Stray Momma, 2 Kittens this morning - care questions

[Sarthur2]

inthedeepend

The whole point of bringing them in is so you can get rid of fleas and then don't get them again. As long as mom socializes with other strays she will have fleas.

Capstar pills kill the fleas on mom but do not prevent them coming back. The pill works for 6 hours and that's it.

Advantage II kills and prevents, AND is SAFE for nursing moms, despite what the rescue said. No Hartz - very dangerous!

There is NO permanent way to keep fleas off a cat other than bringing the cat in and eradicating all fleas. This is possible to do inside, but not out. You will need multiple doses. Probably a dose 2 weeks apart, and then again monthly.

If there are that many strays in your neighborhood, you need to talk with a rescue about TNR'ing them. You'll have kittens all summer long otherwise.

For that matter, mom needs to be inside so that you CAN get her spayed in a few weeks BEFORE she gets pregnant again. There are vets who will spay a nursing mom at 8 weeks. She can continue to nurse afterwards.

Cats learn to use a litter box easily once they are in the house. You'd be surprised.

I hope today is going better for you. How are the kittens doing?

 

[inthedeepend]

Well, I was all ready to post positive updates here but have been so busy I've not been able to...and now I have a problem.

Good news first:

No one had fleas. We had found one flea on the towel in the box, not on the cats, which had spurred me into action. Bathing the kittens and combing Mama cat, we found nothing. The cat rescue advised us to keep checking but not to buy or apply meds until we found something, which we didn't. So far, so good.

The kittens have been gaining well. They were two weeks old yesterday. The runty one (Snowball) is up to 352 grams (weighed 121 day 1 after hours of feeding, not immediately post-birth); he started out white but is developing grey patches, so I guess I named him prematurely LOL. Pepper (black and white) has gone from 135 (also day 1 but after hours of feeding) to 387 grams.

Snowball opened his eyes first about 4 days ago; Pepper followed 2 days later.

Two of the feral toms came sniffing around (different days) and I chased them off. Mama was scoping out the garage and I knew she wanted to move them. Long story short we moved the nest box to the garage and they've been there for about 4-5 days now. She will not use the litter box though. I have reluctantly left the garage door open just a wee bit during the day for her to get out and do her business, but I know she is socializing with the other cats and it bothers me. I don't want her to get pregnant while she is nursing since I was advised to not spay her until the babies are weaned. I do shut the door at night. She is also mostly refusing to eat the wet cat food. At first she enjoyed it but I think since she is used to getting dry that's what she usually wants and is turning up her nose at the wet.

I just got some advice on how to try to get her to use the litter box and am going to follow it and try to keep her in 24/7.

PROBLEM:

When Snowball opened his eyes a few days ago they were fine. This morning I see one looks crusted over. I have no idea if it's been more than 1 or 2 days as we usually don't get to see the babies' faces straight on. I hadn't made a point of inspecting their faces when I weigh them and now of course I'm furious with myself. I've been advised to use a warm moist cotton ball to clean it and hope it clears up on its own; otherwise, I have to take him in and see if it's an infection requiring antibiotics. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Primula]

When Snowball opened his eyes a few days ago they were fine. This morning I see one looks crusted over. I have no idea if it's been more than 1 or 2 days as we usually don't get to see the babies' faces straight on. I hadn't made a point of inspecting their faces when I weigh them and now of course I'm furious with myself. I've been advised to use a warm moist cotton ball to clean it and hope it clears up on its own; otherwise, I have to take him in and see if it's an infection requiring antibiotics. Anyone have any experience with this?

It's very common & happens overnight. Do exactly what you've said with the warm cotton ball. All the gunk will easily wipe off. You'll probably find you only do this once or twice. If it gets worse, obviously a vet will be required.

 

[inthedeepend]

5 days old

13 days old. You can't tell but they are much heavier!

 

[inthedeepend]

It won't wipe off. The gunk is a crust and the eye is sealed shut. I spent as long as I dared on it before having to return him to Mama. Both of them were quite unhappy and now that he's bigger his cries are much louder.

I will have to wait for my husband to get home. If he can hold Snowball still maybe I can try to get the crust loose with my fingernail edge without hurting his eye?

 

[Primula]

It won't wipe off. The gunk is a crust and the eye is sealed shut. I spent as long as I dared on it before having to return him to Mama. Both of them were quite unhappy and now that he's bigger his cries are much louder.

I will have to wait for my husband to get home. If he can hold Snowball still maybe I can try to get the crust loose with my fingernail edge without hurting his eye?

So even with a warm cotton ball it won't come off? Hmmmm, is it easy for you to take him to a vet? I think I read here recently that this is very bad for the eye if ignored.

 

[inthedeepend]

The crust is definitely a hard crust that was not loosening up no matter how long I tried to leave the moisture on.

Husband came home and held Snowball while I worked on the eye. I finally had to CAREFULLY use my fingernail starting at one edge to get under it and pry it loose in little sections. After I got it all off I saturated more cotton pads with warm water and just put them on the eye like a compress to try to help with the irritation. You can see the skin around the eye is a bit swollen and red. However, the eyeball itself looks pretty clear. Going to keep an eye on it and hope it clears up on its own.

Primula, we have vets close by - it's just that money is scarce right now so I'm hoping to avoid a vet bill.

 

[Primula]

See what it's like in the morning as these things develop overnight. Hopefully, it will be clear then.

 

[Sarthur2]

I would continue to apply the warm compress, and definitely make sure the eye stays open. When pus builds up behind the lid it can cause blindness.

In general I do not recommend prying the eye open as you did. You can order a tube of the antibiotic eye ointment, terramycin, online without a prescription. This is generally what a vet would give you for kitten eye infections.

Please keep us posted on the little guy!

 

[inthedeepend]

I looked up the terramycin. Though it seems commonly used I was not comfortable applying it without seeing a vet. Snowball has continued to have discharge; for a few days it was crusty but it has decreased and not had buildup like it was. However the eye rim looks pink and I'm thinking I may take him in anyway.

I have a new issue. We have been busy and not had a chance to put dirt in a litter box to try to get Mama Cat to use it. That was the recommendation of the rescue - they won't take her to adopt out if she still goes outside instead of using a litter box. I'm ashamed to say we're behind in doing this.

Now, Mama Cat is a little slutty, LOL. She ALWAYS arches her butt at you with her tail high to expose herself when you pet her, even when not in heat. (I think perhaps she's been constantly pregnant since she's been on the street so maybe it's just natural to her to always assume the position.)

S...today she was very insistent on going out. The last two days I ended up getting one of the kittens to get Mama to come back in - after she went to the bathroom she ignored me and went wandering, either to explore and enjoy not being cooped up 24/7, or to socialize with the other strays/ferals. So I carried a kitten outside with me, and his mewing brought Mama running. It is the only way to guarantee she'll be back in the house before she has a chance to have sex. When Mama was so insistent on going out today, I wasn't sure if 1) it was just that she REALLY needed to because she ate a lot of food overnight, or 2) she is in heat, because it's been 3 1/2 weeks since she gave birth. She doesn't yowl terribly like I see on internet videos of cats in heat. And she is always over-affectionate in an inappropriate way, LOL. But she was constantly running back and forth to the various doors in the house, and mewing at me to let her out.

So to throw another variable in...last night the bigger kitten, Pepper, finally was able to climb out of the nesting bin they were in. We were planning on getting a taller box tonight as we don't want the kittens wandering in the garage and getting lost and inaccessible among all our moving boxes since we need to train them on the litter box soon. (The garage is a disaster, they can easily get to a place where we couldn't get to them.) We went out to dinner and when we got home, the kittens were in a different area of the garage. I don't think they got there on their own - it's near to the original place Mama wanted to move them to from the outside nest. When we opened the garage door, she was *right there* at the door, either because she needed to relieve herself or because she was moving the kittens. We moved the nesting box into the laundry room and won't let them back in the garage because we don't want to lose our ability to work with them. Mama is furious and won't stop meowing at us.

So now I have no clue if earlier today 1) she just wanted to go out to relieve herself 2) she wanted to go out to party with the boys or 3) she wanted to go out and find a new hiding place for the kittens OR perhaps start training them (they are almost 4 weeks). Is there any way to know what she really wanted? Do queens change nests again at 4 weeks or so?

 

[Sarthur2]

You are playing with fire by continuing to let the cat outside!

Your cat may be in heat, and by letting her out you can be absolutely sure that she will be pregnant again very soon. She may even run off for a couple of days while doing so.

You need to take responsibility and immediately set up a litter box filled with dirt for her, and stop letting her out until she can be spayed.

As you said, the kittens need to begin to learn the litter box any day now too, so you need it for everyone's sake.

Pregnant and nursing cats are driven by the same hormones a cat experiences while in heat, which makes them very affectionate. Cats are not slutty, they are merely driven by hormones and instincts that are a part of Mother Nature.

You did the right thing by moving the kittens from the garage to the laundry room. The garage sounds very dangerous. It does not matter what the cat wanted to do. She does not need to move her kittens or go outside.

You'll need to be careful opening any doors around the cat, even with an inside litter box.

Please also make time to take care of the kitten's eye. It sounds like medicine is needed asap.

 

[inthedeepend]

I've already made it clear she'll be spayed the minute the kittens are weaned, so while I don't want her to get pregnant, it won't be the end of the world if she does get pregnant because they'd be aborted before viability. I truly don't want that to happen, but there is no guarantee she will use the box of dirt immediately and I'm not going to let her be in pain by not letting her out to go. Yes I'd like to have done it sooner but I actually have other responsibilities in my life and...never mind, I can't believe I'm defending myself here. And for heaven's sake, the slutty comment was a JOKE.

Tell you what - since you can do so much better than I can, why don't I just drop them at your house? I've spent time and money I don't have trying to do right by these animals that others have abandoned/neglected and you judge me and tell me I'm not taking responsibility because I'm not perfect? I'm not looking for a pat on the back but I am certainly not looking to be insulted either.

Thanks for your assistance. I will direct further inquiries to the local resources.

PS She moved the kittens to underneath my bed so though you think she didn't "need" to move them, apparently she felt she did.

 

[Sarthur2]

inthedeepend

I meant she did not need to move her babies around the garage. No offense was meant, and I hope you will stay with the forum.

You are doing a wonderful thing helping these feral cats as I mentioned earlier in the thread. I realize it can be overwhelming.

Cats learn a litter box quickly, and setting one up would prevent her getting pregnant again, as back to back pregnancies are very hard on cats.

Under your bed is a good place for the kittens as well. They will socialize more easily than in the garage.

 

[AbbysMom]

Thanks for your assistance. I will direct further inquiries to the local resources.

Oh don't do that. After "working" here on the site with Sarthur2 for a while, I can assure you that she certainly didn't mean to upset you. I think she is also concerned for you. If mamacat does get pregnant again, the spay can be slightly more difficult and could also cost you more.

You've obviously done your research and are trying to do your best for these cats. Good for you! Please do keep posting as we are all interested in how things are going, although I don't have the information to help as others do.