Dietary fads

[Willowy]

I guess nobody knows what animal is used in animal/meat byproduct?

Seriously some of the stuff is frightening. I'm reading things like euthanized cats being used for this.

Am I making my cat a cannibal by feeding them this?

According to USDA guidelines, if it's labeled "meat" (such as meat by-products or meat and bone meal) it must be from cows, pigs, sheep, or goats. Anything weird like horse or llama would need to be labeled specifically.

Roadkill and euthanized pets and whatnot go into other products, such as livestock feed :/. So, yeah, the pigs you eat probably ate cats (and, um, "poultry litter") but cats and dogs are not in cat and dog food. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1867957/#!po=13.1579

Commercial foods haven't been around for long. If anything is a "fad", it's probably convenience foods.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

According to USDA guidelines, if it's labeled "meat" (such as meat by-products or meat and bone meal) it must be from cows, pigs, sheep, or goats. Anything weird like horse or llama would need to be labeled specifically.



Commercial foods haven't been around for long. If anything is a "fad", it's probably convenience foods.

Thanks for the USDA summary, Willowy.  As to convenience foods being latecomers, you're certainly right.  I believe that Pussy Kat, Switch, Daily, Cadillac, Three Little Kitties and Calo all hit the market a couple of years on either side of 1952 - just after Huff and Puff made such a splash at the end of the 1940s.  Puss'n'Boots was the late-comer.

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[livelovepurr]

Roadkill and euthanized pets and whatnot go into other products, such as livestock feed :/. So, yeah, the pigs you eat probably ate cats (and, um, "poultry litter") but cats and dogs are not in cat and dog food.

You couldn't be more wrong. I've said this already and I'll say it again: an animal that has been chemically euthanized cannot be used as a food product ESPECIALLY for animals that humans consume. It is illegal.

 

[Willowy]

You couldn't be more wrong. I've said this already and I'll say it again: an animal that has been chemically euthanized cannot be used as a food product ESPECIALLY for animals that humans consume. It is illegal.

I can't find the USDA guideline on that, one way or the other. Do you have a link? I imagine they'd have to keep the barbituate level fairly low to avoid ill effects but I can't find anything that says it's not allowed.

I've seen what goes to the rendering plant, in farm country you see a lot of it . Livestock feed ingredients can be labeled as "animal protein" so that covers everything.

 

[IndyJones]

I've seen animal protein in cat food as well.

 

[orange&white]

You couldn't be more wrong. I've said this already and I'll say it again: an animal that has been chemically euthanized cannot be used as a food product ESPECIALLY for animals that humans consume. It is illegal.

We've already established that the FDA found levels of phenobarbital in pet kibble, so it had to come from some animal.  They tested to ensure that it didn't come from cats and dogs.

 

[Willowy]

I've seen animal protein in cat food as well.

Huh, I haven't. Although I wouldn't doubt it in some of the really cheap foods.

 

[livelovepurr]

I can't find the USDA guideline on that, one way or the other. Do you have a link? I imagine they'd have to keep the barbituate level fairly low to avoid ill effects but I can't find anything that says it's not allowed.

I've seen what goes to the rendering plant, in farm country you see a lot of it . Livestock feed ingredients can be labeled as "animal protein" so that covers everything.

You can start with your state's regulations. http://www.vetca.org/lacd/index.cfm

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

 
We've already established that the FDA found levels of phenobarbital in pet kibble, so it had to come from some animal.  They tested to ensure that it didn't come from cats and dogs.

Phenobarbital - either alone or in concert with potassium bromide - is used in commercial livestock husbandry for the control of seizures in goats, sheep, pigs, horses and cattle.

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[orange&white]

Here is a perfect example:
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/gourmet-kitty-homemade-cat-food.html

Extremely unbalanced. And people do this. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I agree with you.  The recipes listed in that article are not balanced diets.  At the end of the article, the author refers readers to catinfo.org and Dr. Pierson's balanced recipes for people who want to feed 100% homemade/raw and not an occasional homemade meal supplemental to commercial diet (which is what the author says she does).  Many people won't read the whole article, and the author is leading people down the wrong path toward a poor diet for their cats.

A few people in the comments section tried to warn other readers that those recipes are not balanced.  Very careless indeed.

 

[cindycrna]

I'm bowing out. The OP has been here 3 days and she'a PIA. And brainwashed. Canned is fine, dry is fine but high quality comercial raw isn't a fad, it's what they are supposed to eat and don't hold vet prescription diets on a pedestal because we all know that they are expensive high carb full of grain crap.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

 
Thanks for the USDA summary, Willowy.  As to convenience foods being latecomers, you're certainly right.  I believe that Pussy Kat, Switch, Daily, Cadillac, Three Little Kitties and Calo all hit the market a couple of years on either side of 1952 - just after Huff and Puff made such a splash at the end of the 1940s.  Puss'n'Boots was the late-comer.

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How could I forget Acme, Goff, Roxy and Kitty-Kat cat foods?  All four brands were being canned by 1941:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_...9EQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage&q=Goff Cat Food&f=false

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[orange&white]

 
Phenobarbital - either alone or in concert with potassium bromide - is used in commercial livestock husbandry for the control of seizures in goats, sheep, pigs, horses and cattle.

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Sheesh...sorry about that, my mistake.  The euthanasia drug we already discussed here was pentobarbital (not phenobarbital).

 

[IndyJones]

... don't hold vet prescription diets on a pedestal because we all know that they are expensive high carb full of grain crap.

Not all vet diets are crap. Some have a purpose for example if I stop feeding Kabby urinary SO what do you propose I feed him? He had kidney stones and this food is supposed to dissolve them which it has. If I take him off it he'll get stones again. So what else is there for cats with crystals or kidney stones?

 

[Willowy]

You can start with your state's regulations. http://www.vetca.org/lacd/index.cfm

All the links for my state are dead :/. But I did look up the state carcass disposal guidelines and they only say that the carcass must be burned, buried, or picked up by the rendering truck within 36 hours. It said nothing about cause of death, unless it was a communicable disease and then the carcass needs to be burned. But nothing about chemical euthanasia.

 

[IndyJones]

Is this only for the states? I live in Canada so need something more local do you have one for provinces?

All the links for my state are dead :/. But I did look up the state carcass disposal guidelines and they only say that the carcass must be burned, buried, or picked up by the rendering truck within 36 hours. It said nothing about cause of death, unless it was a communicable disease and then the carcass needs to be burned. But nothing about chemical euthanasia.

 

[livelovepurr]

I'm bowing out. The OP has been here 3 days and she'a PIA. And brainwashed. Canned is fine, dry is fine but high quality comercial raw isn't a fad, it's what they are supposed to eat and don't hold vet prescription diets on a pedestal because we all know that they are expensive high carb full of grain crap.

Your personal attacks on me only make my ideology stronger. If brainwashed means that I'm well-versed in the scientific studies done on raw pet food, then yes I'm brainwashed. At least I have resources behind me, something you don't have. Have a good day

 

[laura mae]

Even if there was a recall on food having pento in it, it was recalled for a reason. Pet food isn't routinely tested for pento. And what brand was it? I suspect lower quality brands that source their ingredients from cheaper places are more likely to have issues with that. It IS illegal to use animals that have been chemically euthanized as a food source.

And people keep bringing up Hill's having recalls. You do realize that every brand of food can and will be recalled eventually, right? Even the food we consume has recalls. Baby food gets recalls, for goodness sake.

A whole mouse may have all the nutrition a cats needs, but guess what mice eat. Wild cats get their fiber through their prey. Are you letting your cat go out and eat mice?

And you guys think I'm stuck on kibble. Nowhere did I day that kibble is the healthiest food. Nowhere. Canned foods are healthiest, no doubt about it. I'd LOVE to feed my cats canned food, but it isn't within my budget, so I choose to feed them a higher quality kibble that I trust. I'm sorry to disappoint you?

My issue is with you guys mostly trying to persuade people to feed their cats a raw diet or homemade diet, when time and time again studies show that 1) raw diets have the potential to make a pet very ill OR cause a serious illness in somebody in the household if the pet is asymptomatic and 2) homemade diets lack the rounded nutrition cats need, such as thiamine and taurine. I even see people recommending homemade diets to people who have never owned a cat before! Are you trying to kill their cat? Just stop.

I brought this topic up because this is very serious. Not only does salmonella, listeria, and e. choli affect cats and dogs, but it is zoonotic which means it can affect people too. That is like you eating the raw pork chop in your freezer. You wouldn't do it, and why? Because it has the potential to make you ill. Why would you give that to your pet?

Clearly I've made some people upset for challenging them on their feeding habits. Good. I've provided many resources and studies to back me up and not one single person has provided me anything reliable to counteract me.

Until somebody can provide me with any research that says raw foods are safe for pets, I will continue to disagree with you.

It was Evangers and a specific beef dog food that had the drug in it. Evangers is in Illinois---loads of trouble with that plant consistently over many years.

 

[goingpostal]

I have to say the need for "proof" that raw food is safe for animals seems a bit hilarious to me. 

 

[laura mae]

Phenobarbital is different than PENTObarbital, correct?   The latter is the drug used to put down animals. The first is used for epilepsy in treatment, as an example.

As for the foods, I think that different  cats do well on different kinds of food. Every pet food manufacturer and every proponent of specific kinds of diets have an agenda that they would like to promote. I think that there is a lot of fear-mongering about foods in general from blogs that like to induce panic in people about their own food and food for their pets. As I understand it, the law has a pretty loose definition of what can be in pet foods, but that doesn't mean that pet food manufacturers use those more disgusting ingredients that are the most vivid portraits used in fear-mongering blogs.  

That said, I look at Hills and Royal Canin diets and it doesn't take a Ph.D. to understand corn gluten meal high up in the list of ingredients probably isn't the long term best choice for a cat. But I will say that Hills A/D has helped a couple of my cats in the short term and without it they wouldn't have lived.

High end canned food isn't always independently packed in their own plants. In the early 2000s, during the melamine crisis when Chinese sources of wheat gluten were being poisoned with melamine and inadvertently put in cat foods, several brands of food were affected including IAMS, Nutro, and Natural Balance and a couple of others. There were two specific packing plants that were most affected and it pulled the curtain back on where some of the smaller brands were made in some ways. It affected multiple brands. 

Purina was never part of the recall. And I know that Purina gets the stink eye a lot but I will say this, I had a cat that lived to 19 on Fancy Feast and a little Purina One kibble. She had fantastic teeth and was healthy, good muscle tone and playful for most of her life. She ended up with arthritis that made her last years less active (big Maine Coon) but she loved Fancy Feast and did well on it. 

I still rotate Purina in with the other foods and still shy away from the foods caught up in the melamin issue.  

If I made my own cat food, it would be with a pre-mix supplement, but my guess is that my cats wouldn't like it. The most I went with "raw" was the freeze-dried raw that you re-hydrate. That turned out to be a terrible choice for one cat, and the others are not fans. In any case, self-righteousness on either side of the food argument isn't helpful.