Lanie is wasting away...

[carolina]

Right, she is keeping all her food down now that she's on raw.  It's so reassuring to not find little piles of undigested food lying on the carpet every morning.  Unfortunately I'm still hearing vomiting noises at least once a night, up to three times a night, and in the morning I find patches of bile on the carpet, usually accompanied by a hair ball ranging in diameter from dime-size to quarter-size.  The largest one I have trouble imagining coming out of my little cat (not that I find it particularly appealing to try).  I hope this egg lecithin stuff comes in and takes effect soon!

How many times are you feeding her? Are you feeding her 3 times a day? If not, make sure you do. Sometimes bile comes from too much acid production in the beginning of raw too...... If this is happening at night, it could be that there is too long in between her dinner and breakfast (pumping up the acid production).
This can be resolved by giving her a meal right before you go to bed :nod:

Let us know how many times you are feeding her - increasing the number of meals generally helps....

The egg lecithin does help..... it is sad to think that all this hair was inside of her in a way, it is kind of good that it is coming out, I think. I don't think she is getting all these hairballs NOW. I think she is expelling them. :nod:
I think, given the severity, you probably can give 1/2 capsule every other day...... Some kitties take every day and do ok..... The problem with that is you can start having diarrhea :nod:

 

[laniecat]

It does make me feel better to think that she is expelling all of that hair that's been inside her for who knows how long!

We were feeding them three times a day when we started the canned food until they got used to not having food available at all times, then switched them to twice a day.  We'll be switching back to three times a day, much to the cats' delight I'm sure.  They'll probably insist that they're getting starved to death when they see the reduced portion of 1/4 cup each meal (they've both worked up to eating a full 6 ounces per day; Darwin's recommendation is 4-6 ounces), so we'll have to watch our step in the kitchen for a bit!  I didn't know that cats require three meals a day!  This makes scheduling a bit more complicated, but we'll work it out.

Speaking of possible diarrhea[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]....  Not a really pleasant subject, but I'm slightly concerned:  the cats' poop is now brown/white-ish and looks hard and tightly packed.  Is this normal for raw feeding?[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Thanks again for all of your support!!![/color]

 

[carolina]

It does make me feel better to think that she is expelling all of that hair that's been inside her for who knows how long!

We were feeding them three times a day when we started the canned food until they got used to not having food available at all times, then switched them to twice a day.  We'll be switching back to three times a day, much to the cats' delight I'm sure.  They'll probably insist that they're getting starved to death when they see the reduced portion of 1/4 cup each meal (they've both worked up to eating a full 6 ounces per day; Darwin's recommendation is 4-6 ounces), so we'll have to watch our step in the kitchen for a bit!  I didn't know that cats require three meals a day!  This makes scheduling a bit more complicated, but we'll work it out.

Speaking of possible diarrhea....  Not a really pleasant subject, but I'm slightly concerned:  the cats' poop is now brown/white-ish and looks hard and tightly packed.  Is this normal for raw feeding?


Thanks again for all of your support!!!

Bingo on the bile hun! This is it!!! :lol3:
Whew! Super easy fix - totally normal reaction, happens to the majority of the kitties starting on raw, for a while, actually :nod:
Go ahead and feed her 3 times. Make sure the meals are equal in size - and that you feed the late night meal as late as you can, so she doesn't go too long in between late dinner and breakast.
Here is my schedule:
around 8:45-9am (before work), around 6pm (after work), and around 11:30-12am (before bed). If I make one meal earlier, I make the following earlier too.; If I am going to be late for a meal, I feed them a bit of freeze dry chicken before, to hold acid down until the next meal.

Awwww..... you got the raw poop! Aren't they cute
:lol3::lol3::lol3:
Yes, totally normal, and shouldn't come that often either - most raw kitties poop every other day, some even every two days..... And the poop doesn't stink either - have you notice that? Ha!

 

[ldg]

Oh I think you'll be happy once you work in that third meal! I feed in the morning (before work), around dinner (after work), and then before bed. :nod: At first, if I was late for breakfast (on the weekends :lol3: ) several of them would vomit bile. Now that they've been eating raw for 8 months, it doesn't happen. But while their bodies are still adjusting, it's pretty common if there's a long time between meals. :nod:

And YES. Lighter, drier, harder poop is NORMAL. I also expect you've noticed there's much less volume coming out vs. what goes in? And the frequency is less? I have one cat out of 8 that still has a bowel movement daily. The others, it's normal for them to go every 2 - 3 days. :nod:

 

[laniecat]

I just wanted to comment that Darwin's customer service is EXCELLENT!  I emailed them late last night after their before-bed feeding requesting food sooner (as they're both eating 6 ounces per day now, and the transition period went a lot faster than expected) and they emailed me back this morning saying they'd ship out the recalculated amount.

A few hours later Lanie regurgitated the turkey, probably either because she ate it too fast (which would be odd for her, but I was only watching Lily so that Lanie wouldn't bully her away from her food) or because it was too cold - they were very demanding (and annoying) this morning so I sat their breakfast down without warming the container in water, expecting them to sniff it and wait for it to thaw... nope, they ate it cold... anyways, I emailed Darwin's back immediately explaining that I have a special needs cat and would like to stick to one flavor if it wasn't too late to change the shipment, specifically chicken because they seem to like that best, despite the fact that Darwin's likes you to feed two flavors (thinking that cats probably enjoy diversity as much as humans).  I quickly received a reply saying that they're shipping out all chicken for me - and this afternoon I got a shipment notice!

I'll see if this regurgitation happens again.  I can't remember last time Lanie actually regurgitated food right after eating.  We've still got several days of turkey left, but I doubt it was the food that caused it.  Can cold food cause regurgitation?  I doubt she ate cold food so fast that she threw up, but from now on I'll just trip over the cats until the food's warm.

 

[carolina]

Yes, for some cats, cold food will cause regurgitation, but more often than not, eating too fast is what will do it. That or too much acid.
When that happens, wait 20 minutes or so, and feed another meal - The meal that works better for me is chicken.

 

[feralvr]

I have been toying with the idea of trying Darwin's too . Nice to hear that customer service is so wonderful. My cats all seem to love their food "chilly"! Perkins is my only kitty that will IF he eats to fast. I have to slow him down. :lol3: I am not sure if eating too fast would cause vomiting hours later though :dk: I thought it would happen shortly after eating. But what do I know :lol3: SO glad that your kitties are super carnies for you! Makes life to much easier. :high5:

 

[laniecat]

Whoops, I meant she threw up a few hours after I received Darwin's first reply.  No, Lanie regurgitated right after she finished eating... practically on her food bowl.  Not in, unfortunately, but nearly.  She ate her dinner meal just fine and the kitties are currently playing.

 

[carolina]

Whoops, I meant she threw up a few hours after I received Darwin's first reply.  No, Lanie regurgitated right after she finished eating... practically on her food bowl.  Not in, unfortunately, but nearly.  She ate her dinner meal just fine and the kitties are currently playing.

Yeah - it happens...... regurgitation is not like vomit. Either the food was too cold, too much acid, or ate too fast.
To prevent too much acid by the next meal, just wait a bit - 20-30 minutes, and feed a meal to her - she should be fine :nod:
And yeah - why don't they regurgitate in their plates? Mine seem to love my Brazilian rug - it is a monstruosity to clean :wife:

 

[carolina]

Lauren, by the way, it is probably a good idea to start adding turkey - start veeeeery slowly though.
Since Lanie is so sensitive, do what I did with My Bugsy.
Add one tea spoon of the Turkey to the chicken food on the first day of the introduction - see how she does, on the vomiting and on the litterbox.
On the second day, you can do 25% turkey and 75% chicken - watch how she does. If she does well, move to 50/50 on the third day.
If she does well, on the 4th day, do 25% chicken and 75% turkey.
On the 5th day, provided she is still doing well, you can feed all turkey.

You can then start feeding one meal of each, and using any of these two meats to introduce a third protein. Do they have anything else?

I introduced all my proteins slowly like this - it took a long time, but it paid off :nod:

If you introduce lamb as the third protein, for example, you can use turkey and chicken as your "Base proteins" (like the chicken was your base protein while introducing the turkey) - you do not need to use only one base.....

I feed different meats in every single meal, and my Bugsy, which is extremely sensitive, does just fine. But I introduced him VERY slowly. Even to supplements, if I give a full dose right off the batt, he will have diarrhea.....

So yes - variety is definitely a GREAT idea - I am ALL for it - flavors AND brands :nod: just introduce them slowly - she will be fine :nod:

 

[carolina]

Also, do you have a baby scale? Are you weighing her? Is she keeping weight? Gaining? How is she doing on that?

I use a baby scale, and weigh mine every week..... It works great! :nod:

 

[laniecat]

Sorry it took me so long to reply!  I've been having "tummy" problems myself and had to undergo a minor surgery yesterday, so it's been a little rough lately.

I have good news and bad news as far as the kitties go.

The good:  Lanie has gained over a pound and a half (rough estimate, because I don't have a baby scale) since starting raw!  Also, since I added the egg yolk lecithin she has not thrown up - not even bile - regurgitated, or had a single hairball!!!!    

 and thank you!!!

Lanie's success, unfortunately, is overshadowed by Lily's new problem.  My one-and-a-half year old kitty is now showing the same signs Lanie used to!  The past three days she has vomited up all her food after lunch and dinner.  Breakfast is fine.  It happens 1-2 hours after she eats, so I don't think it's regurgitation.  It started happening on the last bit of the raw turkey and has continued on the new chicken we just received.  Originally we thought it was because she was overeating - eating too fast isn't the problem - so we have reduced her portions experimentally.  She never finishes any of her meals now, but we're not sure if that's because Lanie is intimidating her away from her food - Lanie will stare at the kitten from a good distance away and Lily will stop eating and go elsewhere, even though we won't let Lanie touch her bowl.  We're still working on feeding situations to avoid that.

Still, we're not sure why Lily's suddenly started throwing up every afternoon and night.  It's always a large (hand-sized) portion of partially digested (pink-ish) food followed by lots of (green/yellow) bile.  Today we reverted Lily to the old Blue canned food just to (hopefully) keep some food in her.  She was hungry enough that she dug in and ate about 1/3 of the can.  I gave her some anti-nausea medicine (left over from Lanie's ordeal) last night after she puked all over the bed... but I skipped it today because we need to find out if it's just the raw food causing her to vomit or if it's something else.

Could use some more 

 again!!!  

 

[carolina]

Sorry it took me so long to reply!  I've been having "tummy" problems myself and had to undergo a minor surgery yesterday, so it's been a little rough lately.

I have good news and bad news as far as the kitties go.

The good:  Lanie has gained over a pound and a half (rough estimate, because I don't have a baby scale) since starting raw!  Also, since I added the egg yolk lecithin she has not thrown up - not even bile - regurgitated, or had a single hairball!!!!      and thank you!!!


Lanie's success, unfortunately, is overshadowed by Lily's new problem.  My one-and-a-half year old kitty is now showing the same signs Lanie used to!  The past three days she has vomited up all her food after lunch and dinner.  Breakfast is fine.  It happens 1-2 hours after she eats, so I don't think it's regurgitation.  It started happening on the last bit of the raw turkey and has continued on the new chicken we just received.  Originally we thought it was because she was overeating - eating too fast isn't the problem - so we have reduced her portions experimentally.  She never finishes any of her meals now, but we're not sure if that's because Lanie is intimidating her away from her food - Lanie will stare at the kitten from a good distance away and Lily will stop eating and go elsewhere, even though we won't let Lanie touch her bowl.  We're still working on feeding situations to avoid that.

Still, we're not sure why Lily's suddenly started throwing up every afternoon and night.  It's always a large (hand-sized) portion of partially digested (pink-ish) food followed by lots of (green/yellow) bile.  Today we reverted Lily to the old Blue canned food just to (hopefully) keep some food in her.  She was hungry enough that she dug in and ate about 1/3 of the can.  I gave her some anti-nausea medicine (left over from Lanie's ordeal) last night after she puked all over the bed... but I skipped it today because we need to find out if it's just the raw food causing her to vomit or if it's something else.

Could use some more   again!!!  

GREAT NEWS on Lanie!!
Is Lily a long hair? Could this be hairballs? Try to give her a dose of laxatone, of 100% pure Vaseline for a couple of days to see what happens.... This is strange.... I have this when my kitties have hairballs.... I think this might be the case here..... The stomach works on digesting the food, the food stays there for a good hour or two.... But it can't move along. When it hits the bottom of the stomach, where the hairball is lodged, the stomach contracts causing vomit. It is quite typical.... There isn't much to do.... You can try to help to move that hairball along - try a dose of Lecithin for two days in a row, along with the vaseline two days in a row.... Aside from that, it is time to dislodging.... At least that was my vet's explananation.... I forgot all the technicalities, so I am writing as a layman - sorry about that :/

Oh, yeah, my vet DID give nausea medicine, AND ask to not give food for the kitty for 12 hours to try to calm down the digestive system.... I know that's HARD..... But.... It worked.... every time - you might want to call your vet and ask about this being hairballs 0 it is more common than one would think

 

[ldg]

Oh that IS great news about Lanie!

And for YOUR recovery - And Lily's! Please let us know how it goes on the canned. If she's still throwing up... you might want to consider x-rays just to make sure she didn't swallow something that needs to be removed. :cross: !!!!!!!

 

[laniecat]

Thanks y'all!

Well, I don't think it's hairballs.  She's short hair and I've never seen her have a hairball in her life.  I will try the lecithin on her canned food though.  We had to run errands today so I wasn't here to monitor her, but as of now I don't see any puke anywhere.

I'll let you know how the can food goes.

 

[ldg]

Well not seeing puke is a good thing. :nod: Let's hope it stays that way!

 

[laniecat]

Well, now that she's back on canned food, Lily hasn't thrown up once.  She's not eating much, however, and thankfully no longer seems to be nauseated.  We're going to start mixing the raw back in and see what happens.

Lanie threw up a hairball last night, but my fiance thinks that it's because she got into some of Lily's can food before we separated them sufficiently.  I'll keep you posted!

 

[carolina]

Well, now that she's back on canned food, Lily hasn't thrown up once.  She's not eating much, however, and thankfully no longer seems to be nauseated.  We're going to start mixing the raw back in and see what happens.

Lanie threw up a hairball last night, but my fiance thinks that it's because she got into some of Lily's can food before we separated them sufficiently.  I'll keep you posted!

Do it veeeeeeery slowly Lauren! A bit of raw on every meal, increasing the qty every day by a little bit - just like you transition kibbles - same concept. Mix a bit of the raw, see how she does. Nex day increase the qty by a bit. See how she does.... and keep going. I started my trouble boy with one TSP, and increase by one TSP at a time.
And keep up the probiotics!

 

[laniecat]

Weeelll... when I mentioned mixing the food my fiance didn't think of the "slowly" or "bit by bit" part.  For dinner he gave Lily half raw and half can food.  Exactly 40 minutes later Lily made some pitiful mrrooooow-ing noises and spewed all of her dinner onto the carpet.  (Why is it always on the carpet or the bed?  Why not aim for the hardwood floor?)  So it's definitely the raw food... which makes no sense because she did well on it for weeks.  

  Any advice on this new development?    

 

[carolina]

Weeelll... when I mentioned mixing the food my fiance didn't think of the "slowly" or "bit by bit" part.  For dinner he gave Lily half raw and half can food.  Exactly 40 minutes later Lily made some pitiful mrrooooow-ing noises and spewed all of her dinner onto the carpet.  (Why is it always on the carpet or the bed?  Why not aim for the hardwood floor?)  So it's definitely the raw food... which makes no sense because she did well on it for weeks.     Any advice on this new development?    :frusty:

No, it is not the raw food per se..... It is that her body needs to be introduced to it sloooooooowwwwwlllyyyy :nod: And you have to take it sloooooowwwwwllllyyyy

So, take a step back, and give her one - just ONE teaspoon in the canned food, and only tomorrow! :nod:
For the three meals, you will give only one teaspoon. Not 2, not three - ONE.

If she does ok, the next day you mix 2 in. You mix 2 tsp in every meal - for the three meals.
Then on the third day, you remove a teaspoon of the wet, and add 3 of the raw.....
And like that you keep going a day at a time, a teaspoon at a time, until she is eating 100% raw. It will take a bit over a week.

Take your time - this is not a race :nod:

Are you giving her probiotics every day?

Also.... as far as carpet...... Same here :wife: They can ANYWHERE - but I have this Brazilian rug that is heck to clean - they make a point ot come to the living room and in it every time :wife:

Oh the adventures of raw feeding! :lol3: