Rescuing Feral Kitten In Bangkok

[BangkokKittens]

Here is a picture of the front windows. Before, the curtains were down and I had taped them shut, although at the time mostly to prevent escape. When the Mom was in there they managed to dig open a hole and they would crawl in and either sit at the bottom or climb up to the top ledge.

They are blackout curtains, which seemed to isolate them from the room and they started to spend almost all of their time there. So, I have now taped one window down and left the other pulled up, with the glass window open and the mosquito screen closed. These are old fashioned stainless steel mosquito screens so they can't cut through them. They have been climbing them for a week and haven't left a sign!

In the attached photo you can see the window, post opening with two kittens ruefully examining it. One did go up to there top ledge, but without a thick curtain in front quickly found it unappealing and jumped down. They now seem to have forgotten about it!

 

[BangkokKittens]

Oops. I pushed the wrong button

 

[dahli6]

No I am sure she did not think anything was destroyed at all. She was probably afraid at the hospital and happy to be home. The cone feels awkward and it interferes with their hearing too. It would also make it difficult to groom the kittens which is a big part of communication between mother and kitten.
Human is a human and cat is a cat. Mother cat probably does not connect you to what has happened at all. She was most likely crying because she was unhappy with the cone. Her unhappiness with the cone probably scared the kittens.
When she returns, let nature do as nature does.

 

[dahli6]

Here is a picture of the front windows. Before, the curtains were down and I had taped them shut, although at the time mostly to prevent escape. When the Mom was in there they managed to dig open a hole and they would crawl in and either sit at the bottom or climb up to the top ledge.

They are blackout curtains, which seemed to isolate them from the room and they started to spend almost all of their time there. So, I have now taped one window down and left the other pulled up, with the glass window open and the mosquito screen closed. These are old fashioned stainless steel mosquito screens so they can't cut through them. They have been climbing them for a week and haven't left a sign!

In the attached photo you can see the window, post opening with two kittens ruefully examining it. One did go up to there top ledge, but without a thick curtain in front quickly found it unappealing and jumped down. They now seem to have forgotten about it!

You should open the curtains. They need the sunshine and it would make them happy to look outside.
Kittens love to play with everything and exploring is part of a child's natural curiosity.
A recent litter of kittens loved to hide under a fireplace I have stored in my kennel shed. They would hide under it whenever I entered the building. I could trick them into showing themselves by using their mother's food call.

 

[BangkokKittens]

You should open the curtains. They need the sunshine and it would make them happy to look outside.
Kittens love to play with everything and exploring is part of a child's natural curiosity.
A recent litter of kittens loved to hide under a fireplace I have stored in my kennel shed. They would hide under it whenever I entered the building. I could trick them into showing themselves by using their mother's food call.

They always had the windows in back open, which is morning sun. The front gets the afternoon sun directly and can be brutally hot, although this seems to be the start of the cool season (which is only cool compared to the hot season!)

Now that I have forced them out of that hole, they have returned to being their playful selves. The room is full on places to hide and things to climb, so they won't miss it.

But some sun on both sides and a nice cross breeze should be good for them.

 

[dahli6]

Excellent!

 

[Norachan]

It sounds like you've got the perfect set up for them. They are so lucky to have you.

So, is Mum coming back from the hospital today? I hope they've taken her cone off so she'll be more comfortable. If you can order things online I suggest you try to get a Feliway diffuser. They do a great job of calming cats down. You'd have to close the windows for it to work properly though.

 

[BangkokKittens]

So, Mom has been back in the hospital for 24 hours and the kittens are back to being their irrepressible selves. They seem at times to be getting slightly more comfortable with me, but aren't really showing any indications of warming up to me.

I sat in the room with my back turned to them last night and watched a movie for a bout two hours. I saw one creeping up behind me one or twice, but didn't want it to know that I noticed.

When I am in the room feeding them they stay far back. If I get within 6-7 feet their ears go down and flat. Within 3-5 feet and they hiss (so I avoid doing that). However, they also don't seem scared when I ignore then and do sometimes pop out to look at what I am doing.

I do think one big problem was that they had this spot behind the curtains where they could completely shelter and isolate themselves. I closed and taped it up yesterday, but it turned out they could still get in. So, any time I entered the room, they just all bolted for the hiding hole. Today, I gave it a second taping (now has two full rolls of duct tape) and I think they have reconciled themselves to the fact that it is shut.

This seems petty, but the hiding spot behind the curtain was completely blacked out, invisible from the room and it took them a bit of work to get in there - so once they did, they would wait a long time to come back out.

Now, they still have several great hiding places, but these are more exposed visibly and better connected. This means that they can venture out easily when I am in the room and run from one spot to another. They now do do both. And if there is food at the end of the room where they eat (and which is right by the cabinet they hide under), they will sneak out carefully to eat when I am at the other end.

When they hid behind the curtain and I put food out, it could take 30 minutes before the first one came out to eat, and maybe another 30 minutes until the last one did, at which point the food was gone. Now they they are closer and more mobile, the first is out within a minute or two and the rest just after that.

I have also gone in and done some fairly significant cleaning once or twice. Yesterday, I swept and mopped extensively, so it is now clean. With the cross breeze, there is no smell at all.

So, now two questions:

1) I would love to have any ideas or tips on how to get four kittens of roughly 8-10 weeks old to begin to socialize in that room. I know this seems a bit old to socialize, but I was feeding them openly outdoors as much a six weeks ago and I fed them daily on my porch (at which point, I could pet the Mom in front of them) for the 10 days before I trapped them. Please send me any tips, stories or links that you think would be useful.

2) The vet suggested that I leave Mom there for another full week as they said it takes 10 days to heal. This is a very expensive private hospital and it costs $50/day to board here (it was $500 for the surgery and shots). I am now thinking that may be I should bring her back here in a couple of days and have her stay in the house as a house cat, but not locked in one room or with the cone. Can any one think of ant reason not to do this. I am not super worried about the money. I hadn't planned to spend $1,000 on a cat, but at this point just want to do it right. I will take the kittens to PAWS or somewhere other than Bangkok's fanciest pet hospital!

 

[BangkokKittens]

Here are some more photos:

1-3 are picture of the kittens in their hiding place behind the curtain. The ones that are up high had to run across the room, scramble up on the aircon, and climb the mosquito net to get up there. Climbing back down the net is harder, especially when the panic recedes, so they would up just hiding there all day.

4-5 are just shots of them all out and eating

6 is the cat that stuck under the other house a month ago. It still has a small hairless patch on its little forehead were it rubbed against the beam trying to escape and hairless patches on its ears from mosquitos or rubbing. This little guy is still my slight favorite (but partially because it is the only one I can reliably identify!)

7 is just a cut close up of one kitten from the Kittycam

8 is an adorable pile of four kittens sleeping in one pile. Before I reintroduced Mom, they would sleep out in the open on towels, pillows or furniture, much like they used to do on the porch. It seems that they are now a bit more cautious, but we'll see. Today is just the second post-Mom day. I love this picture!

 

[Norachan]

I don't think there is any need to leave Mum at the hospital that long. None of my cats stayed longer than 24 hours when they were spayed. I think she'll be much happier at your place with you.

What kind of stitches does she have? Do they dissolve or does she have to go back and have them removed?
Does she have any medication? Pain killers or antibiotics?

I think you have a very good chance of getting the kittens socialised. They know that you feed them, that is half the battle won already.

A few tips;

Play some classical harp music at low volume. Cats really like the sound of the harp.

If you can get a Feliway diffuser and it's not unbearably hot with the windows closed try one of those. If you think it will be uncomfortable with the windows closed get the Feliway spray and squirt it on your hands when you go into the room.

Spend as much time as you can with them. Go into the room with a book or your PC and just hang out in there. The longer they are in your presence the tamer they will become.

Get a wand toy (You can make one with a long piece of string and a few feathers or bells tied to the end) Sit on the floor with a big sheet or blanket over your legs. Use the wand toy to play with the kittens. Don't worry about getting them to come close to you at first. Just try to engage them in play. When they are playing they will start to run over your legs without realising it's you. This is the first step in getting them used to being petted.

Take it slow. Don't try to rush things with them, if you let it go at their pace it will work better.

Most of my cats were much older when I first tried to socialise them. It can take a while, but it can be done so don't give up.

 

[dahli6]

Whenever I would feed my feral cats I always announce, good morning or hello. Even the most timid ones come running once they realize that my voice is a precursor to fresh food. I feed them around the same time every day so they are usually waiting.
If they are sneaking up on you they are inviting you to acknowledge them or play.
You can try purring at them or get a string toy, I have one that makes a mouse noise(electronic)and they love it. They also like butterflies and feathers.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I also wonder if it might help to carry each of them for a period each day. Some people use a sort of sling. This definitely wouldn’t be letting them come to you, but since they are young, it might help them.

 

[BangkokKittens]

I haven't made any updates as everything seems to be moving smoothly, if slowly. The kittens seem very content and a bit less skittish, although I can't really get within a meter of them. A neighbor has started going in every once is a while to try to pay with them and got some reaction to a mouse on a string, but not much. However, later last night they spend hours playing with the mouse toy on their own.

Last night for the first time, I fed them and staying the the room for 45 minutes while they ate. They were on top of the dresser/cabinet when I went in. Within 5 minutes the first came does, at 10 & 11 minutes the next two followed with the last one waiting a full 20 minutes. In general they did OK, but I have to stay absolutely still. If I moved my legs for example they would hiss for 10 feet away. Once I shifted my sitting position around and they hissed and fled under the cabinet and stayed there for 5 minutes or so. I do plan to keep doing this.

I have a few small issues for feedback:

1) The Mom is still in the hospital and I was going to bring her back early, but now have a trip to Manila for two days on Thursday and Friday. My helpful neighbor will feed them then. So, I think I just have to wait and reintroduce her on Saturday. If there is any reason why this is a bad idea, my neighbor would help do it earlier.

2) I read this on Carol's Ferals and wonder how important it is:

"If you have a litter of kittens, the first thing you need to do is separate them. If you do not separate the kittens, your rate of success goes way down and the time it takes to tame that kitten will go way up."

http://www.carolsferals.org/free-resources-on-feline-overpopulation/taming-feral-kittens/

I do have all four kittens together in a big room, and then will be bringing Mom back in two days. My inclination is to just go with the flow and to try to socialize them all there together, regardless of whether it is the most effective way to train them. Again, at the end of the day, they will be inside/outside cats and the main objective is for them to be happy and healthy, not to make them want to cuddle.

I also think it would be difficult and stressful to trap one or two (although probably not too much so - they went into the trap happily before, but I have never sprung to on them). If I were to try to isolate one or two, I think I would have to wait for Mom to get back, let some rebounding occur and then trap.

However, Mom is by far the friendliest and she loves interaction and petting, so I think having them watch her hang out with me and others is probably the best thing I can do. But I am open to suggestions. If I did trap maybe I could pet it and get it liking that, but it would involve separating it from the gang for days and leaving it along in a room. Ans I do think I want to prioritize their happy family adjustment over forced socialization.

 

[Norachan]

I don't think separating the feral kittens will really speed up getting them socialized. In fact, I think it will stress them out. I've always kept my litters of feral kittens together. There is always one in the group that is a little bit bolder than the others. When the more timid kittens see the brave one playing and getting treats from you they will be curious to come closer too.

I'm working with my tenth litter of feral born kittens at the moment and they're doing really well. If ever I get a single feral kitten I try to introduce him or her to my male cat, Little Boy, because he is wonderful with shy kittens. He's helped me draw a lot of terrified orphans out of their shell.

Has anyone suggested Gerber's Baby Food yet? You need the plain meat flavours, stage 2 baby food without any onions or garlic. No cat can resist it, it's known on the forums as Kitty Crack. If you can get a long handled spoon and get them to taste a little of that you'll be able to draw them closer.

Slow is good though, there is absolutely no need to rush.

 

[dahli6]

I think permanently separating them would be traumatic but you could have good results from capturing one at a time for a one on one quality time. I really think you could coerce more interaction with them but it requires you to breach their boundaries. Cats communicate a lot in body language. This means they are reading your body language too.
You are always conscious of them and move cautiously, this might identify you as a predator.
My collie taught me how to approach frightened feral kittens. He loved babies and could not resist adorable kittens but they were usually pretty scared of him at first. He would approach them directly and when they hissed and puffed up he would stop and look away but he did not retreat. Then he would make indirect eye contact and lower himself to a prone position so he would appear non-threatening. He would repeat this action until he could practically lay on top of them.
The kittens are in a secure space so they cannot escape. Your caution could be making them more fearful.

 

[ashade1]

Just found this story and wow! Great job with helping them! I think if you continue with what you are doing that you will start seeing a lot of progress!

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thanks again for all of the great insights. I had to do a quick two day work trip to the Philippines and my helpful cat-loving neighbor has been taking care of the kittens. She went in and played with them a few times before I left as well.

She is getting great results and sent me the attached photos. I suspect that Dahli6 is right about the body language. I have tried to be very deferential and show them that I am safe, but think I probably need to just be a bit more comfortable with them. I do think my caution may be making them more frightened or at least uncomfortable. I did sit in the room a few times while they ate and they seemed to start to be comfortable with me.

Following Norachan's suggestions (and my own heart), I do not plan to separate them, even temporarily. I do think trapping might be disruptive and keeping one in a separate room just to make it bond with me seems weird. At the end of the day, although I would like them to like me, as long as they are prepared to be safe and happy, I'm Ok with it.

Just as I got on the flight to Manila, the vet called and said Mom was ready to come home. I discussed this with my neighbor, who was willing to receive her, but we agreed to wait until Saturday when I get back. I think I will have her stay alone for a few hours to shed any hospital smell and get back to her self, then plan to put her in the room that shares the bathroom, open both doors and let them reunite naturally.

I really do hope they become a family again. However, in a worst case, I am happy letting Mom be. a house cat (which seems to be her desire) and then have the kittens live outdoors and feed them on my porch.

 

[dahli6]

Thanks again for all of the great insights. I had to do a quick two day work trip to the Philippines and my helpful cat-loving neighbor has been taking care of the kittens. She went in and played with them a few times before I left as well.

She is getting great results and sent me the attached photos. I suspect that Dahli6 is right about the body language. I have tried to be very deferential and show them that I am safe, but think I probably need to just be a bit more comfortable with them. I do think my caution may be making them more frightened or at least uncomfortable. I did sit in the room a few times while they ate and they seemed to start to be comfortable with me.

Following Norachan's suggestions (and my own heart), I do not plan to separate them, even temporarily. I do think trapping might be disruptive and keeping one in a separate room just to make it bond with me seems weird. At the end of the day, although I would like them to like me, as long as they are prepared to be safe and happy, I'm Ok with it.

Just as I got on the flight to Manila, the vet called and said Mom was ready to come home. I discussed this with my neighbor, who was willing to receive her, but we agreed to wait until Saturday when I get back. I think I will have her stay alone for a few hours to shed any hospital smell and get back to her self, then plan to put her in the room that shares the bathroom, open both doors and let them reunite naturally.

I really do hope they become a family again. However, in a worst case, I am happy letting Mom be. a house cat (which seems to be her desire) and then have the kittens live outdoors and feed them on my porch.

They look like they are doing very well.
I hope you have a safe trip.

 

[Norachan]

Everything seems to be going really well. I love that last picture of them all playing. Getting them to play with you is a huge step in the right direction. Success!

 

[ashade1]

How is everything going? Do you have momma back with the kittens now?