Stray Momma, 2 Kittens this morning - care questions

[inthedeepend]

I'll try to be as brief and yet as comprehensive as possible. I have no experience with cats but have been doing a lot of reading this last week. I recently moved to an area with a feral colony that is not being taken care of properly - neighbors are feeding but held off spaying b/c they thought original owners still were "taking care" of what they thought were indoor/outdoor cats. Anyway my first priority is Mama Cat. She gave birth this morning to 5 kittens while I was sleeping; 3 didn't survive, 2 did. (don't know if stillbirth or something else) I'm hoping to take care of them until they are old enough to be weaned so I can bring them to a local org for screening, spaying, and hopefully adoption. Mama is very friendly and as an abandoned former pet, a good candidate herself. She has been trying very badly to adopt us but...we cannot.

I am hamstrung by finances, time, and so-so spousal support LOL. $ - I am unemployed and we currently just barely make it on my husband's pension and self-employment which fluctuates. Further, we just spent most of our limited savings on annual and emergency vet care on our dog before we discovered fatal cancer.. Time - I am job hunting and also spending time with a nearby relative. I need your help with my questions so I don't spend hours I can't afford on the internet trying to reinvent the wheel. Support - Husband is a good guy and wants to help the cat and kittens - but on his terms ( perhaps because less than 2 wks ago our dog's tooth abscess turned out to be due to a cancerous growth which went crazy aggressive after being biopsied and poor baby didn't last a week.) He does not want the cats in the house. Our garage is filled to the brim with furniture and boxes and there's no room for her there either.

We have lots of great animal orgs here but no one has room for a lactating mom and kittens. I have to get them weaned before they will take them.

Currently Mama and the 2 surviving kittens are in a shallow plastic bin lined with towels on our patio. I know the bin isn't large enough and need to get something bigger. We are in Florida - it's 79 outside here - and I've made her a concealed area that's hidden enough for her to feel secure and not exposed to predators or other humans. They're in the corner under a roofed area sheltered from rain.

1. Mama and babies are still on the yucky birthing towel. I know I need to change it but I want to get a heating pad in there for the kittens...and can't do all this until I have a bigger box/bin. Trying to see if a neighbor has one so I can spend my few pennies on food. Question 1: research says to keep the heating pad on low but since they're not inside in regulated temperature, do I turn that up at night? I read more kittens die from too much heat than cold so I want to wait for a bigger box so they can crawl off the pad if they get too warm. Question 2:: what size box/bin should I try to get?  They need more room to move around in than they have but it seems cats prefer confined spaces so I'm quite unsure what is best. Question 3: How far should litter box be from nesting box and food and water?

2. Research says mom needs tons of extra nutrition for lactation and recommends kitten food. I've read until my eyes are crossed it seems that the consensus is that all wet is best, but any wet is better than none at all if that's what circumstances dictate. Question: what are your recommendations for  low to moderate cost wet and dry kitten food of at least middle or better nutrition quality? I don't know pricing of cat foods or how much to feed - my knowledge is dogs only. I'm sure I can't afford all top quality wet or all top quality wet and dry but maybe I can get top or at least high quality wet and stretch with a moderate quality dry??? And how often to feed? Free feed dry with wet xx times a day??? HELP please.

3. Do I have the weigh the newborns every day as recommended? I'm concerned about one of the kittens - I call him/her Snowball (white coloring). He/she seems weaker than the other (whom I'm calling Pepper, mixed black and white coloring.). Mama is TOO friendly. If I got out there to check on them she wants to be petted and will squirm and move to get herself into a better position for petting...sometimes dislodging the nursing kittens or "smushing" one under her - and Snowball doesn't seem to be able to move fast enough to get out from under her body.  I know the weight record is to catch signs of a failing kitten but I don't know if the orgs here will do low cost vet care beyond spay/neuter/blood tests so I'm not sure the weighing is necessary if I can't afford the vet care for a failing kitten.  I'd almost rather not remove the kitten just to weigh it if it means unlatching it from nursing. I'm told Mama has already had 2 litters before I moved her but I'm concerned she may accidentally squash Snowball. Pepper seems stronger, and Mama has been so open to us handling her and the kittens and not being very protective that I'm wondering how strong her maternal instincts are.

4. How do I properly "dispose" of  the 3 babies that didn't survive? Currently they're in a shoebox size bin in my garage. I don't want to call animal control if they will want to take Mama cat. I'm not sure hubby will be ok with us burying them, though.

5. Besides food, water, a litter box, a bigger nesting box, and fresh towels,  what else do I need for the next few weeks before weaning?

Please and thank you VERY MUCH.

 

[inthedeepend]

oops - towards the end that should read "I'm told Mama has already had 2 litters before I moved HERE"

 

[Sarthur2]

Where in Florida are you?

You will only need to turn a heating pad on low at night. It's quite warm here. Has been at night too. If you have no heating pad they will be okay.

Go ahead and change the towel. The new box just needs to be big enough for mom to stretch out in.

Ask at the grocery store for a box. Mom will be able to jump in and out but the kittens won't.

Get the box right away, or use a large dog crate if you can borrow one. It sounds like they desperately need more space if kittens are getting squished.

The litter box can be 2-3 feet away from the food and water.

Free feed dry Purina Kitten Chow and canned Friskies wet food is fine. Two cans a day should be enough for mom with the dry food.

Weigh the kittens daily if you have a scale. It's the only way to know if they are gaining.

Bury the deceased kittens in the yard. They are tiny and it should be easy.

It's a shame you cannot bring them inside until time to go to a shelter. Do you know anyone who could foster them inside their home?

 

[inthedeepend]

"Where in Florida are you?"

Sarasota.  Thank you for the info on the heating pad and litter box.

"Go ahead and change the towel. The new box just needs to be big enough for mom to stretch out in.

Ask at the grocery store for a box. Mom will be able to jump in and out but the kittens won't.

Get the box right away, or use a large dog crate if you can borrow one. It sounds like they desperately need more space if kittens are getting squished."

Current box is big enough for her to stretch in and a bit more. I don't have tons and tons of towels though - is newspaper ok some of the time?
They only get squished because she moves around while they're under her to get closer to me for petting. The bin is larger, but she may be avoiding the area where the three dead kittens were. I'm going to change the towel now.

"Weigh the kittens daily if you have a scale. It's the only way to know if they are gaining."
OK I will weigh.

"Bury the deceased kittens in the yard. They are tiny and it should be easy."

I hope hubby is ok with burying them. Animal control wants $ 50 to take them away and I don't even have that much for food and litter and a litter box!  I could strangle my across the street neighbor who never fixed his cats and then abandoned them. And also strangle my two neighbors who have stood by for SEVERAL litters to be born and continued to feed without TNR!!!  It took me one day to find ZERO cost TNR options local to me - we are lucky to have an abundance of organizations - and they didn't do $%_&* but feed for two years.

"It's a shame you cannot bring them inside until time to go to a shelter. Do you know anyone who could foster them inside their home?"

Nope. But according to the feeding neighbors, her last litter was born under someone's deck on the next street over, and most if not all of them survived just fine.. (Sadly, as I've been told two of THOSE kittens are pregnant but I've not seen them.) I don't know about the first litter.

"Free feed dry Purina Kitten Chow and canned Friskies wet food is fine. Two cans a day should be enough for mom with the dry food."

I read somewhere that Friskies Classics was the best low-cost Friskies option but I think that was a for a regular adult cat - what about a lactating mom?

 

[Sarthur2]

I prefer Fancy Feast classic, but you asked for lower-cost options.

Bury the kittens under some shrubs. We all do it. Put the $50 towards the care of the live animals.

You are not far from me. You do have lots of rescue and shelter options in Sarasota.

It is highly irresponsible of your neighbors to feed but not fix. I've been through that before too. Take matters into your own hands.

 

[inthedeepend]

Thanks for all your help, sarthur2. You're the only one answering and I'm starting to think I said something wrong or alienating..

IMAG2754.jpg

• inthedeepend
• Mar 28, 2017

 

[Sarthur2]

So pretty! [emoji]128149[/emoji]

I think the Purina One is fine. I use their high protein dry food for my cats and have for years. It's fairly high quality dry food on a budget. You will go through quite a bit more when the kittens begin eating. I go through a 7-pound bag every 10 days with 5 adult cats eating it.

Others will probably chime in on your thread in time. We are swamped on this forum because kitten season is in full swing already!

They will get used to being weighed. The weights are good. You'll know more when you weigh them again tomorrow. Gains should be 6-10 grams each per day minimum.

Can you please pass on information to your neighbors about the free TNR? And also about getting the kittens to a shelter for spay/neuter and adoption? It's so sad to think of these poor mamas and babies outside by themselves with no future.

Maybe you could compile some info about options and hand it to these "feeders". At least the poor cats are being fed.

 

[talkingpeanut]

You haven't said anything alienating at all! I think you're doing a wonderful job, and getting the best advice. I don't have anything to add, but please know that you are doing a wonderful thing for this family.

 

[ashade1]

Thank you for helping these babies! I don't have anything to add right now that @sarthur2  had not already said! Thank you for caring for this colony of cats!

 

[inthedeepend]

Thanks for the kind words. I thought maybe I had alienated people by whining about my neighbors. Part of why I am so upset with them for feeding them is they KNOW about TNR and haven't done a damn thing - in THREE YEARS while the original strays reproduced.

 

PLEASE HELP again..  I have a new issue and I'm angry, concerned, and feeling really overwhelmed.

I thought I was doing well by them but II found a full grown flea in the box today and I think there are some on at least one kitten. I don't know Mama was infested when she gave birth - she is almost all white and I never saw any! - or if she recently got fleas and brought them to the nest with her. (She is not using the litter box so must be going elsewhere to eliminate and then returning to the nest.)  I have been changing the bedding towel *every day* (I have a stack of 4 I rotate) and washing in hot anyway so I know it's not from lack of me trying. *sigh*

I am getting conflicting information from the internet. 

Babies: as far as I can tell I should not bathe the babies as they will get too cold, but I should make a solution of Dawn and water and use a flea comb to comb them. Is this correct? Kittens are only two days old today.

Mama: what can I do for flea prevention? I see many many people are against the commercial flea collars but if she doesn't get something the problem will just get worse and fast.

I still have a flea comb that I bought for my dog. Is it too rough to use on a 2 day old kitten? I will be as gentle as I can. Of course the one that I am sure has them is the weak, runty one that I am already worried about.

I am almost completely out of money, too. I already spent the money for my oil change and haircut on food and supplies for them. Husband thinks we can afford a flea med, but what to get that is safe AND effective? I'm not as gung ho against the commercial products as some are but I know a lot of people here won't recommend them. I need to get rid of this problem FAST so if a collar is what it will take that is what I will do even if some people will frown on that choice.

Of course now he won't even consider bringing them inside until the fleas are gone. I told him we wouldn't even HAVE this problem if we'd let her give birth inside and kept them inside from the get-go. Grrr!

FYI weight progress. They were born Tuesday am but I didn't weigh them until evening. I'm still checking on them and making sure Snowball gets onto her nipples as much as possible because she doesn't pay as much attention to him as she does Pepper and I want him to make it.

Snowball (white, runty one)

121 grams - Tues pm
126 grams - Wed am

132 grams - Wed pm
145 grams - Thur am

Pepper (black and white, stronger one)

135 grams - Tues pm
144 grams - Wed am

148 grams - Wed pm
162 grams - Thur am

 

 

[inthedeepend]

BTW please don't think I'm vain or selfish; I've already gone 6 months without a haircut and only wanted it to look decent at job interviews. Oil change is also 6 months overdue. *sigh* If our poor sweet Molly dog hadn't cost so much I'd be in better financial shape for this situation. The old cliche "when it rains, it pours!" is spot-on.

 

[Sarthur2]

The weight gains are excellent! [emoji]128077[/emoji][emoji]128522[/emoji] This tells me that mama has good milk and the kittens are nursing well.

Please do not put a flea collar on mama. They contain harmful chemicals that can irritate mom and make her sick, as well as the babies too.

I suggest a tube of Advantage II on the back of mom's neck. You may need to dose her 2 weeks apart, even though it says monthly. If put on mom it usually makes fleas die on the babies too. When they get a little older, they can have a tiny drop or two on their own necks, but not yet.

Beyond that, flea combing is best. Is it a big comb? If so, you may need a much smaller one for cats. Walmart has them.

Advantage II, combing, and changing bedding are your best options right now since they are on your porch.

Again, thank you for helping them!

 

[inthedeepend]

Oh, definitely not doing a collar, now that I had time to look things up and talk to someone at a local cat rescue. They have some kind of drops I can use on the back of her neck and it is $ 13. I don't recall her saying the name, so not sure if it is Advantage or another brand. Is that a good price?

I worry a bit about Snowball but I'm glad you think the gains are good - Mama seems to be more interested in Pepper, and I'd go so far as to say she ignores Snowball a bit, so I'm trying to make sure Snowball nurses often enough.

No, it's not a very large comb. About 3.5" x 2", and a good inch of that 2" width is the solid center of the comb - only the edges on both sides have teeth.. I wanted a really small one so I would make sure I would go over our dog REALLY thoroughly. She'd never had fleas but when we moved here permanently we were so busy we forgot to apply her flea meds right away and it took about a nanosecond for her to get fleas. Once and only once, and that was enough!  Anyway I think this comb should be fine.

It's nice of you to say so but it's weird to be thanked as there's no way I'd want her out there fending for herself and little ones with no help, even if she's apparently done it before. I don't know how people can ignore animals in need.

BTW, apparently we didn't get out there early enough with food for her this morning - she's on the patio near the back door, and she came to front door this morning meowing loudly at us. Girl's not shy, that's for sure!

 

[inthedeepend]

Aaargh, I almost forgot. What can I do about mosquitoes?

I'm assuming they can smell the little bit of blood on the towel (I do change it daily!) and they are quite the nuisance. If they're half as annoying to her as they are to me, I'd like to do something to drive them off. In my experience, citronella candles don't work - and I don't know what does that is safe for cats.

Thanks again!!!  I'm so happy to have a place that cares enough to help us newbies.

 

[Sarthur2]

Aww, nursing moms are hungry moms. They need to eat twice as much as non-pregnant cats. Do you leave her the dry food 24/7? She may need a 3rd can of wet food during these first 3 weeks of the kittens' lives.

The comb sounds perfect! Can you ask what the name of the drops is? I want you to spend your limited funds on the best product. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[Sarthur2]

Can you buy those mosquito strips that you hang from the ceiling? They are at hardware stores and probably Walmart. They attract the mosquitoes to them, and the mosquitos stick to the strips and die.

Any chance hubby would let you bring the family inside? It would be cheaper! [emoji]128521[/emoji] I know he's opposed, but maybe he'll change his mind?

 

[inthedeepend]

Yesterday went all sideways and was unable to call or stop by for flea meds. Also got water in my scale - waiting to see if it's permanently damaged.

Called local cat clinic, the phone person said it wasn't safe to put drops on the mom since she's nursing, but I could use Capstar for the instant kill. So now I'm confused, as I thought there were drops that were safe for nursing moms?

Also she said "I think it's $ 6 a pill". I see online I can get a pack of 6 cheaper if I can afford to buy all at once, but I didn't want to have to do multiple one time dosing, I wanted a long term solution to kill the eggs, not just the adults.

He was considering letting them inside, but the fleas ruined that. No way they can come inside now.

 

[inthedeepend]

Also in addition to refusing to use the litter box and doing off to do her business, she is socializing with the other strays!  Vet said I can't have her spayed while she is weaning but the brat will probably get pregnant again because I can't lock her up or watch her at all times.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Also in addition to refusing to use the litter box and doing off to do her business, she is socializing with the other strays!  Vet said I can't have her spayed while she is weaning but the brat will probably get pregnant again because I can't lock her up or watch her at all times.

She's not a brat, but she may be in heat again already. Advantage II is safe for nursing moms. Will you be allowed to bring them in if the fleas are gone?

Mom can also go back to nursing after she is spayed. You can probably find another vet in your area who will do the procedure. It's obviously very important that she not have another litter.

 

[jenlag]

Whatever you do, do not use Hartz drops! Those are around $13 and can be lethal. Advantage II works well but will cost you around $50 for a 4 pack at Walmart.