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Just a FYI re Depo Mederol. Two of my cats were on it for stomatitis. They both developed diabetes. After the fact, I was told this is a side effect.
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Sebastian is Back at the Vet...Suspected Pancreatitis Again :(
- Thread starter goholistic
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #562
Some things have been transpiring.
Sebastian has been doing GREAT for the past week.
Eating, playing, being bad (in a good way). Coincidentally, it started when I introduced a new protein: pork. (Yes, there was a reason for me starting that thread about pork. There IS a method to my madness!) He is now eating in rotation the canned versions of Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit Formula and Pork Formula. He LOVES this food (for now) and has been eating well and licks his bowl completely clean. I like that NV doesn't use carrageenan or gum thickeners. I've stopped the Royal Canin canned rabbit because he will no longer touch it. I did try the H&G pork in the beginning, but it seemed to upset his stomach.
I've revisited home cooked meals to offer with canned meals. For a couple weeks now, I've been offering him small amounts of cooked rabbit at every meal (replaces the dry I stopped feeding him). We started out at one pea-sized piece. It was kind of funny, because he would literally eat one piece the size of a pea and I would say, "That's all!" He'd look at me like, "Seriously?"
Now we're up to about a teaspoon! Since I've now introduced pork, I picked up some center cut pork chops, which at some point I'll cook for him and supplement with Balance It.
He still has one red mark in his ear, but it's definitely better than what was in the pictures I posted above. It's almost like the reaction he had left a scar.
Last Thursday, I had a long distance phone consultation with a vet who specializes in combining Western Medicine with Traditional Chinese Medicine and other alternative therapies to get optimal results. She is vet # 4 involved with Sebastian's case. I felt very positive about our conversation. She offered more suggestions for Sebastian - in many aspects of medicine and supplements - than the first three vets combined. She offered some suggestions on what we could change with the Western meds he is on, and wants me to talk to our regular vet about this. She did say that I need to rotate cooling proteins as much as I can, and that his body could start looking at the rabbit as an antigen. Well, we knew that, but hearing it from her made me wonder if then introducing the pork kind of "restarted" his system.
She wants to get Sebastian started on probiotic therapy, antioxidant therapy and some Chinese herbs, which they mailed to me. She gave him a Chinese "diagnosis" which, of course, I researched. I can totally see how she came to her conclusion. She is also on the fence about digestive enzymes for pancreatitis, but feels that I could try a gentle formula without fillers and see how he does. Knowing how slowly I have to introduce things, I fear it'll take me years to start him on all these things, but I'm going to reach out to this vet and see what she suggests I do first and/or what I can do simultaneously.
Onward....
Sebastian has been doing GREAT for the past week.
I've revisited home cooked meals to offer with canned meals. For a couple weeks now, I've been offering him small amounts of cooked rabbit at every meal (replaces the dry I stopped feeding him). We started out at one pea-sized piece. It was kind of funny, because he would literally eat one piece the size of a pea and I would say, "That's all!" He'd look at me like, "Seriously?"
He still has one red mark in his ear, but it's definitely better than what was in the pictures I posted above. It's almost like the reaction he had left a scar.
Last Thursday, I had a long distance phone consultation with a vet who specializes in combining Western Medicine with Traditional Chinese Medicine and other alternative therapies to get optimal results. She is vet # 4 involved with Sebastian's case. I felt very positive about our conversation. She offered more suggestions for Sebastian - in many aspects of medicine and supplements - than the first three vets combined. She offered some suggestions on what we could change with the Western meds he is on, and wants me to talk to our regular vet about this. She did say that I need to rotate cooling proteins as much as I can, and that his body could start looking at the rabbit as an antigen. Well, we knew that, but hearing it from her made me wonder if then introducing the pork kind of "restarted" his system.
She wants to get Sebastian started on probiotic therapy, antioxidant therapy and some Chinese herbs, which they mailed to me. She gave him a Chinese "diagnosis" which, of course, I researched. I can totally see how she came to her conclusion. She is also on the fence about digestive enzymes for pancreatitis, but feels that I could try a gentle formula without fillers and see how he does. Knowing how slowly I have to introduce things, I fear it'll take me years to start him on all these things, but I'm going to reach out to this vet and see what she suggests I do first and/or what I can do simultaneously.
Onward....
Fantastic news!
Did you get the same sort of reaction when you initially started rabbit?
Did you get the same sort of reaction when you initially started rabbit?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #564
You mean with him feeling good and doing well? Yes. You thinking maybe he's allergic to rabbit now?
No, I was just wondering if there's a pattern. Since you're giving him NV rabbit and he's doing OK, he's probably not allergic to rabbit. I have heard, though, that when people try to lose weight, you need to shake things up every once in a while or your metabolism plateaus. I wonder if eating the same thing everyday can have other effects?
You mean with him feeling good and doing well? Yes. You thinking maybe he's allergic to rabbit now?That would suck.
This is VERY encouraging!!! 
I'm so glad to hear he's feeling better - that's really wonderful. :heart2:
So what was his TCM diagnosis?
I'm so glad to hear he's feeling better - that's really wonderful. :heart2:So what was his TCM diagnosis?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #568
Hmm....very possible. I'm doing some research to see what other cooling proteins I could offer him that won't cause a reaction.
You ready? ............ "Stomach yin deficiency"
Interesting. I wonder if that's the same diagnosis as Chumley, just in a "westernized" verbiage. Chum had both a spleen Qi deficiency and an extreme yin deficiency. The vet explained that the Chinese Medicine says "spleen" but it means the stomach.
:dk:
:dk:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #570
It's my understanding from this vet that stomach yin deficiency and spleen qi deficiency are two different diagnoses, although one can effect, or lead to, the other. I actually brought up spleen qi deficiency in our conversation because I read that in TCM the spleen also involves the pancreas, but she was thinking out loud and said, "No, no...that's not it...not based on what you're telling me." She was very thorough and was asking me a TON of questions to help her with the diagnosis and prescribe the proper Chinese herbs (which I haven't started yet). She wanted a picture of his tongue, which I couldn't get, so I described his tongue to her based on what I've seen from his many meows and yawns.Interesting. I wonder if that's the same diagnosis as Chumley, just in a "westernized" verbiage. Chum had both a spleen Qi deficiency and an extreme yin deficiency. The vet explained that the Chinese Medicine says "spleen" but it means the stomach.
Not like I needed a new challenge, but I got one. I sent the TCM vet a few follow-up questions via email, including my observations and challenges with diet. Since Sebastian seems to be doing so well since starting him on the pork, she thinks Sebastian's body sees the rabbit as an antigen now, and wants me to rotate off the rabbit. Also, the rash on his ear flap still has not gone away, which means this could be caused from a [new] allergic reaction to the rabbit. I told her I'm kind of at a loss, because he may now be allergic to several things, and we're trying to stick with "cooling" proteins. So, I just don't know what to offer him. I mentioned frogs legs (why didn't I think of this before!?).
Great update! Glad to hear Sebastian is making some progress.
Right about the time I decided to take my cat with the sensitive stomach to a holistic vet, I stumbled across the concept of food energy, which totally makes sense looking back. He had terrible reactions to chicken and a mild reaction to lamb, which are both on the warm side. However, he's doing well on duck and rabbit, which are both cool, and turkey. I am also feeding the NVI rabbit, and he loves it and tolerates it. I, too, was initially worried about the pork, but I've seen that as a neutral protein. I figure if I keep my guy away from warm proteins for now, hopefully he'll be okay. He stared probiotics just a week ago and I think he feels better.
It sounds like a lot to introduce. I think you're smart to start slowly, also so you can assess how Sebastian does with each one.
Right about the time I decided to take my cat with the sensitive stomach to a holistic vet, I stumbled across the concept of food energy, which totally makes sense looking back. He had terrible reactions to chicken and a mild reaction to lamb, which are both on the warm side. However, he's doing well on duck and rabbit, which are both cool, and turkey. I am also feeding the NVI rabbit, and he loves it and tolerates it. I, too, was initially worried about the pork, but I've seen that as a neutral protein. I figure if I keep my guy away from warm proteins for now, hopefully he'll be okay. He stared probiotics just a week ago and I think he feels better.
It sounds like a lot to introduce. I think you're smart to start slowly, also so you can assess how Sebastian does with each one.
I used to be into Chinese martial arts and Qi is talked about a lot in martial arts, my teacher was really into it. They even have human hospitals in China that specialize in Qi, for humans it's a health system called Qigong which is also part of martial arts. In martial arts it's a system that includes meditation so someone can concentrate and direct their life force.
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Awesome update. I am going to use some of the chinese medicine on DeeJay for her many issues. But we are introducing things slowly to her as not to overload her system.
I forget, did you give Sebastian Luxolite, or was that the other boys? I'm wondering if the montmorillonite clay in the Nature's Variety is doing anything.
I'm so sorry to hear this! Our prayers are going out for Sebastian and your family.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #576
Sebastian is still doing really well. I'm weaning him off the Metronidazole....we're down to 1/16 of a tablet twice daily (it's like a crumb). We started the Chinese meds on Sunday morning - only 1 drop of each per week until we reach the full dose. So far so good. Last night, I started him on a different "ultra potent" probiotic with more strains based on the TCM vet's advice. He'll get a high dose for two weeks, and then back down to standard.
I gave it to Sebastian a few times when he got diarrhea from raw. I don't know if there's enough of the clay in NV to help heal his gut and bind toxins...maybe.
I was wondering how Sebastian is doing. I read your posts from beginning to end and they sound so familiar. My boy Simon has been diagnosed with Pancreatitis and it has been such a roller coaster. This seems to have begun immediately after his brother/best friend died of lung cancer in December. You said you have lost weight because it is so stressful. When Simon has a good day, I have a good day. When he doesn't eat and acts like he does not feel well, I am a wreck. There is nothing worse right now then when he sniffs his food and then turns away. I have been considering Chinese medicine. I am looking forward to hearing how it has been working for Sebastian. Good thoughts to you.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #578
If you haven't already, start a food and med journal. I did this with my kitty and I was referring back to it all the time.
That's what my integrated vet said about Chinese herbs. He didn't use them too much on cats.
It took me a long time to finally get in touch with a few holistic vets, mainly due to the diffusion of funds and the fact that I was so completely overwhelmed with everything. Sebastian is now on two Chinese herbal medicines, and they are liquid. Chinese herbs are extremely bitter. I really don't see any way to give them to cats other than putting them in empty gel caps and pilling them. The thing with a liquid, however, is that it is in a water/alcohol base, so they dissolve the gel caps. I did an experiment and timed that I have 10 minutes after I put the drops in the gel caps before the gel cap starts dissolving and gets too soft. When it's time to refill the Chinese meds, I'll inquire about a powder form. Perhaps the liquid works better and that's why they sent me the liquid by default...
Anyway, he's been a very happy boy...playing, excited about food, and always showing his belly.Rarely have I seen him in the meatloaf position since he's been feeling well. I took a couple videos of him recently, but I'm avoiding YouTube like the plague.
So great to hear he's doing so well.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #580
Yes, I do have one! Well, I actually call it a "chart" because it's in calendar format - what meds/supplements he gets every day and how much, which new ones were started, what food he eats every day, what days he has fluids, behavioral notes, abnormal BMs, etc. I definitely wouldn't be able to keep it all straight if I didn't do this.
