Help/Advice for introductions

Furmama22

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Good morning!
Everything is still just moving along here and last night's face to face was still the same. Sapphire ended up staying up on her cat tree again for the most part just watching Fluffy as they do. At one point while Fluffy was off in the kitchen chasing a treat, I dropped a treat by accident and Sapphire jumped down to get it and then went and sat on the stairs to watch from there. A little while later while Fluffy was busy, she even came back down as there were a few treats in a feeder toy that she wanted to get. She remained cautious, peaking around the edge of the bannister to make sure that the "big bad kitty who chases her" wasn't coming, but he just remained laying down in the dining room and didn't come over until she was back on the stairs. She then decided to go upstairs to eat the rest of her wet food.

Here is a video I took early on, but nothing too interesting happens.

Just want to say they are so darn cute!! That little trilling noise Fluffy makes in the video - so charming!!
 

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It definitely does look like she's just cautious right now and not scared! It's great that she is comfortable enough to watch him from a bit of a distance and isn't hiding somewhere. Slowly getting comfortable closer to him is some good progress for sure!
 
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Graham18

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Just want to say they are so darn cute!! That little trilling noise Fluffy makes in the video - so charming!!
He is the most vocal cat I've ever known. Some of his sounds are so cute. He loves to make little chirping sounds at his sister! She on the other hand doesn't make a sound unless there's birds outside the window hahaha

It definitely does look like she's just cautious right now and not scared! It's great that she is comfortable enough to watch him from a bit of a distance and isn't hiding somewhere. Slowly getting comfortable closer to him is some good progress for sure!
This is definitely the hardest part and where we kind of ended off the last time. Sapphire is comfortable enough to watch him and I could probably even get them right together for treats, but her cautiousness is the last hurdle for her. And of course getting Fluffy to lose interest in her so he doesn't try and chase her or pounce on her where they start rolling around shrieking on the floor.
 
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Nothing major to update. Fluffy ate his food on the ground while Sapphire sat up on the cat tree and nibbled at her food for a bit. I just sat on the floor with Fluffy and him and Sapphire just watched eachother for about five/ten minutes. I got Sapphire to come down from her cat tree for a treat and then she went and sat on the stairs and they watched eachother for a few more minutes. Fluffy was really good and just laid down most of the time and would be distracted with a treat if I noticed him getting excited.

Sapphire went upstairs while Fluffy was in the kitchen and then he went to look out the back window. A few minutes later she came back down and started towards the kitchen not realizing he was just around the corner. I distracted her back to the living room as I didn't want to risk an altercation. Of course Fluffy came back to the dining room and Sapphire hissed and growled while eating her treat. Fluffy was looking ready to chase and started towards her but I blocked his path and told him no then threw a treat into his room.

Once I put the baby gates up I gave them treats together at the gate and Sapphire was very very growly which I found a bit odd as she usually doesn't growl at him behind gates.

Once Fluffy was gone to bed Sapphire was really hyper and wanted to play so that's just what we did before she got annoyed and told me to go away with some little high pitched meows.
 

calicosrspecial

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Nothing major to update. Fluffy ate his food on the ground while Sapphire sat up on the cat tree and nibbled at her food for a bit. I just sat on the floor with Fluffy and him and Sapphire just watched eachother for about five/ten minutes. I got Sapphire to come down from her cat tree for a treat and then she went and sat on the stairs and they watched eachother for a few more minutes. Fluffy was really good and just laid down most of the time and would be distracted with a treat if I noticed him getting excited.

Sapphire went upstairs while Fluffy was in the kitchen and then he went to look out the back window. A few minutes later she came back down and started towards the kitchen not realizing he was just around the corner. I distracted her back to the living room as I didn't want to risk an altercation. Of course Fluffy came back to the dining room and Sapphire hissed and growled while eating her treat. Fluffy was looking ready to chase and started towards her but I blocked his path and told him no then threw a treat into his room.

Once I put the baby gates up I gave them treats together at the gate and Sapphire was very very growly which I found a bit odd as she usually doesn't growl at him behind gates.

Once Fluffy was gone to bed Sapphire was really hyper and wanted to play so that's just what we did before she got annoyed and told me to go away with some little high pitched meows.
"Nothing major to update. Fluffy ate his food on the ground while Sapphire sat up on the cat tree and nibbled at her food for a bit." - Great

" I just sat on the floor with Fluffy and him and Sapphire just watched eachother for about five/ten minutes. I got Sapphire to come down from her cat tree for a treat and then she went and sat on the stairs and they watched eachother for a few more minutes. Fluffy was really good and just laid down most of the time and would be distracted with a treat if I noticed him getting excited." - Perfect

"Sapphire went upstairs while Fluffy was in the kitchen and then he went to look out the back window. A few minutes later she came back down and started towards the kitchen not realizing he was just around the corner. I distracted her back to the living room as I didn't want to risk an altercation. Of course Fluffy came back to the dining room and Sapphire hissed and growled while eating her treat. " - Great she came down.

"Fluffy was looking ready to chase and started towards her but I blocked his path and told him no then threw a treat into his room." - Good job, how did she react when you threw the treat?

"Once I put the baby gates up I gave them treats together at the gate and Sapphire was very very growly which I found a bit odd as she usually doesn't growl at him behind gates." - ok, but did she eat the treat? Run away?

"Once Fluffy was gone to bed Sapphire was really hyper and wanted to play so that's just what we did " - Great

"before she got annoyed and told me to go away with some little high pitched meows. " - She did? How so? Any idea why?

Overall, I would say positive. Nothing negative happened which builds trust and confidence.
 
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"Nothing major to update. Fluffy ate his food on the ground while Sapphire sat up on the cat tree and nibbled at her food for a bit." - Great

" I just sat on the floor with Fluffy and him and Sapphire just watched eachother for about five/ten minutes. I got Sapphire to come down from her cat tree for a treat and then she went and sat on the stairs and they watched eachother for a few more minutes. Fluffy was really good and just laid down most of the time and would be distracted with a treat if I noticed him getting excited." - Perfect

"Sapphire went upstairs while Fluffy was in the kitchen and then he went to look out the back window. A few minutes later she came back down and started towards the kitchen not realizing he was just around the corner. I distracted her back to the living room as I didn't want to risk an altercation. Of course Fluffy came back to the dining room and Sapphire hissed and growled while eating her treat. " - Great she came down.

"Fluffy was looking ready to chase and started towards her but I blocked his path and told him no then threw a treat into his room." - Good job, how did she react when you threw the treat?

"Once I put the baby gates up I gave them treats together at the gate and Sapphire was very very growly which I found a bit odd as she usually doesn't growl at him behind gates." - ok, but did she eat the treat? Run away?

"Once Fluffy was gone to bed Sapphire was really hyper and wanted to play so that's just what we did " - Great

"before she got annoyed and told me to go away with some little high pitched meows. " - She did? How so? Any idea why?

Overall, I would say positive. Nothing negative happened which builds trust and confidence.
If I remember correctly, she was still in the process of hissing and growling when I redirected fluffy into his room, but I wasn't watching her so I'm unsure what she was doing and just have to go by sound. When I gave them treats and she was growling at the baby gates, she just turned a kind of trotted away once she ate the treat. Not a walk, but not a run either. She may have had to use the litter box as she has one upstairs and also one downstairs by the backdoor. It's also possible she was just being a confusing cat again haha.

And finally, I think she may have had a bit of pent of energy and was maybe just a bit irritated. She was really hyper after Fluffy went to bed and then she just decided to lay down in the kitchen and her tail started to really go crazy and that's when she didn't want to be petted. She doesn't do it often, and usually I can tell by her tail and the look on her face and luckily she'll give me a verbal warning first before she'll bite or swat at me.
 
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Hello! I'd like to start by saying I hope that everyone had a wonderful Christmas :)

I really have nothing new to update as face to face time between Fluffy and Sapphire has been extremely limited these last few days. Friday evening, I came home from dinner just briefly to give them dinner but Sapphire stayed upstairs. Fluffy came upstairs with me as I sat in the hall and Sapphire seemed perfectly content in her room. She even came pretty close to him for treats. When did growl at him a few times which I've definitively determined is what really gets him worked up. As soon as she would growl, he would get into a chase/lunge position and I would have to distract him.

On Christmas morning I was surprised that they were able to open their presents together (they got new beds :) haha). Sapphire kept her distance and hissed a bit before eventually going upstairs to nap but nothing negative happened with Fluffy.

No face to face time Saturday night as Fluffy stayed with my parents all day while I was doing some running around and he went straight to bed when I brought him home since he was really tired.

Nothing new other than that. Sapphire has been extremely affectionate lately as well always wanting to jump on my lap.

We just have to get through this obstacle of her growling causing him to get into lunging mode.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello! I'd like to start by saying I hope that everyone had a wonderful Christmas :)

I really have nothing new to update as face to face time between Fluffy and Sapphire has been extremely limited these last few days. Friday evening, I came home from dinner just briefly to give them dinner but Sapphire stayed upstairs. Fluffy came upstairs with me as I sat in the hall and Sapphire seemed perfectly content in her room. She even came pretty close to him for treats. When did growl at him a few times which I've definitively determined is what really gets him worked up. As soon as she would growl, he would get into a chase/lunge position and I would have to distract him.

On Christmas morning I was surprised that they were able to open their presents together (they got new beds :) haha). Sapphire kept her distance and hissed a bit before eventually going upstairs to nap but nothing negative happened with Fluffy.

No face to face time Saturday night as Fluffy stayed with my parents all day while I was doing some running around and he went straight to bed when I brought him home since he was really tired.

Nothing new other than that. Sapphire has been extremely affectionate lately as well always wanting to jump on my lap.

We just have to get through this obstacle of her growling causing him to get into lunging mode.
So odd, this didn't show up in my alerts. :/

"Hello! I'd like to start by saying I hope that everyone had a wonderful Christmas :) " - I hope you all did as well!!

"I really have nothing new to update as face to face time between Fluffy and Sapphire has been extremely limited these last few days. Friday evening, I came home from dinner just briefly to give them dinner but Sapphire stayed upstairs." - Ok, understandable

" Fluffy came upstairs with me as I sat in the hall and Sapphire seemed perfectly content in her room. She even came pretty close to him for treats." - Great

"When did growl at him a few times which I've definitively determined is what really gets him worked up. As soon as she would growl, he would get into a chase/lunge position and I would have to distract him." - Play or aggressive worked up?

"On Christmas morning I was surprised that they were able to open their presents together (they got new beds :) haha). Sapphire kept her distance and hissed a bit before eventually going upstairs to nap but nothing negative happened with Fluffy." - GREAT!!!!

"No face to face time Saturday night as Fluffy stayed with my parents all day while I was doing some running around and he went straight to bed when I brought him home since he was really tired." - That is fine

"Nothing new other than that. Sapphire has been extremely affectionate lately as well always wanting to jump on my lap." - Awwwwww, great sign

"We just have to get through this obstacle of her growling causing him to get into lunging mode. " - Agreed. :/
 
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Graham18

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So odd, this didn't show up in my alerts. :/

"Hello! I'd like to start by saying I hope that everyone had a wonderful Christmas :) " - I hope you all did as well!!

"I really have nothing new to update as face to face time between Fluffy and Sapphire has been extremely limited these last few days. Friday evening, I came home from dinner just briefly to give them dinner but Sapphire stayed upstairs." - Ok, understandable

" Fluffy came upstairs with me as I sat in the hall and Sapphire seemed perfectly content in her room. She even came pretty close to him for treats." - Great

"When did growl at him a few times which I've definitively determined is what really gets him worked up. As soon as she would growl, he would get into a chase/lunge position and I would have to distract him." - Play or aggressive worked up?

"On Christmas morning I was surprised that they were able to open their presents together (they got new beds :) haha). Sapphire kept her distance and hissed a bit before eventually going upstairs to nap but nothing negative happened with Fluffy." - GREAT!!!!

"No face to face time Saturday night as Fluffy stayed with my parents all day while I was doing some running around and he went straight to bed when I brought him home since he was really tired." - That is fine

"Nothing new other than that. Sapphire has been extremely affectionate lately as well always wanting to jump on my lap." - Awwwwww, great sign

"We just have to get through this obstacle of her growling causing him to get into lunging mode. " - Agreed. :/
Thank you :)

I struggle to really determine whether it is play or aggression. I believe it is most likely play as he's easily distractable and other than wide eyes, nothing else really points to aggression and we know how rough of a player he is. It is the fact that growling seems to be the main trigger that makes it difficult to tell.
 
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So odd, this didn't show up in my alerts. :/

"Hello! I'd like to start by saying I hope that everyone had a wonderful Christmas :) " - I hope you all did as well!!

"I really have nothing new to update as face to face time between Fluffy and Sapphire has been extremely limited these last few days. Friday evening, I came home from dinner just briefly to give them dinner but Sapphire stayed upstairs." - Ok, understandable

" Fluffy came upstairs with me as I sat in the hall and Sapphire seemed perfectly content in her room. She even came pretty close to him for treats." - Great

"When did growl at him a few times which I've definitively determined is what really gets him worked up. As soon as she would growl, he would get into a chase/lunge position and I would have to distract him." - Play or aggressive worked up?

"On Christmas morning I was surprised that they were able to open their presents together (they got new beds :) haha). Sapphire kept her distance and hissed a bit before eventually going upstairs to nap but nothing negative happened with Fluffy." - GREAT!!!!

"No face to face time Saturday night as Fluffy stayed with my parents all day while I was doing some running around and he went straight to bed when I brought him home since he was really tired." - That is fine

"Nothing new other than that. Sapphire has been extremely affectionate lately as well always wanting to jump on my lap." - Awwwwww, great sign

"We just have to get through this obstacle of her growling causing him to get into lunging mode. " - Agreed. :/
Thank you :)

I struggle to really determine whether it is play or aggression. I believe it is most likely play as he's easily distractable and other than wide eyes, nothing else really points to aggression and we know how rough of a player he is. It is the fact that growling seems to be the main trigger that makes it difficult to tell.

Not sure why this posted twice
 

calicosrspecial

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Thank you :)

I struggle to really determine whether it is play or aggression. I believe it is most likely play as he's easily distractable and other than wide eyes, nothing else really points to aggression and we know how rough of a player he is. It is the fact that growling seems to be the main trigger that makes it difficult to tell.

Not sure why this posted twice
Exactly :/ It sure seems like play given he is easily distracted and there are no other signs of aggression.

Well, maybe she will stop growling (probably not likely) or he will understand it is not an invitation or threat...........................

Are you able to get her to stop (by distracting) or words or are you too occupied by keeping him from pouncing? Try "No Sapphire" or something. Calm and confidently.
 
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Exactly :/ It sure seems like play given he is easily distracted and there are no other signs of aggression.

Well, maybe she will stop growling (probably not likely) or he will understand it is not an invitation or threat...........................

Are you able to get her to stop (by distracting) or words or are you too occupied by keeping him from pouncing? Try "No Sapphire" or something. Calm and confidently.
I will see what I can do :) so far I've only been able to get her to stop with treats.
The growling so far hasn't happened too much as I've been trying to keep them as apart as possible to make sure there aren't any incidents.

Hopefully she'll get a bit more comfortable with repetition, but I'm thinking in the shorter term I'll have better luck slowly teaching Fluffy that it's not an invitation to play.
 

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I will see what I can do :) so far I've only been able to get her to stop with treats.
The growling so far hasn't happened too much as I've been trying to keep them as apart as possible to make sure there aren't any incidents.

Hopefully she'll get a bit more comfortable with repetition, but I'm thinking in the shorter term I'll have better luck slowly teaching Fluffy that it's not an invitation to play.
"I will see what I can do :) so far I've only been able to get her to stop with treats." - Ok

"The growling so far hasn't happened too much as I've been trying to keep them as apart as possible to make sure there aren't any incidents." - Ok, but we will need to confront it at some point. :/

"Hopefully she'll get a bit more comfortable with repetition, but I'm thinking in the shorter term I'll have better luck slowly teaching Fluffy that it's not an invitation to play." - Ok, he is smart. Fingers crossed
 
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"I will see what I can do :) so far I've only been able to get her to stop with treats." - Ok

"The growling so far hasn't happened too much as I've been trying to keep them as apart as possible to make sure there aren't any incidents." - Ok, but we will need to confront it at some point. :/

"Hopefully she'll get a bit more comfortable with repetition, but I'm thinking in the shorter term I'll have better luck slowly teaching Fluffy that it's not an invitation to play." - Ok, he is smart. Fingers crossed
Thank you!
I will try my best. It's becoming quite stressful not really knowing exactly how I should proceed going forward.
 

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Thank you!
I will try my best. It's becoming quite stressful not really knowing exactly how I should proceed going forward.
"I will try my best." - You will do fine.

" It's becoming quite stressful not really knowing exactly how I should proceed going forward." - I know but it is really important you kind of get more aloof. Accept it and not make it into a big deal. It is hard but if she sees you thinking it is not a big deal then she just may as well. You are doing everything you can. It is up to her. To get over this fear, lack of trust. She needs to see he is not a threat (which you are doing) but then she needs to believe it. She is getting better BUT she is not there yet. But she will get there if we keep it positive, build that trust. He is so good so it is frustrating she doesn't get over it but that is her and we need to deal with it. You are doing everything you can. So let's that that more aloof attitude and see if she steps up. Doesn't mean we let them pounce etc but means we hang out more, not as much on top of them while still trying to "manage" Fluffy.

Does that kind of make sense?
 

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Thank you!
I will try my best. It's becoming quite stressful not really knowing exactly how I should proceed going forward.
I really want to talk about where the stress is coming from - meaning is it the time, is it the fear they get into a chase at that point, it is a fear they will never be together and/or other things?

You have enough stress in your business. The cats should (and will be) a source of de-stressing, happiness, etc). So as I think about this more I think my number 1 goal is to remove the stress emanating from the cats. Or at least really reduce it.

So if you can let me know what is causing the stress, just be honest.

Maybe we just stop the face to face and act like they are intro'd. If she wants to come down she will, if she doesn't she wont then get bored and start doing the work. A "Tough Love" approach.

She is a happy cat overall, she seems like she loves everything in her life but just doesn't trust Fluffy totally. So I am trying to figure out how to get over that last hurdle. I THOUGHT that was going to happen when they got that chase and pounce in the bathroom. Usually the cat realizes the other cat doesn't want to kill them and it gets to a new level of trust. It didn't work as planned with Sapphire. We have to figure out a way for her to get into an uncomfortable (but safe) encounter that builds trust.

So let's figure out how to reduce your stress and then figure out how to get Sapphire to finally step up.
 
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I really want to talk about where the stress is coming from - meaning is it the time, is it the fear they get into a chase at that point, it is a fear they will never be together and/or other things?

You have enough stress in your business. The cats should (and will be) a source of de-stressing, happiness, etc). So as I think about this more I think my number 1 goal is to remove the stress emanating from the cats. Or at least really reduce it.

So if you can let me know what is causing the stress, just be honest.

Maybe we just stop the face to face and act like they are intro'd. If she wants to come down she will, if she doesn't she wont then get bored and start doing the work. A "Tough Love" approach.

She is a happy cat overall, she seems like she loves everything in her life but just doesn't trust Fluffy totally. So I am trying to figure out how to get over that last hurdle. I THOUGHT that was going to happen when they got that chase and pounce in the bathroom. Usually the cat realizes the other cat doesn't want to kill them and it gets to a new level of trust. It didn't work as planned with Sapphire. We have to figure out a way for her to get into an uncomfortable (but safe) encounter that builds trust.

So let's figure out how to reduce your stress and then figure out how to get Sapphire to finally step up.
Yes being aloof kind of makes sense to me, and I only say kind of because I'm most likely completely overthinking what it actually means. I feel like I was pretty aloof last night, but I will get to that shortly as I want to answer your others questions first :)

I believe that the stress is mostly just a spiral effect. With everything that is going on, the stress compounds onto me and tends to be worse the more tired I am, which in turn makes it harder to get a good sleep which, again in turn makes me feel more stressed. What adds to the stress varies day by day which makes me believe it's a bit more anxiety than actual stress as one stray thought slipping into my mind can create a whole web of what if scenarios. One day, for example, I'll stress myself out by fearing they will never be able to co-exist, while the next day, I'll stress myself out Ju from Fluffy meowing to come out of his room and I'll think I'm not spending enough time with him. I know that I just want both of them to be happy and feel loved all the time. From that point, it is hard to pinpoint an exact trigger, as it can vary day by day, even hour by hour. Sometimes it's something as simple as being exhausted and wanting to go to bed, but instead, I need to make sure I've given them lots of love and playtime and I end up not going to relax until late at night. I am definitely a perfectionist, so when I see a problem that I absolutely cannot find a solution for it tends to eat at me from the inside. A prime example would be another chase/dustup happening, and having to start from scratch again.

On a positive note, I've been trying to treat the interactions more as just the cats being out together while supervised and even a slight improvement tends to alleviate a lot of stress for the time which brings me to last night.

I was upstairs in my room playing with Fluffy as usual but he really just wasn't having it and wanted to go downstairs earlier than usual. Sapphire was napping in her bed so I just brought Fluffy down and figured I'd just give him more attention down there and let him do his thing and just make sure he didn't sneak upstairs. He also got a new puzzle feeder so I put some treats in there to keep him occupied. After a few minutes I saw Sapphire sitting on the stairs watching him with his puzzle feeder. I gave her some treats and she came down for a treat as well. She got scared at a time and ran back up when he was walking towards her, but she was back on the stairs watching him again after a minute or two. After a few more minutes she came downstairs on her own and went behind her cat tree and continued to watch him. I gave them both a special treat together (whiskas cat milk), before putting Fluffy to bed. In total he was out for around 40 minutes he was very good. There were only a couple times I had to break his focus on her but overall very positive and I could see Sapphire getting a bit more curious.

I also wanted to clarify that generally now when I'm with them, I feel as I'm acting a bit more fluid and natural. I'll stay near them both and give them love, affection, treats, etc, and make sure I'm ready to prevent a chase if necessary, but overall between giving them attention, I'll usually just be sitting on the ground, on my phone checking emails, etc, and just keeping aware of what each is doing to intervene or redirect if needed. I'm not exactly sure if that is aloof, but that is where I'm currently at. Any videos I've posted, probably shouldn't be used as reference, as I tend to be a little more high strung when I'm recording a video since I'm distracted.

Please let me know if I missed anything :)
 

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Yes being aloof kind of makes sense to me, and I only say kind of because I'm most likely completely overthinking what it actually means. I feel like I was pretty aloof last night, but I will get to that shortly as I want to answer your others questions first :)

I believe that the stress is mostly just a spiral effect. With everything that is going on, the stress compounds onto me and tends to be worse the more tired I am, which in turn makes it harder to get a good sleep which, again in turn makes me feel more stressed. What adds to the stress varies day by day which makes me believe it's a bit more anxiety than actual stress as one stray thought slipping into my mind can create a whole web of what if scenarios. One day, for example, I'll stress myself out by fearing they will never be able to co-exist, while the next day, I'll stress myself out Ju from Fluffy meowing to come out of his room and I'll think I'm not spending enough time with him. I know that I just want both of them to be happy and feel loved all the time. From that point, it is hard to pinpoint an exact trigger, as it can vary day by day, even hour by hour. Sometimes it's something as simple as being exhausted and wanting to go to bed, but instead, I need to make sure I've given them lots of love and playtime and I end up not going to relax until late at night. I am definitely a perfectionist, so when I see a problem that I absolutely cannot find a solution for it tends to eat at me from the inside. A prime example would be another chase/dustup happening, and having to start from scratch again.

On a positive note, I've been trying to treat the interactions more as just the cats being out together while supervised and even a slight improvement tends to alleviate a lot of stress for the time which brings me to last night.

I was upstairs in my room playing with Fluffy as usual but he really just wasn't having it and wanted to go downstairs earlier than usual. Sapphire was napping in her bed so I just brought Fluffy down and figured I'd just give him more attention down there and let him do his thing and just make sure he didn't sneak upstairs. He also got a new puzzle feeder so I put some treats in there to keep him occupied. After a few minutes I saw Sapphire sitting on the stairs watching him with his puzzle feeder. I gave her some treats and she came down for a treat as well. She got scared at a time and ran back up when he was walking towards her, but she was back on the stairs watching him again after a minute or two. After a few more minutes she came downstairs on her own and went behind her cat tree and continued to watch him. I gave them both a special treat together (whiskas cat milk), before putting Fluffy to bed. In total he was out for around 40 minutes he was very good. There were only a couple times I had to break his focus on her but overall very positive and I could see Sapphire getting a bit more curious.

I also wanted to clarify that generally now when I'm with them, I feel as I'm acting a bit more fluid and natural. I'll stay near them both and give them love, affection, treats, etc, and make sure I'm ready to prevent a chase if necessary, but overall between giving them attention, I'll usually just be sitting on the ground, on my phone checking emails, etc, and just keeping aware of what each is doing to intervene or redirect if needed. I'm not exactly sure if that is aloof, but that is where I'm currently at. Any videos I've posted, probably shouldn't be used as reference, as I tend to be a little more high strung when I'm recording a video since I'm distracted.

Please let me know if I missed anything :)
"Yes being aloof kind of makes sense to me, and I only say kind of because I'm most likely completely overthinking what it actually means. I feel like I was pretty aloof last night, but I will get to that shortly as I want to answer your others questions first :) " - Ok. Let's see.

"I believe that the stress is mostly just a spiral effect. With everything that is going on, the stress compounds onto me and tends to be worse the more tired I am, which in turn makes it harder to get a good sleep which, again in turn makes me feel more stressed." - Understandable.

" What adds to the stress varies day by day which makes me believe it's a bit more anxiety than actual stress as one stray thought slipping into my mind can create a whole web of what if scenarios." - Ok. The times we are in certainly have exacerbated this in many, many people. And often the more driven and successful the more it manifests itself.

" One day, for example, I'll stress myself out by fearing they will never be able to co-exist," - Ok, good to know. So they will definitely co-exist. I am not sure how long it will take but they will. That I know given the history. So hopefully that fear/thought passes without more thought.

" while the next day, I'll stress myself out Ju from Fluffy meowing to come out of his room and I'll think I'm not spending enough time with him." - Ok, understandable. That often does cause stress. And I think you have to accept that you can't be in two places at once, can't do the work of three people, accept you are doing your best. Fluffy will be fine. And sometimes when we give in so much and spoil them the more they can do that.

" I know that I just want both of them to be happy and feel loved all the time." - I think they are and I think they both do. Given how they act. Would you agree or disagree?

" From that point, it is hard to pinpoint an exact trigger, as it can vary day by day, even hour by hour." - Understandable.

" Sometimes it's something as simple as being exhausted and wanting to go to bed, but instead, I need to make sure I've given them lots of love and playtime and I end up not going to relax until late at night." - Ok. But we need to focus on you. They are definitely more independent than you may realize. Sometimes we try to protect, we try to "take care of" too much where they don't build the necessary self sufficiency. Children, cats. It happens. And if it causes us stress then it causes our loved ones stress and no one benefits.

"I am definitely a perfectionist," - Yes. :)

" so when I see a problem that I absolutely cannot find a solution for it tends to eat at me from the inside. " - Exactly. And I think learning what can be controlled, what can be fixed and what has to be accepted and then made the best it can be is a good learning experience.

"A prime example would be another chase/dustup happening, and having to start from scratch again." - Yes, but sometimes that also is a "watershed" moment. It is like someone that is bullied that finally has enough and fights back. Sometimes it takes time but ultimately it usually happens. Sometimes we can only do so much and the person or animal has to do their part. And accepting that we can only do what we can do is a big part of that. Trying to force something without buy in doesn;t typically work and only creates negative energy.

"On a positive note, I've been trying to treat the interactions more as just the cats being out together while supervised and even a slight improvement tends to alleviate a lot of stress for the time which brings me to last night." - GREAT!!! THat is EXACTLY what I am talking about with "aloof".

"I was upstairs in my room playing with Fluffy as usual but he really just wasn't having it and wanted to go downstairs earlier than usual." - ok, that is fine.

" Sapphire was napping in her bed so I just brought Fluffy down and figured I'd just give him more attention down there and let him do his thing and just make sure he didn't sneak upstairs." - Exactly and you kinda do your thing.

" He also got a new puzzle feeder so I put some treats in there to keep him occupied. After a few minutes I saw Sapphire sitting on the stairs watching him with his puzzle feeder. I gave her some treats and she came down for a treat as well. " - THAT is FANTASTIC!!! Exactly what I am talking about.

"She got scared at a time and ran back up when he was walking towards her, but she was back on the stairs watching him again after a minute or two." - Ok, good This is the test, the "uncomfortable" encounter that the fear isn't realized.

" After a few more minutes she came downstairs on her own and went behind her cat tree and continued to watch him." - EXACTLY what we want to see. Where she thinks the reward of being down there is greater than any perceived or real fear.

" I gave them both a special treat together (whiskas cat milk), before putting Fluffy to bed. " - Perfect

"In total he was out for around 40 minutes he was very good. There were only a couple times I had to break his focus on her but overall very positive and I could see Sapphire getting a bit more curious." - AWESOME!!!

"I also wanted to clarify that generally now when I'm with them, I feel as I'm acting a bit more fluid and natural." - GREAT

" I'll stay near them both and give them love, affection, treats, etc, and make sure I'm ready to prevent a chase if necessary, but overall between giving them attention, I'll usually just be sitting on the ground, on my phone checking emails, etc, and just keeping aware of what each is doing to intervene or redirect if needed. " - GREAT

"I'm not exactly sure if that is aloof, but that is where I'm currently at." - Pretty close!!! I love where you are at with that!!!

"Any videos I've posted, probably shouldn't be used as reference, as I tend to be a little more high strung when I'm recording a video since I'm distracted." - Ok

"Please let me know if I missed anything :) " - I am blown away this is fantastic. This is serious progress. It may not yet be where we want to be but it sure is a lot closer!!!

Keep up the great work!!!
 
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Graham18

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"Yes being aloof kind of makes sense to me, and I only say kind of because I'm most likely completely overthinking what it actually means. I feel like I was pretty aloof last night, but I will get to that shortly as I want to answer your others questions first :) " - Ok. Let's see.

"I believe that the stress is mostly just a spiral effect. With everything that is going on, the stress compounds onto me and tends to be worse the more tired I am, which in turn makes it harder to get a good sleep which, again in turn makes me feel more stressed." - Understandable.

" What adds to the stress varies day by day which makes me believe it's a bit more anxiety than actual stress as one stray thought slipping into my mind can create a whole web of what if scenarios." - Ok. The times we are in certainly have exacerbated this in many, many people. And often the more driven and successful the more it manifests itself.

" One day, for example, I'll stress myself out by fearing they will never be able to co-exist," - Ok, good to know. So they will definitely co-exist. I am not sure how long it will take but they will. That I know given the history. So hopefully that fear/thought passes without more thought.

" while the next day, I'll stress myself out Ju from Fluffy meowing to come out of his room and I'll think I'm not spending enough time with him." - Ok, understandable. That often does cause stress. And I think you have to accept that you can't be in two places at once, can't do the work of three people, accept you are doing your best. Fluffy will be fine. And sometimes when we give in so much and spoil them the more they can do that.

" I know that I just want both of them to be happy and feel loved all the time." - I think they are and I think they both do. Given how they act. Would you agree or disagree?

" From that point, it is hard to pinpoint an exact trigger, as it can vary day by day, even hour by hour." - Understandable.

" Sometimes it's something as simple as being exhausted and wanting to go to bed, but instead, I need to make sure I've given them lots of love and playtime and I end up not going to relax until late at night." - Ok. But we need to focus on you. They are definitely more independent than you may realize. Sometimes we try to protect, we try to "take care of" too much where they don't build the necessary self sufficiency. Children, cats. It happens. And if it causes us stress then it causes our loved ones stress and no one benefits.

"I am definitely a perfectionist," - Yes. :)

" so when I see a problem that I absolutely cannot find a solution for it tends to eat at me from the inside. " - Exactly. And I think learning what can be controlled, what can be fixed and what has to be accepted and then made the best it can be is a good learning experience.

"A prime example would be another chase/dustup happening, and having to start from scratch again." - Yes, but sometimes that also is a "watershed" moment. It is like someone that is bullied that finally has enough and fights back. Sometimes it takes time but ultimately it usually happens. Sometimes we can only do so much and the person or animal has to do their part. And accepting that we can only do what we can do is a big part of that. Trying to force something without buy in doesn;t typically work and only creates negative energy.

"On a positive note, I've been trying to treat the interactions more as just the cats being out together while supervised and even a slight improvement tends to alleviate a lot of stress for the time which brings me to last night." - GREAT!!! THat is EXACTLY what I am talking about with "aloof".

"I was upstairs in my room playing with Fluffy as usual but he really just wasn't having it and wanted to go downstairs earlier than usual." - ok, that is fine.

" Sapphire was napping in her bed so I just brought Fluffy down and figured I'd just give him more attention down there and let him do his thing and just make sure he didn't sneak upstairs." - Exactly and you kinda do your thing.

" He also got a new puzzle feeder so I put some treats in there to keep him occupied. After a few minutes I saw Sapphire sitting on the stairs watching him with his puzzle feeder. I gave her some treats and she came down for a treat as well. " - THAT is FANTASTIC!!! Exactly what I am talking about.

"She got scared at a time and ran back up when he was walking towards her, but she was back on the stairs watching him again after a minute or two." - Ok, good This is the test, the "uncomfortable" encounter that the fear isn't realized.

" After a few more minutes she came downstairs on her own and went behind her cat tree and continued to watch him." - EXACTLY what we want to see. Where she thinks the reward of being down there is greater than any perceived or real fear.

" I gave them both a special treat together (whiskas cat milk), before putting Fluffy to bed. " - Perfect

"In total he was out for around 40 minutes he was very good. There were only a couple times I had to break his focus on her but overall very positive and I could see Sapphire getting a bit more curious." - AWESOME!!!

"I also wanted to clarify that generally now when I'm with them, I feel as I'm acting a bit more fluid and natural." - GREAT

" I'll stay near them both and give them love, affection, treats, etc, and make sure I'm ready to prevent a chase if necessary, but overall between giving them attention, I'll usually just be sitting on the ground, on my phone checking emails, etc, and just keeping aware of what each is doing to intervene or redirect if needed. " - GREAT

"I'm not exactly sure if that is aloof, but that is where I'm currently at." - Pretty close!!! I love where you are at with that!!!

"Any videos I've posted, probably shouldn't be used as reference, as I tend to be a little more high strung when I'm recording a video since I'm distracted." - Ok

"Please let me know if I missed anything :) " - I am blown away this is fantastic. This is serious progress. It may not yet be where we want to be but it sure is a lot closer!!!

Keep up the great work!!!
I agree they are both happy. Just me overthinking again.

Things seem to still be going pretty smoothly. Last night sapphire stayed downstairs for the majority of the time that Fluffy was out and watched him from either behind, or on top of her cat tree. Had to redirect Fluffy a few times not wanting him to get any ideas that he can try and pounce on her and all was positive. After they had their cat milk sapphire went upstairs to nap and Fluffy just hung out for a bit longer but he was pretty tired so I put him to bed.

This morning was more interesting. Sapphire didn't go into her room for breakfast and a nap as she normally does and instead came downstairs and curled up in her new scratching pad shaped like a bowl while Fluffy ate and played with his puzzle feeder. Had to redirect a few times but mostly he just laid on the floor and they watched eachother. I was probably a bit more frantic than usual as I was trying to keep an eye on them while also trying to drink my coffee, check emails, eat breakfast, etc since I'm not used to Sapphire being downstairs in the morning. The most interesting part was when I used a treat in my hand to guide Fluffy upstairs to my room, and Sapphire decided to follow us at a distance going up the stairs. She got a bit too close at one point and hissed but I don't think Fluffy noticed she was behind him and he followed me into my room.

And just as an extra here is Fluffy wearing his Christmas PJs on Christmas morning.
IMG_20211225_135654_316.jpg


I tried putting an outfit on Sapphire when she was still less than a year old but she does not like it. Fluffy on the other hand seems calmer when he's wearing something.
 

calicosrspecial

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I agree they are both happy. Just me overthinking again.

Things seem to still be going pretty smoothly. Last night sapphire stayed downstairs for the majority of the time that Fluffy was out and watched him from either behind, or on top of her cat tree. Had to redirect Fluffy a few times not wanting him to get any ideas that he can try and pounce on her and all was positive. After they had their cat milk sapphire went upstairs to nap and Fluffy just hung out for a bit longer but he was pretty tired so I put him to bed.

This morning was more interesting. Sapphire didn't go into her room for breakfast and a nap as she normally does and instead came downstairs and curled up in her new scratching pad shaped like a bowl while Fluffy ate and played with his puzzle feeder. Had to redirect a few times but mostly he just laid on the floor and they watched eachother. I was probably a bit more frantic than usual as I was trying to keep an eye on them while also trying to drink my coffee, check emails, eat breakfast, etc since I'm not used to Sapphire being downstairs in the morning. The most interesting part was when I used a treat in my hand to guide Fluffy upstairs to my room, and Sapphire decided to follow us at a distance going up the stairs. She got a bit too close at one point and hissed but I don't think Fluffy noticed she was behind him and he followed me into my room.

And just as an extra here is Fluffy wearing his Christmas PJs on Christmas morning.
View attachment 405734

I tried putting an outfit on Sapphire when she was still less than a year old but she does not like it. Fluffy on the other hand seems calmer when he's wearing something.
"I agree they are both happy." - THAT is the KEY. Try to go with that.

" Just me overthinking again." - Possibly

"Things seem to still be going pretty smoothly." - Great

" Last night sapphire stayed downstairs for the majority of the time that Fluffy was out and watched him from either behind, or on top of her cat tree." - Wow, THAT is great progress!!!

" Had to redirect Fluffy a few times not wanting him to get any ideas that he can try and pounce on her and all was positive." - Expected and great.

" After they had their cat milk sapphire went upstairs to nap and Fluffy just hung out for a bit longer but he was pretty tired so I put him to bed." - Perfect!!

"This morning was more interesting. Sapphire didn't go into her room for breakfast and a nap as she normally does and instead came downstairs and curled up in her new scratching pad shaped like a bowl while Fluffy ate and played with his puzzle feeder." - WHOA!!!! MORE PROGRESS!!!

" Had to redirect a few times but mostly he just laid on the floor and they watched eachother." - That is fine. She was great.

" I was probably a bit more frantic than usual as I was trying to keep an eye on them while also trying to drink my coffee, check emails, eat breakfast, etc since I'm not used to Sapphire being downstairs in the morning." - Exactly, makes it even more impressive!!

" The most interesting part was when I used a treat in my hand to guide Fluffy upstairs to my room, and Sapphire decided to follow us at a distance going up the stairs." - WHAT?!?!?!?!?! Sapphire following?!?!?!?!!? I am SO PROUD of her!!!

" She got a bit too close at one point and hissed" - She got too close? Now who was at fault for that???? ;)

"but I don't think Fluffy noticed she was behind him and he followed me into my room." - Or didn't care either way AWESOME!!

"And just as an extra here is Fluffy wearing his Christmas PJs on Christmas morning. " - Awwwww, he is SO ADORABLE!!!!

"I tried putting an outfit on Sapphire when she was still less than a year old but she does not like it. Fluffy on the other hand seems calmer when he's wearing something." - Not surprised, she doesn't seem to be a cat like that. :)

Well, this is the best update I may have ever gotten. I am honestly blown away. Keep doing what you are doing, something is working!! GREAT JOB!!! :)
 
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