Too much wrestling

[smbsocal]

We were lucky enough to have two wonderful cats, that were obtained at the same time, over the past 14 years. Unfortunately one passed away due to cancer last year and the one remaining was visibly lonely when we were away at work.

As what usually follows we got a 5 month old orange tabby 'kitten' from an animal rescue and he has been a great cat for his human parents but he has been a nightmare for our existing cat. We did the normal introduction period and they do not fight but he is always wanting to pounce on older cat and energetically wrestle with her all of the time. He is only 5 months old but he is already equal to her weight, 9 lbs, and has made her life at home a tense place.

We have read a lot of articles and they all mention is it a good idea to get two kittens at a time so they can play with each other. So we wound up getting a 4 month old kitten, 6 lbs, after a month of waiting for him to calm down.

Now on the plus side the orange tabby doesn't bother the old cat since he has a new target but when he isn't tired he is stalking, pouncing and energetically wrestling with the other kitten. When she is in the mood it isn't a problem but if he isn't sleeping he wants to be wrestling all the time.

The end result is that we wound up with the orange tabby and two cats that are nervous and hiding from the tabby trying to get away from him.

We have tried to play with him and used to play with wands and an assortment of attachments with him for 2 - 4 hours a night but after the first two weeks he grew bored of this and only is interested in wrestling.

The wrestling is not mean in nature he is only trying to play but it is breaking our hearts watching him torment the other cats just a much as is the idea of re-homing him to someone who doesn't have a cat at their house.

Is there any help or advice anyone can offer? I saw a couple of similar situations in posts here but the original poster never follows up one what the resolution was.

 

[ArtNJ]

Well, Jackson Galaxy would tell you to spend thousands of dollars building elevated spaces to help the cats feel safe. And elevated spaces 100% do help. But unless your a professional carpenter or made of money, the more realistic options, say a really tall cat tree or two, are unlikely to fix the issue.

The only solution is waiting. The relationship with the younger kitten will likely stabilize. Unfortunately, its unlikely he will stop bugging the older cat, and that relationship may or may not improve much. Senior cats often have trouble with kittens, especially active kittens that want to play play play and won't take no for an answer, and this sounds like an extreme example. Its always better to avoid adding a kitten when you have a senior cat, but sometimes you get lucky, and even when you get this kind of thing, usually it does improve towards toleration over weeks to months.

I had an older cat and two kittens years ago, one chill, one hyper. Older cat always like chill kitten some, and always disliked the hyper cat. Things went to total hell when the hyper kitten reached one year, but I think thats very rare. More likely you are just looking at continued stress that may slowly improve towards toleration when not actively being bugged.

 

[misty8723]

I personally wouldn't have gotten a kitten with an older cat. Maybe get a second kitten to play with the kitten and they can leave the older cat alone. You have to look at it from the cat's perspective.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I think I might be a bit lost here. The older cat was not happy with a new addition, so you ended up getting a 3rd cat who is now 'terrorizing' the other two????
A lot more information might be quite helpful. To start with please give us their names, their ages, and the sequence of events, including timelines as well as introduction steps along the way.

 

[smbsocal]

Hi. I think I might be a bit lost here. The older cat was not happy with a new addition, so you ended up getting a 3rd cat who is now 'terrorizing' the other two????
A lot more information might be quite helpful. To start with please give us their names, their ages, and the sequence of events, including timelines as well as introduction steps along the way.

Had older cat and got a second cat (kitten) that likes to wrestle. Got the third cat as a playmate of the second to relieve the older cat from having to play.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Had older cat and got a second cat (kitten) that likes to wrestle. Got the third cat as a playmate of the second to relieve the older cat from having to play.

Thanks, but that didn't help much. So, the 3rd cat is also being terrorized by that second cat?? What is obvious to you is not obvious to me, apparently. Sorry.

 

[Robyn5678]

I have 3 cats under the age of one and pretty much any time they are awake they are wrestling with each other.

 

[Cat McCannon]

Well, Jackson Galaxy would tell you to spend thousands of dollars building elevated spaces to help the cats feel safe. And elevated spaces 100% do help. But unless your a professional carpenter or made of money, the more realistic options, say a really tall cat tree or two, are unlikely to fix the issue.

The only solution is waiting. The relationship with the younger kitten will likely stabilize. Unfortunately, its unlikely he will stop bugging the older cat, and that relationship may or may not improve much. Senior cats often have trouble with kittens, especially active kittens that want to play play play and won't take no for an answer, and this sounds like an extreme example. Its always better to avoid adding a kitten when you have a senior cat, but sometimes you get lucky, and even when you get this kind of thing, usually it does improve towards toleration over weeks to months.

I had an older cat and two kittens years ago, one chill, one hyper. Older cat always like chill kitten some, and always disliked the hyper cat. Things went to total hell when the hyper kitten reached one year, but I think thats very rare. More likely you are just looking at continued stress that may slowly improve towards toleration when not actively being bugged.

With all due respect, this is an incorrect and incomplete assessment. Jackson does NOT advocate spending thousands of dollars building elevated spaces. Creating elevated space for a cat does not require “thousands of dollars” nor does it require a skilled carpenter to do. However, it does require some imagination, a little work and an investment of a bit of time. I created more vertical spaces for Belle by placing a plank I stapled some old carpeting to and leaning it against a tall cabinet.

It’s a ridiculous notion that a tall cat tree would be of no use. A strategically placed cat tree can make all the difference in the world. All it takes is a little investigation and imagination.

To think all a cat guardian can do in this case is wait for a kitten to grow up and settle down is irresponsible. There’s always something that can be tried, such as using a favorite cat toy to distract a cat from playing too tough or too often with the other cats, creating avenues of escape, eliminating ambush and “checkmate” zones. Finding ways to help the victim cats to regain confidence so they don’t act like prey and so on. It’s a matter of getting to the root of the problem and figuring out how to make things better. It can take time and effort, but it’ll pay in dividends in the end.

Doing nothing will only encourage the bullying.

 

[ArtNJ]

With all due respect

It absolutely never is, when one starts like that. I said it my post that elevated spaces do help with cat confidence, but I think you are seriously over-optimistic about the impact. (And have you even watched more than a few episodes of Jackson Galaxy? The things built are ELABORATE. He even uses the term "cat superhighways." They have even showed the carpenter brought in.)

A hyper kitten and a 14 year old is a hard, often intractable issue. Pretending it can be fixed by anything other than time does folks a real disservice. I mean, the course is always variable. One never knows. But general, its a very hard thing. If you had some success with a couple of cat trees and a shelf, thats great, but many many have not.

This isn't the place for a debate, however. Signing off to this thread.

 

[danteshuman]

If they were my cats? I would try giving the calmer 2 cats 12 hours a day, every day away from the trouble maker. If #3 starts harassing kitty #1 then just give senior kitty 1/2 a day of peace & quiet every day. Don’t let the trouble maker in until he has a vigorous play session. Jackson Galaxy has a YouTube video on how to play with your cat.

Do clicker training and food and more plsy when the cats are together. Help them bond.

I would also be looking to create as much vertical space as possible and avoid dead ends. If necessary reintroduce the cats to the hyper bully. (Dante was a hyper insecure bully. He tormented my mom’s senior kitty so badly that she wound up having a litter box on the counter! (Divorce had to move in for a few years.) If I had to do it over again, I would do all I said & have him put on prozac!)

Lastly the thing I had to learn the hard way: you have to tire their minds to tire their bodies! In Dante and my hyper kitty Jackie’s case it means outside time. Jackie gets 2 hours a day on his long leash, plus a short walk, then he is a well behaved kitty. When I’m sick or it is raining; he turns into a naughty terror! I have special toys just for those occasions! Puzzle feeders and a couple bird feeders help (even if you keep him inside he can birdwatch through a secure screen.) I give my cat a different toy/jungle gym/cardboard house and scratcher every month. For rainy days I have: hexabugs, floppy fish, 2 balls that roll around on their own, catnip bubbles, puzzle feeder & special toys marinating in catnip. Those hexabug mice are worth their weight in gold!

I would clicker train your calmest cat 1 on 1, then add in your hyper boy. However my hyper cat is clicker trained and it helps keep him sharp. I’m hoping it will help your cats bond.

So my kitty Jackie has 2 littermates that live with my mom. His brother & him always want to play fight. Their sister wants to play more tag or hide & seek. When one of the boys gets bored (if the other is not around) the boy will hunt Cami & try to force her to play. Of course we try to break it up before the pounce. A half hour separation to allow everyone to reset (&/0r some super fun toy/play session) usually works. My boy visits on the weekend so the 2 boys can get their wrestle mania fix.

 

[Meowmee]

We went through this with Sybil and Quinn, unfortunately at the end I had to keep them separate because she had a heart condition etc. He was a little monster, and would not stop jumping on her and she was never a cat who liked to wrestle although she was very active as a forest cat. He is a pb siamese and was super high energy and very dominant, I have never seen anything like it. In the past she had gotten along well with some kitten fosters.

We tried everything, I played with him non stop, pheromones, various meds and a thunder coat, the thunder coat did calm him a bit but did not get rid of the behavior. I think if he had had my Byron who was quietly dominant but a real alpha cat there to discipline him it would have been a different story.

I also think if he had taken gabapentin for a while that would significantly have helped the situation but no one was recommending that at the time and I didn’t know about it. I’ve use that for two cats have come inside now who were aggressive/ scared and it has worked. Fred is still on it, he may need to be on it longer than Zena because he’s more scared but I think in time he will be able to get off of it just as Zena did.

For Quinn we tried Prozac, a diazepam type drug and another I can’t remember the name of now and none of them really helped at all- I think Prozac made him worse. We used all generics.

I would try some meds and the thunder coat as well as a tree, and give the girls a lot of time away from him. A male kitten who likes to wrestle might have been a better match but there is no crystal ball for this.

Hopefully over time he will calm a bit. I know you probably would never do this but you could get a boy cat who likes to wrestle and then they will wrestle with each other and leave the girls alone. The problem is you never know what will happen for sure.

People also encouraged me to get another kitten which upon thinking about it had I gotten 2 siamese kittens at the start they probably would’ve just played with each other and left Sybil alone mostly. However I was worried that I could end up with a situation like yours or that both of the kittens would bother Sybil.

After Sybil passed I took Merlin in from outside after he bit me. He loves to wrestle and he was a good match for Quinn. Then I took in Zena in December and he likes to wrestle even more- so it’s mostly them wrestling now, they are getting lotsa likes on Instagram so I may make their own account for them lol.

 

[danteshuman]

This is what helped calm my hyper terror down! Dante was pretty well behaved if he got his afternoon outside time. I would love to say he learned to quit bullying the declawed senior kitty; but he didn’t. We just stopped letting him get within 5 feet of her.

 

[Cat McCannon]

It absolutely never is, when one starts like that. I said it my post that elevated spaces do help with cat confidence, but I think you are seriously over-optimistic about the impact. (And have you even watched more than a few episodes of Jackson Galaxy? The things built are ELABORATE. He even uses the term "cat superhighways." They have even showed the carpenter brought in.)

A hyper kitten and a 14 year old is a hard, often intractable issue. Pretending it can be fixed by anything other than time does folks a real disservice. I mean, the course is always variable. One never knows. But general, its a very hard thing. If you had some success with a couple of cat trees and a shelf, thats great, but many many have not.

This isn't the place for a debate, however. Signing off to this thread.

When I say “With all due respect” That’s exactly what it means. It means what I’m about to say will be blunt but no disrespect is meant.

I have seen every episode of “My Cat From Hell” and have watched many of JGs videos online and have been following his Caturday series. (Yes, I’m a bit of a fan boy.) He doesn’t advocate spending money for catification. In fact, he encourages using what you have on hand. Yes, he’s had clients spend money. But they had the means to do so.

My point about cat trees is that they are effective when guardians take the time and use their imagination to figure out where to place them to improve the home. I agree with you that solutions takes time and effort.

Yes, it’s tough when a kitten and an oldster are starting the same living space. But just waiting it out isn’t the best answer. It’s much better to find solutions to improve things. Small steps are better than simply letting a kitten torture the other cats for the next year and a half to two years while waiting for it to “grow out of it”.

 

[smbsocal]

Thanks, but that didn't help much. So, the 3rd cat is also being terrorized by that second cat?? What is obvious to you is not obvious to me, apparently. Sorry.

Not a problem, sorry it is a bit confusing.

Had one 15 year old cat (9 lbs). Added a second cat a 5 month old kitten who is 9 lbs and loves to wrestle with other cats, no longer interested in cat toys. Added a third cat a 4 month old kitten who is 6 lbs to be a playmate to the second kitten.

This has helped reduce the pressure on the old cat but both the old and third kitten are on edge due to the threat of wrestling.

I was trying to get any insight or advice anyone has to give. I saw a number of similar posts but the original poster always disappears and never follows up on what happened.

 

[Jem]

With time he should start to calm down. One thing, I may have missed it, is he neutered yet? That can sometimes help calm rambunctious kitties down.
There are also wrestling or "kicker" cat toys on the market for cats who like to do that. Perhaps getting a few of those that you can rotate thru, to keep in interested in them, would help.
How long have you had kitten 2? And how long have you have kitten 3?

 

[smbsocal]

I also think if he had taken gabapentin for a while that would significantly have helped the situation but no one was recommending that at the time and I didn’t know about it. I’ve use that for two cats have come inside now who were aggressive/ scared and it has worked. Fred is still on it, he may need to be on it longer than Zena because he’s more scared but I think in time he will be able to get off of it just as Zena did.

I would try some meds and the thunder coat as well as a tree, and give the girls a lot of time away from him. A male kitten who likes to wrestle might have been a better match but there is no crystal ball for this.

I will look into Gabapentin. We did get a 4 additional cat trees so we have 5 total now.

So the thunder coat would go on the hyper cat? Interesting concept it is basically like a weighted sleeping blanket.

Every other night we are putting the wresting kitten in a room by himself so they all get a night of rest.

 

[smbsocal]

With time he should start to calm down. One thing, I may have missed it, is he neutered yet? That can sometimes help calm rambunctious kitties down.
There are also wrestling or "kicker" cat toys on the market for cats who like to do that. Perhaps getting a few of those that you can rotate thru, to keep in interested in them, would help.
How long have you had kitten 2? And how long have you have kitten 3?

The only toy he is currently interested in is chasing laser pointers, especially when on the wall he likes to pounce off walls.

We have had kitten 2 for a month and kitten 3 for 2 weeks now.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Not a problem, sorry it is a bit confusing. Had one 15 year old cat (9 lbs). Added a second cat a 5 month old kitten who is 9 lbs and loves to wrestle with other cats, no longer interested in cat toys. Added a third cat a 4 month old kitten who is 6 lbs to be a playmate to the second kitten. This has helped reduce the pressure on the old cat but both the old and third kitten are on edge due to the threat of wrestling. I was trying to get any insight or advice anyone has to give. I saw a number of similar posts but the original poster always disappears and never follows up on what happened.

Thanks! I thought that was what was going on but had to be sure!

The newest kitten might be a bit intimidated by the size difference, so she finds the 5 mo to be a bit too much for her. She also just might have a personality that is affecting her 'less than enthusiastic' response to his wrestling. So, both of them maturing a bit could go a long way with the current issue you are having. Until such time, you need to make sure the newest kitten is allowed time away from your 'mad man' so that doesn't alter her long-term personality and behavior. Not just at night but when needed during the day as well. Ditto for the oldest member of your group!

While you need time to see if your 'mad man' grows up and out of the 'very common' kitten stage he currently is in, you need to continue to find sources of entertainment that doesn't involve the other two cats as much as possible. And, if he is not neutered that could also help to calm him down a bit.

I am not an advocate of drugging a cat to either calm them or prevent anxiety, if there are more natural options for resolution, so I would strongly advise you not to take that route until you've exhausted other possible solutions and let more time pass. You have really not had these new additions in your home long enough to have reached that point, IMO.

Maybe some tips/ideas in these TCS articles?
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat – TheCatSite Articles
8 Superb Automated Cat Toys That You’re Going To Love! – TheCatSite Articles
Bored Cat? What Cat Owners Need To Know (including 10 Actionable Tips) – TheCatSite Articles

 

[smbsocal]

The newest kitten might be a bit intimidated by the size difference, so she finds the 5 mo to be a bit too much for her. She also just might have a personality that is affecting her 'less than enthusiastic' response to his wrestling. So, both of them maturing a bit could go a long way with the current issue you are having. Until such time, you need to make sure the newest kitten is allowed time away from your 'mad man' so that doesn't alter her long-term personality and behavior. Not just at night but when needed during the day as well. Ditto for the oldest member of your group!

I am not an advocate of drugging a cat to either calm them or prevent anxiety, if there are more natural options for resolution, so I would strongly advise you not to take that route until you've exhausted other possible solutions and let more time pass. You have really not had these new additions in your home long enough to have reached that point, IMO.

The second (4 mo old) kitten is a Bengal female so she can match his energy but doesn't want to wrestle all the time but rather have running / tag matches.

I have the Purina Calming Care supplement arriving today, I am hoping that this can naturally help everyone chill out.

Our vet did mention using drugs to calm him down but they also agree as a last step.

It has been 15 years since we got our last two cats and while I recall being woken up throughout the night due to the cats playing I forget how rough the playing may have been, maybe I am overreacting a bit.

 

[FeebysOwner]

The second (4 mo old) kitten is a Bengal female so she can match his energy but doesn't want to wrestle all the time but rather have running / tag matches.

I would venture to guess she likes the run/tag sessions better because she is no physical match for him when it comes to the full-on wrestling matches.

I have the Purina Calming Care supplement arriving today, I am hoping that this can naturally help everyone chill out.

Not all calming products work on all cats, so keep going through all those you can find until one does work!!