Freya suddenly became aggressive

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
OMG, Antonio... sounds like a nightmare..
I am not an expert... but, to me, it kind of sounds like a seizure... at least that is the first thing that popped into my mind, as I was reading your first post....
All signs seem to lead that way, though I find it strange a seizure lasts so long.

How is the bite? Are you ok?
Yes artiemom, thanks, my hand is much better now. I had it covered with a bandage for a few days, but now it's alright.

Congratulations of finding kitty love! Giada is gorgeous! how white her fur is! and her eyes!! beautiful..

Freya looks so sweet...
I hope you get some answers soon.... ((hugs))
Freya looks sweet, but I was sacred to death that night, it wasn't her anymore!
Hopefully it is something we can understand and, above all, it won't happen again.
 

artiemom

Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
8,055
Purraise
12,473
Location
near Boston
I think it was the aftereffects of a seizure; which caused her to act that way... at least that is what came into my mind..

I have seen an adult have a seizure and have witnessed how all exhausting, confusing, disorientating that can be.. I cannot image it to be any different with a cat or any any animal.. They do not know what happened.. still have the abnormal stuff going through their brains.. so they recoil and at at their best to protect themselves.. they revert back to primal ways...

just a guess....
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
Hi all,
Last night, twenty days after the first occurrence, Freya had a strange behavior again, at the same time as the other time, around 10:45 pm.
She had been on my lap for hours, purring and licking my hands, sleeping, softly curled on me while I was watching the TV. All was normal. Then she stepped down from me and went to the litter box, I think, I am not sure of this, but she went that direction. Then she came back. Giada, who had been on my legs for a long time as well, had just jumped down and was sitting on the floor, peacefully. Freya saw her and stopped, she started acting weird. She got her hair bristled and her eyes were wide open. It was like she was looking at a big dog or a monster. Then she arched her back and stood on her toes to look taller and bigger, and her hair was even more bristled.
Giada got worried, and would step back a little.
I felt chills down my spine and didn't know what to do. I tried to stay calm and relaxed. I called Freya, but she didn't turn to me. I moved slowly towards her and tried to reach her with my hand, but she looked at me as she didn't recognize me, she wasn't recognizing anyone and anything and was kind of scared.
I decided not to intervene and wait for the events to develop and avoid the triggering of any unwanted reaction.
About five minutes later things went back to normal, I tried to play with Freya to evaluate her reactions, and at first she didn't want to play, she was even a bit scared by her usual and beloved toys.
I also tried to gently pick her and put her on my legs, but she was a bit tense and jumped down.
About 15 minutes later she was back to herself and started purring again. Giada was a little worried for a longer time.

This morning Freya was fine and sweet as always.

I don't know if this last episode fits in the context of the other one. I will call the vet later and see what she thinks.
I will let you know.
 

rubysmama

Forum Helper
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
17,832
Purraise
38,612
Location
Canada
That's not as serious sounding as the first episode, but certainly strange enough that I agree consulting with your vet is a good idea. Will be waiting to hear what she has to say.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
That's not as serious sounding as the first episode, but certainly strange enough that I agree consulting with your vet is a good idea. Will be waiting to hear what she has to say.
I tried to contact the vet that visited her about two weeks ago, but this whole morning (it's 1:32 pm here now) she's been in the surgery room, so I'm waiting for her to call me back. I hope to be able to talk to her within the next two hours.
Thanks for your support rubysmama rubysmama :redheartpump:
 

artiemom

Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
8,055
Purraise
12,473
Location
near Boston
To me, it sounds like a seizure... not a bad one, a minor one.. but still a seizure..

If it happens again... and I know you will be frightened/anxious during that time; but, try to record what is happening..

During these episodes.. I would take or remove Giada from the area, if possible.. You do not want her to get frightened of being around Freya...

I would also leave Freya alone, as long as she was not in jeopardy of hurting herself.. Just watch and talk softly to her... If you can... so hard to do... but you are a Cat Whisperer.. so you can do it...

I think a neuro consult is in the future...sigh

(((Hugs)))
 

FeebysOwner

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
12,764
Purraise
16,886
Location
Central FL (Born in OH)
I know this is going to sound weird, but with the previous occurrence do you know if she had just used the litter box as you think she did this time? Just trying to find reasons - however bizarre they might seem - that would trigger something in her. I does seem like it could be a seizure, but was wondering if using the litter box somehow is triggering some sort of neural/nerve response. OK, be kind and don't respond until after you have stopped rolling around on the floor laughing! :running:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
If it happens again... and I know you will be frightened/anxious during that time; but, try to record what is happening..
Yes, I though of this last night, but it was too late, I was too scared to think clearly.

During these episodes.. I would take or remove Giada from the area, if possible.. You do not want her to get frightened of being around Freya...

I would also leave Freya alone, as long as she was not in jeopardy of hurting herself.. Just watch and talk softly to her... If you can... so hard to do... but you are a Cat Whisperer.. so you can do it...
I kept an eye on both of them, to avoid any damage or hurting, but I just didn't want to believe it was happening again. That's why I didn't do anything. Furthermore, I didn't want to move around much because I was afraid to trigger some very bad reaction. So we were all standing still and silent. Until things settled on their own.

I think a neuro consult is in the future...sigh
Yes, it is...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
I know this is going to sound weird, but with the previous occurrence do you know if she had just used the litter box as you think she did this time? Just trying to find reasons - however bizarre they might seem - that would trigger something in her. I does seem like it could be a seizure, but was wondering if using the litter box somehow is triggering some sort of neural/nerve response. OK, be kind and don't respond until after you have stopped rolling around on the floor laughing! :running:
That's why I mentioned the litter box, because it seems it is common to both episodes. Though I'm not one hundred percent sure she had used the litter box last night, I didn't pay attention. To me she had just gone to the other room for a reason.
It's also clear that she uses that box several times a day, and since the last occurrence she has been to it at least a hundred times and I never witnessed anything like that.

Another thing I thought of is that she had thought something on both occasions. She likes the green salad, she gets crazy if she can't have her dish of salad every night. On both occasions she had eaten a mix of Radicchio and Arugula/Rocket. On other occasions she has different mixes, and the Arugula/Rocket isn't the norm in her dish.
This is the thing that links the two occurrence. But she had eaten it even the two days before that.

So, this is something I will discuss with the neurologist about. And I will google to see if any website reports anything between this plant and strange reactions in cats.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
UPDATE:
I called the vet, she said the two episodes sound very similar and she believes they are related. She believes that a neuro visit is necessary. Unfortunately the neurologist at the clinic is still in isolation for the coronavirus, and he won't be available until he gets two negative swab tests. He's perfectly fine, but unable to see people.

I could ask the vet to refer me to another neurologist if things do not solve within days.
I also thought to have an MRI done before the neuro consult, but I am afraid he would tell me to run a different test after the consult and I have to stress Freya twice.
 

FeebysOwner

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
12,764
Purraise
16,886
Location
Central FL (Born in OH)
Another thing I thought of is that she had thought something on both occasions. She likes the green salad, she gets crazy if she can't have her dish of salad every night. On both occasions she had eaten a mix of Radicchio and Arugula/Rocket. On other occasions she has different mixes, and the Arugula/Rocket isn't the norm in her dish.
This is the thing that links the two occurrence. But she had eaten it even the two days before that.
Is the salad made fresh, or is it from a pre-packaged bag? The latter typically contains a form of preservative - maybe that builds up in her system and causes a problem?

Also, god forbid she has another occurrence, check her litter box to see if her poop is different somehow, larger/harder/looser - what ever would be considered out of her 'norm'. That might play a role somehow and would explain why she can use the litter box at other times without issue.
I could ask the vet to refer me to another neurologist if things do not solve within days. I also thought to have an MRI done before the neuro consult, but I am afraid he would tell me to run a different test after the consult and I have to stress Freya twice.
If the neurologist is doing any work while in isolation, perhaps he would be able to tell you/your vet if there are any tests he would recommend in advance of an appt. with him?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
Is the salad made fresh, or is it from a pre-packaged bag? The latter typically contains a form of preservative - maybe that builds up in her system and causes a problem?
It's a pre-packaged bag, but I am 100% sure nothing has been added to it, just protective atmosphere to preserve it during the shelf life. Over here in Italy, pre-packaged salads are plain, with no dressing of any kind or else added, just the plants, like this in the photo

insalata-in-busta.jpg


So I can easily rule any chemical out. We have the strictest quality checks on food in the world.

Also, god forbid she has another occurrence, check her litter box to see if her poop is different somehow, larger/harder/looser - what ever would be considered out of her 'norm'. That might play a role somehow and would explain why she can use the litter box at other times without issue.
I did this too. Her poop was fine before and after the occurrences. We also checked it for parasites, which weren't and she's negative (IgM and IgG negative) to Toxo.

If the neurologist is doing any work while in isolation, perhaps he would be able to tell you/your vet if there are any tests he would recommend in advance of an appt. with him?
That would be a good idea! I could discuss the case with him over the phone or email or through the vet and see if he agrees on having any tests done beforehand 👍
 

FeebysOwner

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
12,764
Purraise
16,886
Location
Central FL (Born in OH)
So I can easily rule any chemical out. We have the strictest quality checks on food in the world.
As far as I know the companies who do use any kind of preservative should have to note so on the bag, so if you don't see such a notation, I am guessing you can assume no preservatives were added. BUT - here's what they don't have to note: how they cleaned the items in the first place. Many, at least here in the US, use chemical solutions to clean pre-packaged greens, things like chlorine and ozone are added in order to ensure any dirt and various bacteria from soils they grow in are properly removed. Just another thing to keep in the back of your mind. It's a stretch, but what we humans can tolerate at our size is probably much more than what a cat's body can. (I do know I cannot eat pre-packaged salads because they taste 'funny' to me.)
I could discuss the case with him over the phone or email or through the vet and see if he agrees on having any tests done beforehand
Good luck with discussing potential up-front tests with the neurologist!!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
As far as I know the companies who do use any kind of preservative should have to note so on the bag, so if you don't see such a notation, I am guessing you can assume no preservatives were added. BUT - here's what they don't have to note: how they cleaned the items in the first place. Many, at least here in the US, use chemical solutions to clean pre-packaged greens, things like chlorine and ozone are added in order to ensure any dirt and various bacteria from soils they grow in are properly removed.
I have read a few pages on how these pre-packaged salads are prepared.
It seems that the whole process, from cropping them to selling them on the shelf is a completely safe process, at least over here. The washing is done with fresh water, recirculated and sanitized with small amount of chloride, but the washing is done several times, then there's a process of partial drying and then the packaging with protective atmosphere.
The protocol is very tight, so I don't think any potential risk in this kind of plants. The label on the package says it contains nothing else than plants, and any mineral comes from the plants themselves.

I have also read a few pages on salad and cats, and they say that radicchio, arugula, and the typical plants for salads are totally safe fro cats, some websites even encourage pet owners to feed some plants to cats, they are rich in Vit A, C and fibers.
It also seems that cats love arugula and radicchio, though this is the first time I see something like that in my home :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
UPDATE:

On last Thursday I was called by the neurologist who had eventually come out from his covid isolation and told me he could have seen Freya right away. So I immediately went home from work, got Freya and drove to the clinic.

The visit went well, the neurologist ran a few physical tests. Freya walked fine in the room, so no motor issues, her reflex are good. What the neurologist noticed is a reduced response to the visual threat, Freya's pupil response was slow or non-exisiting, as a matter of fact Freya was purring at the vet while he was performing the visual threat test.
Just like the vet who visited her nearly a month ago, he asked if Freya sees properly, in his opinion Freya is partially blind or has a reduced sight. Of course she sees perfectly, she chases and catches the smallest insects flying around. He said he noticed a slow growth too.
He also found two slightly enlarged lymph nodes behind her rear knees, and he said this is strange and along with a slightly altered electrophoresis test she had a month ago, the neurologist might suspect the chance of a dry FIP.
His advised me to wait a couple of weeks and run the electrophoresis test again. If nothing changes, then we shouldn't worry much, but if it changes, then a further test will be necessary to assess if Freya's brain has any damage and why, so the MRI is in the list.
Meanwhile I have to monitor her and see if anything weird happens. According to the neurologist, another episode could occur within three weeks from the second one, that is before the end of April.

Well, the first episode occurred 35 days ago, the second one 15 days ago, and no other signs of a dry FIP appeared, in my opinion. As far as I know, FIP is a rather quick disease, and it wouldn't sit 5 or more weeks without giving out any more symptoms.

This morning Freya had another occurrence.
She was fine, happy and loving early in the morning. Then she was at the window and saw and heard the waste collecting truck across the road. They were collecting a fridge that my neighbor was disposing of, the two men made lots of noise, Freya was scared and ran away. I didn't pay much attention to that, it was quite a normal behavior of a scared cat, but some minutes later, when all the noise had gone, she was still acting strangely and trying to hide in unusual places, she was doing things that she had never done before, some shivers ran own my spine.
Anyway, another 20 minutes went by and I was preparing their breakfast, all was fine and normal, Freya was meowing at my feet waiting for the dish to go to the floor. She ate all her breakfast as usual, then she acted strange again. This time she was looking at me as she didn't know me and her hair got bristled, her pupils wide open, and she was trembling. I tried to calm her down, I stretched my hand out to her, she stepped back, then came forward to smell my hand. She had to understand what it was, who I was. She wasn't responding to her name much.
I took some photos...

Freya_20210426_075606.jpg

Freya_20210426_075645.jpg


As you can see, she was scared. I let her calm down her own for about half an hour, then I called her to play with the bouncing ball, the game she loves the most, but she didn't want to play, and looked at me and the ball as we were aliens.
I had to leave and go to work, I told my wife to keep an eye on her.
The words of the neurologist were prophetic, and this morning I woke up with that in mind and I said he was wrong, no doubt. Last night Freya was as cute as ever.

I wonder if the traumatic event of the waste truck could have triggered this reaction a few minutes later. And I remembered that the night it happened for the first time, I had told her off loudly. The second time, though, she didn't have any scare in the hours before the episode. I don't know...
This thing doesn't look good!
 

FeebysOwner

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
12,764
Purraise
16,886
Location
Central FL (Born in OH)
As far as I know, FIP is a rather quick disease, and it wouldn't sit 5 or more weeks without giving out any more symptoms.
Dry FIP is slower in its progress than the wet version, but I agree with you - 5+ weeks should have exposed more issues.
I wonder if the traumatic event of the waste truck could have triggered this reaction a few minutes later. And I remembered that the night it happened for the first time, I had told her off loudly. The second time, though, she didn't have any scare in the hours before the episode. I don't know...
Seems like a reasonably valid conclusion! It is possible that you weren't 'right there' when something startled her the second time. Something to discuss with neurologist at any rate.

Poor Freya - she does look scared. Poor you too. Hang in there. And, thanks for the update.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38

Antonio65

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
4,059
Purraise
6,234
Location
Orbassano - Italy
Dry FIP is slower in its progress than the wet version, but I agree with you - 5+ weeks should have exposed more issues.
I'm completely scared at this diagnosis, I'm praying the neurologist is wrong!

Seems like a reasonably valid conclusion! It is possible that you weren't 'right there' when something startled her the second time. Something to discuss with neurologist at any rate.
Unless between the "startling something" and the visible event may pass hours, I don't remember anything at all shortly before the second occurrence. She had been sleeping on my lap for a couple of hours prior to that.
Whereas, about an hour before the first episode I had told her off heavily because she kept hiding in places where I couldn't find her and her game was driving me mad. I am constantly worried about my cats' wellbeing and safety, and when I don't see them around me or I can't find them I get very anxious. That night she was hiding too much and often, she was having fun with me, but I lost my patience and shouted at her.
And I had shouted at her again at dinner, three hours earlier, because she was getting very annoying with our dishes. She was putting her paws into just anything, trying to steal whataver was at... paw, knocking things over, she was driving me mad.

This matter was in the list of the thing to discuss with the neurologist on that afternoon, but we talked a lot, he was pressing me with lots of questions and there were too many details to say that at the end of the visit I had forgotten to tell him of this thing.

I sent him an email along with one of the photos above, and I expressed my doubts on the startling events, I'm awaiting his reply.
 
Top