Mickey, my 27 lbs foster and his journey back to a healthy weight

[mschauer]

But, starting a few days ago he stopped finishing all the food I give him. He always ate about 3/4 of it but more often than not quite a bit was left from the last meal when I put fresh down. I think I have abused his "will eat anything" attitude by not giving him enough variety.

My advice is to Not give in to this.

When I first started Grim on his wet food diet he was the same way; ate everything I put down and then all of a sudden he didn't quite like his favourite food anymore. And then he didn't quite like another. And another. I ended up with this huge list of foods that he liked, didn't like or maybe liked. And then I realized this was ridiculous and stopped worrying about it. I put down what I wanted him to eat and didn't budge so he wouldn't end up a "picky cat." He now eats anything I put down.
I'm really glad I did because now he has allergies so there are only 3 different cans of food he can eat and there is no room for him to be picky.

You're probably right. That's the philosophy I take with my cats when they get fussy about food. But I have to be careful with Mickey. I'm trying to get him to lose weight as fast as safely possible and him not eating all that I put down can make him lose too fast. I weighted him last night and he had dropped another 1 1/2 oz. That's 6 1/2 oz in 5 days.  That's 1.6% of his body weight in less than a week. That's not enough to panic over but I don't want him to lose more than that in a week and it's only been 5 days. It's particularly important that an obese cat like Mickey not lose too fast. He could slip into hepatic lipidosis if it goes on too long. That's not a realistic concern at this point but I need to be careful.

It doesn't hurt to add a little variety anyway. So far he seems to prefer the by Nature without the Weruva mixed in. I'll probably keep giving him that with an occasional meal of by Nature mixed with Weruva. 

I'd also like to start feeding him a raw meal a few times a week. I'm having trouble determining the right amount though. I'm feeding him 145 calories a day of the Weruva/by Nature mix or by Nature by itself and that comes out to about 6 1/2 oz a day. The raw I'm giving him is Darwin Naturals chicken which is 42 calories an oz. That's as compared with 22 calories an oz with the foods I'm now feeding. When I gave him an amount of raw that should have been about 36 calories (1 meal, 145/4) he was obviously extremely hungry by next meal time. This morning I gave him an amount of the Darwin's Naturals that should be about double what I should have given him for the correct calorie amount. He seems a lot more satisfied but I don't know if I can continue to feed him that much without him starting to gain weight.

I should be able to find some raw that is lower in calories. My homemade, which I make with lean meat, I believe is about 33 calories an oz.

I'm beginning to think the calorie information provided by manufacturers is useless. I just looked at Nature's Variety Raw Chicken Formula and they say it is 65 calories an oz! What?!!! How can that possibly be?? I just looked again and they claim *all* their raw foods are 65 calories an oz!

Fortunately I have today off from work so I have today and the weekend to keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't get too hungry during my food experimenting. 

 

[minka]

Maybe you could find some treat that he Absolutely loves (like tuna juice or crushed up bits of a cat treat) and sprinkle that on his food if he decides to be a bit picky. That way if for some reason you can't get the variety in that day or week, you still know he's eating enough. :nod:

 

[mschauer]

Update Week 8

He weighted in at 24:14 (lbsz) yesterday for a one week loss of 5 oz and a total loss of 2 lbs in 2 months.  I'm pretty happy with that! 

I'd love to keep him at about that rate of loss! 

Maybe you could find some treat that he Absolutely loves (like tuna juice or crushed up bits of a cat treat) and sprinkle that on his food if he decides to be a bit picky. That way if for some reason you can't get the variety in that day or week, you still know he's eating enough.

Toppers are good for getting a cat to start eating food but Mickey was starting to eat, he just wan't finishing. 

He really seems to prefer the by Nature by itself. I think he has always finished that. I need to start keeping better track. I'm been experimenting so much that I'm not sure but I think that is true. It looks like feeding the 3 by Nature flavors and some raw is going to work well.

My big problem now is figuring out how much raw to give him. I've been giving him 1 meal a day of it. I've been using my homemade turkey mix because it is, I think, the lowest calorie of what I have access to at about 31 calories per ounce.  I'm giving him 33 g which, if my calorie information is correct, should be about the same calories as the 41 g of by Nature he gets. He still seems pretty hungry by the next meal time though. I'm going to keep a close watch on his weight the next few days and  if he starts dropping too fast I'll increase the amount of raw.

For the most part everything is going well with Mickel. None of my cats have yet to figure out that they can get through the cat flap to his room so I don't have to worry about "protecting" his food. He enjoys exploring the house although his favorite thing to do is to sleep in the middle of the living room floor in his back ... snoring. 

Something I've just noticed in the last couple of days is that because of his big belly he can't use his hind legs to scratch his hear area. It's so sad to see him stick his leg up and scratch the air. Poor boy! 

People don't let your cats get fat! 

 

[wolcar]

Congrats on the more desired weight loss rate!!!!!  It makes me sad thinking of him trying to itch and not being able to do it, the poor guy.  That can be another good measuring tool on weight loss.  You'll have to remember to post WHEN he can actually do this.  Poor Mickey.  How loud does he snore?

 

[ldg]

Update Week 8

He weighted in at 24:14 (lbsz) yesterday for a one week loss of 5 oz and a total loss of 2 lbs in 2 months.  I'm pretty happy with that! 

I'd love to keep him at about that rate of loss! 

GREAT job! YAY Mickey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aw, poor baby! Having an itch you can't scratch is SO frustrating (thankfully Gary's here to get that one spot on my back... :lol3: ).

 

[mschauer]

Congrats on the more desired weight loss rate!!!!!  It makes me sad thinking of him trying to itch and not being able to do it, the poor guy.  That can be another good measuring tool on weight loss.  You'll have to remember to post WHEN he can actually do this.  Poor Mickey.  

 That will be a good goal for him. That and when he is able to clean himself. 

 

How loud does he snore?

It's not actually all that loud. It's more cute than anything.

GREAT job! YAY Mickey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aw, poor baby! Having an itch you can't scratch is SO frustrating (thankfully Gary's here to get that one spot on my back...

).

I tried to scratch it for him but I'd didn't know where it itched. 

 

[minka]

Toppers are good for getting a cat to start eating food but Mickey was starting to eat, he just wan't finishing. 

Yes, I know. I was suggesting to put the topper on After he stops eating to get him enthused enough to finish. :nod:

Something I've just noticed in the last couple of days is that because of his big belly he can't use his hind legs to scratch his hear area. It's so sad to see him stick his leg up and scratch the air. Poor boy! 

People don't let your cats get fat! 

I remember when my cat was that big. It was funny for the first couple seconds as he would try, but then he would get this confused look on his face and it would make me feel sorry for him.

 

[mschauer]

Toppers are good for getting a cat to start eating food but Mickey was starting to eat, he just wan't finishing. 

Yes, I know. I was suggesting to put the topper on After he stops eating to get him enthused enough to finish.

Sorry, I should have explained. His meal times are 6A, noon, 6P and midnight. So the times at which I would see that he isn't going to finish his food are times when I'm either at work or asleep. It isn't until the next meal time, after the food has been down for 6 hours, that I know he isn't going to finish and I don't want to try to make him eat food that is that old.

But, for now at leasts, I don't need any tricks to get him to eat. He is finishing all his food now that I am giving him just the by Nature and raw.

Something I've just noticed in the last couple of days is that because of his big belly he can't use his hind legs to scratch his hear area. It's so sad to see him stick his leg up and scratch the air. Poor boy! 

People don't let your cats get fat! 

I remember when my cat was that big. It was funny for the first couple seconds as he would try, but then he would get this confused look on his face and it would make me feel sorry for him. 

Yeah, I feel really bad for him. I know it feels when I can't scratch an itch. 

 

[minka]

Sorry, I should have explained. His meal times are 6A, noon, 6P and midnight. So the times at which I would see that he isn't going to finish his food are times when I'm either at work or asleep. It isn't until the next meal time, after the food has been down for 6 hours, that I know he isn't going to finish and I don't want to try to make him eat food that is that old.

But, for now at leasts, I don't need any tricks to get him to eat. He is finishing all his food now that I am giving him just the by Nature and raw.

You don't have time to stand around for a few minutes at 6pm or midnight to see if he finishes? Does he eat super slow?

 

[mschauer]

You don't have time to stand around for a few minutes at 6pm or midnight to see if he finishes? Does he eat super slow?

He rarely eats all his food in one go except for the raw. He usually eats 1/2 to 3/4 and leaves the rest for later. 

I'm very familiar with using toppers to entice a cat to eat. I used them a lot when transititioning my cats to a raw diet. In Mickey's case it really isn't at all critical to get him to eat the Weruva/by Nature

mixture. If he prefers the by Nature by itself there is no reason not to just give it to him without the Weruva particularily since I have added a raw meal which will provide the extra protein that I was using the Weruva for. I don't see any reason to make things more difficult than necessary.

 

[mschauer]

Week 9 Update

Mickey weighted in at 24:9 (lbsz). That's 5 oz down since last week and right where I want him. 

 

  

That 5 oz is about 1.25% of his body weight and is actually a bit less than the 1.5% I've been targeting but I'm going to call it good enough. I really don't want to decrease his calorie intake by any more than the 145 he is currently getting. I've adjusted the target weights in my spreadsheet with the new values.

Spreadsheet

I'm giving him only by Nature (rotating 3 flavors) with no Weruva mixed in and he eats it all. I want him to have more variety though so I've started giving him raw as one of his meals. This is also the first step in moving him to an all raw diet. As I've said before, he loves raw! Currently I'm using my homemade turkey w/organs and he scarfs it up. I'll be adding rabbit within the next few days.

So for now 3 of his meals are by Nature and the 4th is raw. He still seems to be too hungry at the morning meal time which comes after the raw meal (at midnight). I may need to increase the amount of raw. I'm giving him less of it than of the by Nature because it is quite a bit higher in calories, ~33 kcal/oz vs 25 kcal/oz. 

What he is currently getting:

by Nature: 3 meals * 41 g = 123 g  = 4.3 oz

raw:          1 meal  * 33 g  =  33 g  = 1.2 oz

                                                    ======

total                                               5.5 oz

I've also given him a meal or two of Weruva by  itself and he ate it all. So it isn't that he doesn't like the Weruva. I think he just got tired of the Weruva/by Nature mix and wanted some variety. The Weruva is so low calorie I can give him 52 g of it. I'm going to add that as part of this regular meal rotation.

I took another look at Dr. Pierson's account of Bennie's weight loss program. She has updated the information since the last time I looked. Or at least I don't remember there being much information past a few months into his program.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity#Bennie_

I've been interested in Bennie's story because his starting weight, 26.5 lbs, was close to Mickey's.  It seems Bennie has been having a tough time keeping the weight off after going to his forever home.

After getting down to 17 lbs he jumped back up to over 21 lbs. Man, if that happened with Mickey... 

 

[wolcar]

Congrats on the continued weight loss.  I'm so happy for him. 

I had read Bennie's weight loss story. It's sad to see that he gained more weight. :-(

My Ulysses continues to maintain. I need to finally do a spreadsheet and have it all out on paper like you have.  I've been writing it down with pen and paper and their overall calories are down to avg of 160 verse 200, so I'm confused why there isn't any weight loss aside from the few ounces. *sigh* It's frustrating, but I'm so happy that you've had a few good weeks of weight loss for Mickey.

 

[ldg]

GO MICKEY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be your desired rate, but slow and steady wins the race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mschauer]

My Ulysses continues to maintain. I need to finally do a spreadsheet and have it all out on paper like you have.  I've been writing it down with pen and paper and their overall calories are down to avg of 160 verse 200, so I'm confused why there isn't any weight loss aside from the few ounces. *sigh* It's frustrating, but I'm so happy that you've had a few good weeks of weight loss for Mickey.

Do you separate the two of them at meal time so you really know how much Ulysses is eating?

If you look at Mickey's spreadsheet he was stuck at losing about 3 oz a week for several weeks even though I was decreasing his calories. It wasn't until I decreased to the current 145 that he started losing more. 

 

[mschauer]

GO MICKEY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It may not be your desired rate, but slow and steady wins the race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm pretty happy with him losing 1.2% of his weight per week. If he can keep that up it would be great! 

I haven't been exercising him like I should. Today I pulled out a Da Bird knock off and he went nuts over it! Sometimes I really find it hard to believe he is 8+ years old. He's really very playful. I'm sure if I just set aside 20 mins 2 or 3 times a week to give him a good play session he would lose a bit more. 

 

[wolcar]

Do you separate the two of them at meal time so you really know how much Ulysses is eating?

If you look at Mickey's spreadsheet he was stuck at losing about 3 oz a week for several weeks even though I was decreasing his calories. It wasn't until I decreased to the current 145 that he started losing more. 

I don't separate them but I watch them like hawks. Ulysses is a thief, but recently they are both finishing their food at the same time so there is no stealing going on. If Mickey is  at 145 then I'm most likely still feeding them too much.  Yesterday I cut their calories a bit more throughout the day and was a bit surprised that they weren't upset about it. he he  I'm never giving up so we will see. :-)

 

[wolcar]

I'm pretty happy with him losing 1.2% of his weight per week. If he can keep that up it would be great! 

I haven't been exercising him like I should. Today I pulled out a Da Bird knock off and he went nuts over it! Sometimes I really find it hard to believe he is 8+ years old. He's really very playful. I'm sure if I just set aside 20 mins 2 or 3 times a week to give him a good play session he would lose a bit more. 

Do you know how long Mickey was this overweight?  I imagine he just feels fantastic as the weight comes off and is catching up on some years of missing play.  It really makes me happy to hear that he's playing and becoming more of a healthy cat.  Does he play with your other cats at all?

 

[mschauer]

Do you separate the two of them at meal time so you really know how much Ulysses is eating?

If you look at Mickey's spreadsheet he was stuck at losing about 3 oz a week for several weeks even though I was decreasing his calories. It wasn't until I decreased to the current 145 that he started losing more. 

I don't separate them but I watch them like hawks. Ulysses is a thief, but recently they are both finishing their food at the same time so there is no stealing going on. If Mickey is  at 145 then I'm most likely still feeding them too much.  Yesterday I cut their calories a bit more throughout the day and was a bit surprised that they weren't upset about it. he he  I'm never giving up so we will see. :-)

You're cutting calories for both of them? Are you trying to get Gus to lose weight also? Are they losing at all now?

Don't think that because Mickey is getting 145 calories that that is how much your boys should be getting. Every cat is different. Also I'm suspicious of the calorie information we get from manufacturers. If by Nature is to be believed, Mickey is actually only getting 130 calories. They insist that their non-organic food is only 20 calories per oz. I don't see how that can be given the guaranteed  analysis. But ... 

Anyway, the number of calories your guys need to lose at a decent rate may be quite different from what Mickey needs. Just keep slowly dropping.

 

[mschauer]

Do you know how long Mickey was this overweight?  I imagine he just feels fantastic as the weight comes off and is catching up on some years of missing play.  It really makes me happy to hear that he's playing and becoming more of a healthy cat.  Does he play with your other cats at all?

No I don't but I would imagine he just kept slowly getting bigger and bigger over his entire life. That's just a guess though.

I think he does feel a lot better. He moves a lot more easily now than when I first got him. He's always been playful but he used to just stay in one spot, frequently rolled over on his back. It was hard to get him to stand up and go after a toy. Now he'll walk all over the house going after a toy I'm dragging. He'll even run in short spurts. I need to make a video of the way the plays now.

My cats have pretty much ignored Mickey so far. He has shown a little interest in playing with them but since they don't reciprocate nothing has come of it. We'll see if that changes as he gets more active and harder for them to ignore.

 

[wolcar]

You're cutting calories for both of them? Are you trying to get Gus to lose weight also? Are they losing at all now?

Don't think that because Mickey is getting 145 calories that that is how much your boys should be getting. Every cat is different. Also I'm suspicious of the calorie information we get from manufacturers. If by Nature is to be believed, Mickey is actually only getting 130 calories. They insist that their non-organic food is only 20 calories per oz. I don't see how that can be given the guaranteed  analysis. But ... 

Anyway, the number of calories your guys need to lose at a decent rate may be quite different from what Mickey needs. Just keep slowly dropping.

I have to be honest...I read what Mickey is getting and think I'm feeding mine too much because they're both much smaller than him. I'm not following Mickey's calories but it's making me  realize that I can be a bit more aggressive with the lowering as long as I'm weighing them frequently.  I don't even need to see Ulysses lose weight at a "decent" rate - Just for him to lose weight would be great. I shouldn't be so down about it he is down from a total of 18lbs to 16.4.  And unfortunately it's like he's wearing horizontal stripes every day.  The way in which his fur grows and the pattern of it makes him look so chunky too. It's just not fair to him. lol 

I'm not really lowering Gus' food. He can stand to lose a lb or two, I think, but he's being monitored :-)