Cat Has Crystals + Diabetes

[nick8]

Hi everyone

The vet put my cat on RC urinary SO for crystals last year.
The crystals are gone but now he has diabetes (most likely due to prednisolone for asthma).

The vet says he has to stay on SO food otherwise crystals will come back. But I feel SO may have been a contributor in him getting diabetes as it is high in carbs.

I want to put him on a low/no carb food which would be good for both diabetes and crystals.

Would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks

 

[tabbytom]

I want to put him on a low/no carb food which would be good for both diabetes and crystals.

Please switch him over to wet food as wet food are meat and protein based and they help keep your cat hydrated and also help with crystal issues. In addition, you can add a little more filtered water to the wet food to make sure your kitty have enough water intake.

Wet food helps maintain weight and is not carbohydrates like dry food and also if your kitty have diabetes, after taking the diabetes medication (if he's on medication), wet food will help control if not eradicate diabetes.

 

[LTS3]

Steroid use can induce diabetes in some cats. Stopping the steroid use (slowly, not cold turkey) will reverse the diabetes. It's a good idea to have a fructosamine test done a couple of weeks after the end of steroids to determine if the cat is still diabetic or not.

The SO food didn't help matters. It's high carb which puts a strain on the pancreas.

You can feed a canned food only diet for both the urinary issues and diabetes. Low carb is best, that is, under 10% carbs. Use this chart: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Any brand will work as long as your cat will eat it and you can afford it and can easily find it at local stores or can order online.

 

[nick8]

Thanks. I have him on Blue chicken+turkey pate canned food other than the SO.
He has not eaten in the last 20 or so hours and he is losing weight. The spine is becoming visible. I am guessing this is due to diabetes. He has not been started on any diabetes meds or insulin yet.

 

[She's a witch]

Have you considered using fluticasone inhaler to treat your cat's asthma rather than prendisolone?

 

[LTS3]

I wouldn't start insulin just yet. Get the cat eating again first. You may need to use appetite stimulants. Ask the vet about using Flovent for the asthma instead of pred. Start the low carb canned food diet. Do a fructosamine test a couple of weeks after the end of the pred use to determine if the cat is still diabetic or not.

 

[nick8]

Yes I was actually mostly using flovent as I knew the affects of pred. I gave him pred only when asthma attacks got bad. Which I didn't know why even though I was giving him flovent almost regularly. I would miss sometimes but mostly at least once a day.

 

[She's a witch]

Yes I was actually mostly using flovent as I knew the affects of pred. I gave him pred only when asthma attacks got bad. Which I didn't know why even though I was giving him flovent almost regularly. I would miss sometimes but mostly at least once a day.

In my cat's case, the inhaler works only if given every 12h (well, +/-1h because, well, life). Otherwise her attacks are back. So your cat's case may be the same, try giving it every 12h and notice the difference.

 

[Athenaglaukopis]

Hi everyone

The vet put my cat on RC urinary SO for crystals last year.
The crystals are gone but now he has diabetes (most likely due to prednisolone for asthma).

The vet says he has to stay on SO food otherwise crystals will come back. But I feel SO may have been a contributor in him getting diabetes as it is high in carbs.

I want to put him on a low/no carb food which would be good for both diabetes and crystals.

Would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks

Hi there, blue canned food is too high on carbs. Plz consider fancy feast pate.
Also check out the feline diabetes board. It’s another group for ppl w diabetic cats.
Unfortunately many vets don’t know about diet and the powerful impact it can have on diabetic cats. My kitty was at 600 blood glucose when diagnosed, after starting her new diet of fancy feast pate , no dry food whatsoever I noticed she was more active, drinker less water, and peed way less. By the time we started prozinc insulin she was on her way to remission.
Folks in the feline diabetes site Feline Diabetes —Diabetes in Cats — Treatment and Diabetic Cat Info — FDMB wilol help you tons navigate the right way the diabetes of your cat.
My vet told me she had never seen a cat go into remission so fast. The vet had prescribed weight management science diet dry food which is super high on carbs to a diabetic cat, would I had followed her instruction, fluffy would be gone or she’d still be on insulin.

 

[LTS3]

Hi there, blue canned food is too high on carbs..

Not the Blue chicken and turkey pate. That's 8% carbs which is suitable for diabetics. Any canned foods under 10% carbs is ok.

Flovent should be given twice a day or per the vet's instructions. Set reminders on your smart phone if you have one. I wouldn't give pred on an as needed basis since that can kind of mess up the body.

 

[nick8]

Just a quick comparison.
This link
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

It says blue healthy gourmet turkey/chicken has 34% protein but the can says 10% crude protein.

 

[nick8]

here is the analysis from their site
BLUE Healthy Gourmet® Wet Cat Food - Turkey & Chicken | Blue Buffalo

 

[nick8]

he had not eaten in 3 days so i took him to vet today. his blood gluc was 21 mg/dl. Force fed him food and water then gave him insulin.

I have now completely removed the SO food.
I will keep him on the blue healthy gourmet chicken/turkey pate canned food.

I may have to force feed him again if he doens't eat.

Is this blue food good enough or should i switch to another food?

vet told me to give insulin morning and evening only after food but I am thinking I dont have to do this if the food is very low carb?

 

[LTS3]

he had not eaten in 3 days so i took him to vet today. his blood gluc was 21 mg/dl. Force fed him food and water then gave him insulin.

Wait.... 21 mg/dl???? Is that a typo? 21 mg/dl is extremely low and your cat would be severely hypoglycemic. You absolutely do not give any insulin on a blood glucose level that low.

The rule of thumb is to not give a diabetic cat insulin if the blood glucose level is in the normal range of roughly 60 mg/dl to 150 mg/dl. Newbies should heed this advice to prevent hypoglycemia.

vet told me to give insulin morning and evening only after food but I am thinking I dont have to do this if the food is very low carb?

The Blue pate food is fine but feel free to add in other low carb canned foods for variety.

Do you test your cat's blood glucose levels at home? If not, you really should do it. Blindly giving insulin is dangerous. Without knowing what the blood glucose level is, you risk sending your cat into hypoglycemia in a matter of hours. Even if a cat normally has high levels, there's always the chance that one day the levels are low for some reason and giving insulin causes the levels to drop even further. Not good if you have a full time job or are gone most of the day for other things.

Typical recommended routine is to test blood glucose level, feed the cat, then give insulin. All this can be done in less than a minute. I used to have a diabetic cat. He'd be busy eating his meal while I tested him and gave insulin.

While low carb food helps, insulin is often needed until remission is achieved.

You'll get a lot more detailed help and advice from the members on the FelineDiabetes.com message board.

 

[nick8]

Thanks. I was wrong its not mg/dl but actually mmol
Conversion Table for Blood Glucose Monitoring | Joslin Diabetes Center

so around 375 mg/dl

I have ordered a couple of feeding syringes from amazon since he's not eating at all.

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi nick8 !

2 questions:

• Is this the cat who is asthmatic ?
• How much experience do you have doing syringe-feeding ?

.

 

[nick8]

yes he's asthmatic. i dont have much experience i just saw youtube video so just try to open his mouth and put it in there.

 

[nick8]

I am changing the food to vet prescribed purina DM.
I am also going to feed him some purina DM dry food as he's not eating wet at all so at least he'll get something inside him that way.

 

[white shadow]

.
OK, at least he'll have eaten something.

I'll mention a few things about feeding with a syringe.........

There's a huge danger when syringe-feeding a cat.....the very high chance that he will "aspirate" or breathe-in the watery wet food. IF that happens, it can be disastrous. Cats are particularly susceptible to developing a particular type of pneumonia if they aspirate food/liquids.....and, this "aspiration pneumonia" is often fatal. With an asthmatic cat, I suspect the danger of that is increased.

Cats often resist syringe-feeding. The danger of aspiration increases during a struggle. One happened to someone else today, someone who already knew about all this - here's what happened: (the first two paragraphs are enough) Did Pip Aspirate Liquid Meds? That's how easily it can happen.

Some tips for avoiding aspiration:

• never straight down the throat
• never aim for the back of the mouth
• always in the front of the mouth
• on the tongue, above the tongue, in the pocket between the gums and the side of the mouth
• ONLY a few droplets at a time, withdraw, allow swallowing, wait and repeat

I have to run. There's one good video example - look for how those tips are used in it. It has a 'screeching' cat - don't let your cat hear it - it will upset him.

I'll check back later.
.

 

[nick8]

he's spitting out from front of mouth. i may have to admit him.