Sebastian is Back at the Vet...Suspected Pancreatitis Again :(

[goholistic]

I was caught off guard this morning. Sebastian had been doing SO well, and things seemed normal when I woke up. I did not expect him walk away from his breakfast, proceed to vomit up whatever was in his stomach (including the meds I just gave him), and then not want to eat at all for the remainder of the morning. 

  It seems this is how it goes with pancreatitis. No warning.

I guess I jinxed him again. 

  I hope it doesn't last.

It is possible, however, that this was caused by stress. My neighbors are doing demo work and making quite a bit of noise (loud bangs, saws, drilling, etc.). He doesn't like this at all. I vaguely remember him not eating the last time they were making a bunch of noise next door.

He was sitting in the meatloaf position as I left for work. Dang. 

 

[jcat]

that it's a very temporary setback!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Keeping my fingers crossed that it's the stress of the noisy neighbors and not the dreaded pancreatitis rearing it's ugly head again. 

 

[catsinchicago]

Dang....I know how disappointing it is, they seem to go from rolling on their backs and showing their tummy to feeling terrible so quickly. Sending you and Sebastian good thoughts.

 

[ldg]

I'm sorry to hear about the setback - but it was great reading up to that point!

Don't mean to be a pest, but I'm highlighting this section from one of the links I posted in your thread about the protein rotation for allergies. It's regarding the role of leaky gut in pancreatitis:

CYCLE FOUR; HEPATIC STRESS

The liver of Leaky Gut patients works overtime to remove macromolecules and oxidize enteric toxins. Cytochrome P-450 mixed-function oxidase activity is induced and hepatic synthesis of free radicals increases. The results include damage to hepatocytes and the excretion of reactive by-products into bile, producing a toxic bile capable of damaging bile ducts and refluxing into the pancreas [4, 5]. In attempting to eliminate toxic oxidation products, the liver depletes its reserves of sulfur-containing amino acids [101]. These mechanisms have been most clearly demonstrated in ethanol-induced hepatic disease [47]. Sudduth [102] proposes that the initial insult is the ethanol-induced increase in gut permeability which creates hepatic endotoxemia. Endotoxemia can further increase permeability, alter hepatic metabolism, and stimulate hepatic synthesis of reactive species which are excreted in bile. This toxic bile, rich in free radicals, further damages the small-bowel mucosa, exacerbating hyperpermeability.

This is the article. http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

Especially with his allergies, I think addressing leaky gut should be considered.


One very quick method that within a few short weeks that is helping almost countless kitties at this point is S. boulardii. It is a yeast-based probiotic - a close relative of brewer's yeast. It is mentioned in the article.

Here is more information:

Saccharomyces boulardii effects on gastrointestinal diseases: http://www.horizonpress.com/cimb/v/v11/47.pdf

Review article: anti-inflammatory mechanisms of action of Saccharomyces boulardii: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2009.04102.x/pdf

Efficacy and safety of the probiotic Saccharomyces boulardii for the prevention and therapy of gastrointestinal disorders: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296087/pdf/10.1177_1756283X11428502.pdf

This article isn't about S. boulardii, it's about C. diff. But it was conducted at UC Davis veterinary, and one cat did not respond to metro and the owners couldn't afford vancomycin, so they administered S. boulardii. It cleared the C. diff. The point of including this link is ONLY to indicate the dose. 0.5g of S. boulardii. 0.5g is equivalent to 10 billion CFU. it is typically sold as 5 billion CFU capsules or 250mg caps (same dose). Cats with diarrhea are responding to 5 billion CFU split into two doses (AM and PM) almost overnight.

http://vdi.sagepub.com/content/11/1/50.full.pdf

 

[peaches08]

Hairballs, maybe?  I ask because it's worth ruling out and my IBS cats are vomiting hair pretty badly right now.  The grocery store clerk looked at me funny when I bought every bag they had of hairball treats.  I just responded, "You don't wanna know."

 

[ldg]

Sorry for the sidebar here, but peaches08 I definitely recommend a hairball treatment otto used: Vets Best Hairball Relief. I order from Amazon. It has slippery elm bark powder and psyllium as the main ingredients. Egg yolks and the egg yolk lecithin are NOT enough for Lazlo with his impaired GI system this shedding season. I tried this Vets Best stuff because it has no petroleum jelly or mineral oil - and IT IS WORKING. It really bulks up the stool, but he is now passing all that hair, knock wood.

 

[peaches08]

I just may give that a try. Thanks!

 

[goholistic]

Thanks all. The reason he threw up could be many things - the pancreatitis, constipation, hairballs. He has been grooming a lot and will start shedding. Too bad those Vet's Best hairball tabs have chicken in it, or else I'd try them for Sebastian. For now, no chicken.  

  Also, when I gave him the Chinese meds that morning, the gel cap wasn't completely closed, meaning it didn't click into place. It was too full. I knew that it hadn't closed, but thought it would be okay. It could have come apart too quickly in his stomach and the Chinese meds could have made him vomit. Just theorizing. 

My bf thinks this is what happened, coupled with the stress of the neighbors. After that incident, Sebastian has decided he will no longer eat that food (that he threw up). We finally landed on something else after a few more tries at something different over the weekend.

Thanks for the information @LDG. Sebastian has been on s. boulardii since December. I use Thorne Research Sacro-B because it has no fillers. We started out with a loading dose (5 billion daily), and then went to the maintenance dose (2.5 billion daily).

FYI...and I'm not sure how this information fits into anything...but Sebastian doesn't have diarrhea. Never has. Other than on three occasions that I can remember, all related to a food change. In fact, his stools are quite dry, even on an all-wet diet and 100 ml of sub-q fluids every other day. This information was very important to the TCM vet as it helped her come to the conclusion of Sebastian having a "dry heat" rather than a "damp heat" (which is more common) and giving him the proper Chinese meds. Giving him remedies meant for damp heat could have been disastrous.

 

[goholistic]

Sebastian is officially off metronidazole.  

  And we've added quercetin. It's a pain to work with. It's very yellow and stains anything it touches, and the powder is not uniform. But there is a lot of promise with quercetin to protect his pancreas based on human studies. 

Also, the latest in my research:  thymoquinone (nigella sativa seed extract)

Effect of thymoquinone on ethanol and high fat diet induced chronic pancreatitis

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/16552/1/IJEB 51(4) 292-302.pdf

Anti-inflammatory effects of the Nigella sativa seed extract, thymoquinone, in pancreatic cancer cells

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2742606/

Thymoquinone inhibits the development of pancreatic cancer

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2009/04/20/48491.aspx

Thymoquinone: potential cure for inflammatory disorders and cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005518

There are many other links/studies on the web. I will discuss thymoquinone with the TCM vet when I set up another phone consult.

 

[donnajean]

Good for him !!!!!

I was just researching Quercetin last week looking for Boo a natural alternative for his allergies .

What brand and how much do you give him ? I was reading that Bromelain with quercetin helps  .

Right now Boo is getting daily Power Dophilus by Country Life, Curcuvet by Thorne Research and SEB on occasion.

He is still on the Royal canin duck & pea canned and Natural balance LID duck & pea.

If you don't recall Boo has Probable IBD and allergies, he also had one episode of pancreatitis before he was diagnosed with IBD.

Here's to many more good days ahead !!

 

[goholistic]

 
Good for him !!!!!

I was just researching Quercetin last week looking for Boo a natural alternative for his allergies .

What brand and how much do you give him ? I was reading that Bromelain with quercetin helps  .

Thanks @DonnaJean!  There are a lot of human studies regarding quercetin and it's positive affect on the pancreas. It is for this reason that the TCM vet I am working with chose this supplement for Sebastian and his chronic pancreatitis. This is not one of the more common supplements we talk about frequently here on the TCS (like probiotics or fish oil, for example), and there are some concerns with quercetin interfering with thyroid function (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24447974) and possible stress on the kidneys (see: http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/3/423.abstract). For these reasons, I do not feel comfortable providing dosage information.

 

[donnajean]

I understand.... I just thought it would be something to consider for Boo and I had been reading about it but there is not a pet Quercetin.

I have noticed in some pet supplements Quercetin is included (for immune support)

I have also been reading about grape seed extract, has similar medicinal properties  by Pet Naturals of Vermont called Antiox-10 .

Thanks

 

[goholistic]

 
I understand.... I just thought it would be something to consider for Boo and I had been reading about it but there is not a pet Quercetin.

I have noticed in some pet supplements Quercetin is included (for immune support)

I have also been reading about grape seed extract, has similar medicinal properties  by Pet Naturals of Vermont called Antiox-10 .

Thanks

I know.  

  And I understand, too. Trust me. I have a whole list of "supplements to try" in a spreadsheet that I gathered from my research, some of which are really bizarre. I figured it's okay to keep a list, and I even ran it by the local holistic/homeopathic vet we went to and she's like, "What is all this stuff?!"  

   What's weird is that quercetin was never on my list and I didn't even know about it until the TCM vet mentioned it, which is why I think it is something more unique and specific to the cat's issues. Also on my "supplements to try" list is VetriScience Cell Advance 440, which IS a pet product that you could run by your vet. It contains a small amount of quercetin. I take things slow with Sebastian and, at this point, I'm in no rush to add this since he seems to be doing well. Grape seed extract never made it to my list, either, but I can't remember why. I know I've read lots about it. Maybe it was because the one I was looking at (VetriScience Antiox 100) contains rice flour.

I've always been careful about immune boosters with Sebastian. With a chronic inflammatory condition, such as his pancreatitis, I don't want to send his immune system into overdrive. If his body sees the pancreas as a "foreign object" his immune system could attack it. Therefore, I want to modulate it...keep it steady.

 

[goholistic]

I'm finding a lot of resources and studies stating that selenium is a good antioxidant for feline pancreatitis. I will have to pick the TCM vet's brain about this, as well.

We've been going strong and steady with the current regime, so if there are other pancreatitis-fighters out there, I think we're ready. 

 

[goholistic]

On Wednesday night, Sebastian vomited twice. It was very dark and one of the spots had a tiny hairball. He hasn't felt 100% since. I feel partly to blame, as I worked very late that night (until midnight) and he was late getting his medicine and late getting fed.

I'm also nervous about "hairball season". We haven't yet cycled through a full year with this pancreatitis, and this is our first spring with it. I'm just going to have to try to brush him every day.

By the way, for those just tuning in, you might be thinking, "So what?! Cats vomit every once in awhile." With a cat with chronic pancreatitis, even a one time occurrence of vomiting makes for a very nervous mommy. 

On a positive note, prior to this vomiting episode, he was doing really well. In fact, he's turning into a fatty and wants nothing more than to eat everything in sight and try to steal the other cats' food. The food rotation is going well so far, and the rash in his ear hasn't returned since eliminating guar gum from his diet.

 

[abbyntim]

 
On Wednesday night, Sebastian vomited twice. It was very dark and one of the spots had a tiny hairball. He hasn't felt 100% since. I feel partly to blame, as I worked very late that night (until midnight) and he was late getting his medicine and late getting fed.

I'm also nervous about "hairball season". We haven't yet cycled through a full year with this pancreatitis, and this is our first spring with it. I'm just going to have to try to brush him every day.

By the way, for those just tuning in, you might be thinking, "So what?! Cats vomit every once in awhile." With a cat with chronic pancreatitis, even a one time occurrence of vomiting makes for a very nervous mommy. 

On a positive note, prior to this vomiting episode, he was doing really well. In fact, he's turning into a fatty and wants nothing more than to eat everything in sight and try to steal the other cats' food. The food rotation is going well so far, and the rash in his ear hasn't returned since eliminating guar gum from his diet.

Oh, no! I am so sorry to read this!

You know from reading my new post tonight that I totally get the vomit thing and I am a wreck because Tim vomited tonight. I don't know what I'm dealing with regarding him and this reminds me of three months ago when this all began. Prior to this afternoon, he was doing so well. How quickly things can change. I understand completely.

I have been stressed about working late and getting home to feed Tim and Abby. We purchased an automatic feeder that has ice packs. I'm not super thrilled with it and the few times I've used it, the cats don't even think to go to the kitchen looking for food as they are now so conditioned to being fed by whoever is the first to arrive home. I try to get home no later than 6:30 so they don't go too long without food. I am lucky I can work from home in the evenings, if necessary, but it's still stressful. I am considering using it more, even when I expect to get home on time, just to get them used to it.

Glad you've figured out the source of the rash. Sorry it's something as common as guar gum!

 

[peaches08]

I'm glad to hear that you finally found an ingredient that you know to avoid and that he's eating well!  Sorry about the vomiting and yes, I understand the fears that vomiting brings. 

I've had a lot of patients with pancreatitis lately...odd.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

  Well, let's just hope it really was "just" caused by the hair, and not the beginning of a new cycle

.  Have you thought about giving him a Lion's cut for the summer, just to cut down on possible hairballs, if he's prone to them?  I know in our house, brushing never really seems to help with shedding, even being fed raw, so I would think the only thing that might really cut down on it would be a haircut

, unless he grooms the other two, in which case they would ALL need one.

Just a thought.

 

[jcat]

I'm sorry he's vomiting again and hope it really is a hairball. It's great that you pinpointed the guar gum as the cause of the rash, though.