I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

UGH, another question. Finn just bit me again. I want to know if I mishandled this:
We were sitting companionably but not touching. He came over and nibbled my finger. I praised him because it was a sweet, gentle nibble. He then immediately bit my arm and drew a little blood.

I hissed at him, got my things and left the room.
Was it mean to leave the room - is that too punishing for a cat? He started yowling about 5 minutes after I left the room, and he hasn't yowled at all since the first night.

I know kittens will grow out of bitey behavior, but he's not a kitten (vet thinks he's close to 2), so this behavior is concerning. He could certainly have bitten me a lot harder had he wanted to, yet he didn't. I just can't figure out if this is a pressure thing - not knowing how hard to nibble - or if this is an aggression thing.
It also makes me wonder if perhaps this is why he is so afraid of hands - was he a pet with a biting problem who was hit when he bit? I can work with the biting of myself, but I do NOT want any biting or aggression with Charlie.

Should I not have left the room; should I have hissed and stayed? Is that going to create more issues for him if I hiss and abandon?

 

[rubysmama]

I'm just here for a minute, so can't address all your questions, but wanted to post about the bite. If you can, try to squeeze as much blood out of that bite as you can. Cat bites, and scratches, can become infected if they break the skin. Squeezing out the blood helps remove, I guess, the saliva.

Do watch the bite wound. And get it checked out by a doctor, if it shows any signs of infection. I don't mean to alarm you, but infections from cat bites can spread quickly.

Here's a couple TCS articles with more info.
Cat Bites - What Every Cat Owner Needs To Know
Ouch! More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Cat Bites | TheCatSite

 

[walli]

He may not know it's bad behavior, you will have to teach him.
I have been scruffing Joey when he gets aggressive, not too hard, and I don't lift him up off the ground, just his front feet. Some people don't agree with this but @di and bob taught me a couple things about it and I'm trying it.
I think if you read all the articles about aggressive cats, you will pick up some tips, like the hissing etc..
Finn is not that aggressive he is a cuddler, My Joey is not.

Finn is going Pee, if he wasn't that would be a reason for alarm.
He may be constipated from everything going on, just talk to your vet tho!
or he may be a little sore still!

 

[Buffster7]

I'm just here for a minute, so can't address all your questions, but wanted to post about the bite. If you can, try to squeeze as much blood out of that bite as you can. Cat bites, and scratches, can become infected if they break the skin. Squeezing out the blood helps remove, I guess, the saliva.

Do watch the bite wound. And get it checked out by a doctor, if it shows any signs of infection. I don't mean to alarm you, but infections from cat bites can spread quickly.

Here's a couple TCS articles with more info.
Cat Bites - What Every Cat Owner Needs To Know
Ouch! More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Cat Bites | TheCatSite

I'm really glad you posted this, thank you. The bite had already scabbed over, but I removed the scab and it's been leaking thin plasma-type fluid. I've rinsed it again and applied more silver spray and it keeps leaking, so I'm allowing it. I had no idea cat bites could be that nasty. I'll keep an eye on it. Fortunately it's just a pinprick, but this lets me know that I really must get a handle on this biting.

 

[Buffster7]

He may not know it's bad behavior, you will have to teach him.
I have been scruffing Joey when he gets aggressive, not too hard, and I don't lift him up off the ground, just his front feet. Some people don't agree with this but @di and bob taught me a couple things about it and I'm trying it.
I think if you read all the articles about aggressive cats, you will pick up some tips, like the hissing etc..
Finn is not that aggressive he is a cuddler, My Joey is not.

Finn is going Pee, if he wasn't that would be a reason for alarm.
He may be constipated from everything going on, just talk to your vet tho!
or he may be a little sore still!

Yes, he could still be a little sore, seeing as I found some blood smears on his blanket yesterday. Will see what my vet thinks today! Thanks.

*Edit: have you had issues with Joey biting your other cats? Once a biter, does that transfer to biting everybody/everything? Or just humans?

 

[walli]

My Cats are still separated, I have Walli the very Feral, and Joey the stray.
They are still separated because of Joey not Walli.

Let me just comfort you, your Finn is so sweet, and Charlie is reacting pretty well.
You are going to have a pretty easy time with this, it will take some work, but I can tell, you have a good situation there. I think Finn is just playing/loving and doesn't know that it hurts you. You will have to teach him, Joey is an aggressive cat and from your explanation Finn is not, I could post pics of wounds from an aggressive cat!! But Like rubysmama said always look at your bites no matter how small, the thing to look for is red streaks going from the wound
I can tell your wound will not do that, but always look!
It's usually the bites that are from a cat that is in fight mode that will cause serious wounds, when the canines go very deep.

Just take it slow as you are, you will see your cats are going to be friends!
I can tell already!

 

[Jcatbird]

In cat speak, a cat would hiss and then Sit with back turned/ not even looking to indicate dismissal of the offending individual. Try that. Don’t speak or look back unless he rubs against you to apologize.

 

[Buffster7]

In cat speak, a cat would hiss and then Sit with back turned/ not even looking to indicate dismissal of the offending individual. Try that. Don’t speak or look back unless he rubs against you to apologize.

Yesssss, this is what I need to know. How to speak cat. So rubbing up against us is how they apologize? Thank you Jcatbird !!

*Edit: Another question - hissing. How long is the hissing considered normal behavior? He hisses at me a lot, yet lets me touch him and responds with lots of affection. Then when I move, he hisses again. Hisses when I enter the room, hisses when I leave, and hisses when I move. I know he's getting used to his environment and that he's probably still extremely insecure, I'm just curious how long it usually takes for the hissing to subside.

 

[Buffster7]

My Cats are still separated, I have Walli the very Feral, and Joey the stray.
They are still separated because of Joey not Walli.

Let me just comfort you, your Finn is so sweet, and Charlie is reacting pretty well.
You are going to have a pretty easy time with this, it will take some work, but I can tell, you have a good situation there. I think Finn is just playing/loving and doesn't know that it hurts you. You will have to teach him, Joey is an aggressive cat and from your explanation Finn is not, I could post pics of wounds from an aggressive cat!! But Like rubysmama said always look at your bites no matter how small, the thing to look for is red streaks going from the wound
I can tell your wound will not do that, but always look!
It's usually the bites that are from a cat that is in fight mode that will cause serious wounds, when the canines go very deep.

Just take it slow as you are, you will see your cats are going to be friends!
I can tell already!

Your post is comforting - thanks for the reassurance! I know my situation is so very tame and that this little guy's behavior is a dream compared to the ferals that a lot of you work with, yet when I re-entered his room just now, I felt fearful. Maybe fearful is a strong word - I should say apprehensive. I know they can sense this so I would like to evict this feeling. Your post did help!

 

[walli]

Saying ow when he takes a nibble will let him know, he will look at you
like he didn't know you didn't like it!
Just starting to do this with Joey too!
Don't be scared! he is loving you so much!!
If you need to grab a toy first thing when you go in to distract him
only so you won't be afraid!

Just saw jcatbirds tip, never heard of that one! going to try it myself!

 

[Avery]

I really don't know if my idea has ANY merit (and maybe it is an obvious thing to everyone else!) but I'm wondering if the biting (and maybe even the extreme affection!) has anything to do with the fact that he was just neutered. His hormones will take a while to calm down and maybe when that happens, the biting will stop or lessen.

 

[walli]

good point!

 

[Jcatbird]

Yes. Neutering does change things. Give him time. Rubbing against you is showing affection, getting your attention, marking you as his and apologizing! Lol Turning you back dhows you are not afraid but did not like what he did.
Cat speak is a very interesting language. The hissing canninficate, nervous and letting you know, scared, a warning to back off and just generally uncomfortable with what is happening. Body posture during the hissing can’t add to the ingormstion. Is the tail flipping back and forth like a whip? Very agitated. Ears back? Probably about to strike. Hissing while backing away? Scared. Hissing, backing away but crouching as though about to spring? Probably going to attack. Moving forward while scrunched down a hissing. Look out for hands. Standing and just looking at you with a quick hi? Probably was unsure of activity. Displeased. Hissing after you touch a particular area? That area is a no go zone. Sensitive for safety or maybe hurt there now or before. The belly is a place a predator might go for. Under the neck too. Hissing if you touch there is a reminder of a vulnerable area. If he hisses, call him to you and not the other way around. Show him it’s okay that you won’t chase or hurt. Give him more adjustment time. He is happy but still nervous, May be sore and hormones have’t depleted yet.
I am going to rest. Got stung in the face by a hornet. I’ll check back later.

 

[Buffster7]

I am going to rest. Got stung in the face by a hornet. I’ll check back later.

Oh nooooo - I am so sorry! You have really been beat up these last couple weeks! Those hornets don't mess around, but you are one tough cookie. I hope that the pain recedes soon.

Hmmm, I'll have to pay attention to his body language when he's hissing for more clues. Most of the time he's just laying on the bed when I enter, no other body language than looking at me and hissing. He watches me with an open mouth, too. Wonder if that is that a clue to something. Will be more observant when he hisses.

I really don't know if my idea has ANY merit (and maybe it is an obvious thing to everyone else!) but I'm wondering if the biting (and maybe even the extreme affection!) has anything to do with the fact that he was just neutered. His hormones will take a while to calm down and maybe when that happens, the biting will stop or lessen.

That is a very good thought! I hope it all calms down with the hormones - everything would be so much easier for him. I really love the affection - but I do think being overzealous might be overstimulating for him.

I just got back from the vet where I picked up his antibiotic and de-wormer. I lucked out that he ate his food with the antibiotic in it. My vet said to change clothes and wash hands well before touching Charlie. I wonder how long these URIs last? I will have to be careful not to let them sniff each other under the door then, too. Do I need to have him tested for herpesvirus and calicivirus in case it's either one of those - is it important to know which type of URI he has? And it just occurred to me that I asked for an antibiotic but antibiotics don't treat viruses. Huh.

When I'm not researching things like tapeworm and URI and behavioral issues, I'm here posting about Finn. Thanks again for being so responsive. I'm trying to read through Jcatbird 's thread and Avery 's thread, too, and nose around the forum. So. Much. Information here!

 

[FarmersWife24]

UGH, another question. Finn just bit me again. I want to know if I mishandled this:
We were sitting companionably but not touching. He came over and nibbled my finger. I praised him because it was a sweet, gentle nibble. He then immediately bit my arm and drew a little blood.

I hissed at him, got my things and left the room.
Was it mean to leave the room - is that too punishing for a cat? He started yowling about 5 minutes after I left the room, and he hasn't yowled at all since the first night.

I know kittens will grow out of bitey behavior, but he's not a kitten (vet thinks he's close to 2), so this behavior is concerning. He could certainly have bitten me a lot harder had he wanted to, yet he didn't. I just can't figure out if this is a pressure thing - not knowing how hard to nibble - or if this is an aggression thing.
It also makes me wonder if perhaps this is why he is so afraid of hands - was he a pet with a biting problem who was hit when he bit? I can work with the biting of myself, but I do NOT want any biting or aggression with Charlie.

Should I not have left the room; should I have hissed and stayed? Is that going to create more issues for him if I hiss and abandon?

The cat needs to know that the bite is too hard. Instinctively, I say, “Ow!” in a louder volume than I typically speak. I then immediately withdraw my attention. The length of time depends on the situation. I give myself at least a minute to think over what his trigger was — Is he just learning about how much pressure to apply? Am I encouraging him to get too wound up? Is he getting enough active play time where he can use up some energy first before we practice our biting? After that minute has passed, I re-engage by doing something else with the cat and use a positive tone and we move on. If I go to pet him and he continues with the biting or swatting or whatever, “I say, “Nope, we’re not doing that, kitty,” and then I walk away. My cat, a former feral, learner pretty quickly and I also learned to better understand how I sometimes activate his triggers and contribute to his negative behaviors.

 

[Buffster7]

The cat needs to know that the bite is too hard. Instinctively, I say, “Ow!” in a louder volume than I typically speak. I then immediately withdraw my attention. The length of time depends on the situation. I give myself at least a minute to think over what his trigger was — Is he just learning about how much pressure to apply? Am I encouraging him to get too wound up? Is he getting enough active play time where he can use up some energy first before we practice our biting? After that minute has passed, I re-engage by doing something else with the cat and use a positive tone and we move on. If I go to pet him and he continues with the biting or swatting or whatever, “I say, “Nope, we’re not doing that, kitty,” and then I walk away. My cat, a former feral, learner pretty quickly and I also learned to better understand how I sometimes activate his triggers and contribute to his negative behaviors.

That's good insight, thank you! At the time of this morning's bite we were not touching, just sitting next to each other. Yesterday's bites could have been overstimulation. Shoot, at this time it could be straight up discomfort in every area; physically, mentally, etc. He has had one rough week!
You bring up a good point about getting enough play time. He certainly is not. I've been giving him plenty of time to rest as he's really run down, but perhaps he is bored in spite of that. He has some toys in here, but I will rotate a few new ones tomorrow. Thank you for sharing some ideas!

 

[FarmersWife24]

That's good insight, thank you! At the time of this morning's bite we were not touching, just sitting next to each other. Yesterday's bites could have been overstimulation. Shoot, at this time it could be straight up discomfort in every area; physically, mentally, etc. He has had one rough week!
You bring up a good point about getting enough play time. He certainly is not. I've been giving him plenty of time to rest as he's really run down, but perhaps he is bored in spite of that. He has some toys in here, but I will rotate a few new ones tomorrow. Thank you for sharing some ideas!

It can be hard to know because cats seem to be such complex (but amazing) creatures. I did a lot of reading in these forums and watched many episodes of "Psycho Kitty" and "My Cat From Hell" to try to understand behaviors and what to do about them. Each cat is different and has its own "baggage," but I firmly believe that cats understand our emotions and how we feel about them. We may startle them by movements we make -- like waving fingers in front of them (cat: "Oh, a new toy! I'm going to bit it or swat at it!") or making sudden hand movements (cat: "Where did that hand go? Is it going to smash me on top of my head?"). I have been guilty of both. But understand, some days your cat may be somewhat predictable and on others your cat will react to something that you didn't expect. It does get better. I hope your cat is feeling better soon and don't be afraid to take some time out for yourself. It's very draining trying to make a cat feel secure, comfortable, and happy. :-)

 

[Jcatbird]

Oh nooooo - I am so sorry! You have really been beat up these last couple weeks! Those hornets don't mess around, but you are one tough cookie. I hope that the pain recedes soon.

Hmmm, I'll have to pay attention to his body language when he's hissing for more clues. Most of the time he's just laying on the bed when I enter, no other body language than looking at me and hissing. He watches me with an open mouth, too. Wonder if that is that a clue to something. Will be more observant when he hisses.


That is a very good thought! I hope it all calms down with the hormones - everything would be so much easier for him. I really love the affection - but I do think being overzealous might be overstimulating for him.

I just got back from the vet where I picked up his antibiotic and de-wormer. I lucked out that he ate his food with the antibiotic in it. My vet said to change clothes and wash hands well before touching Charlie. I wonder how long these URIs last? I will have to be careful not to let them sniff each other under the door then, too. Do I need to have him tested for herpesvirus and calicivirus in case it's either one of those - is it important to know which type of URI he has? And it just occurred to me that I asked for an antibiotic but antibiotics don't treat viruses. Huh.

When I'm not researching things like tapeworm and URI and behavioral issues, I'm here posting about Finn. Thanks again for being so responsive. I'm trying to read through Jcatbird 's thread and Avery 's thread, too, and nose around the forum. So. Much. Information here!

The s tibiotics and worm meds can cause a little bit of tummy upset but does not always do that. A URI may be stopped quickly with antibiotics. Let’s hope one round of medicine will handle it. The open mouth, biting and the hissing may be a result of just feeling funky. Getting Finn settled and feeling his best can make a world of difference. Time is needed. By the way, love the name Finn.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you ladies so much. I am figuring out that his bites always come in the mornings. I think it's both an excitement and a calibration thing; just not knowing how much pressure to exert. Charlie always gives me little love nibbles on my hands when we wake up in the mornings..he 'loves me awake' with purrs, nibbles, and snuggles.

When I took Finn's breakfast in to him this morning, he was so excited to see me, desperate for attention. It didn't take long for the bite to come, but I was ready for it and corrected him before he could really latch on, and he released. After that, no more bites, but I also was moderating how much I touched him.

Last night he had liquid stools, felt warm to the touch, and was obviously not feeling very well. Very lethargic and out of it, so I just sat with him while he napped in my arms:

This one made me laugh. Looks like me in social situations:

This morning he's feeling much better!
He started to use the headboard as a scratching post and I immediately put a cardboard scratching post on the bed, and he used it instead. The furniture the guest bedroom is cheap so I'm not as worried about it, but was relieved to see how quickly he could be redirected!

Okay, straight talk here ladies. How many of you have cats that you've successfully trained not to scratch the furniture? Is that pretty much a losing battle? What are your thoughts on nail caps? Lastly, since he's got an unknown URI, should I wait to bring another cardboard scratcher in there until the virus is gone? Can the virus nest in the cardboard and reappear in my house?

 

[walli]

Aside from all he is going through, He is in heaven with a warm bed and love,
almost brings me to tears how safe he must be feeling!
He has a good life ahead of him!

I had to figure out the scratching with Walli the Feral, figured out she is a vertical scratcher, she needs things vertical to scratch on, so I made a vertical Cedar post and put it in her Catio and she uses it! she was using the catio.
I guess some cats like it on the ground and some up.

Knowing Finn He is going to catch on when you teach him!
Not sure about nail caps, too much?