Fostering a momma cat and her 5 kittens for the first time!

[emocatowner]

Momma just vomited and... there were some wiggly worms in there

Looks like roundworm. Unfortunately, all dewormers are prescription only in this country, so she really has to see a vet asap. I understand the kittens get infected through milk too, and it can be fatal for them quickly. I contacted the rescue to figure out how to go about getting them seen soon.

Hopefully the kittens will be ok for another day or two until we get this sorted. Is there anything I can do to make them all more comfy in the meanwhile?

 

[Kwik]

Momma just vomited and... there were some wiggly worms in there

Looks like roundworm. Unfortunately, all dewormers are prescription only in this country, so she really has to see a vet asap. I understand the kittens get infected through milk too, and it can be fatal for them quickly. I contacted the rescue to figure out how to go about getting them seen soon.

Hopefully the kittens will be ok for another day or two until we get this sorted. Is there anything I can do to make them all more comfy in the meanwhile?

Aww,poor thing must be loaded if she's vomiting them up- she really needs Rx ,Home remedies are insufficient especially in severe infestations.....
I really feel for this little Mama,she's got so much to deal with and considering it all she's taking it like a trooper,- she's going to be one terrific lil housecat when all is said and done
I love you for taking care of her and all her babies,I'm sending a really big hug,feel it?

 

[Sarthur2]

Does the rescue have Drontal or Fenbendazole on hand? Both will treat mom’s roundworms.

 

[emocatowner]

Does the rescue have Drontal or Fenbendazole on hand? Both will treat mom’s roundworms.

They said they had some dewormers, though they need to get in touch with the vet first and get their ok. Not sure if the vet will need to see the cat first or not, legislation is kinda strict and crazy.

Thankfully the cats seem ok, kittens are playful and putting on weight etc. I wouldn't even have known they had worms. Though in retrospect, they are eating a bit more than is normal, I think momma cat eats over 100g of kibble a day all on her own, plus wet food.

Also their bums look a bit weird, they look kinda dirty, with some black blobs. I've been gently wiping them with a cotton pad with warm water, though it's really hard to get them off (though I only gave very gentle wipes so far, tbh). I thought it was dried poo, and momma not teaching them how to wash properly, but maybe I should be more worried about it...

Reading about roundworm is fun. Apparently you're supposed to wear a mask when cleaning their litter boxes, else you might get infected? Probably not great that they're in the kitchen, where we prepare food. And apparently eggs stick to clothing, and the washing machine doesn't even get rid of them unless washed at a very high temp, so I guess I will also need to ask the vet for a dewormer for my resident gals...

 

[Kwik]

They said they had some dewormers, though they need to get in touch with the vet first and get their ok. Not sure if the vet will need to see the cat first or not, legislation is kinda strict and crazy.

Thankfully the cats seem ok, kittens are playful and putting on weight etc. I wouldn't even have known they had worms. Though in retrospect, they are eating a bit more than is normal, I think momma cat eats over 100g of kibble a day all on her own, plus wet food.

Also their bums look a bit weird, they look kinda dirty, with some black blobs. I've been gently wiping them with a cotton pad with warm water, though it's really hard to get them off (though I only gave very gentle wipes so far, tbh). I thought it was dried poo, and momma not teaching them how to wash properly, but maybe I should be more worried about it...

Reading about roundworm is fun. Apparently you're supposed to wear a mask when cleaning their litter boxes, else you might get infected? Probably not great that they're in the kitchen, where we prepare food. And apparently eggs stick to clothing, and the washing machine doesn't even get rid of them unless washed at a very high temp, so I guess I will also need to ask the vet for a dewormer for my resident gals...

Yeah,earlier you mentioned you cannot get any OTC dewormer " in this Country" - may I ask where you live? I thought you were in USA,it's quite different outside of America....I have some friends in Australia,talk about availability issues!!!! Though they are in WA,I'd imagine not so bad in the Eastern States?

 

[emocatowner]

Yeah,earlier you mentioned you cannot get any OTC dewormer " in this Country" - may I ask where you live? I thought you were in USA,it's quite different outside of America....I have some friends in Australia,talk about availability issues!!!! Though they are in WA,I'd imagine not so bad in the Eastern States?

Ah sorry, I'm in Denmark.

Things are quite bad here when it comes to medicine restrictions. My bottle baby died because vets aren't allowed to give either preventative antibiotics (even when we're talking about a kitten that never had colostrum), nor injectable antibiotics to neonates, even when there is a nasty infection going on that needs urgent care. My CKD cat wasn't allowed to have darbepoetin, the safest treatment for ckd-related anemia, and instead, after a ton of paperwork, could only have epoetin, which has a much higher chance of a negative reaction. My MIL almost died because she caught an antibiotic-resistant pneumonia from the hospital, and they didn't want to give her stronger antibiotics, because "eh, she's old, no point risking making bacteria resistant to the better antibiotics for someone who's already lived their lives". A friend has chronic pain from a back injury, but they cut off their painkillers and were told to make due with just ibuprofen, because it doesn't look good when so many people are on painkillers. And so much other bureaucratic nonsense like that.

Sorry for the rant. Could be worse, in Sweden you aren't allowed to give subcutaneous fluids to your cat if you aren't a trained medical professional! It's such a simple procedure once a vet teaches you how to do it, and it really improves the quality of life of a cat with CKD, so having to take the kitty in to the vet every time is not only crazy expensive, but also stressful for the cat. I'm glad I was at least allowed to do that for my old guy.

 

[Kwik]

Ah sorry, I'm in Denmark.

Things are quite bad here when it comes to medicine restrictions. My bottle baby died because vets aren't allowed to give either preventative antibiotics (even when we're talking about a kitten that never had colostrum), nor injectable antibiotics to neonates, even when there is a nasty infection going on that needs urgent care. My CKD cat wasn't allowed to have darbepoetin, the safest treatment for ckd-related anemia, and instead, after a ton of paperwork, could only have epoetin, which has a much higher chance of a negative reaction. My MIL almost died because she caught an antibiotic-resistant pneumonia from the hospital, and they didn't want to give her stronger antibiotics, because "eh, she's old, no point risking making bacteria resistant to the better antibiotics for someone who's already lived their lives". A friend has chronic pain from a back injury, but they cut off their painkillers and were told to make due with just ibuprofen, because it doesn't look good when so many people are on painkillers. And so much other bureaucratic nonsense like that.

Sorry for the rant. Could be worse, in Sweden you aren't allowed to give subcutaneous fluids to your cat if you aren't a trained medical professional! It's such a simple procedure once a vet teaches you how to do it, and it really improves the quality of life of a cat with CKD, so having to take the kitty in to the vet every time is not only crazy expensive, but also stressful for the cat. I'm glad I was at least allowed to do that for my old guy.

Wow-what a shame.... yeah,,I'd be ranting too..... just Wow!

 

[emocatowner]

Finally got the dewormer for momma cat! She was an excellent kitty that just lapped up the liquid treat with the dewormer in it (unlike my spoiled gal who only gives a couple licks to the post-spay painkiller in Churu)

Kittens need to wait until they are 1kg (2.2 pounds) before they get their own, though they should get some from momma's milk (assuming they still get to drink, she hasn't been eager to let them)

I will thoroughly wash the litter boxes both now and in a couple days, hopefully that way we'll get rid of the wigglers.

 

[emocatowner]

Boxes were washed first with Rodalon disinfectant, then with dishwashing soap, and then given some time with a UV-C lamp. Not sure that killed all roundworm eggs, I read they can be really hard to kill, but at least it should remove most of them.

I got them some Royal Canin Babycat kibble, as I'm running low on the Hill's kitten kibble I had for my girls. I'm also trying to figure out what to get them for a cheaper wet food, the wet Babycat I've been giving them would be too expensive for me long term (and the rescue would be providing cheap adult food only, I want to spoil them more than that). Do any of you know anything about Animonda Vom Feinsten Baby Paté? Seems to have similar consistency and nutritional profile.

Also not sure what to do about momma. She now considers the back of her microwave to be her home. Which is really bad for many reasons. First, I kinda wanna use the microwave, I need it to disinfect my neti pot. Second, the sun is shining right on there in the mornings, and she ripped the foil from the windows, so the sun shines directly on her and she's panting even when the rest of the room is under 27C (80F). Third, it's getting really dirty, she keeps tracking litter up there, and she growls whenever I try to clean it. I'm considering just moving the microwave, and hoping she uses the carrier I put up there instead, maybe moving one of the beds my girls don't use on the table (assuming she'd even want to be out in the open). Though I worry how much that would terrify her, and whether she'd find an even less desirable spot to hide in.

 

[Kwik]

Finally got the dewormer for momma cat! She was an excellent kitty that just lapped up the liquid treat with the dewormer in it (unlike my spoiled gal who only gives a couple licks to the post-spay painkiller in Churu)

Kittens need to wait until they are 1kg (2.2 pounds) before they get their own, though they should get some from momma's milk (assuming they still get to drink, she hasn't been eager to let them)

I will thoroughly wash the litter boxes both now and in a couple days, hopefully that way we'll get rid of the wigglers.

So what was the vets determinatuon

Boxes were washed first with Rodalon disinfectant, then with dishwashing soap, and then given some time with a UV-C lamp. Not sure that killed all roundworm eggs, I read they can be really hard to kill, but at least it should remove most of them.

I got them some Royal Canin Babycat kibble, as I'm running low on the Hill's kitten kibble I had for my girls. I'm also trying to figure out what to get them for a cheaper wet food, the wet Babycat I've been giving them would be too expensive for me long term (and the rescue would be providing cheap adult food only, I want to spoil them more than that). Do any of you know anything about Animonda Vom Feinsten Baby Paté? Seems to have similar consistency and nutritional profile.

Also not sure what to do about momma. She now considers the back of her microwave to be her home. Which is really bad for many reasons. First, I kinda wanna use the microwave, I need it to disinfect my neti pot. Second, the sun is shining right on there in the mornings, and she ripped the foil from the windows, so the sun shines directly on her and she's panting even when the rest of the room is under 27C (80F). Third, it's getting really dirty, she keeps tracking litter up there, and she growls whenever I try to clean it. I'm considering just moving the microwave, and hoping she uses the carrier I put up there instead, maybe moving one of the beds my girls don't use on the table (assuming she'd even want to be out in the open). Though I worry how much that would terrify her, and whether she'd find an even less desirable spot to hide in.

Oh my goodness,they are too cute ....

Can't you stick a carrier in place of the microwave,probably not much difference in size & shape?If not some sort of milk crate or box you might have that doesn't look that unlike the microwave?

 

[emocatowner]

So what was the vets determinatuon

Oh my goodness,they are too cute ....

Can't you stick a carrier in place of the microwave,probably not much difference in size & shape?If not some sort of milk crate or box you might have that doesn't look that unlike the microwave?

The vet didn't get to see them, they just got a video of the worm and agreed to prescribe the dewormer, for now. Still not sure how the rescue wants to handle checkups etc., we need to nag them a bit about that. They've been busy dealing with the other kittens in that colony, it sounds like the other fosters need a lot of supplies and handholding, plus they need to trap the cat and convince the locals to not pay the big shelter to trap them put them to sleep. But at least they got us the dewormer.

So this is what it currently looks like. I used to have an air fryer there that I moved out of the way. I hoped she'd use the carrier with a nice blanket in. She climbs on it at night to mew for tomcats, but doesn't really use it otherwise. I'm thinking of just moving the microwave to another room, and putting the carrier where it used to be, or just leaving it where it is if momma goes in it instead.
Though I half expect she'll go hide behind the bread machine instead, where it's even harder to clean. She previously spent some time behind there too, though I guess she doesn't like it as much due to the lack of escape routes.
I definitely need to set up the office or find a better solution for the next batch of fosters. I bought a better cage solution, but they definitely will need to go out at some point, particularly as the kittens grow and momma gets sick of them.

 

[Kwik]

The vet didn't get to see them, they just got a video of the worm and agreed to prescribe the dewormer, for now. Still not sure how the rescue wants to handle checkups etc., we need to nag them a bit about that. They've been busy dealing with the other kittens in that colony, it sounds like the other fosters need a lot of supplies and handholding, plus they need to trap the cat and convince the locals to not pay the big shelter to trap them put them to sleep. But at least they got us the dewormer.

So this is what it currently looks like. I used to have an air fryer there that I moved out of the way. I hoped she'd use the carrier with a nice blanket in. She climbs on it at night to mew for tomcats, but doesn't really use it otherwise. I'm thinking of just moving the microwave to another room, and putting the carrier where it used to be, or just leaving it where it is if momma goes in it instead.
Though I half expect she'll go hide behind the bread machine instead, where it's even harder to clean. She previously spent some time behind there too, though I guess she doesn't like it as much due to the lack of escape routes.
I definitely need to set up the office or find a better solution for the next batch of fosters. I bought a better cage solution, but they definitely will need to go out at some point, particularly as the kittens grow and momma gets sick of them.

I see,so just put the carrier in place of the microwave so she can hide in the same spot ,not to go in it because it's highly likely she wont- face the door to the center of the window .... it should seem like the same thing to her- maybe even drape a light blanket or towel over it so she does not see through the carrier vents

Sounds like it might work - she apparently prefers hiding in that corner,why not?

 

[Sarthur2]

You have a lovely view out that window! I see why mama cat likes it.

 

[emocatowner]

We moved it, though momma isn't very happy about it. She hopped down for a moment, then hopped back up there and growled as I gave her some treats and placed the water back next to her. At first I thought my neighbors were drilling, nope, it's momma's growl

I'll give her a moment for now, and then I need to decide if I should bother cleaning, or just put the carrier there for her.

You have a lovely view out that window! I see why mama cat likes it.

It really is! That's one reason I was reluctant to give up my office tbh, my gals love just sitting on the windowsil looking out. The kitchen windowsil is always full of appliances, though tbh I should get rid of some of them and just make a nice cat spot in the kitchen, that way I'll feel less guilty for locking them out of my office in the future.

 

[emocatowner]

Well, that was a bit of a disaster

I cleaned the area and put the carrier up there. She knocked the carrier off, and into the litter box. Glad there weren't any kittens in there when it happened!

I moved the table so it's just under her corner, and put the carrier on the table, so she gets a bit of cover from it, and can go in it. But she is not having it. Whenever I go in the room, she goes under the table and growls at me. She refuses treats while we're in the room, which is a regression. Though she actually slow blinked at me a few times while she was growling, so hopefully after she relaxes a bit over night, it'll be more ok.

And just as I was preparing for bed, she peed on a blanket I had on the floor that the kittens had been sleeping on! Poor thing is really terrified.

On the other hand, there were poo streaks on the side of my microwave, close to the wall, that she was rubbing against every time she hopped up there. Also on the window. And lots and lots of litter. It really needed to be cleaned. Now I just gotta decide if I want to put it back up there, or what I should replace it with. Maybe I can prop the carrier up there so it doesn't fall, and have the table in the way if I mess it up?

 

[Kwik]

emocatowner
Oh my goodness-all I can say is" Don't ya just hate when that happens"?!!!!You have this simple little plan in your head and it ends up a mess!
I completely understand-brought in Timmy a month ago,he's doing very well in his indoor enclosure,getting very comfortable-I had put together a caged area in front of the door where I enter and exit the enclosure so he cannot get out into the house( yet).. hes getting so relaxed he now enjoys that part of the caged area as well & I leave the door open....that part is carpeted which is a delightful new pleasure he really likes

Well,I have wood atop that caged area so he cannot leap over & don't you know it all came crashing down the other day as I decided to add another bed etc....poor little guy was terrified ( as was I).. took a couple of days for him to feel safe out there once again but I think it's forgotten now...,5 steps forward,3 steps back and such is life,right?

Ohhh,what we do for love- shell get past it and she'll eventually realize you're a friend- sweet little darlings

 

[emocatowner]

emocatowner
Oh my goodness-all I can say is" Don't ya just hate when that happens"?!!!!You have this simple little plan in your head and it ends up a mess!
I completely understand-brought in Timmy a month ago,he's doing very well in his indoor enclosure,getting very comfortable-I had put together a caged area in front of the door where I enter and exit the enclosure so he cannot get out into the house( yet).. hes getting so relaxed he now enjoys that part of the caged area as well & I leave the door open....that part is carpeted which is a delightful new pleasure he really likes

Well,I have wood atop that caged area so he cannot leap over & don't you know it all came crashing down the other day as I decided to add another bed etc....poor little guy was terrified ( as was I).. took a couple of days for him to feel safe out there once again but I think it's forgotten now...,5 steps forward,3 steps back and such is life,right?

Ohhh,what we do for love- shell get past it and she'll eventually realize you're a friend- sweet little darlings

Yea I definitely know the 5 steps forward, 3 steps back part... I've seen it a lot with my own girls these past few months, though they're so much braver already! I woke up today and the scarediest of them was sleeping in bed with me!

I'm more worried about momma cat because our time with her is more limited. There's already other kittens in need of a foster...
But she's already doing a bit better this morning. She's sitting on the windowsill and slow blinking at us, and if we get close, she only hisses instead of growling!
I've been thinking of setting up a new hidey hole for her up there, but maybe it is best to leave her out in the open a bit?
The only slightly worrisome thing so far is that she's eating less, but I'm hoping that's just because we're no longer feeding all the worms inside her too.

I was also worried about the kittens, and how momma's fear will affect them.
We were doing so well with them before this, they were all ok with being picked up and petted, no struggling. There was a cute moment where they were sleeping and I released the steam in my pressure cooker, they all quickly opened their eyes and looked at me startled, then went right back to sleep, like "oh the scary hiss is just humans doing weird human stuff, nothing to worry about". Vacuuming in the kitchen was becoming a problem too, since they are starting to investigate the vacuum, instead of running away from it.
This morning, they were a bit more skittish, but hopefully they'll recover after a few rounds of play and treats.

 

[Kwik]

The kittens will be fine but I do understand your feelings about Mama cat-especially if there's concern about loss of appetite
I'll tell you,tye ferals can get depressed after they are captured & in confinement( indoors) but it passes,there's soothing cat music you can play,maybe if one of your girls are brave you can bring her food where Mana can see & hear her eating( sometimes motivates) and top the food off with some strong smelling sardine or mackeral,tuna..... they can go quite awhile without food-Timmy got so depressed he stopped eating for days-I really got concerned except he was drinking well.....he didn't come out from hiding in his cubby for over 2 wks... but "curiosity killed the cat" so to speak----
Keep talking to her,no eye contact,love,patience and it's okay if she hides..... put her food near her hiding space & gradually move it further & further as she gets comfortable If you ask me there's not a cat on the planet who cannot learn to live happily indoors and have a home.... they just need a chance,love and patience

 

[emocatowner]

The kittens will be fine but I do understand your feelings about Mama cat-especially if there's concern about loss of appetite
I'll tell you,tye ferals can get depressed after they are captured & in confinement( indoors) but it passes,there's soothing cat music you can play,maybe if one of your girls are brave you can bring her food where Mana can see & hear her eating( sometimes motivates) and top the food off with some strong smelling sardine or mackeral,tuna..... they can go quite awhile without food-Timmy got so depressed he stopped eating for days-I really got concerned except he was drinking well.....he didn't come out from hiding in his cubby for over 2 wks... but "curiosity killed the cat" so to speak----
Keep talking to her,no eye contact,love,patience and it's okay if she hides..... put her food near her hiding space & gradually move it further & further as she gets comfortable If you ask me there's not a cat on the planet who cannot learn to live happily indoors and have a home.... they just need a chance,love and patience

The reason I'm not too worried about it yet is that she is eating the amount a cat her weight should be eating. Like, previously, she was eating like 200g kibble a night, plus 2 pouches wet food spread across 4 meals during the day (and treats). Now she's eating about 50-60g of kibble, and still eating the wet food and treats. I also started the switch from Hill's kitten kibble to Royal Canin Babycat, which is more calorie dense. And she's feeding the kittens less milk. Between that and the dewormer, it makes sense she's eating less. I'll try to keep weighing her, and if I see an actual weight loss, I'll figure something out.

But yea she does have a history that at her previous foster, she'd just stare into space and refuse to eat, which is why they returned her to her colony without spaying her first. I hope it's just because they had small kids, which tends to be more stressful. She seems a lot happier with us so far, though she keeps pawing at the windows to get out etc, so I don't think she's super happy. She's also kinda sick of the kittens at this point, always trying to be up high, yet the kittens are almost big enough to climb to her.

We always talk to her softly whenever we go in the kitchen, even if she's growling. Whenever we make eye contact, we slow blink and look away. I often give her treats when I go in the kitchen, particularly if I'm spending a bit more time in there to load the dishwasher or something. They'll continue socializing her at the rescue, though hopefully we're giving her a good head start.

 

[Sarthur2]

I sense that mama will need a patient and loving home in the end, and that moving in and out of foster homes and the shelter may set her back. Sigh … (You’re doing a great job with her though!)