Oh, I was just wondering about that myself. Any chance of an update
BangkokKittens
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Thanks. I definitely won't let them out at all until they are neutered. I will probably plan to keep them as mostly indoor cats and have them roam around the house, but I do expect that they will be able to escape occasionally.This is a positive update!
It’s normal for mom to push the kittens away once they are a certain age. She is encouraging them to leave the nest. There also isn’t a mother/child bond like what you are looking for.
In terms of letting the kittens outside, I would wait. They are young and it’s dangerous for any cat to be outside, let alone those who don’t have their wits about them. Usually 9 months and spayed/neutered, and vaccinated is the recommendation.
I will also start following PAWS. My plan is to always feed them. I do want to keep them as semi-pets and so will make sure they get regular meals and always have dry food and water. Their home base will be the porch where they stayed before I trapped them (now 3 weeks ago today!)The diarrhea could be anything from parasites to too much moisture in their food. They are going to a vet next week and will probably get treated for parasites. I started following PAWS Bangkok IG, they are so wonderful!
I think your plans are just perfect. They will all most likely stay close to your home after release.
You should feel very good about all you have done.
My only advice to you is to keep providing food and water after you release them so they do stay close. We don't want to see them poisoned.
Four kittens and 1 adult, right. You might actually need another litter box. The recommendation is 1 box per cat, plus one. So that would mean 6 for you, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. Nevertheless 2 litter boxes will certainly have to be changed often with 5 felines.One issue, although a luxury one, is that I am amazed by how much they eat and consequently defecate. I have two litter boxes in their room, which I need to clean daily and change the litter every four days or so. I have to confess, that I am looking forward to the time when nature is their bathroom!
Thanks. That is very helpful. I have never had cats, so don't have much perspective. I may need to add litter boxes.Thanks for the update. And pictures. Sounds like things are going well.
Four kittens and 1 adult, right. You might actually need another litter box. The recommendation is 1 box per cat, plus one. So that would mean 6 for you, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. Nevertheless 2 litter boxes will certainly have to be changed often with 5 felines.
I have one adult female and clean the litter box twice a day. I use clumping litter, so rarely dump and replace all the litter, instead, just add more when it gets low.
That's exactly what I do. I remove the waste clumps twice a day, and add more litter when it gets low.If I could just clean and pour new stuff on top, at least part of the time, that would make my life easier!
They most likely will hang out together. All of my neuters play and sleep together outside and they do not wander far from home. I will get pictures to show you.
Great. Thanks. I do think that is exactly what they will do. They seem inseparable!
They need to be neutered/spayed. If you let them out now they will come back on their own for food, they will choose to sleep indoors when the weather outside is uncomfortable. But the females can get pregnant at 4 months. I think it doesn't happen a lot but it can happen so I would keep them in until they have surgery.Here is one more big update and a fairly important question.
Two nights ago, just as I was going to bed, the mother cat was sitting outside and the kittens were all at the door looking at her and they were calling back and forth. So, I let her in and went to sleep.
When I woke up in the morning, I saw that one downstairs door had not been closed securely and they were able to push it open and escape. At this point, I looked out in my garden and saw them out there. Generally looking very happy and incredible cool frolicking around trees, perching up on things and chasing each other eagerly.
So, I left the door open and managed to lure a few back in with some food, but before I could act, the mother came back and carted them all off. She ran up the old tree I had put in place to help her get up and down when the original kitten was trapped and they all followed her. She then gave then the complete tour and I watched them very happily follow here all over before finally winding up back on the porch and then vanishing with them for about 12 hours.
I then set the trap room up again and baited it and within 45 minutes has them all locked away again. I now have them all back in the open in the house and all of the doors completely locked! They were all out for between 15-20 hours.
The mother now seems to have completely bonded and there is no awkwardness. She is also doing some maternal-looking things like fake biting them on the back of the neck and pushing them down with her paw, which they readily accept.
She is now also playing with them for the first time ever. Earlier she seemed to have gotten to the point where they could sleep next to each other and chopped back and forth, but today is the first time I am seeing them play as a group, with her a part of it.
One big impression that I did get, and part of the reason that I am writing this, is that they seemed to love being outside. They seemed to stand more erect, moved more confidently and played like I had never seen before. I have never seem them look that happy and free! This has led me to wonder about the best strategy for getting them neutered and released.
I think they are probably now three months old or more as they seemed to be at least two months when I trapped them 24 days ago. I had been keeping them inside with the primary strategy of letting them get a bit older before surgery, but also to socialize them a little more. However, I am now wondering if it is worth the wait and whether it is cruel to keep them locked up after seeing how much they enjoyed being out.
I think they might continue to socialize a bit even if they were outside - and at the end of the day, I am not expecting to be cuddling with them that much.
I should also emphasize that I think my house is a cat paradise. I have a decent sized yard in front of the house that wraps around to the back. The house itself is one of a group of ten houses connected by a small little land with no real traffic. There are several other cats around. And then they can easily climb back up to the second floor where they spent their youth and have that porch and a maze of rooftops.
However, despite how ideal it is there are other cats, including toms and at four months maybe they aren’t ready for the real world (although I think their mother managed to survive and rear them successful and she couldn’t have been much more than six months old when she had them.
So, my question is, what do you all think I should do:
- One day this week take them all to the vet for their operations, keep them indoors for a week or so to recover, then just open the window in the room and let the roam, or
- Wait a bit longer?
I agree with you completely. Cats belong outside and they are happier being outside. When they are indoors they are stifled and it can be stressful for them. They want to hunt and climb trees. They want to lay in the sun and dig in the dirt. It isn't the safest and their life expectancy will be shorter but I often wonder what is the value of a miserable life.Oops. Posted that earlier. Here are two more cat photos and a brief explanation:
In the post above, the first and third photos are of the mother and cat gang post escape. The first one iOS from when she led them back around to show them the porch and where they had been held.
The second, fifth and the third on in this post are the garden area where they could live and play. This is where they were going crazy yesterday. Chasing each other around, climbing trees and perching photogenically on just about every thing.
The fourth photo is the ramp up to the trap room. When I free them, I would just plan to open the window and let them come and go for a few days before finally shutting the window.
The photos of the kittens are from the trap room. As I mentioned, they seem super healthy and are doing great. But they did all just huddle up on top of the cabinet most of the time, coming down to eat and play. While I am sure the is fine, it really does now seem like a prison (although a nice big one) compared to the garden. And they seem subdued indoors versus ecstatic outside, although I do realize that if they lived in the garden, they would rest and look subdued there sometimes too!
I don't plan to ever let them play outside again before getting neutered. The great escape was not planned and I now check every door very carefully before I free then inside the house and am very careful when I leave, but there is always a risk. Perhaps the worst thing that could happen would be if one sneakily escaped and I didn't notice for a while. When they are all out downstairs, it is impossible to find them all at times. My guess is that it would stick around nearby and I could lure it back in, but there would be risk.I agree with you completely. Cats belong outside and they are happier being outside. When they are indoors they are stifled and it can be stressful for them. They want to hunt and climb trees. They want to lay in the sun and dig in the dirt. It isn't the safest and their life expectancy will be shorter but I often wonder what is the value of a miserable life.
All life has value but I think people extend life to save themselves from sorrow and they don't always consider the feelings of others while they do it.
The garden area is beautiful. It makes me think of the small wooded area behind my house where the outside cats often hunt and live.
I feel strongly that you should do the neuter as soon as you can so they can go back to enjoying life outside. If you let them play outside from time to time before then they could go back to being standoffish. Then you could have a problem. If one strays from the pack and goes feral it still might use your home as it's own home. A male cat will bring a female cat to be fed and then there would be more cats.