Cat makes huge deep meow

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ducman69

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

If the amputation is done improperly you also get regrown bone and claw, sometimes out through the toe pad. Other vets botch it entirely and you end up with a cat that always has painful feet - which can give rise to some negative behaviors.
Absolutely, which is why any surgery should NOT be taken lightly. Google "botched spay surgery" and you will find groups that are very opposed to this mutilation for this reason as well. Personally, I find that while there IS risk, the actual complication rate is very low, and the reward outweighs it on the pros/cons. That is my opinion though, and I do respect people that simply do not wish to molest ANY part of a cat's natural anatomy, as long as they are willing to deal with the repurcussions for the life of the kitty.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

There are no negative behaviors associated with spay or neutering itself
There are very obvious behavioral changes observed in the animal. They are beneficial ones from my standpoint, which is why I would not want an intact feline. My coworker's cats that I had mentioned, which I almost adopted myself since he has too many (seven), still "scratch" and behave as would any cat, and no, I cannot see any difference in gate nor agility (if there are youtube videos demonstrating the difference I'd be happy to add that into the cons list in my recommendation to others). It is unnecessary elective surgery though, risky for the cat were it ever to escape (Wesley already has TWICE now, the little adventurer monkey hehehe), and just isn't needed as my munchkins are well behaved (mostly).
 

amandelx

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Female cats in heat (Ive had several) often make a deep "yeowl" sort of sound, I wouldnt be suprised if he was trying to call out for a mate. If he has a habbit of going to a specific room to make the same noise its probably a scent in that room. You could try spraying an odor neutralizer around the room to cover up whatever he may be picking up but neutering is in my opinion the best route. If the vet gives him a clean bill of health I wouldnt worry too much about it unless its really annoying to you.
 

nekochan

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If you have two males and one is calling for females, they may BOTH start to spray soon. When one male cats sprays, it's almost inevitable that other unneutered males in the household will too. There's a good chance they may start to fight as well as the younger one matures.
 

missymotus

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

BTW, not sure if you got what I was saying, but a vasectomy is routine for breeders so a male cat can service a female in heat without producing a litter. It is less invasive surgery, and achieves the same population control.
Except the boys are still housed as entire males, they have the same yodelling for females, spay etc. just like entires only they can't get the girls pregnant.
 

bunchie62

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Originally Posted by farleyv

Your cat needs to be neutered. He is suffering this way. A cat is a cat. He does not know you are "depriving" him of anything.

A responsible pet owner has their animal spayed and neutered. A much happier, healthier animal is the result.

Not to mention urine marking. Any responsible vet will agree with this.
Not to mention that spay/neuter minimizes other potential health problems as well. How about unchecked breeding and over population as one more concern? Cats don't have the ability to overcome instinctual behaviors--breeding being one of them.
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by Bunchie62

Not to mention that spay/neuter minimizes other potential health problems as well.
Please provide a scientific study that shows that there is ANY health benefit to the cat.

Yes, if you remove an organ, it cannot become cancerous... because it doesn't exist. But there is no logical reason to amputate at infancy before there is even the slightest sign of cancer, no explanation as to why other treatments couldn't be tried in the rare event, nor statistics that show whether more cats die from testicular cancer (likely very low) than from botched spay/neuter or anesthesia complications.

In humans, where we have invested millions in the study of hormones, without Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), typical symptoms (similar to those experienced by menopausal women) include hot flashes; gradual bone-density loss, resulting in osteopenia or osteoporosis; potential weight gain or redistribution of body fat to the hips/chest. Beef cattle are also castrated as they put on fat faster than intact males. So there is evidence that if anything there may be mild health issues.

Mules are also universally castrated even though they are inherently infertile, as otherwise they are more prone to aggression and less inclined to cooperate.

Lets be realistic, neutering/spaying is done because it addresses the big problem with cat overpopulation and because without the majority of tomcats would not make good family members for most homes, and thus would likely end up euthenized.
 

carolina

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I bet he is going to say it is fantasy, probably a creation of our wild imagination
 

sherry526

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The original poster has been quiet throughout our discussion, and hasn't posted since the first page or so of this thread.

Mumoftwo(original poster), I hope you are still reading and do seriously consider fixing your cats. Most of the rest of us jumped all over this issue, and hopefully you've read our posts and now understand the importance of spaying and neutering. Please don't get defensive and refuse to consider what we're saying just because you may feel we jumped on you.

If you have read what we said, and if you have done your own research on this subject, you will quickly see that the various reasons to spay and neuter are compelling ones. Please don't "shut down" because of your own personal feelings about how we've admonished you, and please don't refuse to spay/neuter because of your personal feelings about God and religion.

Be selfless enough to set aside your human emotion and reaction to our posts and what you think God thinks about your cat's sex parts, and think about what is best for your cat's health and well being, and the responsibility that comes with having cats in a world of strays and overpopulation.

Don't let your cat suffer the consequences of you ignoring the cold hard facts, even if it goes against your religious grain, or that you're mad at us for telling you what you don't want to hear. Please google it on your own. It's not just the few of us here in the thread saying these things.

Be mature enough to recognize the need to change your practice of not spaying/neutering DESPITE how you personally feel about the procedure, and be PROUD that you are intelligent and open minded enough to make these changes because you now have new information. Your personal pride will be your ability to change in light of new information--not in the rigidity of keeping a position/practice that is contrary to the new information (new info-meaning if you weren't aware of these things).

Even if you haven't posted, I do hope you are still reading, with an open mind.
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I'm going to guess you've never heard of pyometra...
And I'm guessing you've never heard of conjunctivitis. Logically, if we remove a kittens eyes, this threat is eliminated.... see where I'm coming from here?

And you haven't demonstrated any study that shows what that risk is or why the spay for example couldn't be performed in the rare event there is a medical need for it.

Again, I am for spay/neutering for all the other reasons, but I feel that many try to make everything black and white and don't realize that almost EVERYTHING is a shade of gray and a choice between lesser evils that are somewhat subjective depending on personal beliefs.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

And you haven't demonstrated any study that shows what that risk is or why the spay for example couldn't be performed in the rare event there is a medical need for it.
I am sorry, but if you take any time to look into it it, you will see that pyometra is not so rare; it is actually more common than you probably think, and easily preventable by early spaying. It can also easily kill a cat in a matter of 48 hours. You keep saying to show articles, but a simple google search will show plenty. If you were here at TCS long enough, you would have heartbreaks of seeing members nearly losing or actually losing their cats to it. Not pleasant at all.
Sometimes a spay can be just too late for it...
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by Carolina

I am sorry, but if you take any time to look into it it, you will see that pyometra is not so rare
Since you obviously have, how many cats are treated annually in the United States for this condition?
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

Since you obviously have, how many cats are treated annually in the United States for this condition?
I obviously can't give you this answer. You should know better when asking questions like this...
There are simply not enough studies done on cats in the US, unfortunately - not only on pyometra, but on many many cat diseases, unless they affect humans, such as rabies...
But to illustrate how this condition is not that rare, I can give you several cases that happened right here at TCS... You can even go ahead and ask some of these Members what they think about this disease and how rare they think it really was when it knock on their doors and threatened their kitties! One member even had TWO kitties with pyometra over the years - TWO - how is that for statistics for you?

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=49

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=16

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=10

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...76&postcount=7

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=35

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=10

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=13

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=10
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

And I'm guessing you've never heard of conjunctivitis. Logically, if we remove a kittens eyes, this threat is eliminated.... see where I'm coming from here?
That makes absolutely no sense. Are you just saying anything now to for the sake of arguing?

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Again, I am for spay/neutering for all the other reasons, but I feel that many try to make everything black and white and don't realize that almost EVERYTHING is a shade of gray and a choice between lesser evils that are somewhat subjective depending on personal beliefs.
There's no shade of grey... These are cats, they have no personal beliefs. Humans that use theirs as an excuse not to provide vet care are doing just that. Making excuses.

Your attempt to play devil's advocate only works if you can use logic. I'm not sure if you ever were in any of your post in this thread - but again, now you're just posting for the sake of arguing and attention.

I suggest that no one else replies to this thread or if a mod can be bothered, close it. The OP isn't going to come back since it derailed back there at declawing. If Ducman wants to argue maybe it would be best to let them get their post count up and take it to IMO where this sort of thing belongs.
 

otto

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Originally Posted by Carolina

I bet he is going to say it is fantasy, probably a creation of our wild imagination


Clearly someone in this thread likes to argue for the fun of arguing. The arguments are specious.

Imagine comparing eye removal to a feline spay. It makes no sense.
 

otto

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I suggest that no one else replies to this thread or if a mod can be bothered, close it. The OP isn't going to come back since it derailed back there at declawing. If Ducman wants to argue maybe it would be best to let them get their post count up and take it to IMO where this sort of thing belongs.
You beat me to it. I'm done.
 

nekochan

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I wouldn't compare it to removing an eye! It's more akin to doing a preventive gastropexy for dogs. Some dog breeds are prone to bloat and gastric torsion which is very dangerous. So they tack the stomach in place preemptively so that if the dog bloats the stomach cannot twist (they usually do it while the dog is under anesthesia for another reason, such as s/n.) Sure, that particular dog may never bloat, but it is such a dangerous condition that it is better to tack the stomach just in case. If you have to do emergency surgery for gastric torsion the prognosis is often poor, unless the condition is caught almost immediately-- it can become life-threatening within an hour. My dog had that happen to her at 11 years old and she was very lucky that I recognized the signs and rushed her to the vet.

Originally Posted by Ducman69

And you haven't demonstrated any study that shows what that risk is or why the spay for example couldn't be performed in the rare event there is a medical need for it.
Pyometra can also become life-threatening very quickly, is often not recognized right away and surgery may not be able to be done quickly enough to save the animal. While the spay can be performed in the event that they have developed pyometra, it might already be too late. The uterus can rupture, the infection can spread, and if they're in bad shape performing the surgery can kill them.
 

wellingtoncats

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Originally Posted by Carolina

I am sorry, but if you take any time to look into it it, you will see that pyometra is not so rare; it is actually more common than you probably think, and easily preventable by early spaying. It can also easily kill a cat in a matter of 48 hours. You keep saying to show articles, but a simple google search will show plenty. If you were here at TCS long enough, you would have heartbreaks of seeing members nearly losing or actually losing their cats to it. Not pleasant at all.
Sometimes a spay can be just too late for it...
My Nana had a breeding cat die from pyometra just a few weeks ago, and my friend had one die last year - both from closed pyometra. It is deadly and definitely not rare.
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

That makes absolutely no sense. Are you just saying anything now to for the sake of arguing? I suggest that no one else replies to this thread or if a mod can be bothered, close it.
What I was hoping to do was point out the hypocrisy of some people's arguments and the lack of an open mind when it comes to these matters. Its almost like a politics or abortion debate, rational objectivity is thrown out the window.


A few can become dogmatic and religious in their crusading, and become angry and bitter rather than just accepting that some things are morally subjective with pros and cons in any decision process. I am for spay/neuter and anti-declaw, but people that act like it is not just a matter of weighing pros and cons in either scenario are disingenuous. Here's a wiki on the long list of cons on neutering for example (and of COURSE there are pros or I wouldn't promote it): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutering

In any case, I have nothing further to add that hasn't been said, so you can take your ball and go home if that makes you happy. At the very least, good information was shared and friendly debate is always healthy.
 

katkisses

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This thread seems to be going in circles
but I do have some things to add that have not been said.



I too believe that animals should be respected as much as (maybe more than) humans. We all understand where you are coming from too. Animals do not miss their parts though. Lock a human man up and don't let him "mate" for the rest of his life. Then ask him "do you have a quality life?" Cat's cant tell you, they can't voice their opinions. This cat is miserable. The deep low growl? I've heard it, it sounds like they are dying. He is in agony, he wants a female NOW. That is all the little fellow can think about: "I must mate, I must mate, I must mate, I MUST MATE!!!" It's like making a man take Viagra & be celibate his whole life, it's kinda cruel in my opinion.

It is engrained in every animal to mate, it is the whole purpose of their life... to reproduce. But for pets this is a problem, there is a massive number of homeless pets. Many will be pts just because there are no homes for them. God told us to take care of his animals, he gave us the knowledge of science & medicine so that we could learn how to take care of ourselves & our animals. Animals are in alleys starving to death, do you think God would just sit on his hands and let this be? No, he gave us knowledge so that vets could neuter & spay the animals. It is in the Bible, we are supposed to take care of the animals. They can't make rational decisions for themselves.

I hope you read everyone's opinions here, I know we can come off kinda rough but you have to understand where we are coming from. Many of us rescue. That sounds all nice & comfy, but rescue is dirty work. Dead, dying, diseased, homeless, abused animals are all around us and it is very overwhelming. There are so many threads on here with people who feel guilty about getting their cat altered, when to us the answer seems obvious. I am sorry if I come off as rude, that is not my intentions at all.

If you still have your heart set on keeping him whole, please never let him go outdoors. He will find a female. The world does not need more kittens.












Originally Posted by Ducman69

And I'm guessing you've never heard of conjunctivitis. Logically, if we remove a kittens eyes, this threat is eliminated.... see where I'm coming from here?

And you haven't demonstrated any study that shows what that risk is or why the spay for example couldn't be performed in the rare event there is a medical need for it.

Again, I am for spay/neutering for all the other reasons, but I feel that many try to make everything black and white and don't realize that almost EVERYTHING is a shade of gray and a choice between lesser evils that are somewhat subjective depending on personal beliefs.
I am not exactly sure why you are posting this stuff... This isn't the first thread either, there is no need to prove everyone wrong and if you want studies on something then you can look them up for yourself. I get some of what you are saying, but most of it is kinda out there... Are you a (future) vet student by any chance?
 
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