New Cat Always At War With My Other Cat. Literal Blood Has Been Spilled.

[danteshuman]

Hi I have only lived with 6 cats at a time before. A few things stood out to me.

1) your cat (?beck?) who is not grooming herself is severely stressed or depressed. I would take her to the vet and try Prozac or something else.
2) Rue I think maybe they used soft caps on her instead of clipping them a lot? Her best bet to learn to use her claws is from learning from a cat buddy. I would try to pair her up with a buddy if you see one she gravitates to. If so, keep her buddy in her room when she is locked up.
3) I would give Rue run of the house/outside if they go outside for half of the day. Keep Beck in her room while Rue runs free. Put her scratchers and beds outside of her room to expand her territory. Hopefully they will learn their new schedules.
4) I have a scared bully who I call my punk/bud (Dante.) Well my punk hunts his brother if he doesn't get his playtime and outside bird hunting time. So I would strongly encourage a bird watching window or highhanging feeder in your yard so your bully can "hunt" appropriate prey. If my punk doesn't wear himself out mentally, he is a terror!
5) I would try calming sprays all over the house because it could not hurt.
6) building up my prey cat's confidience helped.
7) I would try to catify as much as you can to expand everyone's territory. Maybe your brothers can build a cat shelve track in the living room and maybe more shelves where ever fights happen the most? (Trying to eliminate dead ends.)

8)

Hang in there. It will get better but it does take time.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Gracious sakes!
Hopefully the calming spray helps!
I was thinking the same as danteshuman about Beckie, she maybe does need something stronger to help her to be more calm...

 

[loveskitty]

is it possible that it is the scope of attention and play time you allot to the one cat that makes her the target of the other cat?
The heart is big but perhaps you are spread too thin and the cats resent the favorites.These behaviors have a goal and perhaps if cat x is too much of a problem then cat y thinks they can move them on by messing up the works.
I'm envious of the amt of attention you can give to cats. I think this reintroduction idea has merit.
What I really meant to say mostly was that any bite ( to the bone you said)

is one bite too many. Any bite not left in play confusion is a deal breaker.
Sometimes I get the feeling when feeding stray cats that they view me as this functional white mammal that lives to feed them.

A bite from dog or cat isn't just a sign. Its a deal breaker. We are the humans. Cats biting not out of panic or self defense..would you let another human get away with that?
Just saying.

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

I don't *think* it's the amount of attention either one gets. Becca has always been a background cat by choice. She gets loved silly by my brother. For the last year I've been doing intense rehab work with Clyde, which I would assume would make her act up more. She's also been around while I did rehab with Kira, and the two years I spent obsessed with Socks. I guess she's never been 'my' cat, but my brother's. She seems to prefer it that way. Not saying that can't be the case, but I think it would be unlikely.

is one bite too many. Any bite not left in play confusion is a deal breaker.
Sometimes I get the feeling when feeding stray cats that they view me as this functional white mammal that lives to feed them.

A bite from dog or cat isn't just a sign. Its a deal breaker. We are the humans. Cats biting not out of panic or self defense..would you let another human get away with that?
Just saying.

With some cats it can be a problem, but with mine I've found it's just them being scared. I have a scar on my wrist from an adorable stray tom cat (Well, 'stray'. He had a home, he just preferred mine) I was taking home to get fixed. It's the only time he's ever bit anyone, and that was because I was carrying him out of his 'safe' area. I've also been bitten by Kira, who is the most gentle animal I could ever have. He has high anxiety, and his fight or flight response is horrible. I'm the only one he bites, he just nips at my brother. I make sure to warn people to stay away if they start acting aggressive. The signs are pretty clear when you know what to watch for.

I'd hold a human very much more accountable than a cat - a human I can talk to and explain why that's a no-no. With my cat they're responding purely on instinct, or being scared. I've actually learned to love the - many - scars I've gotten over the years from cat bites/scratches. It means that I was helping them.
Kira hasn't had a down to the bone bite in over a year, and only nips now when he's REALLY scared. Rue only bit me down to the bone when she was terrified as well. I think if you can learn how to 'speak cat' and communicate with them, biting isn't so bad if you can retrain it. Kira still tends to slip and grab my hand in a death grip. When he does that I say "Kira sweetie" in a very specific - firm but very loving - tone and he drops my hand right away.
I'd never count a cat out for the count for a bite, unless it was perfectly clear they meant it in anger and wouldn't stop. Mine only do it out of fear, which I understand. Luckily for me, I've never had an infected wound before. (I've NO idea how...)

As for why I get to work with them so much... My parents had a less than perfect marriage (I grew up really poor/he had an addiction issue so LOTS of fighting.) Between always having a utility shut off, the stress in the house, not having any friends, etc, I learned to love my cat as my friend. They've helped me with my PTSD/OCD/ADHD/Anxiety, given me something to live for, and just been there in my time of need. As a result I want to go into animal rehab professionally. I figure if I start with mine it'll work out. I also can't work, so I have a ton of free time to dedicate to the little monsters.

PS. Please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm truly not! I just love my furry friends and see what they can become.
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1) your cat (?beck?) who is not grooming herself is severely stressed or depressed. I would take her to the vet and try Prozac or something else.

A vet trip is for sure on my to do list. She also has horrible chine acne. It bleeds if you scratch her chin gently with a nail. I have a 28 year old cockatiel I have to put down sometime this month, which has to take priority. As soon as that's done and I get the money she's going in for her weight anyway.

2) Rue I think maybe they used soft caps on her instead of clipping them a lot? Her best bet to learn to use her claws is from learning from a cat buddy. I would try to pair her up with a buddy if you see one she gravitates to. If so, keep her buddy in her room when she is locked up.

The lady gave me claw clippers and said they clipped her weekly. I'm thinking maybe they clipped them too short, causing pain if Rue scratched? She seems to be picking it up okay. She tolerates Clyde, but he's 19 and doesn't move much. I may start tucking them in the same room at night to see how they handle it. And I really miss having Clyde on my bed. She also tolerates Socks, mostly because Socks has an attitude so large you wouldn't DARE touch her. (She's never won a fight though) I may start with those two together as well. I'll have to see who she likes and see if they can be friends! Wolfie would be good if she can handle him.

3) I would give Rue run of the house/outside if they go outside for half of the day. Keep Beck in her room while Rue runs free. Put her scratchers and beds outside of her room to expand her territory. Hopefully they will learn their new schedules.

She loves her little pipe cleaners and fuzzy balls. Maybe I'll start putting them in the basement instead of my room to get her out of her comfort zone! I've also taken up giving her tuna out in the main room vs my bedroom. If the cats are in the center of the room she doesn't mind if she's off to the side to eat. Same thing with catnip. Tonight we had progress, she sat on the piano and watched the cats under her.

We're working on cutting off the bottlenecks. The biggest problem is Socks, believe it or not. If I make something she 'happens' to go by and 'happens' to sit on it like it's hers and has been for YEARS. And then when you take her down she grumps, snarls, and goes right back up as soon as you leave the room to clean her 'drumsticks'. She's entitled. Very, very entitled.


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in other news, we had progress tonight!! I know this post is already massively long, so I apologize in advance. But I'm proud of Rue! She was on the upstairs cat tree, and I managed to play with her while my brother played with three cats right under her. She kept looking, but then I could distract her. If I moved the pipe cleaner in view of the other cats she got focused, so I'd gently call her and put her toy in her face. We played for 15 minutes before she barfed on me. (Whenever she's around my other cats she develops a cold?? What? NON of my other cats are sick.)

I took a quick video of Becca tonight. (Ignore my carpet. We're renovating and gave up carpet cleaning until we're done) This is her before her sister showed up.You can see she's comfortable and let's me pet her without trouble. You can also see how stiff her fur is, and how dirty her eyes are. This is her a minute later when Blackie came in. Instant attitude change. She no longer lets me touch her face, and holds herself lower to the ground.

I feel bad now. Once you guys pointed it out I was like "DUH!!! OF COURSE SHE NEEDS HELP!!!" but I was missing it somehow. Ugh.

They're still on scent swap, which makes them HATE each other. I'm trying to figure out a way to do it that doesn't stress them out too much. I'm thinking toys so far.



If it takes me a year to sort this out until I move out, I will. If I can dedicate an entire year to doing nothing but making my 19 year old cat walk up the stairs once a day, and across a room twice a day (Muscle tone was lacking) I can dedicate an hour a day to figuring these two monsters out. Bloodshed is a no-no in my house. I'm planning my wedding (Ever plan an ENTIRE wedding in two months? Don't.) so all my anxiety is getting taken out on mothering these two into shape. I'm not smothering them, but they're getting help. Becca isn't sure what to think. I think she's honestly terrified.

 

[danteshuman]

I didn't realize how old Rue is. It might be worth checking to see if she has arthritis .... that could make her not want to scratch. I really think her watching you praise a buddy cat as they use a scratcher will help. Sometimes another cat teaches a cat how to interact with humans better then their new adopted family can ever hope to do.

I'm sorry about your cocktail.


I know about stretched finiances. I'm on SSDI and 2 cats is my max limmit. If I could I would only have one cat but I had 2 cats before I went on disability. There is an article on this site about how to get emergency vet care if you lack the funds. (I'm on my cell or I would link it.)

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Rue is only four, worry for the confusion!

I should have money at the end of this month to get her in. It's a bit of a 'holding' pattern until November when life settles.

Even in the few days together I can already see some signs of improvement. And a few signs of raised aggression. Nothing happens over night, even though I want it to. We will see what we can do for them. Treating them as separate problems helps. Rue needs to learn boundaries - and not beat the cats up when they're eating. Beckie needs to learn limits and how to feel pretty about herself. Her life will be very depressing if that's all she wants to do.

For now I've taken anything of Beck's out of my room, and tucked her and Clyde in my room. The hurricane hit us with a boom, forcing all cats inside. Clyde gets cold easy due to failing kidney parts, so when there's a storm we snuggle him on a blanket for warmth and make sure he's okay. He's the most harmless thing ever, so I'm thinking Rue will be okay. (If not I wake up several times a night anyway) she really does need a companion. Pop

 

[walli]

I think when you do the scent swap you can give them treats to make it a good thing?
I think Jackson Galaxies website has some tips, there is something on there about feeding the 2 on either side of a "gate" and get them used to having something good together, might want to check out the website

 

[nunnc84]

This may not help. I introduced a stray to my retired ally cat. The stray hunts the ally cat. The ally cat is only concern is her next meal, and the open window leading to communicating with the cats outside.
The stray guards my interactions, and acts like a protector more than a cat; I think she is siamese.
They both are female, over 4 years old, and are fixed. Every time the ally cat gets on the floor to drink, use the bathroom, or move her perch; she is chased by the stray cat.
During the time they are not supervised, they are separated by walls and doors. The stray cat is extremely curious, she is on the counters in human food, she jumps the pet gate, she is attention and food aggressive. The Ally Cat is like a wall flower on wall paper.
Does it take time? When will these cats finally accept each other? IS it up to me to make their relationships work?

 

[walli]

yes, yes, and yes!
You really have to put the time in, your suppose to keep them separated while they don't get along. you have to be the one to socialize them.
I am having difficulty with my Feral and it can take a long time.
I think you just need a little work, doesn't sound too bad, at least they are not fighting.
There are articles here somewhere on how to socialize cats also on the Jackson Galaxy website

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Does it take time? When will these cats finally accept each other? IS it up to me to make their relationships work?

Oh yes, it will. Kira, my ragdoll Siamese, took over a year to adjust. I actually still struggle with him, always reminding him he's a handsome cat and not to skitter off to the garage.

Cats are passive aggressive, or at least mine are. If you don't kind of nudge them along, nothing will ever happen. They may come to an uneasy truce, and ignore each other, but they'll always be a bit stressed. I've been very lucky with my herd. They're always in kind of a flux (In the last six years two have vanished, one died of old age, I've added three new ones, and the 'old' herd has had to adapt to kittens, strays, my neighbor's tom cat adopting me, etc) so they tolerate each other. I would very much play with them, have them in the same room, scent swap, etc. Rue and Beckie have made MASSIVE improvements in just a few days. It takes a LOT of work, and dedication. You can't just half start and then go "eh, they'll sort it out." Or "Eh, I'm too busy." If eight PM is playtime then eight PM is play time. Full stop. Even if they don't want to play, offer it just to get them used to a routine. I've literally spent hours researching this now, ha!
Eventually they should at least tolerate each other. Mine still try to fight now and then. I have to remind them who's in charge. Often it's little things, like Fiddle will take Kira's sleeping spot, causing Kira to take Socks's sleeping spot, which trickles down until the entire house hates each other. You have to watch and see who the problem is and fix it. Kira and Fiddle share the same sleeping places. If I see Kira showing signs of stress I watch to see if Fiddle is in Kira's sleeping spot more than usual. If so, Fiddle gets plucked out and put in her spot every time until she figures it out. Six months later I do it again. *Sigh*
It's also harder to get them adjusted during the changing of seasons if they're indoor/outdoor cats. Suddenly their space is smaller. You'll get more tussling then if they aren't friends.



Becca and Rue made an improvement today!! I think. Rue was up in the living room for four hours, and Becca didn't once stop by to hiss, or stare. She stayed in her room sleeping.
Becca is also getting used to the idea of me petting her. When I started she would cringe like I was going to smack her. She will now come to me to get love if I'm upstairs. I've started doing the same downstairs, but she still runs in terror from me downstairs. She's more social with the humans now, I think. And she looks a little happier. I know part of it is that we've been hit by the tail of the hurricane so she's been stuck inside, but still.

Rue is my new problem. She's guarding the basement. As in she has a literal guard path she takes to bully my other cats. I'm rearranging things to get rid of any blind spots, and putting things in her guard path to hopefully retrain her. She's still very angry. If she hears a collar shake she goes running to check.
My biggest problem is that Kira also shares the basement. He's lived there for ages, since he's too shy to be upstairs. (He's VERY timid. Always has been, always will. He'll nip at people and if I pet him too long he gets anxiety.) The basement is his safe space. Rue has discovered him, and made him her new target. She's horribly mean to him, and has scared him so bad he prefers to sleep outside in the pouring rain rather than come in. He's back to biting me again (not hard, just a nip) so I have to focus on Becca, Rue and now Kira. Kira I'm used to since he's eight, but it's still a pain.

Luckily Kira has made an unexpected buddy! He now plays with Socks. Socks is... special. When she was a kitten she used to go 'spooky' like kittens do. I'd step at her and gently yell "boo!" in a playful way so she'd run off in pure joy. As a result she now likes being chased. She'll stage any way she can to be chased. If I'm taking the trash out, she'll be in my path so she can run. If I'm gardening, she runs back and forth across the path I'm on. If I go down the stairs, she shoots in front of me.
Wolfie helped in that he chased her, but then he grew up and got teeth. She didn't like that she couldn't just chomp him painfully when she was done playing (She turns off like a lightswitch.) She likes if I play with her, so I do that off and on. With my focus on Rue she's had to entertain herself, so she's adopted Kira in the mornings. They spend an hour or so in the mornings chasing each other. He's very confused about the entire situation. She doesn't care. Since she's not actually wrestling with him I'm letting them go, since Kira needs all the support he can get.
Blackie is another problem. She's MEAN with the weather change. She pounds on Rue, who is in turn pounding on the other cats. I'm still trying to figure out how to manage her. She's another cat I'm not very close to.

Rue is interested in coming out at night to play with the fishing pole in the main room, even if Beck, Wolfie, Spoon and Kira are in the room. Along with the scent swap I'm going to play with her while the other cats are around. Get them used to the idea that she's not a threat, and get her used to the idea that they're NOT going to attack her.

I expect a long and hard winter keeping the herd in check. Eight cats was fine, but I think adding a ninth was the tipping point. Clyde will be passing soon, and when I move out I'll be taking two or three, but still. It's hard. I CANNOT give any of them away, but I hate seeing them stressed. Rue wasn't a good fit for my rough and wild herd, I think. She'll manage in the long run, but she's going to have to learn how to be a pack cat instead of a pampered princess.


As an aside, I also have the fun challenge of teaching Rue how to be a cat. She does NOT know how to be held. She thinks when you pick her up she needs to lay on her side, or crawl up your back, or across your shoulders, then growl/tense up. She doesn't know how to be put down either. I've NO CLUE how they picked her up. When I pick up my other cats they automatically fold themselves into a position they like to be carried. So does every other cat I've ever seen. She has no idea what she's doing. It's weird.

But anyway, progress! I think. Beck and Rue stared at each other less than a foot away without murdering each other today.

 

[5starcathotel]

"Beck and Rue stared at each other less than a foot away without murdering each other today."

For me, that is awesome. If they can just progress to the point of touching noses....that would be awesome! But it sounds like you are on the right track tih them!

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Rue is settling. She still won't go across the kitchen without company. I've taken up putting her at the top of the stairs and pushing her so she'll move. She likes to snooze on the tree upstairs. She still won't roam the room freely - part of that may be that my rabbit is prone to attacking the cats. She's still nervous, but comfortable in "her" space.

Her and Beck have taken up a weird sort of dance. They both go into the basement and... stare. For hours. Neither is able to unlock. They break it up when I walk in, so I KNOW they know they shouldn't. They only fight about once a day, though. Rue *mostly* leaves the cats alone to get to the food dish.

I've come across a horrible problem with adding Rue to the family. Kira is triggered. He used to sleep in the basement - he has for YEARS. Rue was... not kind. He banished himself to the outdoors. He was sleeping outside in the flash flooding. He's nervous around humans, so upstairs isn't an option.

I began bringing him in and setting him on his blanket like I do. He would stay if he had company, but would be tense. After about a week he would come down to join us at night. Until he met Rue again. Then it was back outside. He now comes in and hides under the computer desk, coiled and ready to run out the cat door as soon as someone sees him.

I felt terrible for him. I brought him downstairs tonight since I know he hasn't eaten. He growled at me - he growls when I pick him up, nothing new there. But then he saw Rue. He freaked out, she freaked out, he freaked out more. I had to drop him because I was - for the first time ever - unsure if he wouldn't bite. I fully expected blood on my hands. Rue made herself scarce, and I put Kira on the food.

Normally this settles him down. I can sit and talk to him in a soft voice, and he'll settle. No such luck. He was eating in a panic - so fast he was choking. His eyes were huge, he was wound tight, loud growling. He looked like he'd rip your face off from sheer terror. I tried for ten minutes to settle him. Every sound he heard set him off again. He's only bitten me once or twice in the six years I've had him - out of sheer terror, mind you - but looking at him you could just *tell* touching wouldn't be smart. I grabbed a blanket and tossed it over his head/back and picked him up that way. He didn't bite, which is lucky. I put him in my room, which is connected to the bathroom, which I have opened. He fled into the bathroom and plastered himself to the door.

I let him calm down for a few minutes before trying again. These are things that *always* work with him. Soft voice, gentle touch, but be firm and in charge.

This is the result.
Dropbox - VID_20181011_225454.mp4

Classic signs of fear. Lip licking, growling, wide eyes, tense. I honestly didn't want to touch him. With him you have to be firm and just do it, but I knew he'd eat me. I sat with him for another ten minutes, talking, playing with toys, trying to get him food. No go. But he could hear Rue on the other side of the door.

Again I moved him - blanket over the face works great - this time into my room. His old cat tree where he lived before Rue showed up. I thought something familiar would be comforting.

Nope.

Dropbox - VID_20181011_225644.mp4

(Yes I know the tree is filthy. I have a brush to clean it with. I'm struggling with depression so it's not on my priority list.)

It's now been an hour. He hasn't moved off the tree, or uncoiled. He's still tense, and when I stand up he growls.

I feel wounded a bit emotionally, and I'm not sure why. He sees me as a threat, when I've always been his comfort. I know it's just his panic, but I thought I'd at least be able to help him.

He's going to spend the night in my room, with Rue locked out. If I let him out he will go outside in the rain. I'm honestly not sure he wouldn't run away. Rue is going to be SUPER mad, since this is HER room. I'm worried she will be stressed. I'm worried Kira will be stressed since it stinks of Rue. I don't know how to help Kira for once. He's been a bright, beautiful sunflower for the last year. Really coming out of his shell and exploring. This is worse than when I first rescued him from the street.

I hope I can get through to Kira again. He only listens to me because for the first three weeks he lived with us he was locked in my room, and I was his caretaker. We don't 'connect' like I do with MY cats, but we have an understanding. I don't want to see him shrivel in fear again, or be bullied out of the house. I had one cat leave the house to become a stray due to being bullied. I will NEVER let that happen again. If I have to Rue will sleep upstairs with my sister at night, and Kira can be locked in the basement.


*Sigh* I feel guilty tonight, guys. Beck and Rue are making progress, I guess. But now poor Kira is caught up in it. He doesn't deserve to sleep out in the rain because he's terrified of Rue. He deserves his space back. Poor guy.

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Bad news. Becca and Rue are mostly fine. But Kira's stress level is so high he won't come inside anymore. He's a very, very timid cat. Rue still attacks cats if she sees them. We got about one tussle a night. But she's horrible to Kira. He's lost all the years of work I've put into him and now bites me when I get near. I don't know what to do. Rue is probably going to have to get locked up in different rooms until I move out. I can't have Kira running away due to abuse. He's so upset it made me cry.

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Update: Becca and Rue have come to an uneasy truce! They now pretty much ignore each other. Beck still hunts Rue, but we've been 26 hours without a fight now. I consider this a win!

After all the feeding sessions, toys, showing them each other, scent sharing, etc, it was actually Rue's collar and her lack of brains that worked. They have quick release collars - the buckles they can pull off if it gets stuck. Rue came with her pretty pink collar. Apparently she's attached to it. The collars get pulled off a lot during fights. Rue has learned that if she doesn't fight Becca she doesn't get her collar taken. I have no idea how that works, but whatever. (Seriously, she loses it and looks like you took her food away.)

They now often stare at each other from across the room, with a little swipe here and there, but like I said, 26 hours!

Only downside is Rue now lords over the basement. I now have my own evil cat overlord. Her old owners can't believe Rue has a temper. They came to visit once (Neighbors) and their jaw hit the floor when they saw Rue attack Blackie. I told them I'd knit Rue a little evil overlord cape, so it's all good.

Kira lives in the basement, and is very timid. She's terrified him so bad he stays outside. I'm working with him, but it will take time. I have to bring him to the food dish and sit with him to make sure he eats. The entire time he looks around for Rue. He's always been very scared and special, so it's not a huge change for me. Every few months I have to remind him that we love him and convince him to come out of the basement again. (He gets pet daily, I'm not just ignoring him.)

Blackie still tries to kill Rue when they run into each other. They don't run in the same areas of the house, so it's a non issue. Rue won't come out of the basement unless I bring her, and still spends most of her time in my room. For the most part I just leave her there.