CKD diagnosis - what to expect

[blumarine916]

Oh, one more thing, since you are taking Meffy to the Vets, for her treatments...
ask them if it's okay to give your Meffy a vitamin B12 injection...since this is supposed to help with energy, absorption,...and also is supposed to make the colour of the urine become more orange-like.

This way you may notice...which of your cats is using the litterbox, more, ...due to the different colour of urine.
Not sure how much B12 is needed, and also...you can give these injections under the skin, ..at home, too.

Thanks for the tip. Her next test is on Sunday. I really hope it’s a positive result so only then I can discuss what other treatments is necessary to keep her comfortable.

 

[blumarine916]

Oh, one more thing, since you are taking Meffy to the Vets, for her treatments...
ask them if it's okay to give your Meffy a vitamin B12 injection...since this is supposed to help with energy, absorption,...and also is supposed to make the colour of the urine become more orange-like.

This way you may notice...which of your cats is using the litterbox, more, ...due to the different colour of urine.
Not sure how much B12 is needed, and also...you can give these injections under the skin, ..at home, too.


Edit to add:...Also buy some Hill's A/D critical care wet cat food for your Meffy, while a the Vets.
You can use this food, in small amounts, to entice Meffy to eat...and also use it to entice her to eat some of the other wet foods...you give her. She could also use this food, until she begins to eat the foods you find that are lower in phosphorus and salt, for her.

(I used it when I had to transition my previous ckd/hcm cat, spotty, because he did not initially like to eat the hills k/d wet food.
It did work, somewhat, except, that he also seemed to lose so much weight being on the hills k/d, but he was different than your Meffy, in that he was diagnosed when having dental extractions done, at age 14. With the ckd and hcm, he lived until 15.5 yrs...so the treatments can definitely slow down the ckd.)

Does your Meffy have any dental issues at all?

I’ll try to find this Hill AD food. It’s not easily available since it is only sold at vet clinics. Also I’m in Malaysia, not in the main city so resources are limited.

Hmm…I’m not sure about her dental issues but I’m guessing no since she’s never pawed at her mouth before. Her gums are also not red.

I’ll ask about the B12 shots

 

[cat nap]

’ll try to find this Hill AD food. It’s not easily available since it is only sold at vet clinics. Also I’m in Malaysia, not in the main city so resources are limited.

(Oh, okay, that's good to know, since I thought you were either in the States, or Britain, europe. I don't know why.)

Over there, in Malaysia, they may have other types of 'critical care foods'...from royal canin, or purina.

But yes, it's usually only sold at vet clinics, (here in canada, too.)
Plus online, but only with a prescription.

Hmm…I’m not sure about her dental issues but I’m guessing no since she’s never pawed at her mouth before. Her gums are also not red.

I’ll ask about the B12 shots

Sounds good.

(With my previous ckd cat, that is how we found out.
(my cat never pawed at his mouth, but I just noticed more drooling, than usual.)

He also did have 'mouth ulcers' near the end,...but it does not sound like your Meffy has those.
Your vets would have noticed that for sure.)

 

[blumarine916]

I was watching Meffy closely last night. After she ate, she only licked her mouth. She didn’t wash her face and head like she always did after food. She’s really not grooming herself. After licking her mouth, she just sat there. Although she was eating, she wasn’t drinking water.
Later on I saw she was about to yawn. Usually cat’s yawn really big but her mouth opened halfway and then she stopped, shut her mouth again.

What do you think is wrong? Nauseous? Or something wrong with her mouth?
She groomed herself until 3 days ago then stopped since day 3. She’s not pooping either. Last poop was on Thursday.

 

[cat nap]

I was watching Meffy closely last night. After she ate, she only licked her mouth. She didn’t wash her face and head like she always did after food. She’s really not grooming herself. After licking her mouth, she just sat there. Although she was eating, she wasn’t drinking water.
Later on I saw she was about to yawn. Usually cat’s yawn really big but her mouth opened halfway and then she stopped, shut her mouth again.

What do you think is wrong? Nauseous? Or something wrong with her mouth?
She groomed herself until 3 days ago then stopped since day 3. She’s not pooping either. Last poop was on Thursday.

Usually when cats are not feeling well, then they stop grooming.
I'm not sure if it's that their own saliva is not feeling right, or they are just tired, or else stop grooming until they feel better.

What's a little more concerning is the not pooping part.
(I forgot though, that you are 12 hours ahead of Eastern standard time,...so it's Saturday morning, there.)
Therefore Meffy has not pooped on friday, but she did on thursday,...and if she poops today, (your saturday)...then that should be okay.
Just keep an eye on it, and see if it's very soft, or hard.

How was it on thursday, if you remember? soft of hard? was the colour brown or more a light yellowish tan?
It also depends on the colour of the food she eats, too.

Is Meffy eating a good amount of food? Her usual...or less?
(If Meffy is eating, then no...she would not be nauseous.)

Raise her food plate, up about 4-6 inches, (10-15 cm) from the floor, on some books, wood, or box.
So that she does not have to bend down so much.

 

[blumarine916]

Just cleaned the litter box, lots of pee and yeah a small tiny poop. Firm texture but more to brown instead of the usual darker brown. The one before was also that brown colour. Is it bad?

I know the pee is hers because the other cat pees on the other end of the box.

Meffy didn’t want breakfast but she ate quite a bit for dinner last night. I managed to check her mouth too. Not swollen or any reddish mark that I could see.

 

[cat nap]

Just cleaned the litter box, lots of pee and yeah a small tiny poop. Firm texture but more to brown instead of the usual darker brown. The one before was also that brown colour. Is it bad?

I know the pee is hers because the other cat pees on the other end of the box.

Meffy didn’t want breakfast but she ate quite a bit for dinner last night. I managed to check her mouth too. Not swollen or any reddish mark that I could see.

That all sounds really good.
Brown is good.
It's probably tiny, only because she has not been eating as much.

But it sounds really good that she ate a good dinner.
Even if she didn't want breakfast, as long as she eats at other times, to make up for the total amounts...then that is still good.
And really good that you were able to see into her mouth and teeth, too.

 

[cat nap]

I was looking online, earlier, and looking for 'renal cat food in malaysia'...and I could not believe how much some of them cost.
Some foods are similar to prices we have here, but some were very high in cost.
Maybe it depends on the 'internet sites', too, and that some places are 'resellers'...just like 'amazon' is over here.
(3rd party resellers, they buy the food, or products,...and then sell it for more money.)

I hope you can find her a good low phosphorus food, with low salt, too.
But that it would also have a good amount of calories.
If not, then your Vet on sunday, could probably help you choose some good ones.

Main thing, though, is that Meffy is eating, and hopefully when you re-do the blood work, the results will be better.

 

[blumarine916]

I brought her for her morning fluids and when she came home she ate some boiled fish. I know fish isn’t good but better than nothing at all. I really don’t mind cooking for her if that’s only what she’ll eat.

cat nap Yeah most people would not spend on their cats with kidney problems because it cost so much. I’m not low income but I have my limits too. Pet healthcare is very expensive if pet has chronic diseases. Barely anyone I know ever heard of
cat kidney disease.

I’m getting bitten by fleas since yesterday. I don’t know if Meffy got it from the clinic although I saw they put flea control on her that day. But why are they biting me now? Is it because Meffy’s blood is toxic so they moved to her human instead? I have 6 already since yesterday.

 

[cat nap]

I brought her for her morning fluids and when she came home she ate some boiled fish. I know fish isn’t good but better than nothing at all. I really don’t mind cooking for her if that’s only what she’ll eat.

cat nap Yeah most people would not spend on their cats with kidney problems because it cost so much. I’m not low income but I have my limits too. Pet healthcare is very expensive if pet has chronic diseases. Barely anyone I know ever heard of
cat kidney disease.

I’m getting bitten by fleas since yesterday. I don’t know if Meffy got it from the clinic although I saw they put flea control on her that day. But why are they biting me now? Is it because Meffy’s blood is toxic so they moved to her human instead? I have 6 already since yesterday.

No, it's not because Meffy's blood is toxic, it's only because fleas are such opportunists that they will bite anyone with blood, to survive. Dogs, cats, humans, etc.
I hate, hate, hate, fleas. It's so difficult to get rid of all of them.

Here, we use a product called Revolution (selamectin), which is a spot on treatment, that we have to give to the dog, and two cats, on a monthly basis, during flea season...which can be anywhere from May to October.
Fleas love the warm and hot weather.

To get rid of them in your home, you have to wash everything in hot water and detergent, especially the cat beds, cat blankets, and even all the bedding you have. (If you cannot do too hot, due to shrinkage, then warm might work.)
They also sell 'area sprays' here, but these are usually toxic to animals, and you have to make sure that the animal stays out of the room for however number of hours the product says on the label.

Also vacuuming up everywhere, and throwing out the used vacuum bag, and using a bit of the 'store bought flea area spray' to spray into the bag.

(I remember that fleas are also attracted to 'white socks' for some reason, and you can usually find them crawling up the socks, if you walk in them.)

If you look online there are supposed to be 'natural products to get rid of fleas'...but many of them I have never tried.
...and would not know which ones are toxic to animals.
The only one I've ever used is called Dawn Blue Dish Soap.
It was for small kittens who had fleas, but the vet told me that I did not leave it on them for long enough, and that is why it did not work so well. I was afraid of having the kittens too cold, and also of them licking the dish soap.

One of the vets showed me the 'wet paper towel method of knowing if a cat still has fleas or flea dirt (flea excrement)'.
He combed out my kitten/cat, and placed any debris...onto a white paper towel.
Then he added a bit of water, and if it showed up with blood, or dirty black spots,...it would tell him that fleas were still active.

Do you have any kinds of these products, over there?
How to Choose the Safest Flea Treatment for Your Cat | PetMD

If you do a 'Search' in the upper right hand corner of the Cat Site, you get these threads:
Search Results for Query: get rid of fleas
There may be some ideas which can help.

Even a cat site article..though I'm not sure how effective the 'natural products' would be.
Homemade Flea Remedies For Cats – TheCatSite Articles
I would make sure to 'google' all the potential side-effects, or toxins involved in any so called 'natural products'...just to make sure they are safe to use around animals.

Do you have the Revolution, Advantage, or any other brands of monthly spot on flea treatments, over there?
The Dawn blue dish soap, or the 'area flea sprays'?
Getting a 'small flea comb' is also helpful, to make sure that Meffy does not have anymore, so that you can comb her out.
But honestly, what really works is the 'monthly flea spot on treatments' from the vets.

Just remember that whatever you put on Meffy, has to be safe,...since cats lick and groom themselves.

Maybe this is why your Meffy was also not grooming?
It depends on which product the Vets put on her, to keep the fleas away?
She might have tasted it, or it takes a while to get absorbed, into the skin and hair follicle layers.

 

[blumarine916]

Oh I sure know about the hassle of getting rid of fleas. It took me 4 months! That was 11 years ago when I first picked up Meffy from an alley. I had zero knowledge about having a cat but I wanted to keep her. She was full of fleas, my whole apartment was infested and we had flea bites every single day. There was like 6-7 new bites daily on our arms, legs and body. It was crazy. But thankfully after all that vigorous cleaning and monthly flea control (Frontline or Advantage), the fleas finally died. I was so traumatized by it lol Lost like 8kgs because of it.

Update: Just took Meffy for her 2nd dose of SubQ. This time I learned to poke her myself. It wasn’t hard but she may not sit so quiet at home. Came home, she only ate a little bit. I feel like she’s in a better mood today because she didn’t have to stay at the clinic. I’m not working until Monday. Also saw her cleaning a face so maybe she’s feeling a little better.

 

[cat nap]

Oh I sure know about the hassle of getting rid of fleas. It took me 4 months! That was 11 years ago when I first picked up Meffy from an alley. I had zero knowledge about having a cat but I wanted to keep her. She was full of fleas, my whole apartment was infested and we had flea bites every single day. There was like 6-7 new bites daily on our arms, legs and body. It was crazy. But thankfully after all that vigorous cleaning and monthly flea control (Frontline or Advantage), the fleas finally died. I was so traumatized by it lol Lost like 8kgs because of it.

Okay, yeah, so you know the hassles, and hate it just as much as I do.
(I kind of wish I could lose like 8kg, now, (since my doctor said I should)...but I kind of would never want to ever...go through a flea infestation...to lose the weight.
I think I just better eat more veggies, exercise, and drink more water. )

Update: Just took Meffy for her 2nd dose of SubQ. This time I learned to poke her myself. It wasn’t hard but she may not sit so quiet at home. Came home, she only ate a little bit. I feel like she’s in a better mood today because she didn’t have to stay at the clinic. I’m not working until Monday. Also saw her cleaning a face so maybe she’s feeling a little better.

Yay!! Excellent.
Excellent that you learned to give the sub-q yourself, and also excellent that Meffy might be feeling a little better.

Don't worry about doing the sub-q's at home.
I promise, that after you do them a few times, you will get your own Routine, ...and know when the best time to give them to Meffy will be.

Usually when she is sleepy and resting, and not wanting to move around so much.
She probably will not even notice you giving them to her, after a while, when you become better, with practice.
Plus, she will be tens times more comfortable at home, than in the clinic.

 

[cat nap]

Here's a really good video that I used before. It's older but it's good.
There are so many newer ones on youtube, also.



And of course my favorite 'go to person' of all time, for 'how to videos with cats'...is Fundamentally Feline.
Honestly, I think she is the best for explaining things in detailed ways.
She has so many helpful videos, that I cannot say which one is the best.

https://www.fundamentallyfeline.com/how-to-videos/

 

[cat nap]

This is the one of the many... from Fundamentally Feline:


And this one is another good one from youtube:
It's always good to watch more of them, because in each one, different 'tips' are given.



I also liked this older article, because it had photos:
Giving Your Cat IV Subcutaneous Fluids at Home (With Photos)

Don't worry about making some mistakes, or being slow, since we all were like that at first.
I remember accidentally forgetting to shut off the 'line' and the fluid went everywhere.
Also, I remember that I had to mark the bag, with a marker, or tape, and keep an eye on it, since it went faster at times.

Just try to do it when you are very Calm, and Focused, and don't be too nervous either.
Treat it like it's just a 'brushing the cat day'...and then it will get easier, the more times you do it.

You will probably surprise yourself, at how good you will become, and that it was not so difficult.

 

[blumarine916]

cat nap Thank you for so much encouragement and being so positive. You made me feel better when I’m dreading the worst.

I thought Meffy was feeling better. I don’t know what that means. Better compared to the first day, maybe, but I don’t know if she’ll ever be the same. She’s been sleeping a lot the entire week and only gets up to eat if she feels like it and then check around a little bit before resting again. I notice her purrs are also louder than usual, her breathing seems to be rather strong from how her belly moved. The vet checked with a stethoscope when I told her and said Meffy’s lungs were fine.

 

[cat nap]

cat nap Thank you for so much encouragement and being so positive. You made me feel better when I’m dreading the worst.

Sure, blumarine916 ...I know how difficult, exhausting, and worrisome it is, when our animals are sick.

It's like we all know that eventually, as they get older, some things will happen,...but of course, we don't want anything that is not treatable, in a fast manner, to happen.
Sadly, that is often not the case.

All we can do is the best, at the time,...and trust that the Vets we do choose, are capable, and have the training, knowledge, and experience to help our animals, too.

I thought Meffy was feeling better. I don’t know what that means. Better compared to the first day, maybe, but I don’t know if she’ll ever be the same. She’s been sleeping a lot the entire week and only gets up to eat if she feels like it and then check around a little bit before resting again. I notice her purrs are also louder than usual, her breathing seems to be rather strong from how her belly moved. The vet checked with a stethoscope when I told her and said Meffy’s lungs were fine.

(I remember the disbelief and shock I felt when fist hearing the news of my previous rainbow cat, Spotty, having first hcm and then ckd.
It's like my mind, at the time, didn't actually process it,...and I could not believe it,...since Spotty was just 13, and was still so active and weighed about 13lbs.)

With your Meffy, even though she may not be entirely the same,...and as healthy as before,...it's still better to know what you are dealing with,...then the 'not knowing' part.

At least this way, you still have options to try, and see how Meffy improves.

Hopefully, you will get better results on the next blood work, and then, like you mentioned before, your Vet can recommend even further treatments, or medications, supplements, to try.

Some of it will depend on the numbers, but don't get too stressed out about them, either,...since numbers are just a 'snapshot' of that day.
It also depends on what you see, in how your Meffy responds and acts.

Meffy might not be feeling her best, right now, because she is still in the middle of treatment, and her body needs time to Adjust, and reach a Balance, once again.
She needs the fluids to flush out the toxins, but also the nutrients to be absorbed and sustain her systems.

That is usually a slow process, until her body adjusts.

Since you are cooking for Meffy, is there anything in your country, like the Alnutrin, or the 'cat food meal completers' (premixes)...that you can add to home cooked meals, to make sure your cat gets all the required nutrients?
Basically you just want Meffy's diet to be complete and balanced.

 

[blumarine916]

My other cat Meimey has been very nervous since Meffy’s return from the vet last week. The first day she vomitted. Then she got really timid and ate less. She hides in her room to avoid Meffy. This week she calmed down a bit and has come out of her room. She took a sniff at Meffy then made a face, walked away.
Is this a normal behavior for other cats in your household towards a sick cat?

 

[cat nap]

My other cat Meimey has been very nervous since Meffy’s return from the vet last week. The first day she vomitted. Then she got really timid and ate less. She hides in her room to avoid Meffy. This week she calmed down a bit and has come out of her room. She took a sniff at Meffy then made a face, walked away.
Is this a normal behavior for other cats in your household towards a sick cat?

Yes, it actually can be normal behaviour for other cats, towards a sick cat,...or towards a cat that just came back from a regular vet clinic appointment...with smelling like the Vet clinic, and or vaccinations, medications, etc.

In the case of just a 'vet clinic appointment'...some cats get 'non-recognition aggression'...since the cat coming back, does not smell the same, and they think it's a 'stranger cat'.

With a 'sick cat'...since the cat will smell sick...then often times the 'healthy cat' will want to stay away.
It's probably just a survival instinct for the cat, and nothing personal.

(When Spotty was in 'end stage'...then only the female kitten would come up to him, and lay near him.
The male kitten did not want to be anywhere near him. I felt kind of sad, but understood it.)

Your Meimey is probably just very sensitive, and also very sensitive to smells, Scent.
Meimey might also be very scared of Vet clinics, or their smells, too.

How did the vet appointment go, with Meffy?
Do you get the blood results right away (in house), or do you have to wait for them to be sent out, and analyzed?

 

[blumarine916]

It wasn’t good. There was no improvement even after all my effort to taking her back and forth for the SubQs all week. The vet confirms it is end stage CKD and didn’t prescribe anything further She only said the SubQs will keep Meffy hydrated but that’s it. Meffy hasn’t eaten anything yesterday and still refuse food this morning.

Yeah Meimey is very timid. She won’t even let my bf touch her and we’ve been staying together for 6 years. She just totally avoids him and only comes to when he’s not around. Funny thing is, he was the one who brought her back from the street as a kitten lol. Probably because he wasn’t around much when she was a kitten so they never bonded like Meffy did.

 

[cat nap]

It wasn’t good. There was no improvement even after all my effort to taking her back and forth for the SubQs all week. The vet confirms it is end stage CKD and didn’t prescribe anything further She only said the SubQs will keep Meffy hydrated but that’s it. Meffy hasn’t eaten anything yesterday and still refuse food this morning.

Oh, no.
I am so sorry.
The numbers didn't improve at all?
That is just disheartening.

I really thought that you'd get another year, or two, depending on how much of the kidneys were functioning.
It just seemed to come on so suddenly, so I was hoping that it was some sort of infection, or something that could be maintained, with good quality of function left.

At this point, if the Vet is saying end stage CKD, then I would just feed your Meffy whatever she wants, or likes.
If it's cooked/boiled fish, or treats, snacks, whatever.

But don't give up right away, you never know.
Don't lose Hope, yet.
Vets can be wrong, and cats can surprise you.
Still do the sub-q's...and try to get her to eat, whatever she wants.

Maybe something on this thread, would offer some tips to try and get Meffy to eat:
Any Good Tips To Get Your Cats To Eat? Share Them Here!

Yeah Meimey is very timid. She won’t even let my bf touch her and we’ve been staying together for 6 years. She just totally avoids him and only comes to when he’s not around. Funny thing is, he was the one who brought her back from the street as a kitten lol. Probably because he wasn’t around much when she was a kitten so they never bonded like Meffy did.

Maybe your Meimey is also sensitive to sound, and the way a person talks, if your bf has a lower tone voice, or walks louder than you do.
That is funny, though, that he's the one who brought her home, from the street, and then she prefers the softer sounding female. lol.
Could also do with who feeds her, and the way you move,...and who she just bonded with more,...like you said.

It's so interesting, since I was going to ask you about Meffy, and being found in an alley.
Meffy is so beautiful, with all those colours.
Do a lot of the street kittens have these type of looks?
I guess there are all kinds of cats out there, but for some reason I just cannot picture Meffy being in some alley somewhere, and waiting for you to find her. That must have been special for both of you. Like it was meant to be.