How to teach cat to... not chew? (or, to eat mushy foods)

[mangojuusu]

I feel like I have a new cat food problem every week lol

So, my goals with cat food are to have it be complete/balanced, to not contribute to urinary/kidney diseases, for it to be digestible (because one of my cats has some issues with diarrhea) and for it to be reasonably affordable. And I am not having a good time finding an option that works for my cats...

The biggest problem is that they won't eat anything if they can't chew it. So, all canned and mushy food is refused, no matter what it's made out of. I thought, okay no problem, I can try to do prey model raw since that involves lots of chewing... but, I can't source beef kidney or any other secondary organ affordably. And they eat around supplement mixes, so I can't supplement the missing vitamins, which means that option isn't balanced.

I tried Young Again for a little while, but it gave one of my cats horrifyingly stinky liquid stool and she stopped using the litterbox for awhile, so let's just say that one isn't digestible.

I had them on Orijen, but the carb content is still high compared to the other foods, so I'm worried it may contribute to diseases down the line.

And I tried freeze dried raw, but they refuse it sometimes, and I also need to pay rent... so it isn't affordable.

I've also tried every texture of canned food you can think of, plus frozen raw foods, and it seems like my cats would rather starve than eat them. And now? Well, I'm tired

What I really want to be able to do is give them a chub of raw 80/10/10 with some chunked muscle meat, and supplement accordingly with Alnutrin. But I have a good feeling if I make that investment my cats will still refuse it like the other frozen raw, and they'll go on a hunger strike, which accomplishes nothing but making me feel like a bad cat mom. So... The main point of this rant is, has anyone had success getting their cats to actually eat mushy foods if they were initially very resistant? How long did it take? And if not, is there some cat food option that I'm not thinking of?

Thanks everyone

 

[EmersonandEvie]

While I haven't had this issue, there are frozen nuggets that aren't too terribly expensive. Prime frozen nuggets and Instinct nuggets come to mind. I don't know where you are, but small supply stores should have at least the Instinct nuggets for sale.

 

[Azazel]

How can the cats eat around the supplement mix if the mix is mixed into the food?

 

[mangojuusu]

While I haven't had this issue, there are frozen nuggets that aren't too terribly expensive. Prime frozen nuggets and Instinct nuggets come to mind. I don't know where you are, but small supply stores should have at least the Instinct nuggets for sale.

I've tried nuggets from Primal, patties from Vital Essentials and whatever the small things are from Smallbatch. They are a mushy texture and my cats don't want to eat them.

How can the cats eat around the supplement mix if the mix is mixed into the food?

If the mixture is chunked, the only guarantee that the cats are getting all vitamins and minerals necessary is by the cats also consuming the supplement mix. They will eat the chunks and leave the "gravy" made by the supplement mix, so I have no clue how much of the vitamins actually get into their system.

 

[Azazel]

If the mixture is chunked, the only guarantee that the cats are getting all vitamins and minerals necessary is by the cats also consuming the supplement mix. They will eat the chunks and leave the "gravy" made by the supplement mix, so I have no clue how much of the vitamins actually get into their system.

Hmm how are you making the supplement mix? I chunk the meat too and my supplement mix doesn’t form a gravy.

 

[mangojuusu]

Hmm how are you making the supplement mix? I chunk the meat too and my supplement mix doesn’t form a gravy.

They're reluctant to eat liver, so I grind the liver into a paste using a magic bullet, and I add the supplements to that. I've also done it with just water, with no luck.

I know there's a way to "sprinkle on" the supplements, but I'm honestly not sure how that would work with the Alnutrin. Do you just measure it out and mix it in with no water? And how do you know if it's coated all the meat pieces? Mine always seems sort of clumpy with water added.

 

[Azazel]

They're reluctant to eat liver, so I grind the liver into a paste using a magic bullet, and I add the supplements to that. I've also done it with just water, with no luck.

I know there's a way to "sprinkle on" the supplements, but I'm honestly not sure how that would work with the Alnutrin. Do you just measure it out and mix it in with no water? And how do you know if it's coated all the meat pieces? Mine always seems sort of clumpy with water added.

Even with adding it to mashed liver though I don’t see how it would form a gravy. I’m not familiar with Alnutrition though so maybe there is a binder in it that forms a gravy when mixed with moisture. I make my supplement mix from scratch, mix it with 1 cup of water and 4 egg yolks and pour it over my entire meat and organ mix and then mix it all together really well. I also grind my liver and have never had any problems with gravy forming.

 

[mangojuusu]

Even with adding it to mashed liver though I don’t see how it would form a gravy. I’m not familiar with Alnutrition though so maybe there is a binder in it that forms a gravy when mixed with moisture. I make my supplement mix from scratch, mix it with 1 cup of water and 4 egg yolks and pour it over my entire meat and organ mix and then mix it all together really well. I also grind my liver and have never had any problems with gravy forming.

Maybe "gravy" is too intense of a word - it's just a watery liver-juice that forms at the end. But the alnutrin uses egg yolk powder, so I'm guessing that's where the difference is. A raw egg yolk would bind the meat together somewhat but the powder just sticks instead?

 

[Azazel]

Maybe. Would you be up for making your own supplement mix?

 

[mangojuusu]

Maybe. Would you be up for making your own supplement mix?

I'm not opposed, I'm just not really sure about the Ca++ ratios, and I was scared to mess it up... How much Ca++ do you add to your boneless meats?

And for that mix (4 eggs, 1 cup water) is that for around 5lbs of meat? I know the basics of that recipe but I just want to be sure.

 

[Azazel]

The recipe I use is posted here: Post Your Recipes! (with Pics!)
You can replace turkey with chicken and if you can't source gizzards you can replace it with any muscle meat.

I use eggshell calcium instead of bone. Happy to answer any questions about the recipe.

Edit: I will say that I have slightly revised the recipe since I posted that. I now use 13.5g of egghsell and 50mg B-50 complex (one entire capsule). I also add a teaspoon of organic beef gelatin powder. And I upped the amount of fish oil to 6000mg.

 

[mangojuusu]

The recipe I use is posted here: Post Your Recipes! (with Pics!)
You can replace turkey with chicken and if you can't source gizzards you can replace it with any muscle meat.

I use eggshell calcium instead of bone. Happy to answer any questions about the recipe.

Edit: I will say that I have slightly revised the recipe since I posted that. I now use 13.5g of egghsell and 50mg B-50 complex (one entire capsule). I also add a teaspoon of organic beef gelatin powder. And I upped the amount of fish oil to 6000mg.

I do have a few questions, actually!

1. Where do you source your eggshell Ca++? Or do you make it yourself? I see you can buy pure calcium carbonate on iherb, but I'm not sure how that compares.
2. Where did you buy most of your supplements?
3. The Vit B complexes all seem to be made of different levels of B vitamin per capsule. How do you choose which complex to get?
4. The recipe you posted is from ground turkey meats with some chunks mixed in, correct? Have you made an entirely chunked recipe with that supplement mixture and still had it all stick together?
5. I noticed that you added chelated manganese, which I haven't seen on other cat food recipes. I'm not saying it's incorrect to add that (lord knows I don't know the cat food numbers perfectly) but I was wondering if that's a standard for your mix or a turkey-specific addition? One of my cats hates turkey and it's almost impossible to find one that isn't enhanced here, so I haven't been feeding it.

I just want to be extra sure this works before I invest, like, $80 in supplements. Thanks so much!

 

[Azazel]

I do have a few questions, actually!

1. Where do you source your eggshell Ca++? Or do you make it yourself? I see you can buy pure calcium carbonate on iherb, but I'm not sure how that compares.
2. Where did you buy most of your supplements?
3. The Vit B complexes all seem to be made of different levels of B vitamin per capsule. How do you choose which complex to get?
4. The recipe you posted is from ground turkey meats with some chunks mixed in, correct? Have you made an entirely chunked recipe with that supplement mixture and still had it all stick together?
5. I noticed that you added chelated manganese, which I haven't seen on other cat food recipes. I'm not saying it's incorrect to add that (lord knows I don't know the cat food numbers perfectly) but I was wondering if that's a standard for your mix or a turkey-specific addition? One of my cats hates turkey and it's almost impossible to find one that isn't enhanced here, so I haven't been feeding it.

I just want to be extra sure this works before I invest, like, $80 in supplements. Thanks so much!

I buy pre-powdered eggshell powder from a raw pet food store. There is someone local here who makes it and sells it in jars. You might be able to find something similar if you have a raw pet food store nearby. The only reason I buy it though is cause I'm lazy. It's actually pretty easy to make and most people just make it themselves (a quick google search of 'how to make eggshell powder' gives lots of results). The calcium carbonate supplement is something different. You could use that too, but you'd need different amounts than my recipe. I haven't tried it with calcium carbonate but I know that mschauer on these forums uses it.


I buy all of my supplements from iherb. Here are links to the ones I use (including vitamin B). The recipe I use was created based on the ingredients in the Now B-50 vitamins, but the one I use now is the same (Nature's way). I prefer to use it because it doesn't have some of the additional ingredients that Now B-50 has that aren't completely necessary.

Nature Made, Fish Oil, 1200 mg, 100 Softgels
Bluebonnet Nutrition, Chelated Manganese, 90 Vcaps
Nature's Way, B-50 Complex with B2 Coenzyme, 100 Capsules
Now Foods, Taurine, Pure Powder, 8 oz (227 g)
Now Foods, Real Food, Beef Gelatin Powder, 1 lb (454 g)
Now Foods, Dry E-400, Vegetarian, 100 Veggie Caps

The lite salt (important source of iodine) is Morton Lite Salt purchased from Wal-Mart. If you are not in the US then it may be hard to source Morton Lite Salt, but I know that there are similar products in other countries. You'd want to make sure that the nutrients are the same as the Morton one I use if you're using the same amount as me.

Morton Lite Salt, Low Sodium for a Heart Healthy Salt Alternative, 11 OZ Canister - Walmart.com


I make a slurry with the water, egg yolks, and all supplements (excluding eggshell and gelatin) first. Mix it all together and set aside.
Then chunk or grind/blend all of the meat and mix it all together in large bowl.
Pour the supplement slurry over the meat and mix well.
Then, I add a little extra cold water into what's left of the supplement slurry bowl to get any last bits of supplement that might be stuck and I also add the gelatin into that water and mix it before pouring it over the meat. It may or may not be necessary to mix the gelatin in separately but for whatever reason I like to do it separately with cold water.
Then, while mixing, slowly add the eggshell powder and mix well until it's completely dispersed into the meat mixture. I don't put the eggshell powder in the slurry because it's heavy and tends to sink to the bottom of the bowl and doesn't mix properly that way.

And voila - it's all done. Then portion into freezer-safe containers and you're all done.

 

[Azazel]

To answer your last 2 questions - yes, actually I did have to make an entirely chunked batch one time because I stupidly messed up my grinder parts by putting them in the dishwasher (the full fun story is here: Help! I did something really dumb...). It turned out fine. The supplements still stick to the meat. You probably want to make sure that you don't aedd too much water to make it too soupy. orange&white on these forums also makes all chunked batches and I don't think she's had a problem with supplements not sticking to the meat but maybe she has some tips and tricks.

The chelated manganese comes from mschauer 's genius calculations of nutrients. She developed a computer program to check the nutrients of recipes with those of the standards set by the AAFCO. According to her calculations manganese is missing from some of the popular recipes online and so she suggests adding it in to meet the AAFCO standards.

 

[Azazel]

If you PM me your email I can send you the complete nutrient analysis for this recipe.

 

[mangojuusu]

To answer your last 2 questions - yes, actually I did have to make an entirely chunked batch one time because I stupidly messed up my grinder parts by putting them in the dishwasher (the full fun story is here: Help! I did something really dumb...). It turned out fine. The supplements still stick to the meat. You probably want to make sure that you don't aedd too much water to make it too soupy. orange&white on these forums also makes all chunked batches and I don't think she's had a problem with supplements not sticking to the meat but maybe she has some tips and tricks.

The chelated manganese comes from mschauer 's genius calculations of nutrients. She developed a computer program to check the nutrients of recipes with those of the standards set by the AAFCO. According to her calculations manganese is missing from some of the popular recipes online and so she suggests adding it in to meet the AAFCO standards.

Thank you soooo much for putting all this together! This is an amazing resource, and it's definitely going to be helpful in the future. You're seriously the best. Wish me luck as I order all this and put it all together!

(also, I'm sorry to hear about your grinder! That doesn't sound like a fun experience. Have you re-ordered the parts yet?)

 

[Azazel]

Thank you soooo much for putting all this together! This is an amazing resource, and it's definitely going to be helpful in the future. You're seriously the best. Wish me luck as I order all this and put it all together!

(also, I'm sorry to hear about your grinder! That doesn't sound like a fun experience. Have you re-ordered the parts yet?)

Good luck!

Yep, I got all the new parts thankfully. Chunking everything is very time consuming! Much respect for those of you who do it.