Help/Advice for introductions

rubysmama

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A lot of people do think that Sapphire is older. Even when she was brought into the humane society they guessed she was 7 or 8 years old but the vet estimated around 8 months due to something with her teeth. I'll look back at pictures of her from after we got here and I see how small she was then (she weighed about 5-6 lbs when we got her and she's 12ish now.
That's a huge difference - 7 or 8 years versus 8 months! But even at 12-ish, she's a senior cat now, so no wonder she's not quick to welcome Fluffy into her home with "open paws".
 
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Graham18

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That's a huge difference - 7 or 8 years versus 8 months! But even at 12-ish, she's a senior cat now, so no wonder she's not quick to welcome Fluffy into her home with "open paws".
I apologize I meant that they thought she was 8ish years but after doing a dental check they determined she was closer to 8 months so right now she's only about 2 and a half :)
 

calicosrspecial

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A lot of people do think that Sapphire is older. Even when she was brought into the humane society they guessed she was 7 or 8 years old but the vet estimated around 8 months due to something with her teeth. I'll look back at pictures of her from after we got here and I see how small she was then (she weighed about 5-6 lbs when we got her and she's 12ish now.

Edit: I was still struggling to play with Fluffy tonight. After his wet food, he was playing with me upstairs in the bedroom for a bit before he laid down and started licking his paws. Sapphire came upstairs and was sitting a few feet away from my room and for a bit he did the little kitten crouching low to the ground run towards the gate and her but then went back up on the bed to lay down. After I brought him down to his room he was laying by the baby gates and didn't want to play. I brought him out on his harness and he seemed excited to see Sapphire again and get treats and also chew on the scratching pad. After I brought him back into his room when Sapphire was no longer interested he again just laid at his gate meowing not wanting to play with his usual favourite toys. Eventually I brought in Da Bird and he did play with that so I gave him his kibble after a few successful catches of it.

I'm wondering if he's tired (he did yawn a few times) or if he just really wants to see Sapphire.
"A lot of people do think that Sapphire is older." - It is really hard to know how old a cat is. Teeth is a good way and even that can be misleading. :/

"Even when she was brought into the humane society they guessed she was 7 or 8 years old but the vet estimated around 8 months due to something with her teeth." - Ahhhhhhh. Maybe someone misspoke at the Humane Society? I know I do sometimes. :/

" I'll look back at pictures of her from after we got here and I see how small she was then (she weighed about 5-6 lbs when we got her and she's 12ish now." - Awwwwww, she is doing great. 12lbs might be a bit heavy for her so ask the vet. We'll try to get her to play in some way as well.

"Edit: I was still struggling to play with Fluffy tonight. After his wet food, he was playing with me upstairs in the bedroom for a bit before he laid down and started licking his paws." - Ok, it happens. Do you think he had something going on with his paws?

"Sapphire came upstairs and was sitting a few feet away from my room and for a bit he did the little kitten crouching low to the ground run towards the gate and her" - Ok, sounds like he wanted to play with her?

" but then went back up on the bed to lay down." - Awwwwwwww, yep, it was play.

" After I brought him down to his room he was laying by the baby gates and didn't want to play. " - Ok, I am thinking he might be getting antsy about being in rooms. :/ It happens. Wont be much longer though.

"I brought him out on his harness and he seemed excited to see Sapphire again" - Awwwwwwwwwwww. He seems to really like ehr. What was her reaction?

"and get treats and also chew on the scratching pad." - Awwwwwwww

" After I brought him back into his room when Sapphire was no longer interested" - SO Sapphire lost interest in him and walked away? If so, GREAT!!!

"he again just laid at his gate meowing not wanting to play with his usual favourite toys." - Awwwwwww, he wants to be with her. :/

"Eventually I brought in Da Bird and he did play with that so I gave him his kibble after a few successful catches of it." - Great

"I'm wondering if he's tired (he did yawn a few times) or if he just really wants to see Sapphire." - Could be tired but I sense he is tired of being in a room and not with her. :/ But it wont be that much longer.

Sounds like it actually went really well. They are getting there!!! :)
 

rubysmama

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I apologize I meant that they thought she was 8ish years but after doing a dental check they determined she was closer to 8 months so right now she's only about 2 and a half :)
Oh, sorry, I totally misread your comments, and thought she was 12 years old now, not 12 pounds. :doh:
Anyway, 2 1/2 years is still young, so they can certainly become friends, even if she always remains queen bee of the home.:catlove:
 
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"A lot of people do think that Sapphire is older." - It is really hard to know how old a cat is. Teeth is a good way and even that can be misleading. :/

"Even when she was brought into the humane society they guessed she was 7 or 8 years old but the vet estimated around 8 months due to something with her teeth." - Ahhhhhhh. Maybe someone misspoke at the Humane Society? I know I do sometimes. :/

" I'll look back at pictures of her from after we got here and I see how small she was then (she weighed about 5-6 lbs when we got her and she's 12ish now." - Awwwwww, she is doing great. 12lbs might be a bit heavy for her so ask the vet. We'll try to get her to play in some way as well.

"Edit: I was still struggling to play with Fluffy tonight. After his wet food, he was playing with me upstairs in the bedroom for a bit before he laid down and started licking his paws." - Ok, it happens. Do you think he had something going on with his paws?

"Sapphire came upstairs and was sitting a few feet away from my room and for a bit he did the little kitten crouching low to the ground run towards the gate and her" - Ok, sounds like he wanted to play with her?

" but then went back up on the bed to lay down." - Awwwwwwww, yep, it was play.

" After I brought him down to his room he was laying by the baby gates and didn't want to play. " - Ok, I am thinking he might be getting antsy about being in rooms. :/ It happens. Wont be much longer though.

"I brought him out on his harness and he seemed excited to see Sapphire again" - Awwwwwwwwwwww. He seems to really like ehr. What was her reaction?

"and get treats and also chew on the scratching pad." - Awwwwwwww

" After I brought him back into his room when Sapphire was no longer interested" - SO Sapphire lost interest in him and walked away? If so, GREAT!!!

"he again just laid at his gate meowing not wanting to play with his usual favourite toys." - Awwwwwww, he wants to be with her. :/

"Eventually I brought in Da Bird and he did play with that so I gave him his kibble after a few successful catches of it." - Great

"I'm wondering if he's tired (he did yawn a few times) or if he just really wants to see Sapphire." - Could be tired but I sense he is tired of being in a room and not with her. :/ But it wont be that much longer.

Sounds like it actually went really well. They are getting there!!! :)
I don't think he knows how to groom himself very well. I've rarely seen him doing any grooming besides his paws but I did notice he started grooming his tummy and back the same way that Sapphire does so maybe he is learning from watching her.

They have both been good the last two days. He has been calm and the moments when I see him get a bit excited I'll lure him away with a treat. He didn't seem like he was going to lunge at all and just wanted to move slowly towards her but I don't fully trust him not to. I definitely think he does just want to go out and play with her but I did have him playing for a bit this morning.

She's also been calm. Much less hissing and growling and once she's over the treats she's just been walking away and will either go sit further away from him and watch him or jump up to her cat tree.
 
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Here's a picture of Sapphire a few months after I brought her home and when she was still tiny and not a fluff ball yet.

20200124_161115.jpg
 

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Here's a picture of Sapphire a few months after I brought her home and when she was still tiny and not a fluff ball yet.

View attachment 388719
OH MY GOODNESS is she GORGEOUS and ADORABLE!!!! :) 😍

"I don't think he knows how to groom himself very well. I've rarely seen him doing any grooming besides his paws but I did notice he started grooming his tummy and back the same way that Sapphire does so maybe he is learning from watching her." - Awwwwwwwwwwwww

"They have both been good the last two days." - Fantastic!!

" He has been calm and the moments when I see him get a bit excited I'll lure him away with a treat. " - Perfect!!!

"He didn't seem like he was going to lunge at all and just wanted to move slowly towards her but I don't fully trust him not to." - Yes but you will trust in time. That sounds really good how he is behaving.

" I definitely think he does just want to go out and play with her but I did have him playing for a bit this morning." - But for some cats a toy is never as good as another cat. :)

"She's also been calm." - Terrific

" Much less hissing and growling" - Great but that is communication so as long as it is respected it isn't the worst thing to have a cat doing to another cat,

" and once she's over the treats she's just been walking away and will either go sit further away from him and watch him or jump up to her cat tree. " - THIS is a BIG DEAL and a GREAT SIGN!!! Fantastic!!!

Keep up the great work. I think we are getting closer to a face to face no restraint. :) Sometimes for that phase the humans need more preparation than the cats. ;)
 
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OH MY GOODNESS is she GORGEOUS and ADORABLE!!!! :) 😍

"I don't think he knows how to groom himself very well. I've rarely seen him doing any grooming besides his paws but I did notice he started grooming his tummy and back the same way that Sapphire does so maybe he is learning from watching her." - Awwwwwwwwwwwww

"They have both been good the last two days." - Fantastic!!

" He has been calm and the moments when I see him get a bit excited I'll lure him away with a treat. " - Perfect!!!

"He didn't seem like he was going to lunge at all and just wanted to move slowly towards her but I don't fully trust him not to." - Yes but you will trust in time. That sounds really good how he is behaving.

" I definitely think he does just want to go out and play with her but I did have him playing for a bit this morning." - But for some cats a toy is never as good as another cat. :)

"She's also been calm." - Terrific

" Much less hissing and growling" - Great but that is communication so as long as it is respected it isn't the worst thing to have a cat doing to another cat,

" and once she's over the treats she's just been walking away and will either go sit further away from him and watch him or jump up to her cat tree. " - THIS is a BIG DEAL and a GREAT SIGN!!! Fantastic!!!

Keep up the great work. I think we are getting closer to a face to face no restraint. :) Sometimes for that phase the humans need more preparation than the cats. ;)
I'll definitely need a lot of preparation! Haha. Just the thought gives me terrible anxiety.

No new updates to report. Things have been going the same as the last few days. Sapphire gave Fluffy a good wack on the nose last night when he got too close trying to sniff her but they were eating treats only inches away from eachother with no issues.
Same thing this morning although Sapphire seemed a bit more anxious than usual. She was possibly having an off morning as I worked earlier today so I woke her up instead of the other way around.

Tonight was the same. At one point she started hitting him because he got too close to her and he started pawing back. I'm almost certain he thinks she's playing with him and he gets excited is just trying to play back. Again, they were both fine having some treats afterwards. After a few minutes Sapphire did run upstairs so I'm guessing she was just over him for the time haha.
 
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I'll definitely need a lot of preparation! Haha. Just the thought gives me terrible anxiety.

No new updates to report. Things have been going the same as the last few days. Sapphire gave Fluffy a good wack on the nose last night when he got too close trying to sniff her but they were eating treats only inches away from eachother with no issues.
Same thing this morning although Sapphire seemed a bit more anxious than usual. She was possibly having an off morning as I worked earlier today so I woke her up instead of the other way around.

Tonight was the same. At one point she started hitting him because he got too close to her and he started pawing back. I'm almost certain he thinks she's playing with him and he gets excited is just trying to play back. Again, they were both fine having some treats afterwards. After a few minutes Sapphire did run upstairs so I'm guessing she was just over him for the time haha.
This morning Sapphire was very cautious again when I brought Fluffy out. Still ate treats with him but with a bit more growling than usual. After I put Fluffy up on the window perch to watch the squirrel outside Sapphire snuck upstairs again to lay down in her room. I'm not sure why she's acting like this again the last two days.
 

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I'll definitely need a lot of preparation! Haha. Just the thought gives me terrible anxiety.

No new updates to report. Things have been going the same as the last few days. Sapphire gave Fluffy a good wack on the nose last night when he got too close trying to sniff her but they were eating treats only inches away from eachother with no issues.
Same thing this morning although Sapphire seemed a bit more anxious than usual. She was possibly having an off morning as I worked earlier today so I woke her up instead of the other way around.

Tonight was the same. At one point she started hitting him because he got too close to her and he started pawing back. I'm almost certain he thinks she's playing with him and he gets excited is just trying to play back. Again, they were both fine having some treats afterwards. After a few minutes Sapphire did run upstairs so I'm guessing she was just over him for the time haha.
"I'll definitely need a lot of preparation! Haha." - :) Most people do.

" Just the thought gives me terrible anxiety." - Yes, it is common. But since cats take on our emotions it is very important to have a positive, calm and confident feeling so the cats soak that in and feel the same. We'll make sure when we do face to face they are ready and the risk of anything bad is as low as possible. The good news is, Sapphire and Fluffy are doing great, are great cats, not mean, and are accepting each other nicely.

"No new updates to report. Things have been going the same as the last few days." - OK, good. It is honestly a bit hard to make significant progress since they are doing so well. SO it is more reinforcing at this point rather than making significant progress.

" Sapphire gave Fluffy a good wack on the nose last night when he got too close trying to sniff her" - Awwwwww, teaching moment. What did he do? How did they act after?

"but they were eating treats only inches away from eachother with no issues." - Perfect. If that happened after the whack then it was not an issue at all.

"Same thing this morning although Sapphire seemed a bit more anxious than usual. She was possibly having an off morning as I worked earlier today so I woke her up instead of the other way around." - Ahhhhhhh, ok. I am not bothered by it. Not an issue but we'll know in the next few days.

"Tonight was the same. At one point she started hitting him because he got too close to her" - Ok, it happens and actually can be helpful. We'll see how they did after.

" and he started pawing back." - Ok, defensively or offensively? How did they act after?

" I'm almost certain he thinks she's playing with him and he gets excited is just trying to play back." - Awwwwwwwww, probably. He doesn't seem like he has a mean bone in his body.

"Again, they were both fine having some treats afterwards." - GREAT!!! That tells us it was her probably teaching him manners and him accepting that she is not a threat. Perfect.

" After a few minutes Sapphire did run upstairs so I'm guessing she was just over him for the time haha. " - Hahahaha, it is great she felt like she could leave and he didn't do anything negative.

"This morning Sapphire was very cautious again when I brought Fluffy out." - Hmmmmmm, ok.

"Still ate treats with him" - Great

" but with a bit more growling than usual." - Ok, growling is just communication so if he is not doing anything to her then he is respecting the communication and it is positive (avoiding negativity).

" After I put Fluffy up on the window perch to watch the squirrel outside Sapphire snuck upstairs again to lay down in her room." - Ok, that is fine. If she left in a "normal" way it is not an issue at all.

" I'm not sure why she's acting like this again the last two days." - She is a cat. I am not at all bothered by it. Now IF she wasn't eating with him or acting really differently and he was picking up on it and confronting her then there would be some signs of issues but I am not reading anything to be worried about. In fact, I think they are doing great.

How did she act back in her room?

Keep up the great work. Your are so close that the incremental progress is difficult to see as it is so minor and tends to be repetitive. Think of it as learning to play a song or a dance routine. Just because we nail it once we still practice to get it instinctual. That is where we pretty much are now. Sure, we may hit a clinker once in a while but we pretty much know the song or dance.

Hang in there, you and they are doing great.
 
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"I'll definitely need a lot of preparation! Haha." - :) Most people do.

" Just the thought gives me terrible anxiety." - Yes, it is common. But since cats take on our emotions it is very important to have a positive, calm and confident feeling so the cats soak that in and feel the same. We'll make sure when we do face to face they are ready and the risk of anything bad is as low as possible. The good news is, Sapphire and Fluffy are doing great, are great cats, not mean, and are accepting each other nicely.

"No new updates to report. Things have been going the same as the last few days." - OK, good. It is honestly a bit hard to make significant progress since they are doing so well. SO it is more reinforcing at this point rather than making significant progress.

" Sapphire gave Fluffy a good wack on the nose last night when he got too close trying to sniff her" - Awwwwww, teaching moment. What did he do? How did they act after?

"but they were eating treats only inches away from eachother with no issues." - Perfect. If that happened after the whack then it was not an issue at all.

"Same thing this morning although Sapphire seemed a bit more anxious than usual. She was possibly having an off morning as I worked earlier today so I woke her up instead of the other way around." - Ahhhhhhh, ok. I am not bothered by it. Not an issue but we'll know in the next few days.

"Tonight was the same. At one point she started hitting him because he got too close to her" - Ok, it happens and actually can be helpful. We'll see how they did after.

" and he started pawing back." - Ok, defensively or offensively? How did they act after?

" I'm almost certain he thinks she's playing with him and he gets excited is just trying to play back." - Awwwwwwwww, probably. He doesn't seem like he has a mean bone in his body.

"Again, they were both fine having some treats afterwards." - GREAT!!! That tells us it was her probably teaching him manners and him accepting that she is not a threat. Perfect.

" After a few minutes Sapphire did run upstairs so I'm guessing she was just over him for the time haha. " - Hahahaha, it is great she felt like she could leave and he didn't do anything negative.

"This morning Sapphire was very cautious again when I brought Fluffy out." - Hmmmmmm, ok.

"Still ate treats with him" - Great

" but with a bit more growling than usual." - Ok, growling is just communication so if he is not doing anything to her then he is respecting the communication and it is positive (avoiding negativity).

" After I put Fluffy up on the window perch to watch the squirrel outside Sapphire snuck upstairs again to lay down in her room." - Ok, that is fine. If she left in a "normal" way it is not an issue at all.

" I'm not sure why she's acting like this again the last two days." - She is a cat. I am not at all bothered by it. Now IF she wasn't eating with him or acting really differently and he was picking up on it and confronting her then there would be some signs of issues but I am not reading anything to be worried about. In fact, I think they are doing great.

How did she act back in her room?

Keep up the great work. Your are so close that the incremental progress is difficult to see as it is so minor and tends to be repetitive. Think of it as learning to play a song or a dance routine. Just because we nail it once we still practice to get it instinctual. That is where we pretty much are now. Sure, we may hit a clinker once in a while but we pretty much know the song or dance.

Hang in there, you and they are doing great.
To answer your first question, after she hit him the first time he kind of flopped over on his butt and just sat there haha.

The second time, at least from the angle I was watching it didn't really see offensive or defensive. It's very similar to when she walks up to his gate and he sticks his paw out. It gets a little frantic and fast back and forth but I do think that he thinks she's playing with him from what I've seen. I break it up quickly with treats to keep it from escalation and neither seems to mind.

When Sapphire has snuck up to her room she will just lay down on the carpet and chill. This morning she did come back down to use the litter box and then went up on her tree so that's good! As I carried Fluffy up to my room she started making a thrilling sound and rolling around on the top of her cat tree and now she's sleeping downstairs instead of in her room across from Fluffy.
 

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To answer your first question, after she hit him the first time he kind of flopped over on his butt and just sat there haha.

The second time, at least from the angle I was watching it didn't really see offensive or defensive. It's very similar to when she walks up to his gate and he sticks his paw out. It gets a little frantic and fast back and forth but I do think that he thinks she's playing with him from what I've seen. I break it up quickly with treats to keep it from escalation and neither seems to mind.

When Sapphire has snuck up to her room she will just lay down on the carpet and chill. This morning she did come back down to use the litter box and then went up on her tree so that's good! As I carried Fluffy up to my room she started making a thrilling sound and rolling around on the top of her cat tree and now she's sleeping downstairs instead of in her room across from Fluffy.
"To answer your first question, after she hit him the first time he kind of flopped over on his butt and just sat there haha." - Perfect. The exact reaction I like to see. Respect.

"The second time, at least from the angle I was watching it didn't really see offensive or defensive. It's very similar to when she walks up to his gate and he sticks his paw out." - Ok

" It gets a little frantic and fast back and forth" - Ok, I would have to see it as it can be a few things.

" but I do think that he thinks she's playing with him from what I've seen." - Ok. Given everything I know about them I think you are correct.

" I break it up quickly with treats to keep it from escalation and neither seems to mind." - Great. And How they act after tells us everything. If they go back to "normal" quickly they are telling us it was no big deal.

"When Sapphire has snuck up to her room she will just lay down on the carpet and chill. " - OK, that is totally fine. In fact, it may be a sign of her accepting him as she doesn't feel the need to confront him and "defend" her territory.

"This morning she did come back down to use the litter box and then went up on her tree so that's good!" - Perfect. Tells us she is just fine.

"As I carried Fluffy up to my room she started making a thrilling sound and rolling around on the top of her cat tree" - Really????? Interesting. I wonder if she didn't want him to leave...............................

"and now she's sleeping downstairs instead of in her room across from Fluffy." - Awwwwwwww. She is such a sweetie.

Fantastic!!! I think they are doing great. Just keep up the great work. :)
 
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"To answer your first question, after she hit him the first time he kind of flopped over on his butt and just sat there haha." - Perfect. The exact reaction I like to see. Respect.

"The second time, at least from the angle I was watching it didn't really see offensive or defensive. It's very similar to when she walks up to his gate and he sticks his paw out." - Ok

" It gets a little frantic and fast back and forth" - Ok, I would have to see it as it can be a few things.

" but I do think that he thinks she's playing with him from what I've seen." - Ok. Given everything I know about them I think you are correct.

" I break it up quickly with treats to keep it from escalation and neither seems to mind." - Great. And How they act after tells us everything. If they go back to "normal" quickly they are telling us it was no big deal.

"When Sapphire has snuck up to her room she will just lay down on the carpet and chill. " - OK, that is totally fine. In fact, it may be a sign of her accepting him as she doesn't feel the need to confront him and "defend" her territory.

"This morning she did come back down to use the litter box and then went up on her tree so that's good!" - Perfect. Tells us she is just fine.

"As I carried Fluffy up to my room she started making a thrilling sound and rolling around on the top of her cat tree" - Really????? Interesting. I wonder if she didn't want him to leave...............................

"and now she's sleeping downstairs instead of in her room across from Fluffy." - Awwwwwwww. She is such a sweetie.

Fantastic!!! I think they are doing great. Just keep up the great work. :)
I don't really know what the trilling means as she has done it a few times even as long as a month ago. It's very similar to when she gets kitty zoomies and wants me to play with her.
Her going up to her room was also a very low to the ground run though she seemed to, at least this morning come back down quickly.
They were both fine tonight though I was still seeing a bit of anxiety from Sapphire. She would come fairly close to him even eating a treat from my hand a couple inches away, but after each treat I gave them, Sapphire would turn around and walk a few feet away and then come back if I brought out another treat, but nothing other than that (and a few hisses and growls haha).
 
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After the typical harness introduction this morning with no issues Fluffy watched birds from his perch and Sapphire watched from hers for a bit before she went upstairs to relax. A little while later Fluffy wanted to go exploring on his harness so I let him as I want him to feel more comfortable moving around in it. We went upstairs and Sapphire came out of her room and I could feel Fluffy starting to pull like he wanted to run to her. I figured he was getting a bit too excited so I brought him back down to his room for a rest (after a few small bites on my wrist hahah).

Nothing exciting.
 

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I don't really know what the trilling means as she has done it a few times even as long as a month ago. It's very similar to when she gets kitty zoomies and wants me to play with her.
Her going up to her room was also a very low to the ground run though she seemed to, at least this morning come back down quickly.
They were both fine tonight though I was still seeing a bit of anxiety from Sapphire. She would come fairly close to him even eating a treat from my hand a couple inches away, but after each treat I gave them, Sapphire would turn around and walk a few feet away and then come back if I brought out another treat, but nothing other than that (and a few hisses and growls haha).
"I don't really know what the trilling means as she has done it a few times even as long as a month ago. It's very similar to when she gets kitty zoomies and wants me to play with her." - Ok. Given that it sounds positive. When we are not sure we look at body language and actions and context to try to figure it out.

"Her going up to her room was also a very low to the ground run" -:( Ok, well, tells us she isn't trusting yet. BUT if he doesn't do anything negative she will trust him. Could there have been something else (outside) that might have caused it?

" though she seemed to, at least this morning come back down quickly." - Ok, so normal?

"They were both fine tonight" - Great

" though I was still seeing a bit of anxiety from Sapphire." - Ok

" She would come fairly close to him even eating a treat from my hand a couple inches away," - THAT is GREAT. She can't be that fearful.

"but after each treat I gave them, Sapphire would turn around and walk a few feet away " - Ok, that is fine, not an issue at all.

"and then come back if I brought out another treat, but nothing other than that (and a few hisses and growls haha). " - Hmmmm, I wonder if it was just a bit of a game.

So other than running low to the ground upstairs I would say the update is great. And I am not all that worried about the running low to the ground. Just tells us she is not there yet and as long as he doesn't chase etc she'll learn to trust.

"After the typical harness introduction this morning with no issues Fluffy watched birds from his perch and Sapphire watched from hers for a bit before she went upstairs to relax." - Sounds great

" A little while later Fluffy wanted to go exploring on his harness so I let him as I want him to feel more comfortable moving around in it." - Great

" We went upstairs" - Do you think he was looking for her?

" and Sapphire came out of her room" - Good sign. Do you think she wanted to see him? how was her body language?

" and I could feel Fluffy starting to pull like he wanted to run to her. I figured he was getting a bit too excited so I brought him back down to his room for a rest" - Ok, try to make it seem like it is his idea. Use a toy, a treat etc.

" (after a few small bites on my wrist hahah)." - :/ Well, we don't want that. Using a toy or a treat might help eliminate that.

"Nothing exciting." - Sounds pretty good actually and could even be better depending on the intent of each. But I don't like the nibbling even though he didn't mean anything by it.

I am just wondering if there was a non-Fluffy reason for her running upstairs low to the ground. Hmmmmmmmm. Maybe it is jsut she is not there yet but all other interactions seem so positive and not suggestive of her acting like that (often so maybe it was a one off thing).

Keep up the great work!!! Sounds great.
 
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Graham18

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"I don't really know what the trilling means as she has done it a few times even as long as a month ago. It's very similar to when she gets kitty zoomies and wants me to play with her." - Ok. Given that it sounds positive. When we are not sure we look at body language and actions and context to try to figure it out.

"Her going up to her room was also a very low to the ground run" -:( Ok, well, tells us she isn't trusting yet. BUT if he doesn't do anything negative she will trust him. Could there have been something else (outside) that might have caused it?

" though she seemed to, at least this morning come back down quickly." - Ok, so normal?

"They were both fine tonight" - Great

" though I was still seeing a bit of anxiety from Sapphire." - Ok

" She would come fairly close to him even eating a treat from my hand a couple inches away," - THAT is GREAT. She can't be that fearful.

"but after each treat I gave them, Sapphire would turn around and walk a few feet away " - Ok, that is fine, not an issue at all.

"and then come back if I brought out another treat, but nothing other than that (and a few hisses and growls haha). " - Hmmmm, I wonder if it was just a bit of a game.

So other than running low to the ground upstairs I would say the update is great. And I am not all that worried about the running low to the ground. Just tells us she is not there yet and as long as he doesn't chase etc she'll learn to trust.

"After the typical harness introduction this morning with no issues Fluffy watched birds from his perch and Sapphire watched from hers for a bit before she went upstairs to relax." - Sounds great

" A little while later Fluffy wanted to go exploring on his harness so I let him as I want him to feel more comfortable moving around in it." - Great

" We went upstairs" - Do you think he was looking for her?

" and Sapphire came out of her room" - Good sign. Do you think she wanted to see him? how was her body language?

" and I could feel Fluffy starting to pull like he wanted to run to her. I figured he was getting a bit too excited so I brought him back down to his room for a rest" - Ok, try to make it seem like it is his idea. Use a toy, a treat etc.

" (after a few small bites on my wrist hahah)." - :/ Well, we don't want that. Using a toy or a treat might help eliminate that.

"Nothing exciting." - Sounds pretty good actually and could even be better depending on the intent of each. But I don't like the nibbling even though he didn't mean anything by it.

I am just wondering if there was a non-Fluffy reason for her running upstairs low to the ground. Hmmmmmmmm. Maybe it is jsut she is not there yet but all other interactions seem so positive and not suggestive of her acting like that (often so maybe it was a one off thing).

Keep up the great work!!! Sounds great.
I did speak a bit too soon. I was bringing him upstairs to my room on his harness to let him get more used to it and Sapphire was up on top of her cat tree. As we were walking by she decided she actually wanted to come down without treats to see him. Of course he got excited before I could grab a treat and he tried to jump at her again and both got a few wacks at eachother before I could pull him away at which point he was much too focused on her and wanting to go back for more (he did go for a treat afterwards but went straight back to her).

She did follow upstairs afterwards however and went to lay in her room across from him.

It looks so scary when he goes after her but really not seeing any other signs of aggression in him so I'm still thinking that it's just rough play hopefully.
 
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I did speak a bit too soon. I was bringing him upstairs to my room on his harness to let him get more used to it and Sapphire was up on top of her cat tree. As we were walking by she decided she actually wanted to come down without treats to see him. Of course he got excited before I could grab a treat and he tried to jump at her again and both got a few wacks at eachother before I could pull him away at which point he was much too focused on her and wanting to go back for more (he did go for a treat afterwards but went straight back to her).

She did follow upstairs afterwards however and went to lay in her room across from him.

It looks so scary when he goes after her but really not seeing any other signs of aggression in him so I'm still thinking that it's just rough play hopefully.
I want to add, later in the afternoon, I put Fluffy on his harness again before bringing him back upstairs to nap and let Sapphire out of her room.
She went half way down the stairs before seeing him and turning around and running back up to her room.
I did bring Fluffy upstairs and gave them treats together from my hands and she would get right close up for treats and then wall back a few feet.
 

rubysmama

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Just went back to your first post and see this long introduction process started in February. So nearing 6 months!

Am I correct, that right now Fluffy is still spending most of his time in his room? If so, and keeping in mind I have never introduced cats, so I could be totally off base here, but my gut thought is that things won't improve substantially until both cats have almost constant full range of the house, so that they both feel as if it is their home. It just seems like things are moving forward, but extremely slowly. Again, I have no experience, so this could be very bad idea, and of course, only you know your cats, and their personalities and behaviours. And I would not, at this time, leave them alone if there will not be any humans around to supervise.

But, I'm wondering, if next time you'll be home for the whole day, if after "treat time" you just let both cats go off on their own, or just see what they do.

I would also suggest having a large piece of corrugated cardboard handy, that you could put between Fluffy and Sapphire, if Fluffy goes to lunge at her. The cardboard serves 2 purposes. One gets between 2 possibly fighting cats. And two, keeps your hands safe from getting scratched / bit trying to separate 2 possibly fighting cats.

Another thing I noticed in your first post, you said you had Feliway running. Is that still the case? If so, maybe stop it for a bit. As I think I've read in some cases it can stress cats, as opposed to calming them. Another disclaimer, I've never used Feliway, so no experience with it.

And lastly, I'll throw out the idea again of taking both cats out for a drive in the car, and see how they react in the car. And if they seem calm in the car, then "set them both free" once you get back home, and see what happens.

Anyway, just wanted to post some thoughts that have come to my mind.

Again, please remember I've no experience introducing cats, but I have followed lots of threads here, so my ideas/thoughts come from all I've read / learned from other cat parents' experiences.
 
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Just went back to your first post and see this long introduction process started in February. So nearing 6 months!

Am I correct, that right now Fluffy is still spending most of his time in his room? If so, and keeping in mind I have never introduced cats, so I could be totally off base here, but my gut thought is that things won't improve substantially until both cats have almost constant full range of the house, so that they both feel as if it is their home. It just seems like things are moving forward, but extremely slowly. Again, I have no experience, so this could be very bad idea, and of course, only you know your cats, and their personalities and behaviours. And I would not, at this time, leave them alone if there will not be any humans around to supervise.

But, I'm wondering, if next time you'll be home for the whole day, if after "treat time" you just let both cats go off on their own, or just see what they do.

I would also suggest having a large piece of corrugated cardboard handy, that you could put between Fluffy and Sapphire, if Fluffy goes to lunge at her. The cardboard serves 2 purposes. One gets between 2 possibly fighting cats. And two, keeps your hands safe from getting scratched / bit trying to separate 2 possibly fighting cats.

Another thing I noticed in your first post, you said you had Feliway running. Is that still the case? If so, maybe stop it for a bit. As I think I've read in some cases it can stress cats, as opposed to calming them. Another disclaimer, I've never used Feliway, so no experience with it.

And lastly, I'll throw out the idea again of taking both cats out for a drive in the car, and see how they react in the car. And if they seem calm in the car, then "set them both free" once you get back home, and see what happens.

Anyway, just wanted to post some thoughts that have come to my mind.

Again, please remember I've no experience introducing cats, but I have followed lots of threads here, so my ideas/thoughts come from all I've read / learned from other cat parents' experiences.
Yes Fluffy spends most of the time in either his room or my bedroom. He's out for around 4 hours a day or so or as much as I can let him out (during the week my mom lets him out in the afternoon when I'm at work). Monday to Friday I'm working/driving to and from work for about 11 hours so my time is super limited.

I have definitely considered just letting them be after treat time, but I think it's more so my anxiety that is holding me back. Even when he lunges at her while on his harness it kills me inside and I have to try really hard to keep it from getting too me too much and it's something I think I need to work on.

I think I've mentioned it but 90% of the time now both cats are very good. Zero issues at the gates anymore, not even hissing from Sapphire. It's that 10% of the time when Fluffy does go after her that worries me as it seems to set things back a little.

I do like your suggestions though I feel like you are probably right about things improving once they can both be out as Fluffy probably feels cooped up. I just need to try an eliminate that fear and anxiety from myself.

I am still using the diffusers but I don't know if they are working or not, plus still giving them CBD oil and calming treats daily. I do think they're having some effect as Fluffy is much calmer than even a few weeks ago but I honestly couldn't say.

Thank you again for your support and advice :)
 

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I did speak a bit too soon. I was bringing him upstairs to my room on his harness to let him get more used to it and Sapphire was up on top of her cat tree. As we were walking by she decided she actually wanted to come down without treats to see him. Of course he got excited before I could grab a treat and he tried to jump at her again and both got a few wacks at eachother before I could pull him away at which point he was much too focused on her and wanting to go back for more (he did go for a treat afterwards but went straight back to her).

She did follow upstairs afterwards however and went to lay in her room across from him.

It looks so scary when he goes after her but really not seeing any other signs of aggression in him so I'm still thinking that it's just rough play hopefully.
I am so sorry for the delayed response.

"I did speak a bit too soon." - Ok

" I was bringing him upstairs to my room on his harness to let him get more used to it and Sapphire was up on top of her cat tree. As we were walking by she decided she actually wanted to come down without treats to see him." - Awwww, awesome

" Of course he got excited before I could grab a treat and he tried to jump at her again" - Yep

" and both got a few wacks at eachother before I could pull him away at which point he was much too focused on her and wanting to go back for more (he did go for a treat afterwards but went straight back to her)." - Ok, how was his body language?

"She did follow upstairs afterwards however and went to lay in her room across from him." - how was her body language? Normal? If so that is pretty good.

"It looks so scary when he goes after her" - Yes, it does.

" but really not seeing any other signs of aggression in him so I'm still thinking that it's just rough play hopefully." - And he doesn't seem like a mean cat so I would guess it is just play as well. AND if it wasn't she would be acting more fearful which she doesn't seem to be.

"I want to add, later in the afternoon, I put Fluffy on his harness again before bringing him back upstairs to nap and let Sapphire out of her room." - Ok

"She went half way down the stairs before seeing him and turning around and running back up to her room." - :( How did he react? The fact he didn;t chase her will give her confidence that he "isn't so bad".

"I did bring Fluffy upstairs and gave them treats together from my hands and she would get right close up for treats and then wall back a few feet. " - Ok, that is great!!! It is more the fear of the unknown. When she sees him, is near him she is less fearful then when she is kinda "surprised" by him.

"Yes Fluffy spends most of the time in either his room or my bedroom." - Is it possible to get him into her room as well? And her into his room?

" He's out for around 4 hours a day or so or as much as I can let him out (during the week my mom lets him out in the afternoon when I'm at work). Monday to Friday I'm working/driving to and from work for about 11 hours so my time is super limited." - Understandable.

"I have definitely considered just letting them be after treat time," - I do think it is a bit early for this BUT I think we are really close for this.

" but I think it's more so my anxiety that is holding me back." - Yes, I agree. I think the cats are more ready. BUT hte human needs to be calm and confident as the cats take on our emotions. If the humans are anxious they will be more on guard and therefore more stressed and can get into it.

" Even when he lunges at her while on his harness it kills me inside" - :( PLEASE do not feel badly. He is being a cat and wanting to play. It is normal. I am not a harness user so I just wonder if maybe some of it is the harness. The restraint that might cause some anxiety because cats like to move as they want and not be impeded. Independence. BUT since I am not an expert with harnesses I could be totally wrong.

"and I have to try really hard to keep it from getting too me too much and it's something I think I need to work on." - It is ok, normal. Most people struggle with that. We all need to work on that at some point. You are going to be fine. When we get trust the cats tend to get trust. And cats pick up on our emotions, fears etc. Now if there is a good reason to fear we do something about it but when the fear is maybe a bit overblown then we have to think it through and see if the fear is unwarranted. I will not do anything if I think there is a real risk to the safety of the cats.

"I think I've mentioned it but 90% of the time now both cats are very good. Zero issues at the gates anymore, not even hissing from Sapphire." - Exactly. We are well on the way, we are just not totally there yet.

"It's that 10% of the time when Fluffy does go after her that worries me as it seems to set things back a little." - Yes. But it is why he "lunges" and what tells us a lot about the intent is how she acts. Now, she did run back up the stairs so she is not 100% there yet BUT then she eats with him so she is close.

"I do like your suggestions though I feel like you are probably right about things improving once they can both be out as Fluffy probably feels cooped up." - Yes and he is excited about playing with his sister. But we need to be sure it will not set us back. That is the art of the process.

"I just need to try an eliminate that fear and anxiety from myself." - Yes ;) And you will. :)

"I am still using the diffusers but I don't know if they are working or not," - Ok

"plus still giving them CBD oil and calming treats daily. I do think they're having some effect as Fluffy is much calmer than even a few weeks ago but I honestly couldn't say." - It is difficult to know. :/

"Thank you again for your support and advice :) " - You are welcome.

Now to Rubysmama's post-

Just went back to your first post and see this long introduction process started in February. So nearing 6 months!

"Am I correct, that right now Fluffy is still spending most of his time in his room? If so, and keeping in mind I have never introduced cats, so I could be totally off base here, but my gut thought is that things won't improve substantially until both cats have almost constant full range of the house, so that they both feel as if it is their home." - I would add it is an ownership/confidence thing. SO we want each cat to feel like they own each place in the house and feel that confidence. So we do that using play and then feed after. We use scent soakers (cat trees, scratching posts bedding, etc) so that they can "own" things in the territory and be like "yep, this is mine".

" It just seems like things are moving forward, but extremely slowly." - This last bit does move slowly sadly BUT I do think they are close. We do need to get to the point where we trust them and keep our emotions calm and confident. once we get that breakthrough we will be good to go.

"Again, I have no experience, so this could be very bad idea, and of course, only you know your cats, and their personalities and behaviours. And I would not, at this time, leave them alone if there will not be any humans around to supervise." - Totally agree

"But, I'm wondering, if next time you'll be home for the whole day, if after "treat time" you just let both cats go off on their own, or just see what they do." - I think we are really close to this. I do think the humans need to get a bit more confident and trusting to where the cats are. Though I do think the cats need just a touch more. What we want to avoid is a cat acting like prey and running from the other (as it will lead to a chase then potentially escalate). So I would like a bit more confidence that Sapphire will hold her own rather than run. We are really close though.

"I would also suggest having a large piece of corrugated cardboard handy, that you could put between Fluffy and Sapphire, if Fluffy goes to lunge at her. The cardboard serves 2 purposes. One gets between 2 possibly fighting cats. And two, keeps your hands safe from getting scratched / bit trying to separate 2 possibly fighting cats." - Yes. The one caveat is the humans need to view this calmly and confidently and not be anxious having the cardboard around. Sometimes I see the fat ther eis cardboard makes the humans anticipate trouble and be more anxious which makes the cat more anxious and more likely bad things happening. So having it there (like treats or a toy) and viewing it as a positive thing and being calm and confident about it is really important.

"Another thing I noticed in your first post, you said you had Feliway running. Is that still the case? If so, maybe stop it for a bit. As I think I've read in some cases it can stress cats, as opposed to calming them. Another disclaimer, I've never used Feliway, so no experience with it." - I never use feliway. :/

"And lastly, I'll throw out the idea again of taking both cats out for a drive in the car, and see how they react in the car. And if they seem calm in the car, then "set them both free" once you get back home, and see what happens." - If you do this just make sure no one gets out, etc.

Anyway, just wanted to post some thoughts that have come to my mind.

Again, please remember I've no experience introducing cats, but I have followed lots of threads here, so my ideas/thoughts come from all I've read / learned from other cat parents' experiences.
 
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