Merlin Has Liquid Runs 2-3 Days Now- Any Ideas?

[Meowmee]

Merlin is an outdoor cat who I re trapped an revetted recently, see my posts about him. He has runs and nothing is working. I need ideas/ help. Below is what. I posted on his sos thread about what I have tried. He doesn't seem sick so far.

Merlin has the runs now, pure liquid for 2-3 days. I have him on flagyl but it is not working, for Quinn it works after two doses to knock out runs. I gave him some sacchoramyces boulardi as well which helps Quinn too, but it seemed to make him worse. I withheld food for 12-14 hours, water only then gave him chicken baby food and then tiny portions Quinn’s home cooked chicken diet. He had not pooped today and I hoped he was responding to the meds finally but he just pooped pure liquid twice while I was having dinner. I am not sure what to do at this point.

One problem is he is not always eating the flagyl right away, I have put it in baby food, he ate it the first time and then the second time he wouldn’t eat it so I put it in Quinn’s( my siamese cat) food and I had put it in a little bit of tuna he ate it but if I leave it there eventually he seems to eat it. There was no other way to medicate him really I am not going to try getting anything in his mouth obviously since he bit me. I collected a little stool sample tonight and if I take him to the other Dvm I will get his stool tested again. I did have his then normal stool tested when he was last revetted in August at my regular DVM but they said it was negative. I gave him drontel then anyway but just for one night because that seemed to cause him to have soft stool.

He doesn't seem to be sick etc. He is sleeping on the couch in my studio while I am not there and he is out of the cage. I caught him there when I opened the door today when I guess he didn't hear me coming etc. But I thought he was sitting there due to what looked like his fur, I wasn't sure because Quinn sits there too sometimes when we are all together.

I have scheduled an appointment for Quinn thursday with a previous dvm to do the felv vac etc. I tried to do it with my regular dvm but the receptionist was very officious when I asked about getting Merlin some more flagyl etc.( he is taken Quinn’s emergency flagyl). And also supposedly could not get me an appointment for two weeks for Quinn even though there are 6 docs there now! Unbelievable! She insisted he has to come in etc. So I said how are they going to know if he is ill etc. if he needs to be sedated for an exam etc. She had no reply. I just wonder if he will need full sedation now since he has been inside for so long. I am going to call the other dvm and see if they will see him and if they can get him in the same day maybe, but I don’t know what to expect.

This used to be a great hospital overall but their best doc retired and many others have left as well and it has been taken over by vca now. The original dvm mentioned cared for Syb and my Wizard when they were very ill and was amazing overall. Things have changed a lot. I just wonder where along the way things changed in medicine that they feel they can speak to me this way? The people at the front have not always been the greatest here, at least one was always rude, but this one is a total idiot.

Any more ideas about how I can treat his runs at home? He does not seem to be dehydrated but I am worried that could happen eventually. I gave him a little dry food, to see if that would help when he seemed ok today. Before this he had a couple of instances of some soft stool. I was trying to switch the kibble to a grain free kibble, but I switched him back and he was ok then, and then once after I gave him a tiny bit of Quinn’s home cooked, it cleared up again. Otherwise he has been on Kirkland premium chicken and rice(I think) and nine lives and some tidbits. I will post this in the illnesses forum as well.

Other than Quinn and Merlin I have never had so much trouble with food with my cats. I switched their food a lot and all was fine. I just wonder if it was the food and the runs got worse after getting better, or if it is a parasite, or something else, like ibd. Hoping not something chronic.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I would definitely get the stool tested ASAP. That should help decipher what is wrong. There is a chance he has an infection and he might need some antibiotics. Also it could be a very resistant parasite. It's so hard to know.

I always try S. boulardii first. Yet I keep that going as it can take quite a few days to work. How much are you giving him. In bad cases of diarrhea I may give 2 whole capsules per day. I have also found proviable DC probiotic to help. It also comes in a paste that can be used for a few days. I believe the paste form contains both a probiotic and kaolin.

I hope you can get the stool to the vet today. Keep us updated.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I can't offer much, but with the fecal testing, please ask for a full fecal PCR - it will not only test for parasite but bacterial issues as well. A stool sample directly from the litter box is acceptable, and although you need to confirm that with your vet, they will usually take that and test it without actually having to 'see' the cat. It's a start anyway! It can be refrigerated for up to 24 hours before getting into the vet if you can't take it right away.

 

[Meowmee]

I would definitely get the stool tested ASAP. That should help decipher what is wrong. There is a chance he has an infection and he might need some antibiotics. Also it could be a very resistant parasite. It's so hard to know.

I always try S. boulardii first. Yet I keep that going as it can take quite a few days to work. How much are you giving him. In bad cases of diarrhea I may give 2 whole capsules per day. I have also found proviable DC probiotic to help. It also comes in a paste that can be used for a few days. I believe the paste form contains both a probiotic and kaolin.

I hope you can get the stool to the vet today. Keep us updated.

Thanks, I am just adding the pumpkin now to nine lives with flagyl, furball’s mom suggested pumpkin. Because if I do both I won’t know which helped. I was only giving 1/3 capsule and he got worse after one dose. So frustrating. I made an appointment for him on Friday with a former DVM. They are going to try and see how he is and hopefully not sedate him. I asked about the stool sample and she said it has to be a fresh one but I know I have kept in the fridge a which and my other former DVM the now current one with different docs said that is fine.
But I don’t know if the sample I got is big enough. Of course today after this afternoon he has not pooped. I was in such a hurry before going to teach that I did not get another sample. But I will try to get one next time he poops.

I don’t know what to do if nothing shows up again? The last one was negative but obviously something is going on but who knows what.

Anyway I am not gonna be able to get to the DVM until Thursday earliest because I am nocturnal and I have to teach and leave in the late afternoon so there will be no time to get there. I have an appointment for Quinn TH and I may try to switch that and take Merlin there instead and drop his poop off at the same time. I don’t know, maybe it will all be cleared up by then and I don’t have to take him in but I’m still going to test his poop again anyway obviously I guess.

Since I have the SB I think I will hold off on that other probiotic I have never heard of that and I don’t know where to get it. Also I have to say that I have terrible IBS and Gerd and there is only one probiotic I can take that helps me it actually does not help my IBS it helps my reflux LOL. I tried as s boulardi myself and it gave me terrible diarrhea so I’m wondering if Merlin had the same reaction- actually most of the probiotics give me diarrhea LOL

 

[Meowmee]

I can't offer much, but with the fecal testing, please ask for a full fecal PCR - it will not only test for parasite but bacterial issues as well. A stool sample directly from the litter box is acceptable, and although you need to confirm that with your vet, they will usually take that and test it without actually having to 'see' the cat. It's a start anyway! It can be refrigerated for up to 24 hours before getting into the vet if you can't take it right away.

Thanks. Good idea I am going to try to drop off his poop on Thursday even if I don’t get him in that day. I don’t know if the sample I have is big enough it was a tiny sample and I didn’t get one this afternoon before I went to teach because I was in a big hurry. I talk to someone when I made an appointment for him on Friday however she insisted it has to be a fresh sample. Usually I keep them in the fridge overnight and all the other Dvm said that is OK though.

I have not heard of the PCR testing before maybe I had that done in the past and I have forgotten. Is that a lot more expensive than the regular test? I will ask about that hopefully they can figure out what is causing this. Or hopefully it will just clear up on its own.

I just hope I am not pouring money down the drain because his last stool test was normal and the poop was normal then to, however the DVM said obviously as I know already he could still have a parasite so I just gave him the drontel anyway.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I don’t know if the sample I have is big enough it was a tiny sample and I didn’t get one this afternoon before I went to teach because I was in a big hurry.

As far as I know it doesn't have to be much in terms of quantity, as sometimes they simply take a cotton-type swab from the cat's anus to get a sample.

I have not heard of the PCR testing before maybe I had that done in the past and I have forgotten. Is that a lot more expensive than the regular test?

The PCR will be more expensive since it is looked at by a lab and evaluated/tested for bacteria. I am not sure how much more, but you could call your vet and they would tell you the cost.

Here is a brief article on what is tested with a fecal PCR.

Feline diarrhea PCR panel

 

[Meowmee]

Thanks

As far as I know it doesn't have to be much in terms of quantity, as sometimes they simply take a cotton-type swab from the cat's anus to get a sample.


The PCR will be more expensive since it is looked at by a lab and evaluated/tested for bacteria. I am not sure how much more, but you could call your vet and they would tell you the cost.

Here is a brief article on what is tested with a fecal PCR.

Feline diarrhea PCR panel

I will ask the dvm about it tomorrow. I will bring the sample with me with Quinn. Assuming I don’t switch the appointment and bring M instead. I gave him more flagyl, and 2 capsules of s boulardi in his nine lives before I left today. He had not eaten all of it when I came home though. So that could be why it is not working if he is sometimes not getting the whole dose at once etc. I am just going to check on him a again now and give him more if he ate it. Today he pooped one soft stool so far, I thought it was more like urine because it formed a ball. It didn't seem to smell as much either maybe.

 

[Meowmee]

As far as I know it doesn't have to be much in terms of quantity, as sometimes they simply take a cotton-type swab from the cat's anus to get a sample.


The PCR will be more expensive since it is looked at by a lab and evaluated/tested for bacteria. I am not sure how much more, but you could call your vet and they would tell you the cost.

Here is a brief article on what is tested with a fecal PCR.

Feline diarrhea PCR panel

So I brought Quinn in and have pretty much switched back to this dvm. He got all his needed vacs and a check up, which was felv and rabies. Merlin had another soft poop so I added it to the sample. This Dvm did not think that I needed to do all of those tests because he said if the diarrhea had started after he was inside already for like four weeks it was not going to be caused by coronavirus and stuff like that. However I went ahead and did it anyway but it was very expensive I could hardly believe it $198 for all of those tests! I hope maybe it can help figure out what is causing this. Otherwise I just threw away $200 LOL

Aren’t the usual stool samples evaluated by Labs also though?

Merlin will be going in at 2 PM today so I better try to get some sleep soon it has been a long day and night with a lot going on and terrible blood sugar for me. This Dvm so they will try to examine him without sedation first but if he seems like he’s getting too scared etc. then they will just give him a little bit with a mask. I guess that is going to be better because he said he will come out of it quickly.

I am not sure what they gave him at my other DVM however she told me she had to give him more because he was just standing there after her big cat dose. I think she injected him. And then they told me that they had to give him a shot to wake him up, when I picked him up. OK so she was telling me I could release him the next morning but he was wobbly and out of it at pick up so I knew that would be way too soon. I’m thinking to myself are you kidding me? That was another reason he why was not released sooner.

 

[FeebysOwner]

This Dvm did not think that I needed to do all of those tests because he said if the diarrhea had started after he was inside already for like four weeks it was not going to be caused by coronavirus and stuff like that. However I went ahead and did it anyway but it was very expensive I could hardly believe it $198 for all of those tests! I hope maybe it can help figure out what is causing this. Otherwise I just threw away $200 LOL

Aren’t the usual stool samples evaluated by Labs also though?

Sorry about the expense of the testing. But, if nothing shows up, you just ruled out a whole lot of stuff. That alone is worth the cost - at least to me.

Many vets test stool samples for parasites 'in-house' and the results can be as quick as maybe 30-40 minutes. I am not sure with the PCR testing if that has to be sent off-site to a lab, but I am guessing that it does in most cases.

 

[Meowmee]

Sorry about the expense of the testing. But, if nothing shows up, you just ruled out a whole lot of stuff. That alone is worth the cost - at least to me.

Many vets test stool samples for parasites 'in-house' and the results can be as quick as maybe 30-40 minutes. I am not sure with the PCR testing if that has to be sent off-site to a lab, but I am guessing that it does in most cases.

Sometimes the tests are wrong though so I am not sure if you can ever be sure. I am sure they don’t do pcr tests there but the parasite test was done and was neg, not sure if that was the pcr. I was very exhausted today and had high bg last night for hours.

 

[daftcat75]

The fecal flotation test is looking for parasites like worms. A sample is added to a solution that makes the eggs float. Those eggs are collected and analyzed under a microscope to identify the parasite.

PCR test is what I like to call crime scene analysis. That's because if you've ever watched those true crime forensic shows where they identify the killer by DNA, they do that with the PCR test. Not to get too technical, but they start with known probe sequences of DNA from pathogens they are testing for. If they find a match, they can tell you the identity of the bacterial or viral invader based on the probe that was matched. PCR's require a higher level of equipment and expertise than a flotation test. This is why they are also more expensive.

My Krista had a negative fecal flotation but positive on the PCR for clostridium with enterotoxin A. That is one nasty bug that's been requiring large doses of saccharomyces boulardii and a switch to more digestible foods. In her case, a little bit of Tiki Cat Raw and some homemade turkey meat stock in her diet seems to be making a huge difference. Or maybe it's that I just stopped limiting the s. boulardii. She actually likes the stuff so I put out a half capsule (2.5 bln CFU) into every meal. I actually got Krista to take her metronidazole (which only worked for her for two days) by mixing it with the s. boulardii. She likes the yeast that much more than she dislikes the metro.

If you're going to mix medicine into foods, I would advise to make the medicine meal as small as possible to still get him to finish it. This reduces the anxiety of "he's not going to get his medicine if he doesn't finish his food." Then you can put out an "unpoisoned" portion of food for him to eat at his own pace (assuming Quinn won't eat it.)

 

[Meowmee]

The fecal flotation test is looking for parasites like worms. A sample is added to a solution that makes the eggs float. Those eggs are collected and analyzed under a microscope to identify the parasite.

PCR test is what I like to call crime scene analysis. That's because if you've ever watched those true crime forensic shows where they identify the killer by DNA, they do that with the PCR test. Not to get too technical, but they start with known probe sequences of DNA from pathogens they are testing for. If they find a match, they can tell you the identity of the bacterial or viral invader based on the probe that was matched. PCR's require a higher level of equipment and expertise than a flotation test. This is why they are also more expensive.

My Krista had a negative fecal flotation but positive on the PCR for clostridium with enterotoxin A. That is one nasty bug that's been requiring large doses of saccharomyces boulardii and a switch to more digestible foods. In her case, a little bit of Tiki Cat Raw and some homemade turkey meat stock in her diet seems to be making a huge difference. Or maybe it's that I just stopped limiting the s. boulardii. She actually likes the stuff so I put out a half capsule (2.5 bln CFU) into every meal. I actually got Krista to take her metronidazole (which only worked for her for two days) by mixing it with the s. boulardii. She likes the yeast that much more than she dislikes the metro.

If you're going to mix medicine into foods, I would advise to make the medicine meal as small as possible to still get him to finish it. This reduces the anxiety of "he's not going to get his medicine if he doesn't finish his food." Then you can put out an "unpoisoned" portion of food for him to eat at his own pace (assuming Quinn won't eat it.)

Thanks, Krista is adorable. Sorry she is dealing with that. That is great sb etc is helping her. When I gave Merlin some of Quinn‘s home cooked diet he seem to get soft stool so I don’t know if something in that is making him react. But he was getting a little bit at other points too when I was changing his dry food, when I switched back it stopped. I’m just wondering if part of this is from bringing him inside and the stress of all of that too. I guess there is no way to know

I know about pcr, but I had not heard of the fecal pcr tests. I read that urine pcr is not accurate for lyme disease. Blood is best I think. But any test can be wrong.

Merlin’s tests were all neg now. Hopefully something will still work assuming the tests are correct etc. otherwise there is no explanation other than diet or ibd etc. which means no hope of adoption prolly. Or even less hope because it was going to want to cat who has IBG and who potential he bites and it’s not totally tame etc. I do put it all in a very small amount, As small as possible but he’s very stubborn and sometimes just won’t eat it I don’t know why. I have not checked yet to see if he ate after I left early a.m.

I ended up mixing it in what he didn’t eat into a little bit more of the same mixture of nine lives and the new food from the DVM. He was kind of crying last night when I put him in the cage and Quinn and I were sitting with him. I’m not sure why if it was because he wants to go back outside or because he was hungry and he did not want to eat the food that was there. He is very stubborn. Quinn went over to try and comfort him which was nice of Quinn to do.

Yeah it’s gonna be difficult to navigate Quinn not eating his food I am not sure what to do. I just don’t put any food down when they are loose I guess. anyway the vet called and said Merlin has nothing contagious so I don’t have to worry about Quinn catching something if he does eat his food. I don’t know that’s assuming all these tests are correct which I know from experience they could be wrong.

 

[daftcat75]

So float and PCR came back negative?

This could be IBD from food sensitivity or IBS from stress. Have you tried feeding him a bland diet like poached chicken or poached turkey? The other thing you can try is making him a meat stock. It’s like bone broth but not cooked for so long. Simmer up some meaty joints in just enough water to cover on low heat for up to 12 hour. Long enough to cook any meat all the way through because I’m pretty sure Krista got her clostridium from an undercooked turkey drumstick in the last stock batch I made for her. I’m leaning towards stripping most of the meat off the bones the next batch I make and use less water so I get a more concentrated stock. It’s not about the meat anyway. It’s meat stock is full of collagens, glucosamine, chondroitin, minerals, and other healing nutrients. The bland diet, the meat stock, and probiotics is what I would try if he were mine.

If you follow the recipe in this link, meat stock is the strained liquid after stage 1. Stop after stage 1 for a more gentle meat stock that will still have all the same goodness but less glutamates which aren’t good for cats with digestive issues in the larger amounts that bone broth provides.
Bone Broth Is Excellent Nourishment for Older Pets

 

[Meowmee]

I don’t think I can manage all of this now with Quinn’s food etc. right now he is not eating anyway. Bone broth is not going to sustain him. I gave him a new dose of flagyl in a tiny bit 9 lives only and he only licked the juice etc. no way to tell what is going on really and the tests were prolly a waste of money.

Yep tried Quinn's chicken diet and chicken baby food only when it started after 12 hours of fast. It didn't do anything.

 

[linkworshiper]

Have you ruled out allergies? One of my cats is crazy allergic to chicken. Before I took it out of his diet, he had the runs all the time as well. I went through the same motions you did, fecal, urine test etc. Turned out that making sure his food had zero chicken in it changed his entire poop situation.

 

[Meowmee]

Have you ruled out allergies? One of my cats is crazy allergic to chicken. Before I took it out of his diet, he had the runs all the time as well. I went through the same motions you did, fecal, urine test etc. Turned out that making sure his food had zero chicken in it changed his entire poop situation.

No allergy testing etc. he has been eating the same diet as when he was outside and his poop was normal when I trapped again etc. He had some incidents of a tiny soft stool with the normal poop after drontel, it stopped, after I started swiching his food to grain free, when I switched back it stopped, after Quinn’s food, it stopped and maybe after zyrtec maybe. It was not until last week that he had complete runs etc. I don’t think it is chicken or the food. He is not eating his meds now, the flagyl in baby food, took all day but ate one dose. I am waiting for him to eat another so I can see if the fresh flagyl is helping.

He had not popped all day yesterday, so I was hoping maybe his battles for readjusting go back to normal but earlier today or yesterday he had another soft poop. I’m not sure what to do at this point I don’t know if it’s the food I mean there’s no way to tell. I don’t wanna totally switch them to something else because that’s supposed to cause diarrhea.

He seem to be very hungry either he’s barely eating anything I’m only putting the meds in a tiny bit of baby food. Yesterday I gave him another dose of drontel in the baby food and I guess he was hungry because he left it all up right away. He seems to hate the taste of the Flagyl and takes a long time to eat it if it’s at all.

He will go over and look a little bit of it and then just stop and come back and medically rub my legs etc. I bought some of those squeezable treats today and put his latest dose of Flagyl in some of that and he licked one little bit and then stopped. It was tuna flavor etc.

I came back now and he had not eaten the flagyl, maybe a tiny bit more. So I gave him some of the royal canin special diet canned and he gobbled it up. It is rabbit and pea hydrolyzed protein. I will try mixing in the remaining flagyl into some more but I am not sure how to medicate him. Maybe pills ground up in food. I am exhausted and have pulled a muscle in my hip/ back. I can barely bend.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Have you ever tried using a pill shooter to give medication? I find it fairly easy if you can handle the cat. Here is one from Amazon

 

[linkworshiper]

... back now and he had not eaten the flagyl, maybe a tiny bit more. So I gave him some of the royal canin special diet canned and he gobbled it up. It is rabbit and pea hydrolyzed protein. I will try mixing in the remaining flagyl into some more but I am not sure how to medicate him. Maybe pills ground up in food. I am exhausted and have pulled a muscle in my hip/ back. I can barely bend.

I think I mentioned grinding the pill beneath a spoon above. That's what I have to do with Zyrtec for my super allergic cat. (He licks himself raw otherwise ) He used to reject the pill if I tried any other method. I found that food with a ton of gravy masks the taste enough. Those little puree treat pouches work best.

 

[Meowmee]

Have you ever tried using a pill shooter to give medication? I find it fairly easy if you can handle the cat. Here is one from Amazon

Yes I have tried it with my other cats and never had success. Can’t try that with Merlin because of him biting me I am not attempting to do anything with his mouth etc. today while I was out at docs etc. he pooped more soft poop. He did eat ine dose early am in his special food or at least ate the rest of the dose when I mixed it in. I gave him another dose with a crushed pill in baby food, tuna and 9 lives juice but he only ate a little so he is never getting a whole dose except for the last drontel dose which he lapped up completely, in baby food. I am not sure how he is ever going to heal if I can’t medicate him.

 

[Meowmee]

I think I mentioned grinding the pill beneath a spoon above. That's what I have to do with Zyrtec for my super allergic cat. (He licks himself raw otherwise ) He used to reject the pill if I tried any other method. I found that food with a ton of gravy masks the taste enough. Those little puree treat pouches work best.

I had only mixed results with that. I ground up his zyrtec and added to tuna when he was taking that but he never ate all of it at once except one time. That happened again today, ground up his m pills, just picked them up at dvm to try instead of liquid, and he only ate a little bit. I use a pill crusher.