Sassy - 17yr Old Cat - Appetite Issue (early Ckd)

[FeebysOwner]

Again, just my cat lover lay person opinion - I would try the Mirtazapine first and see what happens. If she improves on that just alone, all the better - less meds. Why give her the nausea and acid reflux since neither of those seem to be needed right now? If she starts eating more and she throws up food again, maybe then you would want to add them.

Edited: Just to throw out another thought - if you can, time permitting, what about trying to feed her smaller amounts more times in a day. So, if she eats 2 meals a day, give her the same overall amount you want her to eat, but make it 3-4 times a day?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Again, just my cat lover lay person opinion - I would try the Mirtazapine first and see what happens. If she improves on that just alone, all the better - less meds. Why give her the nausea and acid reflux since neither of those seem to be needed right now? If she starts eating more and she throws up food again, maybe then you would want to add them.

Edited: Just to throw out another thought - if you can, time permitting, what about trying to feed her smaller amounts more times in a day. So, if she eats 2 meals a day, give her the same overall amount you want her to eat, but make it 3-4 times a day?

Since I fear her meowing over night and staying awake, I will try the Mirtazapine tomorrow morning. Since these were chopped in half (2mg) to make into 1Mg, would that lesser amount still stimulate the appetite or be too weak?

She normally eats 3 times. She would normally eat a full 3oz. can breakfast before I go work, then after work about a spoonful or so of dry food, then her dinner few hours later half of a 5.5oz can with some dry food. On days im home I'd feed her 3 meals. She'd eat now but just not as much. The other thing I noticed is that before, she would start eating say her prime fillets, she start like chewin on it right aaway and bite into her food. Now a days shes like starting off slowly...just licks the juice first and then slowly would start to take bite of the chunks of food or start biting. Other times like this morning, she just lucks her food around and then just basically spreads it evenly in circular motion all around her bowl. Not sure if that means anything.

 

[Jem]

I'll admit I did not read every word on this thread so forgive me if I'm asking something that has already been discussed.

At what stage is she in right now?
When my boy had CKD, sub-Q fluids is what kept him eating and less nauseated.
At first we would only have to give him some for a few days, then nothing for a few months. Then for a couple of weeks, then nothing. Eventually as the disease progressed, we were giving him fluids daily, but we kept our boy going for 4 years after diagnosis (stage 3), and even over year in end stage.
I can't stress enough how the fluids were THE thing that kept him eating.

 

[miguel99nyc]

I'll admit I did not read every word on this thread so forgive me if I'm asking something that has already been discussed.

At what stage is she in right now?
When my boy had CKD, sub-Q fluids is what kept him eating and less nauseated.
At first we would only have to give him some for a few days, then nothing for a few months. Then for a couple of weeks, then nothing. Eventually as the disease progressed, we were giving him fluids daily, but we kept our boy going for 4 years after diagnosis (stage 3), and even over year in end stage.
I can't stress enough how the fluids were THE thing that kept him eating.

Well not sure what stage? I attached her blood work over the past two years and everything still in normal range? And per the Tanya website, with her creatine being 2.1 now (was 2.0 while back),still stage 2?

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am glad someone else has come along so you don't have to rely strictly on me!

Since these were chopped in half (2mg) to make into 1Mg, would that lesser amount still stimulate the appetite or be too weak?

Try it and see. Sure it is a lesser dose so yes it won't be as potent, but it will also help to minimize the side effects she experienced before.

 

[Kflowers]

You need to ask the vet to take the x-rays to look for the arthritis, despite what some vets think they can't always tell without an x-ray. I've seen cats who limp not limp at all at the vet's. It's a survival trait. If she does have arthritis there are inexpensive over
the counter medicines which will make her feel better. You can ask your vet about that too.

 

[Jem]

Even at stage 2, she may benefit from a good dose of fluids for a couple of days. I would talk to the vet about sub-Q fluids.
He may not feel it necessary "this early", but a few days of fluids to get her hydrated and her kidneys flushed can only benefit her (IMO).

And one other thing to consider, is when kitty is nauseous, they will often associate their nausea to their food, which will cause them to refuse that food at the next meal. With my boy, I rotated his food often. I had 5 different wet foods and 3 different dry foods for him.

 

[miguel99nyc]

You need to ask the vet to take the x-rays to look for the arthritis, despite what some vets think they can't always tell without an x-ray. I've seen cats who limp not limp at all at the vet's. It's a survival trait. If she does have arthritis there are inexpensive over
the counter medicines which will make her feel better. You can ask your vet about that too.

Okay but we did Xray her back in January and he saw nothing. I suppose I can ask him to look at it again? But if so, how could that associate with her appetite?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Even at stage 2, she may benefit from a good dose of fluids for a couple of days. I would talk to the vet about sub-Q fluids.
He may not feel it necessary "this early", but a few days of fluids to get her hydrated and her kidneys flushed can only benefit her (IMO).

And one other thing to consider, is when kitty is nauseous, they will often associate their nausea to their food, which will cause them to refuse that food at the next meal. With my boy, I rotated his food often. I had 5 different wet foods and 3 different dry foods for him.

Oh yeah, I literally have like...6-7 different flavored cans that I'm desparately trying to make her eat (all which she used to like) so...I am trying.

 

[Kflowers]

If the arthritis is in her neck or jaw it will directly affect her eating. If in another place, her elbows or knees crouching down to eat might be hard. And sometimes pain just kills your appetite. And it's not myth the weather does make arthritis worse. Not just when a storm is coming but sometimes just a front coming through will do it. That was how our vet began to suspect our cat, age less than one year, had arthritis.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Jem , can you go back and read the test results in the very first post? Sorry to ask you, but they seem very reasonable to me and very little increase in anything.

 

[Kflowers]

Have you considered getting a second opinion? This doesn't sound behavioral to me, it sounds very physical.

 

[Jem]

I had a look at the blood tests, and although I'm NOT an expert by any means. The high levels of Urea Nitrogen and high levels of calcium will BOTH cause loss of appetite, nausea, digestive issues.
So although the disease progression may not seem to have changed much, her ability to flush toxins from her system is still compromised.
Has she been urinating the same as before? Have you noticed her urination output has increased lately?

 

[jefferd18]

Many things can lead to gagging, masses in the throat, bad teeth, or even intense pain that could come from something like arthritis. Have you tried pain and/or anti-nausea medicine?

 

[Jem]

My boy "crashed" several times over the course of his CKD, and it did NOT always mean that his kidneys "moved into the next stage". It's a slow, steady build up until it's just too much and he feels sick. Toby crashed 3 times, all the while staying in stage 3, the creatinine/BUN are not the only things to consider when it comes to the how your cat will feel as the disease progresses. There has also been some new research into the whole "staging" of CKD. One of the vets (recently graduated) at my vets clinic, who did see Toby a couple of times, explained to me about how they are being taught more about looking a the whole and not just the creatinine/BUN. So the high levels in your kitties tests, is still concerning to me, I really think fluids would help at this point to flush the toxicity in her body.

 

[miguel99nyc]

If the arthritis is in her neck or jaw it will directly affect her eating. If in another place, her elbows or knees crouching down to eat might be hard. And sometimes pain just kills your appetite. And it's not myth the weather does make arthritis worse. Not just when a storm is coming but sometimes just a front coming through will do it. That was how our vet began to suspect our cat, age less than one year, had arthritis.

I could ask our vet to check the January 2019 Xray hes done...although probably will suggest to do another one.

 

[miguel99nyc]

I had a look at the blood tests, and although I'm NOT an expert by any means. The high levels of Urea Nitrogen and high levels of calcium will BOTH cause loss of appetite, nausea, digestive issues.
So although the disease progression may not seem to have changed much, her ability to flush toxins from her system is still compromised.
Has she been urinating the same as before? Have you noticed her urination output has increased lately?

Well she's been urinating alot for the past few years...haven't noticed her urinating more say NOW then in year past or so. It's been about the same. So if you think the Urea Nitrogen being 1 pt higher then normal and Calcium as well, wouldn't the vet point that out and try to tackle that?

 

[miguel99nyc]

My boy "crashed" several times over the course of his CKD, and it did NOT always mean that his kidneys "moved into the next stage". It's a slow, steady build up until it's just too much and he feels sick. Toby crashed 3 times, all the while staying in stage 3, the creatinine/BUN are not the only things to consider when it comes to the how your cat will feel as the disease progresses. There has also been some new research into the whole "staging" of CKD. One of the vets (recently graduated) at my vets clinic, who did see Toby a couple of times, explained to me about how they are being taught more about looking a the whole and not just the creatinine/BUN. So the high levels in your kitties tests, is still concerning to me, I really think fluids would help at this point to flush the toxicity in her body.

aww man, so the levels are then bit high? I had hoped they kinda remained stable? How does one go about reducing calcium?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Many things can lead to gagging, masses in the throat, bad teeth, or even intense pain that could come from something like arthritis. Have you tried pain and/or anti-nausea medicine?

no I havent. She was asking for food like normal this eveing and ate little more. Still havent tried the mirtazapine but will tomorrow morning.

 

[miguel99nyc]

So I've given her Mirtazapine her half of 2mg pill about an hour ago or so. Maybe because its weaker will take slightly longer to take effect? Last time I gave her the 2mg and I believe it just made her hungrier like right away almost within an hour.

She didnt want to eat as much this morning again...and just getting me more concerned. Im hoping this Mirtazapine will help her eat later today at least something