Ckd - Almost Time To Say Goodbye

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KittyCatCove

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I just noticed that, twice now, you've used the term "whole milk"........exactly what is that?

(IF, by "whole milk".........you mean cow's milk, then you really should know that it can be a problem, because most cats are lactose intolerant. That's probably a recipe for, at least, an upset stomach. He may lap it up - that may give you some satisfaction - but, he shouldn't have it. A lactose-free cat milk, like KMR would be fine.)

The video I gave you demonstrates how to "place" the food slurry across the front of his tongue, not straight back into his mouth. [Most of the YT videos I've seen show the food being instilled straight on and into - inside - the mouth. That's forcing.....across the tongue is 'offering'.]

If the food is getting on you, then you're not following that example - most likely, you holding him between your legs and syringing it at him....and, of course, he will resist that to the max.

Also.........if that much food is winding up on you and on him...........you're putting too much in his mouth each time. JUST DROPLETS, only drops at a time will do (and then, wait a few moments so the cat can clear his mouth). Think of just how little water cats will take into their mouths when voluntarily drinking/lapping up............that's how much liquid they are accustomed to having in their mouths at a time. A ml is nothing for us.....it's a ton for a cat! A cat will probably have the sensation that he is drowning if/when larger quantities are forced into his mouth. We shouldn't wonder why they struggle so much!

I cautioned about the danger of his aspirating the liquid food..........

Instilling 'large' quantities of liquid food at a time greatly increases the risk of aspiration.

Cats are particularly susceptible to developing a very serious, and often fatal, form of pneumonia, "aspiration pneumonia", should they 'choke' and breathe in foreign material. For a cat who's already compromised, this can seal his fate.

The devil is in the details in all this.

Now, take a look at that video from post #9.......while that cat isn't happy, assess for yourself whether/not what's shown there is easier for both the cat and the person feeding. Notice that there's far less resistance from that cat at the end of the feeding than there was initially.

[you may still have to have him between your legs to 'contain' him, but having the food presented from the side versus straight on should 'ease' the overall experience)

I know I've been very explicit and directive. As I wrote, the detail of the technique will make all the difference. And, I write from many months of personal experience.

You write about how difficult this is turning out to be....it IS difficult. It's physically exhausting. It's emotionally draining. It's sleepless nights. It's interrupted sleep. It's waking up terror-struck. It's crying. It's pleading.

Anything we can do to lessen the burden will make it a tad easier.

Keep posting. Post what is happening. Post your feelings. You'll get support, suggestions and more. Hopefully people with actual experience will be the ones to reply.

There are lots of us who have been where you two are today!

Now...........have you posted a picture (or more:lol:) of Bud recently? If not.........time to pay up:flail:
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I appreciate your input here, but not sure about your tone. Directive is fine, but a little too brash IMO. There is no need for that. You're obviously an expert in regards to CKD, I'm not.

It's lactose free whole fat milk. It's it the only thing he will eat on his own both my vets said it was perfectly fine to give it to him.

I have never given a cat syringe feedings in my life until last night. I'm very aware of the aspiration risks. I'm only giving him about 1 ml at a time and slowly waiting for him to swallow it before giving more.

I've spent many days and many hours a day reading about CKD and how to treat it. It's trial by fire, but learning more everyday.
 
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KittyCatCove

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What are his kidney values? my boy has CKD also and has episodes but my vet was able to determine it was pancreatitis that was causing him issues. There is a very accurate test for this now it is called Spec fPL test.
Most are very high. Some are off the chart. That's why the first vet I saw suggested euthanasia above all else. The second vet is more optimistic and told me she would never give up on any animal (no matter how serious the condition) until the very last option is exhausted... I like that.
 
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KittyCatCove

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You can also try baby food meats (no onions, garlic, etc.) and see if he would eat that. Or, perhaps smashed up chicken from a can of chicken packed in water? Even canned tuna in water as a 'starter' if he will eat it. Cottage cheese?
I tried all the baby food meats, canned tuna and canned chicken, but he would not eat them. He does eat cottage cheese, but only the cream, not the curds.
 
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KittyCatCove

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Can you try some other food other than cold cuts? it could be causing issues, also if you are giving him milk please make sure it is goats milk. Cow milk can make cats sick. Have you tried boiled chicken liver? or chicken thighs or sardines or salmon? I pray that you get to spend a lot more time with you handsome boy.
It's lactose free milk. .. vet said it was fine for right now. I tried the chicken liver, no go.. same for canned salmon. Going to store today to pick up sardines and fresh salmon. Thanks!
 

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He does eat cottage cheese, but only the cream, not the curds.
Do you smash the curds up? At first Feeby would only lick up the cream, until I smashed the hell out of the curds into a slurry. For some reason, she will only eat low fat cottage cheese, doesn't like the 4%!?!?
 

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Most are very high. Some are off the chart. That's why the first vet I saw suggested euthanasia above all else. The second vet is more optimistic and told me she would never give up on any animal (no matter how serious the condition) until the very last option is exhausted... I like that.
Thank goodness you got a second opinion. I have been to many vets before I found one I trusted. If you can do the Spec Fpl test for pancreatitis I would highly recommend it. I am glad that you are not giving up on your boy. I hope you can get him feeling better.
 
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Do you smash the curds up? At first Feeby would only lick up the cream, until I smashed the hell out of the curds into a slurry. For some reason, she will only eat low fat cottage cheese, doesn't like the 4%!?!?
Hey, that's an idea I didn't think of yet. 4% cottage cheese in my Magic Bullet mixer... will try that tonight. He only likes the full fat and it has to be "Penn Maid" (distributed in the Northeast only) brand, nothing else. Thanks Feebysowner!
 
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If you need a little extra liquid to get it to "slurry" properly, try Pedialyte. Can't hurt a thing!
Another great idea, thank you!

So, another vet visit yesterday... more fluids and Cerenia. Now I will be giving my boy sub-q fluids at home. The vet tech spent a decent amount of time with me showing me everything about the procedure. Like you guys have said, thank god I got that 2nd opinion. This vet clinic is so much more caring, companionate and sympathetic. I need all the support I can get now.

After his post-vet afternoon nap yesterday, he really perked up. The fluids really help. Last night I heard some odd noises at 1am, so I got up to check on him, turns out he was down the basement chasing/playing with a cricket! It makes me feel great when I see him doing things like this and acting somewhat normal. Seeing him drink his water, milk and pureed cottage cheese makes be feel so much better, even if it is for a little while.

Taking all this day by day. I'm cherishing all the time I spend with him. He's my main priority above all other things. The tears still flow several times a day. It's very difficult.
 
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I just gave him fluids for the first time. I warmed up the bag in a bucket of warm water so it's not as shocking. I hung the bag on a nail on the wall so it was about 6ft off the ground. He was napping and I simply stuck the needle in. He let out a very small meow when I did it. Only took about 3 minutes. Super easy. He didn't even move. After I was done he got up to get a drink. He's back to sleep now.

His nose sounds a little stuffy. Vet asked me to call her tomorrow morning with an update.
 

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My heart goes out to you, I've been experiencing similar things with my cat Neil who has CKD, likely lymphoma, and at this stage is most likely at the last stage of his life. We were getting treatment at one vet and he kept telling us that it was just allergies and the CKD was too early to be an issue. I didn't feel this was consistent with our boy's symptoms so I took him to another vet and thankfully we started the process of getting him additional treatment. He unfortunately had kidney failure and we've been swinging back and forth from doing okay to not ever since. In fact, on Monday we scheduled an appointment with the vet to say our final goodbyes due to his lack of eating anything for two days, problems keeping himself clean, and increased hiding/lethargy. But a few hours before the appointment, he ate a whole can and asked to go outside, so we took him just to make sure he wasn't in any pain we didn't detect and decided to give him more time. Its exhausting and I can feel the effects on myself, but I got to watch him sleep outside yesterday and that felt worthwhile. He doesn't seem to be eating much today, so maybe it will be a bad day but I'm having to learn that good days aren't as good as I would hope but as long as he's not in pain we're okay. Some things that have helped us:

1) We got a camera that we can watch via our phones, this relives that sense that I need to be in his room/watching him at all times. Reduces my anxiety a bit and I can monitor eating/peeing/water easier
2) He will eat A/D skin care mackerel in broth, mostly he laps up the broth but he then will start eating the mackerel. We just keep putting more water in the bowel and he keeps lapping it up and eventually will eat most of it. Once he eats some of this it seems to start a reaction and he'll nibble on the other food we put out.
3) We reheat food for about 15 seconds and this seems to get his attention. We'll do this every few hours
4) We give him a variety of food, does result in some waste, but it seems to help. its like he gets tired of one food after a day or so and wants a different flavor. who knows, but we get more eating if there are more options.
 
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KittyCatCove

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My heart goes out to you, I've been experiencing similar things with my cat Neil who has CKD, likely lymphoma, and at this stage is most likely at the last stage of his life. We were getting treatment at one vet and he kept telling us that it was just allergies and the CKD was too early to be an issue. I didn't feel this was consistent with our boy's symptoms so I took him to another vet and thankfully we started the process of getting him additional treatment. He unfortunately had kidney failure and we've been swinging back and forth from doing okay to not ever since. In fact, on Monday we scheduled an appointment with the vet to say our final goodbyes due to his lack of eating anything for two days, problems keeping himself clean, and increased hiding/lethargy. But a few hours before the appointment, he ate a whole can and asked to go outside, so we took him just to make sure he wasn't in any pain we didn't detect and decided to give him more time. Its exhausting and I can feel the effects on myself, but I got to watch him sleep outside yesterday and that felt worthwhile. He doesn't seem to be eating much today, so maybe it will be a bad day but I'm having to learn that good days aren't as good as I would hope but as long as he's not in pain we're okay. Some things that have helped us:

1) We got a camera that we can watch via our phones, this relives that sense that I need to be in his room/watching him at all times. Reduces my anxiety a bit and I can monitor eating/peeing/water easier
2) He will eat A/D skin care mackerel in broth, mostly he laps up the broth but he then will start eating the mackerel. We just keep putting more water in the bowel and he keeps lapping it up and eventually will eat most of it. Once he eats some of this it seems to start a reaction and he'll nibble on the other food we put out.
3) We reheat food for about 15 seconds and this seems to get his attention. We'll do this every few hours
4) We give him a variety of food, does result in some waste, but it seems to help. its like he gets tired of one food after a day or so and wants a different flavor. who knows, but we get more eating if there are more options.
I'm very sorry for you and your boy. At this stage give him anything he will eat. Please try EVERYTHING before giving up... lord know that's what I've done.

Last night and this morning my boy stopped eating his milk and cottage cheese. So this morning I ran to the store and bought Hagen-Daz plain vanilla ice cream... he ate it! He actually started cleaning himself again after he ate the ice cream, which made me very happy.

At this point calories are better than no calories. I'm not worried about the sugar or phosphate content of foods at this stage. Just try to make him eat and make him happy.

Hopefully other CKD cat owners will see this thread and it will give them some more things to try and more days with their beloved cats.

Good luck to you and your boy!
 
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KittyCatCove

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I agree nutrition is foremost and you are doing a great job of providing that for your baby.
Thanks! I just hope he would eventually eat something a little bit better than ice cream, but the calories are what he needs the most. I noticed he as a lot more energy today than past days because of that ice cream. I estimate he took in about 150 cals in today... not bad.

Also, the fluids are easiest to administer while he is taking a nap and/or sleepy. I've rigged hooks for the bag over all his favorite napping spots. He makes a little "beep" noise when the needle goes in, but he doesn't move at all and I make sure to pet/praise him as the fluid is coming in. I always warm the bag up and the procedure only takes about 3-4 minutes for 100mls.
 

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Fluids are what kept my boy going for 3 years after diagnosis. After about 4 days or so of fluids after a crash, he would start eating more and more on his own. After a good week or so, he would eat well, but we still had to encourage him with may different foods. We kept several different flavors of wet cat food (7) and 3 different dry foods, on hand to rotate thru. Continuously changing up the flavors kinda tricks them into eating better because they associate their feeling sick to their food. If you offer up something different every meal, then if they felt nauseous after their last meal, they won't think to refuse this meal because it smells different.
I'm SO GLAD the the fluids work so well for you. It's a scary thing to do, but a cooperative kitty certainly makes it easier.
Sometimes my boy would let a little squeak out when I inserted the needle. And It was usually if I went to slow or the needle wasn't at the right angle. So just in case, keep an eye on your technique. Although...your kitty might just like to make you feel bad, they do that sometimes!:rolleyes3: :lol:
Again, so happy for you and your kitty!
 
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Fluids are what kept my boy going for 3 years after diagnosis. After about 4 days or so of fluids after a crash, he would start eating more and more on his own. After a good week or so, he would eat well, but we still had to encourage him with may different foods. We kept several different flavors of wet cat food (7) and 3 different dry foods, on hand to rotate thru. Continuously changing up the flavors kinda tricks them into eating better because they associate their feeling sick to their food. If you offer up something different every meal, then if they felt nauseous after their last meal, they won't think to refuse this meal because it smells different.
I'm SO GLAD the the fluids work so well for you. It's a scary thing to do, but a cooperative kitty certainly makes it easier.
Sometimes my boy would let a little squeak out when I inserted the needle. And It was usually if I went to slow or the needle wasn't at the right angle. So just in case, keep an eye on your technique. Although...your kitty might just like to make you feel bad, they do that sometimes!:rolleyes3: :lol:
Again, so happy for you and your kitty!
Thank you Jem!

I would love nothing more than to see him come back and start eating on his own... especially his cat food! Right now he's only eating vanilla ice cream and milk (sparsely at that) and tonight he had some of my spaghetti (with a little sauce and cheese) after I was finished it. He licked the bowl clean! :lol: I know some here will poo-poo that, but I'm desperate to get any calories into him at this point.

Fluids time. This is the first night I am injecting Cerenia into his fluid tube. My vet was kind/understanding enough to give me some pre-loaded syringes today instead of having to drag him back there, which is just more stress my boy doesn't need.
 
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Did your vet give him any fluids under the skin?

I asked because I too had a Siamese Himmi who was going through the same thing, his kidney levels were off the chart, but the fluids under the skin seemed to perk him up and get his appetite going.
 
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Did your vet give him any fluids under the skin?

I asked because I too had a Siamese Himmi who was going through the same thing, his kidney levels were off the chart, but the fluids under the skin seemed to perk him up and get his appetite going.
Yes he did, they're called subcutaneous fluids which provide hydration and electrolytes. I am now administering them at home, with vets permission. 3rd time tonight, but 1st time injecting the Cerenin. The Cerenin must've stung a little bit because he started growling and tried to get away from me after I injected it into the fluids port. I also think I injected the Cerenin too soon. Next time I'll wait until most of the 100mls is in, then inject the Cerenin.
 

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The Cerenin must've stung a little bit because he started growling and tried to get away from me after I injected it into the fluids port.
Yes the Cerenia does sting. My Binx is the most laid back cat ever, but he hissed when the vet gave him a shot of Cerenia. The vet said that it can sting quite a bit. I was SHOCKED because it was actually the first time we ever heard him hiss.
 
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