CKD diagnosis - what to expect

[blumarine916]

Oh, no.
I am so sorry.
The numbers didn't improve at all?
That is just disheartening.

I really thought that you'd get another year, or two, depending on how much of the kidneys were functioning.
It just seemed to come on so suddenly, so I was hoping that it was some sort of infection, or something that could be maintained, with good quality of function left.

At this point, if the Vet is saying end stage CKD, then I would just feed your Meffy whatever she wants, or likes.
If it's cooked/boiled fish, or treats, snacks, whatever.

But don't give up right away, you never know.
Don't lose Hope, yet.
Vets can be wrong, and cats can surprise you.
Still do the sub-q's...and try to get her to eat, whatever she wants.

Maybe something on this thread, would offer some tips to try and get Meffy to eat:
Any Good Tips To Get Your Cats To Eat? Share Them Here!


Maybe your Meimey is also sensitive to sound, and the way a person talks, if your bf has a lower tone voice, or walks louder than you do.
That is funny, though, that he's the one who brought her home, from the street, and then she prefers the softer sounding female. lol.
Could also do with who feeds her, and the way you move,...and who she just bonded with more,...like you said.

It's so interesting, since I was going to ask you about Meffy, and being found in an alley.
Meffy is so beautiful, with all those colours.
Do a lot of the street kittens have these type of looks?
I guess there are all kinds of cats out there, but for some reason I just cannot picture Meffy being in some alley somewhere, and waiting for you to find her. That must have been special for both of you. Like it was meant to be.

Oh yes, Stray Calicos are in abundance here. There’s even one who hangs out at our lift lobby below who has gotten fat because she’s sweetie and everyone who passes feed her. Even I feed her sometimes. At my parent’s house there’s even a colony of Siamese cats which someone left behind years ago. They keep growing.

Yeah I think Meimey is afraid of his big voice or movements. If I was feeding her she’d meow next to me until I set the plate down. But with him, she’d hide under a dining chair and he’ll put the plate in front of her. This way, no scary eye contact. It’s a permanent social distancing. Which is why he doesn’t feel anything for Meimey.

 

[cat nap]

Oh yes, Stray Calicos are in abundance here. There’s even one who hangs out at our lift lobby below who has gotten fat because she’s sweetie and everyone who passes feed her. Even I feed her sometimes. At my parent’s house there’s even a colony of Siamese cats which someone left behind years ago. They keep growing.

Wow, I guess I just don't notice calicos as much, around here, walking around. Mostly grey tabbies, black, and bi-colour cats..grey/white and black/white, solid greys, and some mixed looking tortie type cats. Also orange tabbies.
I've never seen just siamese or calicos,...or maybe just don't pay attention so well.
It's probably just my area, too. (I'm going to keep my eyes more open, now.)

Lol. That 'lift lobby cat' must act like the 'official security lift cat'...and appreciates the many meals.
She probably knows every human that lives there, and knows the 'schedule and voices' of all the humans.

Yeah I think Meimey is afraid of his big voice or movements. If I was feeding her she’d meow next to me until I set the plate down. But with him, she’d hide under a dining chair and he’ll put the plate in front of her. This way, no scary eye contact. It’s a permanent social distancing. Which is why he doesn’t feel anything for Meimey.

Ahh, that's too bad about your bf not feeling anything for Meimey.
Tell him to not to take it personally.
That Meimey still appreciates him feeding her,...but she is just too shy and timid, and sensitive, to be able to freely express her appreciation.
"permanent social distancing"....that's kind of a cute way of describing it.

 

[blumarine916]

I tried to feed Meffy some fried chicken, only the meat. She loves KFC. She only ate like 1 inch and then stopped. I could see she was really eager to eat it when she smelled it from the box but not much luck with it either.
cat nap Lobby cat once rode the elevator to my floor. I saw her outside my door once Sent her back to the G floor. She knows where to get off too.

The Siamese cats once lived in a house of a Thai shaman. Yes, those who read fortune or predict lottery numbers or put spells on people. There were like 5 of those cats always outside his house. But when he moved away, he left all of them there so the neighbors around just fed them until today.

 

[cat nap]

I tried to feed Meffy some fried chicken, only the meat. She loves KFC. She only ate like 1 inch and then stopped. I could see she was really eager to eat it when she smelled it from the box but not much luck with it either.

Oh, no.
KFC is supposed to entice many cats due to it's Smell, and I guess taste, too. (maybe the skin part, even if salty and greasy would get her to eat.)

Try anything on that list, which I am going to re-post on this page, so you don't have to go back, or bookmark:
Any Good Tips To Get Your Cats To Eat? Share Them Here!

Mirtazapine, from your Vet would probably get her to eat, but it does cause some cats to get agitated, restless, vocal, and drooling.
(for my cat it did, but maybe if you give the smallest dose possible, just like a sliver of a pill, then it might be okay.)

Your vet should have given you a painkiller, too, since even if too strong, (it at least helped my cat sleep in his last two weeks.)

What is so different about your Meffy, is that the photo you posted, does not make her look so bad.
Yes, she had puffy legs, and water weight, like you mentioned, but her eyes still looked clear, her fur looked good, and she didn't look like a cat who's organs were shutting down.

With 'end stage' I know you are in 'palliative care for Meffy'...but I would still try the B12 shots, and also the mirtazapine, while doing the sub-q fluids at home.

You might only have a month left, but at least, I don't know, you'd maybe feel better in trying them.
Or else, just have a plan in place, for when it really gets bad, and you'll have to say goodbye.
Whatever you decide, is okay.

Once Meffy's quality of life, is no longer here, and she cannot eat, due to mouth ulcers, or total weakness, then you'll know.
End Stage Feline Kidney Disease | LoveToKnow

It's just weird to me, that your Meffy still looks good.
But I guess photos don't really tell the whole picture, and only you will know, since you know her the best.
Again, I am so sorry that she has to go through this.

cat nap Lobby cat once rode the elevator to my floor. I saw her outside my door once Sent her back to the G floor. She knows where to get off too.

Lol. Lobby cat sounds hilarious.
It's like you all have your 'own personal 'doorman/doorwoman...door/cat'...or 'security cat'...who patrols the place.
Probably in a previous life, Lobby cat had that type of job, maybe.

The Siamese cats once lived in a house of a Thai shaman. Yes, those who read fortune or predict lottery numbers or put spells on people. There were like 5 of those cats always outside his house. But when he moved away, he left all of them there so the neighbors around just fed them until today.

Interesting. If it were me, and it was allowed, I would probably adopt a few, and bring home some 'lottery tickets'...or 'place some post-it notes' with numbers on them, and have the cats 'choose the winning numbers'. That would be amazing. Of course, I guess it would have already been tried, and the cats are way too smart to give the 'dumb humans like me' the correct numbers. They know that money does not solve everything. But still, it would be nice.

It's good that the neighbours there, feed them.
Kind souls, and hearts, all over the world.

 

[blumarine916]

I have transdermal Mirtazapine that I can use on her ear every 3 days. It makes her “talk” all of a sudden because my vet told me it is also an anti-depressant. Not sure what happens if I rubbed that on someone’s ear. Maybe they’ll start karaoke night . But yeah, it says 1mil but that’s a lot to squirt so I use it sparingly. Don’t want to make Meffy all confused.

I know right. Yes she still looks like that. Like not sick at all. But she’s been sleeping a lot. I brush her daily and use a damp kitchen towel to wipe her fur since she isn’t grooming much. It’s just weird thinking of putting down a cat that looks normal.

You’re funny. Maybe some people have adopted the kittens. All the Siamese cats are intact so they’re always having kittens and mating with the “general population” toms so some mixed kittens have blue eyes or partial spotted/striped siamese. They’re very beautiful. One of those neighbors are my parents. They went from feeding pigeons to feeding cats.

 

[cat nap]

I have transdermal Mirtazapine that I can use on her ear every 3 days. It makes her “talk” all of a sudden because my vet told me it is also an anti-depressant. Not sure what happens if I rubbed that on someone’s ear. Maybe they’ll start karaoke night . But yeah, it says 1mil but that’s a lot to squirt so I use it sparingly. Don’t want to make Meffy all confused.

Oh, transdermal is supposed to be even better, for not interfering with digestion, or the way it's absorbed.

Hahaha...I'm funny, but you are hilarious.
"Not sure what happens if I rubbed that on someone’s ear. Maybe they’ll start karaoke night "
I cannot stop laughing now.
You would have to make sure that you 'rubbed it on someone who can actually sing, though'
Could you imagine if you tried it on the 'wrong person with a terrible voice'.
All the tom cats and strays would come running, or maybe...run, far, far away.

"karaoke night"...with free mirtazapine ear gels...for those who want to sing all night long.
yeah, we'd all be arrested, for listening, singing, and laughing, too. lol.

Aren't you supposed to wear those little 'finger cots'...to make sure that the humans don't absorb the gel??
I think that's how it works,...but I've only ever tried the pill kind, with my cat.

I know right. Yes she still looks like that. Like not sick at all. But she’s been sleeping a lot. I brush her daily and use a damp kitchen towel to wipe her fur since she isn’t grooming much. It’s just weird thinking of putting down a cat that looks normal.

Yeah, she still looks good.
Good on you, for wiping her fur.
That must make her feel so much better.

You’re funny. Maybe some people have adopted the kittens. All the Siamese cats are intact so they’re always having kittens and mating with the “general population” toms so some mixed kittens have blue eyes or partial spotted/striped siamese. They’re very beautiful. One of those neighbors are my parents. They went from feeding pigeons to feeding cats.

Your parents sound great.
I bet the pigeons are mad, though. (no pigeon emoji)
But the cats must be overjoyed.

 

[blumarine916]

How much fluid do you give your cat in a day? The vet was giving Meffy 300ml a day which is a lot for her. Now that she’s home I want to reduce it since according to the support forum, cats only need 60- 75mil a day. It may be the reason why she doesn’t want to eat, because she feels so bloated all the time . Poor thing keeps getting pumped with so much fluids she must be so uncomfortable. No wonder her breathing seem a bit harsh.

cat nap Good for party nights. Just rub your ears and let it go..let it go….whoops someone’s feeling Elsa already.

It’s nice that your cats tolerate being pilled. Meffy is a monster when she sees a pill. All that aggressive growling and head snapping/biting.

 

[cat nap]

How much fluid do you give your cat in a day? The vet was giving Meffy 300ml a day which is a lot for her. Now that she’s home I want to reduce it since according to the support forum, cats only need 60- 75mil a day. It may be the reason why she doesn’t want to eat, because she feels so bloated all the time . Poor thing keeps getting pumped with so much fluids she must be so uncomfortable. No wonder her breathing seem a bit harsh.

Some days were 100ml...and some days were 50ml.

So I guess that support forum makes sense...at 60-75ml...because on the days that I gave 100ml,..then it did take longer to absorb, and move all over, too.

Your thinking makes sense,...because yes, who would want to eat, if they are bloated.
Makes sense about the breathing, too.

cat nap Good for party nights. Just rub your ears and let it go..let it go….whoops someone’s feeling Elsa already.

Hahaha...Elsa from Frozen...fantastic.
"Just rub your ears and let it go..let it go" ....
This party night...I want to join. lol..."let it go, let it go"...

It’s nice that your cats tolerate being pilled. Meffy is a monster when she sees a pill. All that aggressive growling and head snapping/biting.

Meffy doing some "aggressive growling and head snapping/biting"??
What is she, a pretty dragon?...when it comes to pilling.

The trick is to not let the cats see it coming, and be fast, fast, fast.
Then chase it down, with a small needless syringe of water...or some pureed, mushy, wet food.
'Delectable Squeeze Up treats' are good.

 

[cat nap]

Here's another good video, for when you have to give cats medication.
(I wish I would have done it this way. Have not tried, yet.)


Or how she uses a clicker with medicating, too.

 

[blumarine916]

Here's another good video, for when you have to give cats medication.
(I wish I would have done it this way. Have not tried, yet.)


Or how she uses a clicker with medicating, too.

Lol tried this. Didn’t work. It’s weird that neither of my cats care about these squeeze treats. I was expecting some really excited licks like in the ad but they just took one lick and nope, left me there standing with a half finished tube. I had to give the packets. Meimey won’t even eat Temptations or Greenies.

cat nap Do you give the subQs daily or only when they look dehydrated?

 

[cat nap]

Lol tried this. Didn’t work. It’s weird that neither of my cats care about these squeeze treats. I was expecting some really excited licks like in the ad but they just took one lick and nope, left me there standing with a half finished tube. I had to give the packets. Meimey won’t even eat Temptations or Greenies.

Wow, my cats love those squeeze treats. They act like I'm giving them real tuna, and cannot believe that the packets are so small.

Maybe your cats just have different tastes, and don't trust things that come in packages.
Perhaps they only like real home made food, and don't buy into all that 'pre processed cat food treats'.

(Mine are also weird in that they love temptations, but when I tried a healthier 'pure bites freeze dried chicken treats,'...they acted like it was not even food. Took one sniff, and walked away. (I'm pretty sure my previous cats, and aunt's cat liked it, so why not mine...idk))

All our cats must have such unique tastes, just like us humans.

cat nap Do you give the subQs daily or only when they look dehydrated?

End stage I was giving them daily, but lowered the amount, depending on if my cat looked...like he was absorbing them slower.

(For me, though, my rainbow cat Spotty, had both ckd and HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)...so both heart and kidney issues. Because of his heart issues, then my young Vet, at the time, had said that too much fluid would be dangerous to his heart. It was terrible because the treatment for one:..being fluids for kidneys...would have the opposite effect on his heart...and then cause him to die. Heart issues, for him, were supposed to be less fluids, not more,...while kidney issues were supposed to be more. It was a tremendously difficult to treat situation.)

With your Meffy, because she has Azotemia...then I'm not sure what the protocol would be, to flush out the toxins.
Did your Vet give you any type of advice, even for what to expect, as the days go on?
Or even to try some "nutrical paste"...or B12...to be able to absorb some more nutrients within her system?
Critical care A/D food? or even 'kitten foods' with higher calorie amounts.

 

[blumarine916]

Wow, my cats love those squeeze treats. They act like I'm giving them real tuna, and cannot believe that the packets are so small.

Maybe your cats just have different tastes, and don't trust things that come in packages.
Perhaps they only like real home made food, and don't buy into all that 'pre processed cat food treats'.

(Mine are also weird in that they love temptations, but when I tried a healthier 'pure bites freeze dried chicken treats,'...they acted like it was not even food. Took one sniff, and walked away. (I'm pretty sure my previous cats, and aunt's cat liked it, so why not mine...idk))

All our cats must have such unique tastes, just like us humans.

End stage I was giving them daily, but lowered the amount, depending on if my cat looked...like he was absorbing them slower.

(For me, though, my rainbow cat Spotty, had both ckd and HCM (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy)...so both heart and kidney issues. Because of his heart issues, then my young Vet, at the time, had said that too much fluid would be dangerous to his heart. It was terrible because the treatment for one:..being fluids for kidneys...would have the opposite effect on his heart...and then cause him to die. Heart issues, for him, were supposed to be less fluids, not more,...while kidney issues were supposed to be more. It was a tremendously difficult to treat situation.)

With your Meffy, because she has Azotemia...then I'm not sure what the protocol would be, to flush out the toxins.
Did your Vet give you any type of advice, even for what to expect, as the days go on?
Or even to try some "nutrical paste"...or B12...to be able to absorb some more nutrients within her system?
Critical care A/D food? or even 'kitten foods' with higher calorie amounts.

I teared up at work today when I thought about Meffy, her sad condition and how she wouldn’t eat. But I will keep trying. Today after work I was greeted by her and Meimey at the door. Meffy looked alert even meowed at me as she rubbed her face at the door. She’s looking a bit better. This is also the first time I see all the fluids absorbed and notice how thin she is. I mean, she’s already thin but not eating made her thinner.

So I opened the new can of soupy cat food, not Recovery AD but a cheaper brand called Rich&Co. At first Meffy ignored it but after Meimey was licking it, Meffy licked up the rest of the tablespoonful. I put a little more on a syringe to give it to her. Better some rather than nothing. She also sat with us to watch tv which is huge change from a few days ago. It seems like she was uncomfortable all this time due to so much fluid, at least I hope that’s the reason.

Should I be concerned if her skin doesn’t snap back immediately after pinched? It doesn’t stay up but it goes down slowly. Do you think it is better to give her 50ml 2x a day or 100ml once a day? No, I’m not going back the vet after she told me there’s nothing to be done. I believe the vets here have not done much research on CKD or aren’t specialists to handle CKD cases especially late stage like Meffy.

 

[cat nap]

I teared up at work today when I thought about Meffy, her sad condition and how she wouldn’t eat. But I will keep trying. Today after work I was greeted by her and Meimey at the door. Meffy looked alert even meowed at me as she rubbed her face at the door. She’s looking a bit better. This is also the first time I see all the fluids absorbed and notice how thin she is. I mean, she’s already thin but not eating made her thinner.

So I opened the new can of soupy cat food, not Recovery AD but a cheaper brand called Rich&Co. At first Meffy ignored it but after Meimey was licking it, Meffy licked up the rest of the tablespoonful. I put a little more on a syringe to give it to her. Better some rather than nothing. She also sat with us to watch tv which is huge change from a few days ago. It seems like she was uncomfortable all this time due to so much fluid, at least I hope that’s the reason.

Sure, it's going to be difficult at times, when the sadness hits you in little waves, wherever you are,...but Meffy is still here, which is a good thing.
The only reason it's good to try, is that then you'll not have any regrets, later on.
You've already done a lot,...so you should not have any regrets,...but by doing a little more, then I figure it will be easier,...when you have to say goodbye.

So cool, Meffy came and greeted you by the door.
(my cats don't do that, they just kind of show up in the kitchen eventually, when I'm putting stuff away, or else show up in the living room.)

And also good that Meffy decided to eat, when she saw that Meimey was eating.
Maybe it's like Meffy was saying, "hey, Meimey, try this stuff first, and tell me if it's good.", "okay, not bad", "thanks, I'll eat some now".

(my cats have their own plates, but they always want to check out what the other cat is eating. It's the exact same food, but oh well, maybe they 'think it's better'...or the 'presentation' looks better...like it's suddenly a 'new food')

Great, that she was watching tv with you guys.

Should I be concerned if her skin doesn’t snap back immediately after pinched? It doesn’t stay up but it goes down slowly. Do you think it is better to give her 50ml 2x a day or 100ml once a day? No, I’m not going back the vet after she told me there’s nothing to be done. I believe the vets here have not done much research on CKD or aren’t specialists to handle CKD cases especially late stage like Meffy.

Those are good questions, but I don't really know the answer.
With the 'skin hydration test'...I found I could also never tell how fast the skin was supposed to snap back.

And with the 'is it better to give twice per day, or only once? '...I've only ever given once per day...since I figure that it was easier to stick the cat once with the needle per day, and that the fluid would absorb slowly, anyhow.

But your question is good, since it makes me think about how comfortable would a cat be...if it got a smaller amount, but more times per day...versus a larger amount.
And how long would these different amounts take to being fully absorbed, too.

From reading various sites, you're supposed to make sure all the fluid is absorbed, before giving the next sub-q treatment, but it also said that sub-q's could take up to 5-8 hours to absorb, or more, I guess, depending on the cat.

I still think I would give the 100ml once per day,...but maybe you should try both ways...doing it the first way one day,...and then trying the alternate way...the next day...so that you could compare...in how your Meffy acts.
This way, you would know what would be better for your Meffy.
Plus, what is better for you, too, in the timing of 'when you are giving her the fluids'.

Here's a few more sites, that are rather interesting to read, when you have the time:
How to give subcutaneous fluids to your cat | International Cat Care
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Subcutaneous Fluids
Subcutaneous Fluid Administration in Cats

And this vet's site, has some specific and useful info, too.
Videos & Tutorials — I Will Help Your Cat
Videos & Tutorials — I Will Help Your Cat

 

[blumarine916]

Is it normal to see a LOT of urine when a cat is on SubQ? Ever since she started the treatment I go through a lot of litter due to how much Meffy is peeing.

As for eating, she has gain a bit of appetite but only wants fried chicken What should i do? I gave her the white parts but she went through the trash at night for the bones too.

 

[cat nap]

Is it normal to see a LOT of urine when a cat is on SubQ? Ever since she started the treatment I go through a lot of litter due to how much Meffy is peeing.

Yes, very normal.
Because the sub-q fluids are now doing the work of the non functioning parts of the damaged kidneys.
Keeping her hydrated and flushing toxins.

As for eating, she has gain a bit of appetite but only wants fried chicken What should i do? I gave her the white parts but she went through the trash at night for the bones too.

Wow. That's a good sign, if she has an appetite.
Try to cook with no salt.

At end stage, I would give her whatever she wants to eat, but if you could balance it with the balanced cat food, then I figure she'd still get her required nutrients.
Way to go, Meffy.

 

[blumarine916]

Meffy greeted me at the door again today and even wanted to sneak outside. Today I’m so relieved because she finally ate her usual cat food! she must’ve ate some kibble while I’m away too. I’m so happy for her. She’s also grooming her face and feet. This morning she also asked for water. I put the water in bowls, changed daily, but she would expect me to pour a fresh bowl for her to drink. She drank a little bit of that.

 

[cat nap]

Meffy greeted me at the door again today and even wanted to sneak outside. Today I’m so relieved because she finally ate her usual cat food! she must’ve ate some kibble while I’m away too. I’m so happy for her. She’s also grooming her face and feet. This morning she also asked for water. I put the water in bowls, changed daily, but she would expect me to pour a fresh bowl for her to drink. She drank a little bit of that.

Omg...I am so happy to hear this update.
Way to go Meffy, ...and way to go blumarine916 .
It calls for dancing bananas......and some more dancing, too.
Keep doing whatever you are doing.

(my cats, too, love fresh water,..so I have to change multiple bowls, daily,...and sometimes twice daily,....because for some odd reason my cats prefer to drink out of the dog's huge stainless steel water bowl, than they do out of their smaller bowls.
I think it might have to do with either the water being easier to lap up, in a larger, wider, bowl, (it's actually a stainless steel salad bowl), and their whiskers don't touch the sides, ... or else because there is more surface water, maybe it tastes a bit more fresher, on the surface, than their smaller bowls do. idk.)

blumarine916 ...would you be able to post a photo, of your Meimey, too.?
(whenever you have the time.)
I would love to see what she looks like.
I could always look back, at your Meffy's photo, but am just curious about your Meimey, too.

Thanks so much, for this update.
We just all have to celebrate the 'small joys' in this world.
(with the way the news is, and in different parts of the world, and stuff, and then having the journeys with sick animals,...it's just nice to have a little brightness in the day.)
Thank you Meffy, too.

 

[blumarine916]

Oh sure. They’re both Calicos so their colours are quite similar except

sorry I don’t know how to flip that image here.

*hugs* Yeah I know. Little joys is all I need to get through this. It’s so cute that your cats prefer drinking from the dog’s bowl. How many cats and dogs do you have?

 

[cat nap]

Oh sure. They’re both Calicos so their colours are quite similar except
View attachment 422619
sorry I don’t know how to flip that image here.

*hugs* Yeah I know. Little joys is all I need to get through this. It’s so cute that your cats prefer drinking from the dog’s bowl. How many cats and dogs do you have?

Lol. Okay.
I am going to be very difficult, today, and ask you to post again, but now put both their photos side by side,...and hopefully not flipped over...so that I have to 'flip myself to see them'. lol.
blumarine916 ...you're making me laugh, so much today.

(I have two black dsh cats, male and female, age 7yr, siblings...and a black retriever/lab mix dog, 10yrs old.
Obviously, I love the colour black in animals. )

Edit to add: Actually, no worries, I just downloaded both photos, and can flip them, and see them side by side.
It's late where you are, so get some good sleep.

 

[blumarine916]

Is it normal for CKD cats to still drink water even if we are giving SubQ once a day? I keep thinking was it because the SubQ is not enough.

Meimey threw up her food last night. She has a habit of eating too fast sometimes and running around immediately after eatinf. After throwing up, she came back for more, threw that up too. So I removed all the food last night. This morning, again regurgitating minutes after eating and coming back for seconds. This is beginning to worry me. I didn’t see anymore incidents before I left the house so I’m hoping she calmed down. She’s been so nervous/scared ever since Meffy was diagnosed and Meffy going back and forth to the vet. I wonder if this is stress triggered. Usually Meimey vomits 1-2 times a month. Last month was good, no incidents until Meffy got sick.