Semi-feral: Bring Them Inside Or Not?

[rubysmama]

Major step forward !!!!

 

[shadowsrescue]

Such great news! This made my day!!! Ruby and Lucky are so fortunate to have you!

 

[Avery]

It has been over a month and I thought I'd post an update as we have hit a medical milestone! Ruby and Lucky just had their second and final test for FIV and FeLV. Both tested negative! I have kept them isolated from my two other cats, Palmer and Rosie, for over 60 days to be extra-cautious, but also because Ruby has remained pretty stand-offish and I had hoped to better socialize her.

Even though the vet who neutered Lucky over a year ago said he couldn’t be handled and we all assumed he was feral, he has turned into the biggest love-bug so he must have been a scared stray. He goes crazy playing with his toys and loves to be petted and brushed. I was able to just pick him up, even though he was scared, and put him in the carrier to go to the vet appointment.

Ruby, hmmm... not so easy! I gave her gabapentin two hours before her appointment. This worked once before because I then lured her into her carrier with treats. This time, she wouldn't be lured so I just waited for the medicine to kick in. Unfortunately, she wasn't drowsy enough to pick up or maneuver into the carrier so after a brief chase around the room, I gave up and canceled the appointment. I made an appointment for the following week. Same thing, she was still not drowsy enough. However, I decided I had to get her to the vets so I did chase her and finally was able to get her in the carrier. I'll spare the details, let me just say that both cats were terrified and I was exhausted and feeling like the worst bully in the entire world. After consulting with Shadowsrescue, I realize that I need to wait longer for the gabapentin to kick in and hopefully that will help if/when Ruby has another vet appointment.

This long weekend was going to be the start of introductions with the other two cats. Unfortunately, with the horribly botched vet visit, we have taken a few steps backwards. Both cats are now more tentative, might even hide in or under the cat tree, when I come in their room. It takes longer for Lucky to come out for petting. Ruby hesitates to come over when I am getting their food ready although she eventually comes over and will walk back and forth, rubbing against my legs like she did before. She will still take treats from my hand and has been offering head bumps against my fist when I hold out a treat. She played with a snakey cat toy a few times from the safety of the cat tree. All of these are good things, but I sense she is more nervous about all of them and she looks at me with suspicion!

I was able to do a little bit of scent-swapping with socks and with blankets over the past couple of days. None of the cats seem bothered by the new smells. I suppose, as Norachan once mentioned, they have already smelled each other through me for the past few years! I also opened the door to their safe room and put treats on both sides of the door, leaving the two gates in place. Palmer ate his treats, but Ruby and Lucky didn't even come over to the door. They both seem very comfortable in their safe room, with Ruby mostly sitting and sleeping on various levels of the cat tree, and they don't seem to care to get out. Palmer doesn't go upstairs very often except at bedtime and only once in a while sits outside their door, and Rosie seems oblivious that there are any other cats in the house! I think this is going to take a VERY long time!

I guess the next step is more treats, maybe a wand toy, for anyone who will approach their side of the door. Maybe leave the door open (gates in place) with me right there and just let them see each other. When it is time to let them out of their safe room, I will try to restrict them to small portions of the house before letting them explore everywhere. I think Lucky will be ready to explore way before Ruby.

What am I missing? Does anyone see anything worrisome? How long has anyone kept cats strictly in their safe room? Do you need to kind of nudge them out or is it OK for them to stay as long as they want? (I really want them to have the whole house. One room seems so sad. I'm even planning on building a catio in the spring.) Should Ruby be allowed out if I can't touch her and pick her up? Any ideas, advice, warnings?! Thanks, as always!!

 

[rubysmama]

Since I've never socialized ferals, or introduced cats, I'll leave the advice to the other members.

However,

Ruby and Lucky just had their second and final test for FIV and FeLV. Both tested negative!

Great news !!!!!!!

 

[Jcatbird]

I don’t think you have missed anything. It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job! Having setbacks with ferals is just part of the process. A suspicious look is common and so is a tough vet visit. Don’t feel like a bully. You did what is necessary for their well being and cats are very forgiving. They may be a little mad but they will recover. (Rubbing against your leg? The kitties love you!) I have had the chase issue before too. I got a top loading carrier and the really scared ferals seem to prefer that. It has a door and the top opening so I guess they think there is an escape route.
As for introductions, I do everything gradually. Baby steps. If the kitties are open to going faster then you will be able to tell. Great job with these kitties! Congratulations on your accomplishments with them and on great test results! These kitties are very fortunate to have you.

 

[Furballsmom]

Both tested negative!

This is wonderful news!!
Hang in there, and as Jcatbird commented, you'll be able to tell how fast or not you'll be able to go with things.

is it OK for them to stay as long as they want?

They are content, and that's a huge thing - you deserve such kudos for this, I can't even begin to tell you how awesome I think this is!!

 

[Avery]

Jcatbird, Furballsmom, and Rubysmama -- Thanks so much for the nice supportive feedback. It is really, really appreciated. I have cat-loving friends, but no one who really understands this feral cat thing!

I was off work today, waiting for a plumber who ended up canceling, so I decided to try some introductions with the door open and the gates in place. Palmer was happy to have treats and play on one side of the door, purring his little heart out. Ruby and Lucky did not even approach the door even when I moved their treats closer to them. Tonight when I gave them dinner, I kept the door open a bit and they didn't seem the least bit curious! In fact, they seem afraid.

They have a nice room, not big but not tiny (I measured and it is 8.5' x 15' with a little extra space for a dormer and another little alcove where I have the litter boxes) and there are two windows, a big cat tree, condos, heated beds (which they haven't used yet!), a cardboard box, and toys. I think that THEY think that this is their life forever more! I take heart from Shadowsrescue who said one of her ferals was in his safe room for a year... and now I can really understand how that could happen!

 

[Catmandu12]

I have a semi-feral who has adopted me (her mom did too but disappeared...), and i have started taking her in when the weather is bad (raining or snowing). She doesn't mind being indoors once she is in, just yowls when i pick her up and carry her in. Her younger half-sister from mom's last litter i snagged by the tree as a kitten (but, still has some feralish tendencies-strangers in my room are scary until they are seen enough). The two get along well enough, only the occasional growl, but the Mainly indoor/sometimes (15-20 min. max) outdoor seems quietly happier when Baby Cat (the older half-sister) is back outside during the day. My plan is to keep Baby Cat a mainly outdoor/sometimes indoor cat (our cats growing up were indoor/outdoor cats) until further notice. [it's just funny how all the ferals, semi-ferals, and everybody else's cats see me a mile away as a soft touch...has been this way for a while.]

 

[rubysmama]

Avery : Sorry, I can't remember, is Palmer your only other cat? If so, where does he sleep at night? Would you be able to keep him in one room at night, with food, water, litter box, etc., and leave Ruby and Lucky's door open and see if they'd venture out at night when all is quiet. You could leave a few treats outside their door, so if the treats disappear, you'd know one of the cats was exploring.

Catmandu12 : Welcome to TCS. If you'd like, you can start your own thread in here in the Caring for Strays and Ferals forum and/or introduce yourself and Baby Cat in our New Cats on the Block forum.
How To Create A New Thread

 

[Avery]

We have moved to the next step (introductions and safe room breaks!) and I really need some advice.

To answer Rubysmama's question: In addition to Lucky and Ruby (still in their safe room after three months), there is Palmer (male, almost four years old) and Rosie (tiny female, almost fifteen). Rosie seems to have no idea there are other cats in the house and, for some reason, I am not worried about Rosie and the new cats—she keeps to herself, sleeps a lot, and I think they will all ignore each other. (I could be very wrong!) On the other hand, Palmer is anxious to meet them and I think he could use a buddy… like Lucky!

The problem is that Lucky (stray) and Ruby (semi-feral) are at very different stages, socialization-wise, and I’m not sure how to move forward. Lucky has become very friendly and sociable with me while Ruby isn’t. She will greet me at the door then rub against my legs while I prepare to feed them, give head bumps when I hand-feed treats, and let me pet her quickly while she eats a treat, but otherwise I can’t pet her or pick her up. She spends most of her time on the cat tree sleeping and looking out the window. I do see her at night (on the camera) wandering around and sleeping on her cozy carrier pad. Once I saw her playing with a catnip toy!

For the last couple of weeks, I have been opening the door to the safe room and allowing them to explore the rest of the upstairs, which is just a hall, a bathroom, and my bedroom. Lucky will eventually go out very hesitantly and sniff around, but after a few minutes he returns to the safe room or maybe pauses in the hallway where I will sit and pet him. Ruby poked her head out the door once and Lucky chased her back inside the safe room which was very disappointing. Since then she stays up on the cat tree when Lucky is out exploring and shows no interest in going out.

Lucky and Palmer are also eating treats just a few feet away from each other on either side of the gate. They are a bit uneasy but stay calm and even purr a little. Ruby came over once or twice for treats but stays further away and eats just one or two before heading back to the cat tree. I have also waved a wand toy around and Palmer and Lucky will grab at it. They are very aware of each other!

Lucky and Ruby both seem very content in their safe room, but I think that it is time for Lucky to venture a little further. I was thinking of putting Palmer and Rosie in my bedroom, where there is a litter box and water bowl, and letting Lucky out to explore the downstairs for short periods while I supervise. The downstairs rooms cannot be easily closed off and there are places to hide, like under the couch, but I’m not too worried about losing control of Lucky because I can pick him up and probably shoo him back to his safe room if necessary. I will close the door to the basement because there are way too many places to hide there! (Rubysmama suggested doing this at night. It would be possible to keep Palmer and Rosie in my bedroom -- which is where Palmer sleeps anyway -- and I do like the idea, but I'm afraid the whole house would be too much for Ruby right now. Maybe after I see how Lucky does.)

During these adventures, I want the safe room to remain open so Lucky can return, but I can’t just leave the door ajar or Palmer might go in and scare Ruby. And I don’t think Ruby is ready to leave the safe room, at least not for the whole house. I guess I’ll have to close the safe room door while Lucky is out exploring but be ready to quickly open it when he is ready to go back in. I am thinking of doing this for a week or so, then letting Lucky out to meet Palmer and Rosie. If all goes well, maybe Lucky will be out permanently. I do worry about how to keep the safe room always available to him, but also keep Ruby safe from nosy Palmer. Any ideas about how to do that?!

Does it sound like Lucky is ready to explore the rest of the house? He doesn't seem that interested in going out but maybe he is just being super-cautious. Am I moving too quickly? Sometimes I wonder if I am going too slowly for him and worry that he will never want to leave the safe room!

Should I try to lure Ruby to come out? Is it OK that she just stays in the safe room? Maybe if Lucky is out more, maybe forever fairly soon, it will be helpful to Ruby’s socialization. It is much too easy to spend time with Lucky, who asks for petting and brushing and belly rubs, and let Ruby rest on the cat tree where she is very comfortable and feels safe. On the other hand, should Ruby be allowed out if I can’t pet her or pick her up?

Well, there you are -- another loooong post! Thanks so much for any thoughts and advice, and happy holidays to everyone!

 

[kittyluv387]

I think you're doing fine. And Lucky sounds ready since he's exploring on his own and kinda interacting with your cat. I think it's fine if Ruby goes at her own pace. @Kat0121 do you have any suggestions? I think I remember you let one of your cats stay in a safe room for a long time but left the door open for your resident cats to visit. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

 

[rubysmama]

It does sound like Lucky is ready to explore. I know I mentioned night-time, but maybe day/evening when you're home would be better. Then you could watch him, and also he'd be able to find you, if he wanted.

And then let him meet Palmer, and see how it goes. You can always restart the introductions, if necessary.

I also wonder if Ruby would be more open to socializing with you, once Lucky was out and about the rest of the house.

Eventually with Ruby, would it be possible to get a dog crate, so you could do what Jcatbird is doing with BJ? Of course, that would mean being able to touch/lift Ruby. But might be something to keep in mind for later.

The only way I can think of to keep the safe room available for Lucky without the others being able to get in, would be to get a cat flap door that works by a microchip in the collar, which Lucky would wear.

Happy Holidays to you too. Looking forward to the continuing saga of Ruby and Lucky in 2019.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I had Marvin in a safe room for one solid year! He did get out with supervision and with my other cat put away. Yet, the two could not be out together for a year. After about 7 months, I was able to have them out together in the house during the day, but it required lots of supervision. At night Marvin would still go to his safe room with the door closed.

I started by putting my resident cat away and allowing Marvin time to explore. At first he would not come downstairs, but eventually he did. Yet any little noise would send him running back up.

I do think it's time to allow Lucky some time out. Just put both of your cats away. I would start with only short bursts of time so he isn't overwhelmed. You might even allow him to have some special treats so he associates the space with something good. Do keep the safe room door open so he can get back in. If Ruby does come out, I am sure you can lure her back. She may take much longer.

The 3 feral cats I am working with now are all at different levels too. I have 2 that will come out some during the day with my other cats put away. One will go all over the house. The other will only stay on the first floor and close to the safe room. The third will not leave the room at all. He is just too afraid.

My 3 are allowed out at night. I keep 2 of my other cats in the bedroom with my DH and I all night. It's not ideal, but it works. I then allow the other 3 to be out and about on the first floor. They can come upstairs, but all of the doors are closed. I also do not allow them in the basement. I do have one other cat that is awesome with them. He is allowed to be out and about with them all night. Unfortunately my other 2 cats are taking a very very long time to adjust to the feral boys.

You can always try to move forward and if it seems too much, just back up and wait a bit.

 

[Jcatbird]

They all go at their own pace. I have had good luck with providing a mobile safe haven. I have a large cage and a carrier. I let the scare kitty use the carrier as an eating place, treats place, bed, etc. until they are used to it. Then I put them and the carrier into the cage which is located in the main room with my other cats. At first I cover the cage with a light sheet. After awhile I pull it back a bit so the kitty inside it can peep out and watch the others. ( litter box, water and food are given in the cage. At first the kitty in the cage tends to sit in or on the carrier. However, curiosity and the fact that they realize no other cat can get to them, makes them curious and secure enough to start exploring and watching the other cats. From that point I pull the sheet back more and more as the kitty seems comfortable with it. Then I move to petting if they still aren’t used to that. After we accomplish that I start to open the cage and bring them just outside the door but use the door to block any other cat from getting too close. The next step is putting the kitty in my lap. By this point most are ready to meet kitties. I hold them back a little longer just to make sure everyone is friendly and on the same page. After that I begin leaving the door open for the kitty to come out while I am there. The other cats recognize this as the kitty’s house and don’t generally try to enter. If that goes well then I leave the door open all the time. Some come out permanently and others still retreat to the cage for awhile to sleep. In time I can bring their carrier out for their safe haven and it is permanently assigned to that cat. Some cat still enjoy going in the cages for private time but this is a house with many, many cats. I can’t blame them there. We all need a quiet moment. I am working with BJ as that coming out the cage door to my lap stage now. When I can be sure all will be friendly then we’ll move to the next stage. This process has worked for my most feral cats very well. It takes time but seems to be the least upsetting to them. There is no pressure on them from other cats to demand territory and little hissing or swatting. We still have a rare bout of ,” that’s my toy”, or I want Mom to pet me first but we don’t have any real fights or hiding binges. I hope this helps. It sounds like you have been making outstanding progress already. Good job with them! rubysmama Thanks for giving me a chance to tell about using the cage and carrier safe haven. It has advanced many kitties to adjusting to others for me.

 

[Avery]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your ideas and support. I truly am grateful. Shadowsrescue and Jcatbird, hearing about your experiences is invaluable.

Just tonight, Palmer and Lucky were on either side of the gate a few feet apart and they both were purring. So cute! Then when I closed the door, they started playing footsie under the door! I think that I will start tomorrow letting Lucky out for a short time to explore the house with Palmer and Rosie locked in my bedroom. He may not get far, but we'll see what happens!

Thanks again. I guess this is more of an art than a science!

 

[Furballsmom]

I guess this is more of an art than a science!

 

[Jcatbird]

Great to hear. They are curious about the little feet under the door! Lol purring super!

 

[rubysmama]

Just tonight, Palmer and Lucky were on either side of the gate a few feet apart and they both were purring. So cute! Then when I closed the door, they started playing footsie under the door!

Awww... sounds like they're gonna be besties.

I think that I will start tomorrow letting Lucky out for a short time to explore the house with Palmer and Rosie locked in my bedroom. He may not get far, but we'll see what happens!

Good luck.

 

[Avery]

I wanted to post an update on Lucky’s and Ruby’s progress! For the past ten days or so, I have been putting Palmer in my bedroom, closing the basement door, and opening the door to the safe room, which is on the second floor, to give them access to the first floor. I do this two to three times a day for short periods of time.

Ruby stays up on the cat tree, but twice I was very happy to see a video on the camera of Ruby jumping down, going to the door of the safe room, and peeking out. Once she actually went out completely into the hall, but returned quickly. (This happened while I was downstairs with Lucky.) This is progress at Ruby’s pace!

Lucky, who had become pretty comfortable sitting in the hall outside the safe room, is getting braver and braver about going downstairs. Each time, he heads downstairs more quickly and explores further. Usually, I wait for him downstairs and hover around where little Rosie is sleeping. They have touched noses or gotten very close a few times—no hissing or bad behavior from either of them! Last night, after roaming around downstairs and investigating everything, Lucky jumped up on a chair and was ready to take a nap! Tonight, he decided to sit on the living room rug and watch TV! Both times, I had to shoo him back to his safe room after about half an hour so I could let Palmer out and go to bed!

I’m thinking it is time for Lucky and Palmer to meet face to face, especially now that Lucky wants to stay out longer. They have eaten treats on either side of the gate, sometimes as close as one or two feet away. They play footsie under the door. They often purr in each other’s presence and I have never heard a hiss or growl.

But is it too soon? Should I let Lucky explore a little longer until he is totally comfortable being downstairs and is confident he can run back up to his safe room?

And where to let them meet? Is it OK to let Palmer out when Lucky is downstairs, further from the safe room, or should I have them meet in the hallway just outside the safe room? I would need to make sure Palmer doesn’t go into the safe room and scare Ruby so I’d have to supervise that closely!

If they get along great, how long should I let Lucky stay out? I think he should still spend the night and eat meals in the safe room, at least for a while, but should I let him stay out for only a short time, then try to get him back to the safe room?

For some reason, I’m very nervous about this next step and I look forward to any suggestions and advice!

 

[Furballsmom]

Wow, this is great!!
I'd have them meet in the hallway, it is more equal territory for each of them.
If things go well, I'd leave lucky out