reminds me of a cat I used to know, a little orange DSH named Skimble. Smart, into everything, just all about figuring things out. My friend's cat. Adorable little guy.

My cats are learning some simple tricks too, just as something entertaining. How did you teach Pixel to "Speak"? I can get them to understand what I want when I ask them to do something physically, but meowing on command is a bit tricky.

 

[asterix000]

Fantastic to see and hear her! There's certainly no doubt when Pixel wants fed! 

  I am so envious you managed to do 'the paw' - I tried with Mouse but he wasn't interested at all. 

Try putting the treat on your forearm and use a click when they put a paw on your hand to climb up to reach it, gradually increase the incline of your arm so you have to hold the treat with your spare hand, that forces the cat to be more mindful of where its paw goes. Pixel hops around a lot when she sees a treat so its fairly easy to wait for almost any behaviour to occur on its own, you just have to click at the right moment.