Rescuing Feral Kitten In Bangkok

[BangkokKittens]

After a frustrating day or two, I have some very good news to report! I have captured all four kittens in a fairly easy process in the trap room.

I didn't see them at all today and in the morning even the mother looked like she had to spend a lot of time looking for them, without success. I think someone in the next building has been feeding them during the day, but maybe not at night.

This evening at around 6pm I left food out, but then had to meet a friend for a quick dinner at 8pm, at which point the food had been untouched. However, late in the dinner, I check the KittyCam on my phone and saw that someone had cleaned it out. I had left six little dishes around and all were empty, so I thought it would be them. Then a little after I got home, I heard sounds and saw them all back on the porch.

So, I went in to feed them and immediately saw one at the window. Pretty soon all four were there and I was able to gently pull the window shut. Although the trapping was not traumatic, they did try to climb up to the window to escape, but I also tied a cord to the box they use to reach it and once I dragged it away, they can't get up there any more.

Within a few minutes of the trapping, they resumed eating the food, so they don't seem to be in a panic. I am watching them on the camera and at least one seems to be playing. In fact they seemed to have eaten all of the food and were sniffing around eagerly at old empty dishes.

It is not late (Midnight) and I plan to sleep soon, so I just opened the door and snuck in two larger bowls of food, which did send them scattering in a panic. But I thought it would be better to give them one small scare and ensure that they aren't hungry. I know kittens have a pretty short meal cycle. They are already back to just mulling around and have started to eat the food.

My plan now is to just try to gradually get them used to me. Probably just feeding then and spending a few short minutes in there a few times tomorrow, then gradually extend that as they get comfortable.

Photo is kittens eating after capture. Thanks to everyone for all of your good advice. I was afraid I had let you all down and missed my chance. But am now very happy to have them contained and convinced the TNR is the best option for them! And the place that they will have to live will be near ideal.

I'll report back on the socialization as it progresses

 

[Norachan]

Oh, well done!

 

[BangkokKittens]

I also grabbed the Mom this morning by hand (with long thick leather gloves) and pretty easily got her into a cat carrier. She was sitting outside crying and the kittens all have been performing impressive climbing feats trying to get out.

She does (did?) trust me and came for food and petting which enables me to catch her. I have called a pretty fancy cat hospital who are sending. car over to pick her up. I would rather spend a bit more money and get this done quickly and easily. I don't want her to have to sit in the carrier any longer than necessary.

I think my plan may be to send her off now, then a day before she is ready to come back, send the kittens and have them all come home at the same time. Then let them recover as long as needed in the room, then release.

The photo below shows how the four kittens were all climbing my mosquito nets and sitting top in a high perch where they could see Mom on the ramp. They were all crying for each other and no one seemed happy. I do feel pangs of guilt when I look in her eyes, but do know this is right thing to do, partially thanks to all of you!

 

[BangkokKittens]

Two more quick questions:

1) I sent the Mom this morning to a very fancy pet hospital. They gave me a choice of taking her back to recover here as soon as the sutures are removed, which seems like it could be tomorrow. Or letting her recover for a week there. It seems from what I have heard here that the standard period at the vet is a week. Is there anything wrong or dangerous about bring her here early? Especially with the kittens around? On the one hand it seems like it would be great for all of them to have her back so soon (and I understand she would still nurse). On the other I don't want any health risks

2) The hospital said they recommend neutering the kittens at around 4-5 months old. I am guessing they are two months now. That would mean that I earth keep then in that room (with or without Mom) or release them and hope they come back, which seems risky if the haven't been neutered. I have doe a tiny bit of research and see that traditionally 6 months has been the recommended time, but that it can be done much earlier. I could probably wait a month or so, but it might be hard to do much longer than that and I might risk and escape. What do you all think?

Thanks

 

[BangkokKittens]

They also all seem to want to sit up at the top of the window or on a near by cabinet. At first they went up on the window by climbing the mosquito net on the window and then were scared to get down, so I created a bridge to the cabinet and a little staircase up on the other side.

I assume this is fine and would rather have them up in the air than huddling in some crevice. They seem fairly comfortable up there and don't move when I go in the room, although they do look frightened.

Any thoughts?

 

[talkingpeanut]

Wow! This is a great story and rescue mission.

Definitely don’t release the kittens before they’ve gotten the medical attention they need. I would get the vet to spay/neuter at 3 months or so. That way they won’t have to wait as long, and you’re right to worry about escape. Females can get pregnant at 4 months, so it’s inadvisable to wait anyway.

I would bring Mom back home to recover with the kittens. It will be nice for them to be together, and you can watch over her as she recovers.

 

[Norachan]

I think it would be fine to have Mum back tomorrow. Here in Japan vets only keep the cat in over night. As she is going to be kept indoors and you can monitor her recovery there is no need to leave her at the clinic for a week. As long as she continues to eat and doesn't pull out her stitches (Unlikely) she will be fine.

Spaying And Neutering - What To Look For After Surgery

I think your kittens are closer to three months old. They can be fixed as soon as they weigh 2 lbs/1 kilo. If it were me I think I'd give it a week or so and then try to take the largest kitten in for a spay. You can judge by that one how old/heavy the others are.

They look quite content up there on that scaffold you've made for them. I guess they're comfortable up high, they must be used to that after scampering over roof tops the way you described. It's a really good idea, I think. My cats like to get up high and watch what I'm doing too. (Most of mine are former feral cats)

You're doing such a great job with them all.

 

[dahli6]

The mother is still nursing so bring her home after surgery. Her milk will get really full and even after spay she should continue producing milk for as long as the babies nurse. She will still trust you, please don't worry.
I thought the vet there and maybe PAWS too, would wait to perform surgery on the kittens until they are 4 months old. I did not say specifically because I did not know for sure.
Add another litter box at least one. Maybe buy some cat toys. You should spend some time cleaning in the room every day and during that time it will be natural to rest in the room with them too. Don't release the kittens before they have surgery.
You are doing a wonderful thing. Now that they are inside do not be shy with them.

 

[rubysmama]

I've been reading this thread. Congratulations on getting the mother and kittens inside. And thanks for all you're doing for them.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thank you all for the advice and guidance, which has been very helpful. Here is an update and a few more questions.

So today a 6pm, the vet sent Mom back and we rushed excitedly to reunite her with her kittens. I hadn't realized that she would come back with a cone on her head, but probably should have. Unfortunately, however, she also managed to get a paw through the cone. When we put her in the room, initially she cried a bit and would not come out of the cage. The she did, the stuck paw made it hard for her to do anything and she flopped around a bit, so we had to rush in and free her paw.

Once we did that gradually wandered around, ate a lot of food, tried to get the cone off and has now gone to sleep. At one point I went and to put food down and was able to pet her quite a bit.

However, it is now 8pm, she has been in the room for two hours and the kittens are nowhere to be seen. When she first entered the room, she peered under the dresser where at least one was hiding and stared a bit. Later, two came out very briefly. One stayed way in the back, but the one under the dresser came out fore a sustained period and looked at her.

However, for the last 30 minutes, she has been sleeping and they have been hiding. It is evening mealtime, there is food out and they must be hungry, but nothing.

It is a bit frustrating as I had expected joy and she is full of milk for them. But more importantly, I am now worried that the bond is broken or that the won't recognize each other. I can watch them for most of the night and make sure nothing goes wrong. If there is no progress by the end of the night and I need to sleep, I will probably move her into another room for the night and start over in the morning.

The attached photo shows what the scene has looked like for 30 minutes. She is sleeping in front of the beanbag chair, there is food out for them, but the kittens are completely in hiding.

She has only been gone for 36 hours, so things can't have changed that much and I don't think they could have forgotten each other.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thank you very much!

 

[dahlia]

The mom might smell funny to them. I had to leave one of my cats at the vet for most of the day once and when I brought him home, my other two cats hissed at him and wanted nothing to do with him. It took a day or so of me doing scent exchange (brushing them all with the same brush)before they accepted him again. Is there anyway you can rub something that has the kittens scent on it on the mom?

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thank you so much for this useful advise. I do think that the issue is her smell, although I also wonder if she doesn't know what to do in an injured state. Oddly, at one point, when I left the door open, she moved pretty quickly to try to leave (she is easy to catch with the cone), which makes me wonder what she is thinking.

I can't get near the kittens, but she is buddy in my hands. I can take hand towels and rub, rub, rub. So, I took four towels, petted the heck out of her (and got a little purr) and the left them near the kittens.

I also fed the kittens up above on the cabinet and set up a second kitty litter. For a long time she was lying near the main litter and so they wouldn't go near it.

It has now been a hour since the rubbing began and there seems to be important, if small progress. The kittens have now come down from the cabinet, conducted a 10. minute investigation of the kitty litter, and smelled where she was sitting before. Where earlier, they were in terror and wouldn't stay on the ground comfortably, they now will get fairly close to her - one was within two feet. She has also now walked over near the cabinet, under which at least one is hiding and for a while stared under there, although she is now sleeping in front of it.

It is midnight now, so I will go to bed. I could take her out of the room and have her sleep with me, or in another room, but think I will leave her. They kittens are finally appearing curious and there has been no indication of hostility.

I hope to wake up in the morning and find out they are all a happy family.

In some other good news, she allows me to vigorously pet her, pick her up and even carry her around. She is basically calling out "I want to be a house cat!". So whatever else happens, I know she is sticking around.

The attached photo is as close as a kitten has gotten to her. But that is a massive improvement over just an hour ago!

 

[rubysmama]

Maybe the kittens are scared of the cone of shame. How long do you have to leave it on?

 

[BangkokKittens]

So, there was very little progress overnight. She has jumped up on the aircon or on a shelf to stay above the ground (which she should have to do with her wound) and they are keeping their distance.

The kittens are very agitated and hostile, so I may have set things back with them as well.

I am going to remove her from the room and wait until the cone comes off. The hospital said to send her back Sunday.

 

[BangkokKittens]

It's been a pretty tough day today watching and trying to repair the damage from yesterday. I did move Mom out of the room and she is now in a room of her own, where she seems to mope about crying, although that my just be what happens when they have post-surgery recovery and the cone of shame. She is super sweet and loves a good petting session. I have been trying to sit in her room to keep her company. It is heartbreaking to sit in the room and pet her shaved stomach, fat with milk, when her babies are just feet away rejecting her.

Late this morning, I went in to feed the kittens but they were nowhere to be found. I had heard a noise when I went in the room and there was no real way they could escape, but even after 15 minutes, they didn't come out for the food. My helpful neighbor offered to look for them in the room (I has another meeting) and eventually found them all huddled in the front window, behind curtains, which I had tried to tape closed.

Later in the day the bigger two emerged and happily ate when I later fed them, but the order two stayed put. Just now 9pm, I went in and fed them again and the two big ones goggled down all the food, with no sign of the others. But when I out more out, first one, then the other did come out to eat.

I called the hospital to pick of Mom today, but their cars were full (and it is on the other side of town and probably a very long round trip on a Friday night. So they are coming tomorrow to pick her back up and nurse her to recovery there. I will wait and decide what to do when she gets back.

I would love to think that if I put her back in the room when she is feeling better and is cone-free they will recognize her, but who knows. I have also considered trapping one or two kittens and introducing them first, but I don't really know why that would work.

On the bright side, she is one of the sweetest and most affectionate cats I have ever seen. I do think that once she recovers, she will be a very happy pet cat. I just hope I am heading in the right direction with the kittens too.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Can you try taking the cone off and reintroducing her to the babies?

 

[dahli6]

She is going back to recover at the hospital focus on getting the kittens comfortable with you.
When she comes back and has no cone things might be ok. Even if she stops making milk, she might start back up again after being reintroduced. Of course once the kittens are spayed too they can all be free and happy.
I still think you should spend some time just sitting in the kittens room reading or watching videos. I am so jealous you have access to Line tv.
The kittens would get used to you being in the room and their behavior would become more normal.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thank again to everyone for your help. I have just sent the Mom back to the hospital to recover and will try somehow to reintroduce her when she returns. A friend here also suggested that I remove the cone and try now, but I just can't do it.

I really think the time in the room together was traumatic and damaging for both sides. Poor Mom now just sits alone under the bed (see photo) in a spare room and only comes out reluctantly for food. That having been said, she is still just a lovely and sweet being. She tolerates handling really well (my neighbor had to help me give her pills) and just loves to be petted.

When the kittens were first trapped, it did seem like they would escape if they could, but otherwise seemed visibly happy and comfortable. They played frequently, came out of hiding for food quickly and spent a lot of time out in the open. It even seemed like they might be warming up to me in the first 36 hours.

But after the night with Mom, they tore open curtains that I had taped shut and now huddle in a ball in a tight dark back corner and only come out briefly for food. I am not even sure the two timid ones come out at all, although they must. If I put out two packets of food the two bold ones come out and eat everything, then retreat to the curtain lair. Only by putting far too much food in and leaving them until the first two are completely full, then waiting after that, can I have any confidence that the little ones eat at all.

I spent about an hour in the room today, and put food out after 15 minutes or so. The two bold ones come out and maybe even look at me curiously. But they return to behind the curtains quickly and the little ones won't emerge when I go in. So, it is hard to even feel like they are socializing when I am sitting 20 feet away and they barely know I am there.

Before the Mom episode they would all at eat with me in the room and even after eating would stay in the vicinity. So, I think I will bring Mom back when she is healed and then leave her by herself for a little while to get comfortable and restore her non-hospital smell if possible. If it doesn't look good pretty quickly, I think I will retrieve her and have her as a house cat roaming freely and hopefully being happy. I will then wait for the babies to get old enough for surgery, then when they return and recover, try again. That failing, I will try to socialize some more, then eventually park them back outside on my porch and feed them there.

Over time as they all become indoor outdoor cats, they will meet up with Mom and hopefully won't feel hostile. But I am open to all suggestions and ideas.

 

[dahli6]

Human intervention causes occasional problems.
I never suggested removing the cone because you are following the instructions of the vet. I have had dozens of cats spayed and used no cone, the cone and hospital smell probably frightened the kittens.
I can imagine you were feeling very anxious too.
Spend time with the kittens and when mom comes back don't interfere too much. But also don't distance yourself from them. Kittens growl and hiss when they are afraid but if they cone is gone and she can touch them properly they may respond to her familiar touch. It is very unlikely that any of them will hurt each other if you leave them all together so unless they are disturbing your household let mom stay in the room if she wants to even if the kittens are acting scared.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Human intervention causes occasional problems.
I never suggested removing the cone because you are following the instructions of the vet. I have had dozens of cats spayed and used no cone, the cone and hospital smell probably frightened the kittens.
I can imagine you were feeling very anxious too.
Spend time with the kittens and when mom comes back don't interfere too much. But also don't distance yourself from them. Kittens growl and hiss when they are afraid but if they cone is gone and she can touch them properly they may respond to her familiar touch. It is very unlikely that any of them will hurt each other if you leave them all together so unless they are disturbing your household let mom stay in the room if she wants to even if the kittens are acting scared.

Thanks. That's great advice. Mom went back to the hospital and it seemed to me that they improved after that. She was crying constantly and I think that may have been disconcerting.

I did go in the room a couple of times today, once with a broom and mop as it needed a good cleaning. The second time I lured them out from behind the curtains with food and then went in and opened one curtain and taped the other shut. They had been hiding back there all day and if I went into the room they couldn't see me. I also think that once they climbed up to the high ledge, it was tough to get down, so they just stayed there. I also opened the window, so there is now a cross draft, although that is probably more important to me than to them.

When the Mom came back last time, I put the carrier in the room with her in it. At first she just cried for a couple of minutes. Then she lurched forward, fell out and writhed around on the floor as she had managed to get a foot through the cone and so couldn't walk. That, combined with the cone, could easily have thrown them off.

The room they are in shares a bathroom with another room. When she comes back, I think I will open both rooms and stick her in the other one and just let them find each other naturally. I will probably also have her hang around for a few hours first so that she can get her own smell back.

I have been feeling horribly anxious as I was very hopeful about the reunion - and when the Mom was constantly crying I imagined her saying "You have destroyed my family and ruined my life". Luckily, whenever I touch her, she melts in my hands and I know that when she gets back, she at very least will be happy here.

Now I just have to work on the kittens a bit. But they already seem better. They were playing actively this morning and all came rushing out for their food. So, I do feel much better now!