New Cat Always At War With My Other Cat. Literal Blood Has Been Spilled.

[EveAndHerThieves]

Bit of an unusual situation I've run into. I own a total of nine cats - don't worry, I have TONS of spaces for them. I don't adopt more than I can handle and keep them comfortable. Beck and Rue are NOT getting along after five months, and I'm a bit at a loss of what to do. Mostly with Rue.

Background quickly: About ten years ago I owned a tom cat named Lead. After we got him fixed he would still spray, sing, beat up males, etc. He was MEAN. He liked to pick on my other cat, Spoon. Spoon is a bit of a wimp anyway. He'd chase her all over the house until she would jump into a basket to hide. This went on for years due to the fact I had personal issues and couldn't address it. Finally Lead passed, and Spoon was able to be herself. Ish. Now she's a wimp, but also a bully. This is where Beck comes in. Beck is about seven, Spoon is about 12. When I adopted Beck they would have an uneasy truce. Once in a while Spoon would pound Beck, then they'd ignore each other. The cycle repeats. I *can't* rehome either cat, as they are both very much attached to my brothers.
As a result, Beck - who is also a wimp, and has low self confidence - is also a household bully.
Side note: Beckie has ... Issues? She's very overweight. I have her on a diet, but she seems to comfort eat. She also hardly ever cleans herself. I've tried giving her a spray bath and it just doesn't work. I trim her fur so there's less, and it also doesn't work. It's almost like she has horrible self confidence issues. Her two sisters are fine-ish. Fiddle is a tomboy outdoor cat, and Blackie is a needy/friendly little soul who sits on a stool every night for food. Beckie just hides in a bedroom and sleeps. But she'll play with toys. Spoon hasn't beaten her up for years, so there's nothing to hide from. She's not walking around in terror. She's just... Depressed, I guess?

Rue, on the other hand, is the most sheltered cat I have EVER met. She's four years old, and was an indoor only house cat. She had no cat towers, never got an open window, no plants, etc. She had lots of toys, and was treated like a baby. They clipped her claws a lot, which has caused her to really not know how to use a cat scratcher. When I adopted her she was the sweetest, most gentle, clueless thing ever. With a temper, but that's fine. I've had to teach her not to be terrified of open windows, I still have to clip her claws because she's useless. She's been introduced to catnip, and cat treats. She LOVES to play with you, but if she gets stressed or scared she will bite HARD.
Side note: Rue is so clueless she hauls her little ball toys around with her. She thinks that in order to eat she has to put it in the food dish. Then it has to go into the water dish to drink. Then she spills her water and puts it back into the food dish. She has no idea what a bird is, noises scare her, and she loves humans. She also plays with her toys for about two hours a day, and I play with her even more. The fact that a door opens to the outside terrifies her. She'll go out, then run in when a car passes. It's weird.

Now the problem. Rue is used to a small one bedroom apartment. I have a huge five bedroom house. Rue isn't used to the space, so she stays in the downstairs bedroom most of the time. After five months she still won't come up the stairs unless I bring her.

This has caused a war in the house. Beck, who I can normally convince to leave the other cats alone, now stays in the basement. Guarding the bedroom door, waiting. As soon as Rue come out they both lock on target and stare at each other for hours until one beats the snot out of the other. I CANNOT convince Beck to do other things. She'll give up her favorite food, treats, catnip, whatever so she can stalk Rue. She will wait for HOURS until Rue comes out.

Naturally, this has angered Rue. Rue now keeps herself safe by attacking the other cats first. All of them. If I remove Beck from the area she will be in the same room as my other cats, though she still grows at Fiddle a lot.

Rue attacking my other cats has triggered Blackie, who is another wimp/bully, and Beck's sister. Though Blackie is usually harmless. Blackie now attacks Rue AND Beck, which in turn triggers Rue and Beck, Rue and Beck fight, they drag Blackie into it, rinse repeat.

With my other bully cats when the cycle starts I can stop it within days. Yelling at them, spraying them with water, a VERY gentle swat on the rear if it's really bad. They get the message because they listen to me and break it up. Not so with Rue and Beck. They can't focus when each other is in the room. Rue WILL leave Beck alone if I coax her a lot, Beck won't.

So here's my problem. How on EARTH do I get Beck to refocus? If I can get Beck to settle down and leave Rue alone, Rue won't attack my other cats, including Blackie. In turn Blackie won't attack my other cats, causing Beck to act up worse. Rue is now so terrified that she won't come upstairs unless I bring her upstairs. I KNOW if I get Beck to stop literally stalking Rue I could get them to get along. I've never had a cat so OBSESSED with stalking before.

I'm moving out in about a year and a half and taking Rue with me, just because she's useless as a house cat, but I need to keep them from killing each other until then. It's been five months, so the habits are very cemented into place. Beck now runs when she sees me and won't let me catch her. But she still hunts Rue.

Help? I've gotten eight cats to work together just fine, even with the tussles. Throwing Rue into the mix is hard. Because she's been babied she doesn't respond to being yelled at, sprayed with water, the cat air horns, etc. I'm lost, for once.

I'd rehome them, but Beck is a rescue who requires special attention, and is very attached to my autistic brother. Blackie is Beck's sister, who is also attached to my brother. Rue is useless, and I don't dare rehome her due to her biting habits. She's bit me to the bone a few times.

I know some cats just don't get along. This may be one of those situations. But I'd at least like to try before I go the drastic way of finding Rue a new home. I adopted her as a huge favor to her old owner, who was becoming homeless and needed her baby to have a home.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text! With the cold weather coming I foresee lots of battles with Beck.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! My guy does many of the same things with mousies/toys that Rue does - and ...nope. Not clueless or useless. As a matter of fact, he's incredibly smart

Can you try any calming products with these guys? including Beckie?
Can you try music? Classical harp music really does work. There are other music sources, an app called Relax My Cat, MusicForCats, George Handel music compositions, kusc.org
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Thank you! Those are very helpful. I haven't thought of calming products. I've tried a spray in the past that did NOT work, but maybe it was just cheap. Rue has now taken up watching under my door at night to wait for Beckie.

I'm pretty sure Rue is VERY smart! Just... Sheltered. She's very naive. I haven't found the magic touch to connect with her yet. My other cats all have the trigger that makes them listen. Those things just makes Rue angry, like she doesn't understand being put in her place. Beck seems to understand, she just can't unfocus enough to care.

I'll read through the links and see if I can figure this out. All nine of my cats and my two cockatiels are rescues. Heck, I tried to save the baby field mouse Socks brought home. I refuse to give up now.

 

[jcat]

If Rue feels safe in the bedroom and won't come out of her own accord, why not let her be until she wants to venture out on her own? It would mean that household members would have to spend quality time with her there, perhaps until you move out with her, but that wouldn't be as bad as the open warfare you have now.

Once Beck gets the idea that Rue isn't going to be coming out any time soon, she should lose interest in that door and stop the stalking.

 

[5starcathotel]

Hmm....I would start with Rue, as it sounds like she has no confidence to claim personal space in the presence of other cats. Given her history, and biting problems, I'm guessing she never really learned how to socialize with other cats. So start from the basics...use interactive toys to get her to focus, hunt, and kill. Let her instincts guide her.

And given that Beck is overweight, I'd do the same with her. Get her focused, get her to run, and climb.

Once you can get them to focus on a toy individually, then hopefully you can get them in the same room together, but still be focused on the toy.

 

[Elphaba09]

I also have nine cats! We live in a small-ish house but have plenty of space for them. We also occasionally foster.

Firstly, I want to say that I do not recommend spraying your cats with water as a punishment/behavior modification. While it does often technically work, it also creates a great deal of stress and can make your cats distrustful. That in itself can cause major issues. If you want to reduce stress, put away the bottles and never use them again.

Secondly, I agree with Furballsmom that a good calming spray or plug-in can be helpful. I keep a couple of brands on hand since some work better with some cats and others, others.

I also agree with jcat that it seems logical to let Rue be in her safe space and come out when she wants. She reminds me a bit of our cat Freya. It took her two years to interact positively with our other cats (we had six at the time) and is still a bit standoff-ish. She is particularly fond of two of the other cats now and actually plays with them and licks them.

She also reminds me of our Astrid because she lacks confidence. Play, positive reinforcement, and giving her options for safe havens if and when she needs them has caused a huge improvement over the years. She still has confidence issues, but she is so much better than before.

You could consider re-introducing the cats.

Beck reminds me of our Tara in that she hyper-focuses and is a known stalker. She used to hunt Astrid down and attack her multiple times a day. What was hard to understand at first is that, even though Tara acted out as a bully, she was terrified all the time and was lashing out at the weakest cat. She needed a distraction, calming, and an outlet for her energy.

At first, to redirect her focus, we would click our fingers and physically move her. Usually, that meant we held her and pet her until she lost interest in whatever had her focus (usually Astrid). We would say her name, click, and then pick her up. After a while, she started turning her head a bit when I said her name and clicked, showing that she understood I wanted her attention and that I was coming to get her. Several months later, she started coming to me when I did the name/click. About 80% of the time now, I just have to click and point next to me and Tara will come and want to be pet. The other 20% of the time, I have to click several times before she unfocuses. On very rare occasions, I will have to go over to her and say her name in a stern voice.

She does chase and semi-stalk the other cats (read that as Astrid), but her behavior is different than when she is in attack mode.

I do the same thing for our Fennimore. He is our big boy (16 lbs, roughly) and believes that he is the boss of the house. About once a week, he will do a war cry and get into a threatening stance with one of the other cats (typically Estella, Astrid, Freya, or Willow). I say his name, click several times, ask him what he is doing, and, if I have to, physically remove him to distract him.

I dislike yelling or raising my voice. I rarely had to raise my voice with my children, and I have not had to do it with my cats. (I will say their names in a slightly raised voice, but it is attention-getting, not angry or threatening.)

 

[Elphaba09]

Also, have you asked your vet about the aggressive behavior? Could there be an illness or mental issue?

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

I've ruled out mental issues, as well as anything else wonky. She's just overweight with a self confidence of zero due to being pounded. The vet is concerned about her weight, which is why she's on a diet. She seems to think I'm punishing her for something. I don't have a strong emotional connection to that cat, so she's a bit hard to communicate with.

I don't really spray my cats, since it never works. I mostly spray beside them, since the noise startles them and shakes them out of their focus. I use a stern tone mostly. I only do it when I can't get up due to a horribly pinched nerve, though. Mostly the bottle gets used to bathe my cockatiel. He likes it much better.

I'll see if I can get Beck and Rue to play with toys. Rue likes to come upstairs to the bay window, or else I'd keep her in the basement. The other problem is that's where my cat's food dish is. *Le sigh* They both enjoy playing. Beck will NOT stand up to play, any ideas to get her moving? She only swats strings if she can sit still.

I tried scent swapping last night! Beck stuck her ears back and avoided it like the plaque. Rue sniffed it, opened her mouth like it was pee, sniffed some more, and came over to me to lick me. I was thinking, since they both like the same cat toy, maybe using it on both of them so the scent gets associated with play? Currently if Beck smells anything Rue, she dominates it as HERS.

I was looking at calming things on Amazon this morning. The only one I can find people say the plug tends to catch fire? Maybe I'm not in the right place. I'm sure they could all benefit from it. They're all very high strung.

Kira, ragdoll, is very, very shy. It took him over two years to get used to the household. He was abandoned as a kitten and was about two days from starving when I found him. So I know it can take time to adapt. I was hoping to see more progress though, you know?

They're all pests, each and every one. And I love them to death. Whenever they all get stressed and fight you have to find out who's the problem. It could be Socks taking over Fiddle's backing, forcing Fiddle to take over Kira's space, etc. It could be a dirty box, causing Spoon to get nervous. Clearly this time it's either Beck or Rue.

With winter coming I'd like to make them as comfortable as possible. When Beck and Rue first got at each other I had literal bloody paw prints, Rue now has a forked tongue from getting the side bitten off (The vet was impressed) Rue AND Beck are missing ear pieces now. It's MUCH better, but still not perfect.

I'll fully admit, I've been focusing on Beckie thinking SHE was the root of the problem. I hadn't thought that maybe Rue was the issue as well. It would make sense. All the other cats live together in a truce. I've never had this much trouble adding to the herd. And the other cats should know the drill by now.

I'll keep an eye on Rue to see how she's acting, and continue with the scent swap. If I can find a calming product I'll include that as well. I'm feeling very optimistic today!

 

[Elphaba09]

Since you tried scent exchange, you could try taking a soft cloth (one for each) and rubbing their cheeks with it then putting the cloth of the opposite cat near them. After a while, you could move up to switching their collars.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Feliway diffusers (most likely the product you saw on Amazon) don't always work with cats, and have been reported as making things worse sometimes.

Here is some more specific info about some other calming products;
There is Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.
Also Thunderease has diffusers as does Sentry.
You might want to check with a vet, but some people have good results with CBD oil.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo.

Calming Treats For A Very Picky Cat

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

I actually own the Nature's Miracle spray. I hadn't thought of that for some reason. It's been sitting in my closet untouched after an - unsuccessful - attempt to get Socks (My female) to stop spraying walls. It doesn't work on my other cats, but Rue isn't like other cats. If that doesn't settle things I will try some of the others.
After thinking about it, I'm thinking I need to attack it from the angle of Rue instead of Beckie. Beckie responds to having someone stand up to her, but also ignore her. Pretty much saying "I know you're there but I can't be bothered." That's how I got her to leave my other cats alone. I'm thinking if I can convince RUE to leave Beck alone, Beck will lose interest. At least, that's my current theory.

Scent swapping went... not well. Last night was okay. Beck apparently just went back to bed on it last night. I decided to spend some time with Beckie, giving her new things to do and hopefully building her confidence to the point where she doesn't feel the need to hurt Rue. I spent about 30 minutes in "her" room, playing with her, talking to her, and petting her. Just building up a bond again. I spent a lot of time laying on the floor at her level since she kept walking around in a nervous manor.
Apparently this meant I STANK of Beckie. I didn't think of that when I picked Rue up from the upstairs cat tree to bring her downstairs. She complained the entire way, moaning and yeowling. She didn't bite me or claw me, but she was vocal about it.
She was tense enough that I didn't dare pick her off my shoulder (Rue has NO CLUE how to be held) so I let her climb off my back onto her cat tree. She turned around and squeaked like she does for love. She was insta friendly again. I reached to brush her face like she was asking.... And she bit me. Not hard, mind you. But a warning shot. As soon as I pulled my hand away she was loving again. I CAREFULLY put my hand towards her to sniff, since she wanted more pets. Again she bit me. Again she went back to insta love.
I tried a few different ways to approach her, just seeing what was most comfortable for her. No go. As soon as she smells Beck the fangs come out. She rubbed her cheek on everything to get HER scent on it, so I left her alone to do computer work, as is our routine. As soon as I did that she brought a toy for me and it was insta love again, until she got close. She bit my nose, when SHE was the one who rubbed against ME. I was ignoring her.

It's interesting that when I introduce Rue's smell to Beckie, Beckie ignores it and goes back to bed. I was curious and brought Beckie a collar Rue wore about a week ago before they destroyed it. I figured the scent must be strong on it. Again Beckie didn't care. But when I brought something that smelled lightly of Beckie to Rue, she went demon cat until the scent left her nose.

We're going to try being more careful with Rue, and trying some calming sprays. For now she doesn't leave my sight so I can babysit her. She just thinks it means more attention for her.

I'm very glad I asked on this site, since for some weird reason it never even crossed my mind that it's Rue being clueless. I feel very stupid now, since I rescued a cat who had NO cat skills before. She does seem to be lacking a lot of 'normal' cat skills. She is VERY good at screaming loud and running, though.

Maybe if I attack it from Rue's perspective I'll make more progress. Rue is a very, very sweet cat. She deserves love.


Becca on a cat tree I was chopping up to toss.

Rue being her usual cross-eyed self.

 

[Furballsmom]

Wow, what a crew you have, and challenges, and bless your heart for hanging in there!!
I'm sending LOTS of good, calming thoughts your way!!

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Wow, what a crew you have, and challenges, and bless your heart for hanging in there!!

Aw, thanks! All nine of mine are unexpected rescues, who all come with their own little pile of problems. Besides Socks, and Clyde - sort of - I've never gone out of my way to find them. They've just kind of shown up. My mom told me after six that we are NOT adopting more. The 9th cat was her fault. *Shrugs*


Beckie has decided to finally act out against Rue today. Rue prefers to live in my room in the basement. I have a window well since I'm in the basement, and I put a cat tree in front of the window. Beckie has now taken up eating the grass RIGHT outside the window well, right where Rue can see her. She's done this in the past, but mostly got over it. In order for me to chase her off I have to go all through the basement, through the upstairs, and clear across the yard. By the time I do that Beck is gone.

So today I bought chicken wire. I've fenced off my window for Rue. Beckie now stands on the other side of the chicken wire glaring. I've decided to use it as a training for Rue. When Rue locks on Beckie out the window, I pull out toys for Rue and distract her until Beckie leaves. I make sure to praise Rue and give her treats.

She also has a few of Beckie's favorite blankets in the room, which means she sometimes forgets herself and jumps onto one to play. It angers her for a minute, but then she goes back to her toy. It seems Rue is easily distracted. On that front I'm already making progress, I think.

Instead of treating them as the same problem I'm treating them as two separate problems that happen to overlap. It seems to be helping. My goal is to be able to have Beckie in the same room as Rue without Beckie freezing and staring.
I'm okay if they still hate each other, but stalking is a no no. It's weird, especially when she does it without the intent to attack.

 

[Furballsmom]

 

[JennKitty]

If your cats are fighting, leave them locked in different rooms. Feed them separately, and give attention to both of them! After about a week, let them into the same room to play with them together. Then start feeding them together some days later. Remember, give the same equal amount of attention to both of them, or else one may get jealous of the other. Don't try to cam down your kitty if they start hissing. Put them in separate rooms immediately. Talking to a cat when they are mad might annoy them, so give them some personal space. Make sure your kitties have separate litter boxes and separate food bowls. Hopes this helps! Good luck!

 

[KarenKat]

We only have three cats, but introducing the third took a looong time. Very similar situation in that new cat Olive was in the basement and resident Gohan would stare at her for hours, pretended like the open door was a force field that could not be crossed and anytime she poked her head into the kitchen Gohan would chase her intensely back to the basement. This actually lasted for 7 months. He could not be distracted by toys, treats, calling his name and touching him to give him reassurance or attention would cause him to chase immediately since he was so wound up. This was what helped:

• After about 3 months, there was this amazing moment where my BF - who is super bonded with Gohan since he was a feral kitten - started talking to him and calling for his attention. And they had an epic conversation, where while you couldn't understand words you could feel how anxious and upset Gohan was. This was the first time he didn't chase Olive
• We finally found one treat that Gohan would be interested in enough to almost ignore Olive
• Playing with each cat separately, and then feeding tasty wet food or wet treats around each other. Good associations, and never ended in a fight or chase
• Separating them when unsupervised.
• Olive finally realized that running away causes a chase. This was critical. Now, when she sees Gohan, she sits in place and hunkers down. Usually this can defuse tension.

Based on what you say of Rue, getting her to be confident enough to stand her ground may be the best method. Hopefully you will find the right combo of things that works for you, until you can ride off with Rue in the sunset!

 

[walli]

Just want to add the Quiet Moments Cat Treats on the list
I have a very fearful Feral and this treat works, I couldn't get her to eat the treat but it crumbles up really easy and I put it in her wet food.
Got her through a very stressful time

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

I'll be buying some calming spray today. I had to back off on the scent exchange. It wasn't helping things at all. Beckie has gone crazy, stalking Rue whenever she can now. I HAVE to keep Rue locked up or Beck will try to kill her. I had to clean up bloody pawprints last night. Ugh. If they show up in the same room they just sit and stare at each other for hours until one moves. Then the war is on and Rue goes after Beck, or Beck goes after Rue. Rue is now so upset she's taken up hiding under blankets again. Rue has also lost interest in toys, choosing instead to sleep on her comfort blanket.

Beckie refuses to let me hold her, or talk to her. She KNOWS what she's doing is wrong, and prances off whenever she's in trouble. She doesn't care.

Getting these two together is going to be harder than I thought!

 

[KarenKat]

So sorry to hear, hopefully the calming spray helps. What are you doing to separate them? Maybe if they start a staring contest you can use a piece of cardboard to separate them so it doesn’t end in bloodshed. The more egresses you have that end peacefully the more likely they will be able to be on the same room.

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

To keep them separate I'm either locking Rue in my room, or closing the basement door at night so she can pee. The problem I'm having now is that Beckie can hide/run too fast for me to catch her. I drew a very quick map of my house so you can see the problem areas.

This is the basement where Rue lives. (Green squares are doors) Beckie likes to hide under the two pianos we have down there, or the organ which I forgot to put in. They're places you can't really see her. The main problem down there is where my food dish is located.... It's RIGHT outside my room. I have it there as Kira used to live in my room, and it being upstairs terrifies him too much. It's the only place I can put it, really. Believe me, I've tried to move it.
Rue prefers to stay in my room, or the connecting bathroom. She also goes into the storage room where I have the cat's litterboxes, and the laundry room. Non of the other cats go there (They all pee outside in my garden) I DO have a door at the basement steps, but if I block off the basement it stresses out Kira as that's his living area as well. He sleeps on the piano, or by the star that says where Rue hides. I also have a giant cat tree down there Wolfie sleeps on. So while I CAN close it off, it takes away half the cat's living spaces and stresses them out, causing even more fights.
It's also my crafting/gaming room, so there's a lot of... stuff? on the floor for Beckie to hide behind. In the time it takes me to get to the piano, she's already gone up the stairs. She LOVES to scare Rue into the storage room. Rue now won't go through the hallway into my room. She will ONLY go through the bathroom to the storage room/laundry room to avoid the cats.

This is my upstairs, where I also have problems. Rue LOVES the window in the living room, and LOVES to go on the porch. If she's really brave she sneaks up to sit on them. She's comfortable in the living room, mostly. Beckie sits in the hallway, blocking off the escape route. But she sits in a way that you can't see her. She just stares.
The problem is the bottleneck in the kitchen, getting past the bar. Rue isn't brave enough, even though there's NO cats there.

If I yell at Beckie, or try to catch her, she runs into my brother's/her room and hides under a bed. Two minutes later she's back. I can't close that off since my brother is in there a lot, and we can't isolate him due to autism. Beckie is also fantastic at running out the back door, which Rue is too scared to use. The kitchen terrifies her.

You can also see roughly where my window is outside, and how I have to run all through the house to get to it. By then Beckie is long gone. I could put blinds in, I suppose, but I get so little light as it is. (I've grown up on a second story floor with a window facing the sun. Now I'm in the basement with my room facing away from the sun. Sigh)


I'm not really sure how to block them off in a way that doesn't stress out my other cats, while giving Rue a little freedom. The way it works now is she stays in my room until about 5, then I bring her up to the cat tree until about 10pm. She then gets tucked back into my room for the night. Around 7am or so I lock the cats out of the basement using the stair door, giving Rue time to pee/roam a bit. Then about 10am she has to go back into my room.

It's frustrating since now there's a bottleneck at the base of the stairs, and Blackie/Fiddle end up attacking each other as well. It's stressing out Kira, to the point where he stays outside if he can. I have to babysit HIM downstairs so his confidence isn't shot.

Normally Socks stays in the garage, Wolfie stays on the downstairs cat tree, Kira sleeps on the piano/couch downstairs, Fiddle sleeps... Everywhere. Mostly with Kira. Becca should be in my brother's room. Blackie sleeps ... Huh. I'm not sure. Clyde hangs out in the living room and my sister's room. Spoon has a box she sleeps in on top of the kitchen cabinets, and I'm sure I'm missing one.

Putting Becca in the basement just messes up everything. I'm not sure where to put the calming spray since the problem is so wide spread! I'm thinking by the pianos, and one in my room. If it helps I'll put another by the cat trees.

Right now I'm keeping them from even seeing each other, as the sight stresses out Rue too much, and makes Becca furious.