I don't know what's going on but Im getting scared... 2 other cats sick

[FeralHearts]

I need ideas. I'm calling the vet in the morning.

My Mia just died of cancer on July 19th - she suddenly turned for the worse.I chalked up all the behavior at first to grieving - but this is not grieving.

My Charlie that same week (2 days before she left us) started to get sick and constipated - ultrasound says he is fine but he's thrown up 7 times yesterday while I was at work. (4 times at one lots of food) then when I returned home twice more is one lot bits of food and then later formy clear water. Today he just threw up bile and hasn't eaten much today. He got very clingy when he started not to feel well.

BH is making little cries like she's sore, acting very clinging and generally unwell. She had soft stools the other days, close to diarrhea and the only thing I can say is she is definitely off. Her belly is a little podgy to me but she has been eating more and drinking a bit more.

WL seems okay right now - but less energetic than normal. She eats the same dry but refuses the healthy mouth water now completely.

Nothing new has been brought into the home.
No new plants. No toxic plants anywhere.
No change is laundry detergents or cleaning etc.
Nothing laying around that they could get into that would be a danger.
They are indoor only.

Only two things in common: Both eat Royal Canin Hydrolysed Protein SO multifunction.
Both were drinking out of fountains with health mouth additive in it. Never been an issue. I had decided this weekend when I cleaned the fountains not to give that anymore. Reason: When Mia was sick she went off of that water and only wanted normal filter. Then the other cats went off it.

I don't understand what is going on - anyone have any thoughts or ideas - I don't even know what to ask the vet at this point.

 

[tiggerwillow]

Have they both been on the food before, or have they just started that food? If they haven't had it much before, it could be its not agreeing with them both?

Or there might be something in the bag of food that's just in that one bag? Maybe take some of the food to the vet appointment with you for in case they need to check the food?

 

[FeralHearts]

Thanks for replying.

They've both been on it a while now. Charlie for I think a couple years now. BH about 6 months. Now BH I did still mix a few bits of another food in. This way if someone throws up I'm better able to ID who.

Both have pancreatitis. BH was diagnosed by way of Ultrasound. Her fPLI came back negative. Charlie was reversed. Ultrasound a few weeks ago came back as pancreas fine but fPLI test was positive.

BH isn't exhibiting pancreatitis right now - Charlie throwing up like this could suggest it as possible. He's thrown up 4 times the last 9 days. Yesterday and today are back to back.

I can take some of the food with me for sure.

 

[tiggerwillow]

I'm wondering if theres something in royal canin, in 2014 i tried my Ebony on it, she loved the taste but she could not digest it and would throw it back up again, that was put down to her stomach issues cause some foods she could not digest

from what you said i'm wondering if its royal canin thats the problem ?

 

[FeralHearts]

It's possible.Charlies been on it for quite a while without issues but I remember reading that since covid many manufactures are altering ingredients and failing to note / label properly. So def possible here. I didn't even remember that until just now.

When we tried Mia on it - she would barf it up sometimes. Not always but I would have guessed with her it was that as away from it - she was good.

 

[cmshap]

I don't mean this in a dismissive way at all... just brainstorming out loud.

Is it possible there is a bit of confirmation bias here? Since one of your cats recently died (sorry for your loss, BTW), it can be entirely natural to examine every little thing about your other cats, and worry about them.

Not saying you're wrong at all, just saying there could be coincidental things going on, vs. one singular cause. And as you said, they have medical conditions. I don't know anything about pancreatitis in cats, but I would guess that vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, etc. are symptoms (which I'm sure you know more about than me).

 

[heatherwillard0614]

You said you have a water fountain.. I don't fully trust them. This is my personal feeling about it I have no proof if what I feel is even accurate.
I used to work at a convenience store with soda fountains they would be cleaned regularly but even at that when we had inspections they could always find bacteria and mold in places we couldn't get to to clean it.
I wonder if water fountains for pets have any areas that we just can't get to to be able to clean it. This is why I don't trust them.
Like I said I have nothing to prove or disprove this it is all a personal opinion.
You know your water fountain and clean it just try to think if there are any little tunes or anything you can't get to.
It probably isn't the water fountain it was just a thought I had.
I hope your babies feel better ASAP!

 

[cmshap]

You said you have a water fountain.. I don't fully trust them.

We are all brainstorming here, so that's worth looking at, too. Even if unlikely.

I stopped using fountains, myself, because of the cleaning process. They would always develop that slimy biofilm on the inner components, and I'd have to use a toothbrush to scrub some of the components clean. It was always a hassle. And because it was a hassle, I didn't clean it as often as I should have.

For me, washing and refilling a simple bowl is so much easier.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. I am concerned regarding the amount that Charlie is vomiting. That much vomiting could be a foreign body obstruction, severe acute pancreatitis, and many more illnesses, all of them being critical. I am not trying to scare you, but if my cat vomited that many times, I would go to an emergency vet if able.

I am glad you stopped the water additive. In the future, if using an additive to the water it is a good idea to have fresh water without additives available as well,

Regarding the food, it is possible it is a bad batch but only if all the vomiting started when you opened a new bag/case. Check for pet food recalls with that brand.

With the water fountain, do you take that thing apart and really clean it thoroughly? I have seen them get disgusting if not cleaned, but I have never seen a cat get ill from it.

I would be concerned about Charlie. If he is vomiting that much, something is wrong. Do you have a local emergency vet you can take him to? If you do, please call them.

 

[FeralHearts]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

I don't mean this in a dismissive way at all... just brainstorming out loud.

Is it possible there is a bit of confirmation bias here? Since one of your cats recently died (sorry for your loss, BTW), it can be entirely natural to examine every little thing about your other cats, and worry about them.

Not saying you're wrong at all, just saying there could be coincidental things going on, vs. one singular cause. And as you said, they have medical conditions. I don't know anything about pancreatitis in cats, but I would guess that vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, etc. are symptoms (which I'm sure you know more about than me).

Thank you. I miss her. She was the glue for all the other cats. The one they all liked. They all loved her.

You are not being dismissive at all. It's rational and that very thought crossed my mind because I'm still in shock, I'm not doing at all well with her death and am functioning - but not well. I'd be lying if I said I was. I break down quite often into tears daily. (I have to go outside or to the basement when I do as not to upset the others) Guilt, regret, anger - it's all there and I'm still trying to process and make sense of something that I can't completely. It was fast and it was awful. In all my years caretaking wee ones - I have never seen or experienced what happened to her - and so fast. So psychologically speaking - it's a very valid point.

That being said - Charlie's issues started when Mia was in the throws of her illness. He was taken to the vet and they had to give him an emema. They were concerned enough after seeing him to warrant an ultrasound. It was clean minus mineralization in the kidneys that was listed as mild.

I don't know too much about pancreatitis - I'm slowly learning though. Cats often the reason in unknown but the more I look at it the more there are other factors - like chronic inflammation - that are involved in that illness and often some form of IDB/IBS/Food sensitivities.

I hope your babies feel better ASAP!

Thanks kindly.

You said you have a water fountain.. I don't fully trust them. This is my personal feeling about it I have no proof if what I feel is even accurate.
I used to work at a convenience store with soda fountains they would be cleaned regularly but even at that when we had inspections they could always find bacteria and mold in places we couldn't get to to clean it.
I wonder if water fountains for pets have any areas that we just can't get to to be able to clean it. This is why I don't trust them.
Like I said I have nothing to prove or disprove this it is all a personal opinion.
You know your water fountain and clean it just try to think if there are any little tunes or anything you can't get to.
It probably isn't the water fountain it was just a thought I had.

We are all brainstorming here, so that's worth looking at, too. Even if unlikely.

I stopped using fountains, myself, because of the cleaning process. They would always develop that slimy biofilm on the inner components, and I'd have to use a toothbrush to scrub some of the components clean. It was always a hassle. And because it was a hassle, I didn't clean it as often as I should have.

For me, washing and refilling a simple bowl is so much easier.

Nothing invalid about the fountain either. If Charlie would drink from a bowl that would make life easier for sure. He and BH both prefer the fountains and won't drink enough without them - WL likes her bowls. SInce the vets now want him on this all dry diet - that water becomes even more important. There are two fountains and 2 bowls of water out. CORRECTION: The water bowls are changed daily (not once a week!) and the fountains are cleaned once a week. The bowls are glass. The fountains ceramic. No plastics are used for dishes of any kind.

It's a ceramic one and relatively easy to clean. No filter in them as I use filtered water now. I found the filters just got gunky and I didn't trust them at all. Charlie had a plastic drinkwell but when he got his allergies that got tossed quickly.

They are taken apart once a week and soaked in very hot water for over an hour. Then scrubbed and rinsed. It's an absolute PITA but I'll do it for them.

PetSafe

Hi. I am concerned regarding the amount that Charlie is vomiting. That much vomiting could be a foreign body obstruction, severe acute pancreatitis, and many more illnesses, all of them being critical. I am not trying to scare you, but if my cat vomited that many times, I would go to an emergency vet if able.

The worst was yesterday when I was at the office. He was fine until this afternoon around 3 pm where he tossed up stuff twice in a row. He did a good poop and pee almost right after. Really good poop - best I have seen in awhile. Which is the only reason he's not at ER right now. One of the carriers is right here with me ready.

It's okay to scare me. I'm one that prefers a brick in the head. I think sometimes we all need that. It's why I'm watching the two of them with hawk eyes. If he throws up again time today - we're heading there.

This parallel might sound weird but what he does reminds me of my Mom. If she gets diarrhea or constipation / tummy upset, she will get physically nauseous, feel like she is going to be sick and at times actually throws up as a result.

I am glad you stopped the water additive. In the future, if using an additive to the water it is a good idea to have fresh water without additives available as well,

Makes me sad as for years they all did well on it and trying to brush their teeth daily - time wise and co-operation from them - pretty hard. It's VOC approved and approved by my favorite Vet dentist. but something's up with it so I have to let it go. I'm not tossing it though. I'm seriously considering finding a lab I can send it to to see if there is an issue.

Thanks, if i ever use an additive ever again - which is doubtful at this point - I will do that. It's not something I thought as an issue.

Regarding the food, it is possible it is a bad batch but only if all the vomiting started when you opened a new bag/case. Check for pet food recalls with that brand.

That was the first thing I did. Checked for recalls. None. As like the water additive, these were newly opened just before / during Mia's illness. I even emailed the water additive company to see if something had changed. They said no and made a suggestion to add it to their food. *rolls eyes* I emailed them and then said what had transpired with the cats all suddenly rejected it - radio silence.

With the water fountain, do you take that thing apart and really clean it thoroughly? I have seen them get disgusting if not cleaned, but I have never seen a cat get ill from it.

Yes. I am absolutely sure of that as I know how unhealthy that is. I even dump the old water and then clean and rinse the sink really well before I soak them- and they are soaked in really hot water for quite some time - before I clean them.

I would be concerned about Charlie. If he is vomiting that much, something is wrong. Do you have a local emergency vet you can take him to? If you do, please call them.

That's my thoughts exactly the ultrasound was clear from the other day other than that mild mineralization in the kidneys. Bloodwork they said was good too. So I am confused and perplexed. Cats do not throw up if everything is hunky dory.

I have put the ER hospital on speed dial in case and mapped it out as I haven't been there in years. I would call ahead as currently they turn people away from being to busy. The other is an hour away. I'm going to map that one out to I think and add that number.

 

[FeralHearts]

CORRECTION: The water bowls are changed daily (not once a week!) and the fountains are cleaned once a week. The bowls are glass. The fountains ceramic. No plastics are used for dishes of any kind.

 

[silent meowlook]

It sounds like you are handling this well and will take action if need be.
I am sorry you have gone from one crisis to another.

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Hello F FeralHearts just checking in to see how Charlie is doing?

 

[FeralHearts]

It sounds like you are handling this well and will take action if need be.
I am sorry you have gone from one crisis to another.

Thanks. I am trying. It's not easy. I'm shocked I'm not in a padded room right now rocking back and forth.

Hello F FeralHearts just checking in to see how Charlie is doing?

Charlie has been stable again but this is how it's been going with him. Stable and then unstable. I will be talking to the vet today about next steps when I'm in - she wants to see BH today - sothat's who gets dragged into the doctor late this afternoon. BH was very very thirsty last night. She must have gone to the water 4 or 5 times within a 30 minute period. That's a bit alarming thought she is a good drinker - than just was a it much in such a short period.

 

[FeralHearts]

Back with BH everything looks okay on the surface but we did blood and urine just in case and I should have the results tomorrow. I could be nuts here, at least about her - and I actually hope I am on this.

Charlie is on my watch list and 'll see how it goes. So far stable and the last of the water additives are gone and cleaned out. If he stays stable the I am going to say that water additive may have been the culprit - which - is disturbing to say the least.

 

[FeralHearts]

So BH is fine according to urine and blood work (I feel nuts) but if I keep seeing what I have been then we'll need to do a follow up ultrasound. Se had one in 2021 where we discovered the IBD and pancreatitis. I re-read that report and I definitely don't like it. So I'll keep watch.

We have a plan for Charlie to watch and follow ups where / if needed. He still doesn't seem quite 100% at this point so I'm watching.

Both appear much better after removing the water additive - coincidence? I have no idea but to me there appears to be a link there. Time will tell.

What I have been reminded so often of lately is that sometimes things check boxes and they are wrong... other times something doesn't check all the boxes - and it's right. Follow my gut and don't let a failure to not check boxes or check boxes determine anything. Science sometimes only has best guesses and if it feels wrong - PUSH.

I want to thank everyone for helping to brainstorm things that weren't adding up. You reminded me of a few things that have, and will really help now, and in the future.

 

[FeralHearts]

So here's an update on the kids:

Charlie is stable but for some reason, although ultrasound and urine say pretty okay... it seems to be there is a delicate balance with him. So I still of course watch.

I did an experiment with the water additive... yeah something is up with it as within two days Charlie got off again and BH tossed her cookies. So that's not out of the house full stop. There is something up there for sure and it's not my imagination.

BH had to go for an ultrasound as she still wasn't right at all. There was a big ta-do with that and a conversation with a new receptionist (the was talking like she was a Vet tech and I thought at first she was) at the vets off that totally rubbed me the wrong way. In A LOT of ways.

Below is my rant about that experience. I had to get it off my chest or else I might have said some pretty harsh things... some justified... some maybe not. It's long.

The rant I did about that to get it off my chest.

Anyway.....

So the vet said ultrasound and so we did. The mass / unidentified cyst that was inside her bladder GONE. Her possible Emerging Small Cell Lymphoma (which is were we thought she was heading and watching on)... not a trace. Not looking a gift horse in the mouth on this one.

And now WL... (the other shoe drops)

She was brought in for her annual visit Monday... She has a heart murmur the vet didn't like ( me either) but as luck would have it there is a Cardiologist come for a visit at the clinic in Dec and we have booked her in for an Echo and ECG. There is also something weird: " high sugar in the urine and NOT the blood " apparently this is VERY rare I quote her vet now "really rare to have high sugar in the urine and NOT the blood " . Her kidney values are good though. I bring her in in two weeks to see if it's repeatable. If it is - not sure what this means.

TBH some much with all of these cats has been listed as "Rare" I'm no longer phased by the word and actually just expect it. Looks like we've upped our game from rare to really /very rare".

Here is hoping that her recheck shows it's a fluke that never amounts to anything and never happens again.

 

[Furballsmom]

Here is hoping that her recheck shows it's a fluke that never amounts to anything and never happens again.

 

[Alldara]

So BH is fine according to urine and blood work (I feel nuts) but if I keep seeing what I have been then we'll need to do a follow up ultrasound. Se had one in 2021 where we discovered the IBD and pancreatitis. I re-read that report and I definitely don't like it. So I'll keep watch.

We have a plan for Charlie to watch and follow ups where / if needed. He still doesn't seem quite 100% at this point so I'm watching.

Both appear much better after removing the water additive - coincidence? I have no idea but to me there appears to be a link there. Time will tell.

What I have been reminded so often of lately is that sometimes things check boxes and they are wrong... other times something doesn't check all the boxes - and it's right. Follow my gut and don't let a failure to not check boxes or check boxes determine anything. Science sometimes only has best guesses and if it feels wrong - PUSH.

I want to thank everyone for helping to brainstorm things that weren't adding up. You reminded me of a few things that have, and will really help now, and in the future.

It takes reports or illness to make a recall. So there's (almost) always illness before a recall.

If there was even a mistake with the machine measuring the components that could cause issues with the additives. Worse, the mixer being off could cause part of the batch to be too weak and the other part to be too strong, which might be why there's no recall.

Or build up of the additives in the lines on the fountain...there's always so many moving parts.

I'd report the illness just in case.


How are you storing the food? It's recommended to keep it in a sealed container but still in the manufacturer's bag or severe illness can happen that way as well. (Just pointing it out to prevent anything in the future, as it seems you might have it under control already.)

 

[FeralHearts]

It takes reports or illness to make a recall. So there's (almost) always illness before a recall.

If there was even a mistake with the machine measuring the components that could cause issues with the additives. Worse, the mixer being off could cause part of the batch to be too weak and the other part to be too strong, which might be why there's no recall.

Agreed - that's why I reported what was going on to the company in the beginning as I thought... if there are other reports - they need to know. The response was so wishy washy st best. It was "Have you tried giving it to them another way." I re-explained things to them and no response.

I'll be sending another one today and if it's still wishy washy I'll be informing the VOC since the product ids VOC approved.

Or build up of the additives in the lines on the fountain...there's always so many moving parts.

I checked the fountains. No sign of a build up... and to be really safe I replaced the pumps as you can't see inside them well enough to be 100% sure.

When I did my test, I put a small amount mixed in their food. I no longer use it in the fountains w/ the additive since the start of this. :-)

How are you storing the food? It's recommended to keep it in a sealed container but still in the manufacturer's bag or severe illness can happen that way as well. (Just pointing it out to prevent anything in the future, as it seems you might have it under control already.)

Maybe I'm wrong to do this???... but any dry food is stored in large, very clean and dry mason jar glass containers, away from direct or even indirect sunlight, after the bag is opened. The area it's in doesn't fluctuate temperatures much and the wet cats are stored in the same area.

Should I do something different?

Not sure how controlled I have things some days to be honest but thank you. I try hard.