Need Advice On How To Progress Cat Introduction! New Cat, 2 Resident Cats

[radarlove413]

Another bad update. We were downstairs trying to give Dunlop solo comfort time. Cocoa went to the bottom of the stairs. Dunlop heard him, jumped up and immediately hissed/howled/chased him into the kitchen. My husband separated them and put Dunlop downstairs behind a closed door. Dunlop is wedged into a corner and will not come out, and just looks at us with angry eyes whenever we check on him. I have no idea what is going on, but this is heartbreaking. I emailed our vet to see if we could try Prozac instead of Clomicalm. I don't know what else to do at this point. Cocoa gets too stressed out being confined to a single room now, so a re-introduction could seriously negatively affect him as well.

 

[rubysmama]

You must be getting so discouraged.

 

[radarlove413]

You must be getting so discouraged.

Yes, definitely. It’d be one thing if we just had one cat that wouldn’t accept a second cat - it happens! But he’s accepted other cats before and currently lives with one. It makes us feel like we somehow screwed up in a major way.

 

[rubysmama]

Maybe cats are like people, and just don't get along with everyone.

 

[radarlove413]

Maybe cats are like people, and just don't get along with everyone.

Haha I agree! We were visiting my husband's old roommates last night, and I saw Nala, the female tabby/siamese Dunlop used to live with. Her human was asking how it was going, and we got to talking about how they lived with each other. According to him, Dunlop is the only cat she was ever able to live with, funny enough. I guess he'd go up to her sometimes, whack her a bit, then leave. Then she'd return the favor. They were both equal opponents, so they agreed to a truce of mutual respect.

No matter how this turns out though, we do know now that Dunlop would probably prefer to be an only cat if Donatello passes before him, in the future. (Donatello, on the other hand, is very social so would need a companion)

 

[stephmnichols]

Thank you! Did you experience a lot of fighting too?

Yes! Like every time they saw each other, it was Coffee running away and Maui barrelling after her, and then the loud, horrible yowling noises from another room. When we would catch up to them it was usually Coffee on the ground, growling and defensive, with Maui puffed up over top of her in an aggressive stance (sometimes just trying to look tough, sometimes with one paw raised looking like she's ready to strike), Coffee's fur everywhere - she's very fluffy and tends to "shed" it in these stressful scenarios; its not like Maui was ripping it out of her skin lol! But they've never actually hurt each other. No blood has been shed, no scratches or bites.

Anyways, they are getting better. What we do now is, whenever Maui chases Coffee, we separate and put Maui in her crate - long story, but we have a large dog crate that we were using to train her as we were dealing with inappropriate urination on her part - for 10-15 minutes so that she realizes she isn't allowed to do that. (We would do the same to Coffee, if she were the aggressor, but it never goes that way lol). We also try to ignore the sounds coming from upstairs, should there be any, as I know now that it's more theatrics than actual fighting. Maui being a brat, and Coffee being a huge drama queen - I literally watched Maui barely tap her once (I'm not kidding, it was like the politest little "um excuse me miss, you dropped five dollars back there and I picked it up for you") and Coffee just absolutely SCREAMED. Ever since then it's been easier to ignore those sounds, lol.

It is working, slowly but surely. I wouldn't leave them alone together all day yet, but they have access to each other in the house most of the time if someone is home and we've left them alone for half hour or so while we go out to the grocery store and such. They have access at night while we sleep (they are both closed into our bedroom at night), we just give Coffee a couple hours alone each day to let off some steam and use the litter box comfortably. Coffee spends most of her time on her perch when Maui is around, and is not as active as she was before, but I know she will come around. Every day she makes a little bit more progress and gets a little bit more brave and I just need to get over the guilt of "ruining her life," because I know in the end that she WILL be fine. Looking back on how far they've come is a huge motivator. And again, it has been 6 MONTHS for us; at 6 weeks they couldn't even look at each other!

I obviously can't speak for all situations, and I don't know your cats personally, but I think a lot of it is in OUR heads as well; we think it's worse than it is because we aren't used to those sounds or reactions. Cats are such creatures of habit, they take time to adjust to anything new. And they definitely pick up on our stress, too.

 

[stephmnichols]

I also have to laugh, because AS I was typing this message, Coffee jumped off her perch, onto the bed where Maui was sleeping, and chaos ensued.

 

[radarlove413]

I also have to laugh, because AS I was typing this message, Coffee jumped off her perch, onto the bed where Maui was sleeping, and chaos ensued.

Thank you, I really appreciate the reply! I'll have to look at possibly getting a bigger crate for Dunlop to train him, since the closed door time out doesn't do the trick. It sounds like your two will really adjust in another few months and they'll learn how to live with each other

Dunlop and Don have been better for the past two days again. My husband was ill and up for part of the night, so Dunlop actually hung around upstairs and had some quality time with his favorite person ever. Today, he's stalked Cocoa a bit, but no yowls. His tail has actually been up in the air for a bit, another good sign! He gets scared whenever Cocoa jumps or moves.

Cocoa had the balls to try and eat Donatello's food... right in front of him. Don looked at me in disbelief for ten seconds, then let out the biggest, loudest wet hiss and slapped Cocoa. Who realized what he did and scattered onto the counter, but there was no chase or yowls! Like you said, it's the little things to look for

 

[stephmnichols]

Like you said, it's the little things to look for

Keep us posted on their progress

 

[radarlove413]

Since my last post, Donatello and Cocoa are getting along alright. Cocoa still runs from him, but I haven't noticed any real bad bullying behaviour. Just some twitchy tail and running in with a puffed tail when Dunlop gets worked up.

Dunlop is spending a bit more time upstairs, which is good. There is still chasing and bullying when Cocoa tried to be on his same level in the room though. For the most part, Cocoa stays up high when he sees Dunlop. If he doesn't seem him though, and goes on the floor, Dunlop will go down low and then stalk/swipe at him with a meow until he either goes on the cabinets, or under a bed. It's not as bad as last week with aggression, maybe just some puffy tail. It's mostly Dunlop staring at Cocoa, then relaxing and looking like he's going to nap. Cocoa then inching forward to leave the room, but if he gets too close Dunlop hisses/swats at him until he backs up, then watches him again. It can go on for about half an hour or more, but the Dunlop walks away and lets Cocoa skitter into the kitchen. Then Dunlop will either hang around until Cocoa jumps down, and the whole thing repeats. Or, he'll just go downstairs for a while and leave Cocoa alone.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly Dunlop's deal is. I know that if he REALLY wanted to hurt Cocoa, he'd attack him until blood would be drawn, chase him everywhere, etc. Which isn't what's happening, he's just being a bully when he wants in the same space as Cocoa. I think out of a 24 hour day, he maybe spends 3 hours, max, being a jerk to Cocoa? The rest of the time, even when Cocoa is running around upstairs and playing, he will just stay downstairs and doesn't go to find him or anything.

 

[stephmnichols]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly Dunlop's deal is.

It sounds like he's just trying to establish himself as the alpha kitty, making sure Cocoa knows where he stands!
Sounds like they are making some strides though

 

[radarlove413]

It sounds like he's just trying to establish himself as the alpha kitty, making sure Cocoa knows where he stands!
Sounds like they are making some strides though

Very true! My sister is home from university this week, so she came over to see how things are. She did comment that Dunlop seems very upset and depressed, so it's good to know it's not just in my head. While she was there, Donatello crept up on Cocoa and pounced/bit him on the butt... I thought it was Don yowling, but it was actually Cocoa, who was being a drama queen and raced off to safety. I swear, if he'd just hang out with Don for a bit instead of running away every time he tried to do alpha stuff they'd be buddies soon.

I did get some powdered honeysuckle and give each cat a sock filled with it last night. It relaxes my parents cats, so I figured it wouldn't hurt. It actually made Dunlop perkier and he came upstairs, and I also witnessed him having a 30 second race downstairs, which is good! Until he saw Cocoa, and immediately hissed and got defensive again. Oh well, time will tell.

 

[radarlove413]

Update:

Dunlop got A LOT better over the weekend, depression wise. He spent lots of time upstairs, and even had a four hour long nap on our bed! He even played a bit too, but he's pretty jumpy and anxious. He did chase Cocoa when he saw him, but only some growls now instead of full on yowls, unless he was overstimulated. Cocoa basically goes to the top of the kitchen cabinets whenever he sees Dunlop now, even if he's not being aggressive. He tried to non-aggressively sniff his butt and stretch up to him a few times, but Cocoa growled and ran away. There have been a few times where he's tolerated Cocoa on the opposite end of the house, on the floor, for 30 seconds so we're calling that progress.

Don is basically waving the white flag and trying to avoid the crabby tabby when he's upset. He tried to play with Cocoa a few times and seems hurt now that Cocoa keeps running away. (Man, what did he expect after the first few weeks?!) One memorable time, he tried to share a toy and surprised Cocoa, who yowled, ran away, and ran straight into the kitchen cupboard. Which scared Dunlop, who just came running into the kitchen from a dead sleep with puffy fur.

Working with our vet, we're keeping the boys on a half tablet of Clomicalm for the next 3 weeks. (Cocoa too, to help with his anxiety and fear reaction). If Dunlop is still being a jerk, we're trying Prozac. If that doesn't work, then we can say we've tried all we can to make it work.

For the most part, Cocoa has been good. Now that Dunlop is upstairs more though, a few times he's meowed at me and sat in the sink, lifted his tail up, and almost... you know. He hasn't had any accidents, it's just his way of telling me he'd enjoy an armed escort to the litter box. But, if he does have a few accidents, I'll get a small box and put it in a safe place in the kitchen until the situation gets sorted. He's not afraid to growl or hiss at Dunlop or Don if he wants them to go away, which is good.

 

[rubysmama]

Dare I say things sound like they're improving.

 

[radarlove413]

Dare I say things sound like they're improving.

Sort-of. We caught Dunlop checking Cocoa out on the cabinets again, and the only growls were coming from Cocoa. We thought it was great. Then last night we got woken up at 4 AM by Dunlop yowling at Cocoa under our bed, and Cocoa growling back. He backed off after a bit, so we went back to sleep. This morning, we found dried pee all over an empty laundry basket in the spare bedroom that had splattered onto the carpet (where the upstairs litter box is). So, buying enzyme cleaner and hoping this isn't going to be a thing now. I feel like we take one step forward, then three steps back.

 

[rubysmama]

I feel like we take one step forward, then three steps back.

 

[stephmnichols]

I feel like we take one step forward, then three steps back.

OH I so feel this (I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at my own situation)
But again, look at the progress you've made since the beginning... It's more like 3 steps forward, and two steps back, no?

 

[radarlove413]

OH I so feel this (I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at my own situation)
But again, look at the progress you've made since the beginning... It's more like 3 steps forward, and two steps back, no?

I hope so!

Update over the past while: no more litterbox accidents thankfully. We've gotten into a routine of taking Cocoa to the box in the morning when we get up to pee, in case he's been pestered too much by the residents overnight. My husband did witness Dunlop trying to slap Cocoa out of the litterbox, so we know he's the reason why the one incident happened. (Don't worry, Dunlop did get told no and chased away after that)

Dunlop is almost back to his regular sleep upstairs in the morning schedule, then the basement in the afternoon. Donatello still wants to be friends most of the time, but Cocoa is all like NO WAY MAN. If Dunlop is being a jerk, he'll come see what's up, but he almost seems to sigh in exasperation then go back to whatever he's doing.

Dunlop has also tolerated Cocoa's presence on the floor if he's super comfortably sleeping... for a bit. Then he gets up and chases him into the kitchen. There were a few times that Cocoa came downstairs to watch me work, while both boys were sleeping, and Dunlop just watched him from his "angst couch" in the corner and didn't chase him, which was good. Ten minutes seems to be his limit though.

There was only one major incident the past few days, this morning actually. Cocoa was in the hallway waiting for breakfast, and Dunlop came down the hallway the minute Don went to leave the other room. I dunno what happened, but we heard screaming from at least 2 cats for about 30 seconds. Don had a little bit of Cocoa fur in his claws, someone took a bunch of fur out of Dunlop, and Cocoa was super "stay away from me" growling from under the bed. (but nobody is injured or scratched) Since Cocoa yowls dramatically whenever a paw touches him, hard to say what happened. Things went back to normal after everyone was fed. We're chalking it up to a barfight - nobody knows who threw the first punch, but everyone had to get into it.

Since things are a bit better than the start of the month, we're giving it another month to see how things go. Dunlop has 2 more weeks of Clomicalm left, then we can try Prozac to see if that might work better for bully behavior. (anyone tried it?)

 

[rubysmama]

then we can try Prozac to see if that might work better for bully behavior. (anyone tried it?)

I haven't, but it comes up a lot. Here's what a search found:
Search Results for Query: prozac bullying | TheCatSite

 

[pearl99]

I did try Prozac on a previous cat, for aggressio, on the vet's advice. I saw some small effect within the first week, and it was about 6 weeks to see the full effect. He did calm down, slept more. There was less aggression.
It did not solve my problem- my situation turned out to be unsolvable after a year of working with them and worse than what you are going through (sympathize with you!)- but the Prozac DID make a difference (just not enough for my two to be livable)- and Prozac kitty has a new home as the only cat and is happy as a clam.
The two I have now (in the avatar) get along. Waffles (older grey and white) will still make sure Mooshoo (black and white) knows he's boss with a smack or a swat, and it took about 4-5 months to settle.
I'm no expert but sounds like yours have made progress!