Bought An “rb” From A Shady Breeder..

[lalagimp]

I'm using Basepaws. I worked an arrangement with them. We're testing two very different cats. This is the other one.

 

[ktea1993]

I'm using Basepaws. I worked an arrangement with them. We're testing two very different cats. This is the other one. View attachment 241293

Ohhh yeah they were my first choice but I read some stuff and got wary. They’re much more cost friendly at $75 with a promo code and omg your cat is so beautiful :~) they only use fur samples correct?

 

[lalagimp]

they only use fur samples correct?

They have two different versions of the CatKit because some people are testing their Sphynxs and Peterbalds, etc.
The light one had just her fur done with the adhesive strip, and Tommy had his fur done the same, but also a cheek swab. He did not like the cheek swap.

 

[lutece]

lalagimp, in a different message you said the following about your cat's Basepaws results, "Top three breeds are Maine Coon, Oriental Shorthair, and Peterbald. She's pretty strictly Domestic. ... Ragdoll was way down the list. She has no heavy leaning towards anything, but those were the top three detected."

Questions for you:

• Did Basepaws quantify in the report how likely it is that your cat actually has any ancestry from any of those breeds? How likely did they say it was?
• Do you believe that your cat has a genetic relationship to the breeds listed? How much do you trust the results you received?
• In particular, in your signature you say your cat "is Maine Coon." Does that mean that you now believe she's predominantly Maine Coon in origin, based on the results from Basepaws?
  
• Have you received any other genetic information about your cat from Basepaws? Color genetics, blood type genetics, disease factors etc.?

 

[lalagimp]

"Because of the frequency of Domestic/mixed breed in the cat population, even a slight deviation from Domestic indicates a preference for this breed. The width of the marker indicates the exactness of our prediction. If your cat does not clearly match a breed, your cat is most likely a Domestic."

They haven't included any other reports besides the indecipherable Wild Cat. I assume I won't see anything else until Christmas, maybe. I'm still waiting to get these first two reports for Tommy.

I put that in my signature for fun. But she's ten pounds!

 

[ktea1993]

They have two different versions of the CatKit because some people are testing their Sphynxs and Peterbalds, etc.
The light one had just her fur done with the adhesive strip, and Tommy had his fur done the same, but also a cheek swab. He did not like the cheek swap.

Gotcha. I might just go with UC Davis because I keep hearing it takes forever to get results back from Basepaws.

 

[lalagimp]

IF that's the most comfortable route for you, make decisions that work for your family. I'm very interested in coming into this from the ground up, and while they keep adding to their database and running discount CatKits, I don't know if I'll get either of the next two promised reports over the next year. I think they have upset a lot of users giving them one expectation at the beginning, and then accepting way more samples than they could keep up with while "still trying to learn new things about the cat genes". I've got all the time in the world. I just have to keep spinning this with each blog update instead of showing myself off as an irritable consumer. These two cats are nine. By the time we get their health reports, I might already know what they are because they age.

 

[ktea1993]

Young Mouse sounds as gorgeous as she looks, and is doing great considering what a tough time she had as a young kitten. I suspect looking such different shades of gray has a lot to do with the transparent fur tips because without the sheen in brighter light you see the deeper, more blue-gray pigment without that ghost-sheen. Mouse looks like she is still developing her adult coat to me as the guard hairs and under-down look to be different length but that might just be the angle of some of your photographs. Her eyes look to be a very similar olive green to Mouse snr's. The green eye colour can vary a lot and some of Mouse's close relatives have the most intense emerald and jade colour eyes.

I have to laugh at how you wanted a boy and ended up with young Mouse. I very nearly didn't take Mouse snr because I had always had female cats and was frightened by the thought of a larger male. I was desperate for feline company after losing my previous cat though and told myself I was being ridiculous for even thinking about not adopting him. So glad I did as he is the silliest cat I could hope to live with and an endless source of entertainment.

One thing I wonder is whether Mouse was quite as young as you think because another member here on TCS , @Brian007 , also adopted a kitten from a breeder then found he was more popular than she had expected. He too came with way too many unwanted 'friends' of the parasitic variety.... She has two Ragdolls and the younger one looks a lot smaller than his adopted brother. Brian007 seems to have got through all the early health issues now but had the same worries as you in having to treat a very young kitten for worms, fleas etc. The decision around spaying is more worrying I think than it is for male cats but I agree that earlier tends to be easier for the cat to cope with, perhaps as they are less likely to have to cope with hormones starting to kick in and then phasing out.

You have the prettiest little cat ktea1993 , and she sounds like her pursonality is just as cute and much bigger than she is in body so don't waste too much time thinking about whether she is or is not 'Russian Blue' in heritage - she has the looks and the pursonality and without registration papers that is the most you are likely to get. And when it comes down to it, the looks and pursonality mean far more than what's written on a registration document. I have met a few Russian Blue cats that have been bred with more concern for particular physical features (which I didn't find very pleasing anyway) and their pursonality was far from friendly or social. If I had to choose between Mouse snr without his paperwork and one of those cats I'd choose Mouse snr every time.

Weirdly, when I checked out how much I had to pay the very responsible and reputable breeder I bought Mouse snr from and the cost of buying a cat of unknown origins from people on the internet (my only option as rescues here don't home to people without gardens or someone in all day etc), with the neutering, vaccination, worming, and microchip costs it worked out the same!

Thank you! She was fluffier as a baby and her eyes are gradually changing over the months. So sorry to hear about your loss, I can’t imagine & don’t want to, but it’s good you found another friend to help you with the grief. I do want a boy, still! I don’t know why, I just prefer the idea of a male cat I guess? I read somewhere they’re more affectionate, but I’m sure every cat is different.. my girl seems to favor the only male in my household, for now. She would always climb up on him or try to squeeze between us and will still do so. If I tried to move her to avoid her being squished she would just go right back. When I brought Mouse in for her first ever exam they said, about how old did you say? I said 7 weeks and they were like, uh, no. I have a picture of Mouse when I first brought her home that I’ll attach. She was SO LITTLE it scares me now. And ugh why do people have to be so shitty, how would they like to be pawned off as babies that have parasites etc? Ripped away from their mother and siblings. Assholes. I do think American RBs look a tad funky, almost alien like tho I still find them cute, so I’m fine with the fact that she is what she is. And yeah, I wonder about the pricing now.. when I googled it I got $400-600 so I was like eh, whatever. ~$1k and up? Yeeeesh.. and that’s ridiculous about the adoption protocols, though I do believe many people don’t see animals as what they are, which are living/feeling beings but that is just too strict. How are the foster cats supposed to find homes? Not many people can afford to stay home or to have extra “luxury” items when it comes to property. If I did not live with two other people I probably wouldn’t have got a kitten, but an adult cat.. I figured the 4 year old calico we had now would get on better with a kitten because kittens are more flexible and don’t particularly threaten. I was wrong, lol, and Daisy is JEALOUS. But I would be too I think. She’s never lived with any other cats and has been where she is now since she was a kitten.

 

[lutece]

The two tests are not equivalent.
The UC Davis Cat Ancestry test gives you:

• The geographic area where your cat's ancestors originated. For most cats in the US, this will come up as Western Europe. However, the Russian Blue is in the South Asia geographic area, as is the Siamese. Assuming that your cat has a significant amount of Russian Blue ancestry, whether it is European or American, she would be expected to come up with South Asia for her geographic origin.
• The genetics of your cat's coat colors, coat length and coat type; that is, they test for color and pattern genes, the longhair gene (recessive), and the genes for rex coat types and hairlessness. If your cat is a purebred Russian Blue, your cat would probably be homozygous for all genes normally seen in the Russian Blue; you would probably not see recessive genes such as colorpoint ("Siamese" pattern) or longhair that are not accepted in the Russian Blue breed.
• If there are any relatively close breed matches, it will give you the breed(s). UC Davis estimates that the match probability to a race or breed is over 90% accurate. However, "since the match is based on statistical analysis, a cat's racial and breed assignment is reported as a probability, not an exact, perfect match."
• Unlike Basepaws, UC Davis doesn't report low probability matches. You will see in the Basepaws result reported by lalagimp that several breeds were reported, even though all of them actually had a low probability match. UC Davis Cat Ancestry won't report this type of match. "A true random bred cat WILL NOT match to specific breeds and low match probabilities will not be reported. If your cat is a true direct cross with a breed, having a true breed parent or grand-parent, this test can detect this breed genetic contribution in your cat." ... "Cat Ancestry does not attempt to report low genetic contributions due to poor accuracy and potentially misleading results."

In contrast, Basepaws:

• Costs less.
• Does not currently report specific genetic information such as color and coat type genetics. Promises to report some specific genetic information eventually, but we don't know exactly what or when.
• Reports a list of breeds for every cat, similar to what lalagimp received, even when the probability of an actual match with any breed on the list is EXTREMELY low. "The Basepaws Alpha Report includes 23 popular cat breeds, with more to come. Cat breeds that have been compared to your cat are listed in order of best match." In fact, Basepaws explains that for most cats, the breeds that they list on your cat's report are probably not actually ancestors of your cat, because most cats do not actually have purebred ancestors. "Unlike dogs, most cats do not have purebred ancestors. If our report focused on the breakdown of cat family trees, the majority of cats would come back 100% Domestic. [...] In order to serve all cats regardless of their pedigree, Basepaws developed a Breed Index that can be used by any Domestic or purebred cat."
• Finally, we do not know very much about Basepaws' database. It contains some purebred cats, but we do not know how many cats of each breed are in their database, or whether it represents a good cross section of bloodlines, even within the US. Here is what Basepaws says: "We are hoping to add multiple bloodlines and are working with breeders in the US and worldwide to help us create a database what representative is, but we can do better." So, even if Basepaws reports a relatively strong breed match for a cat, it is not clear how accurate this report would be, because this depends on having a large, broad reference database.

 

[ktea1993]

The two tests are not equivalent.
The UC Davis Cat Ancestry test gives you:

• The geographic area where your cat's ancestors originated. For most cats in the US, this will come up as Western Europe. However, the Russian Blue is in the South Asia geographic area, as is the Siamese. Assuming that your cat has a significant amount of Russian Blue ancestry, whether it is European or American, she would be expected to come up with South Asia for her geographic origin.
• The genetics of your cat's coat colors, coat length and coat type; that is, they test for color and pattern genes, the longhair gene (recessive), and the genes for rex coat types and hairlessness. If your cat is a purebred Russian Blue, your cat would probably be homozygous for all genes normally seen in the Russian Blue; you would probably not see recessive genes such as colorpoint ("Siamese" pattern) or longhair that are not accepted in the Russian Blue breed.
• If there are any relatively close breed matches, it will give you the breed(s). UC Davis estimates that the match probability to a race or breed is over 90% accurate. However, "since the match is based on statistical analysis, a cat's racial and breed assignment is reported as a probability, not an exact, perfect match."
• Unlike Basepaws, UC Davis doesn't report low probability matches. You will see in the Basepaws result reported by lalagimp that several breeds were reported, even though all of them actually had a low probability match. UC Davis Cat Ancestry won't report this type of match. "A true random bred cat WILL NOT match to specific breeds and low match probabilities will not be reported. If your cat is a true direct cross with a breed, having a true breed parent or grand-parent, this test can detect this breed genetic contribution in your cat." ... "Cat Ancestry does not attempt to report low genetic contributions due to poor accuracy and potentially misleading results."

In contrast, Basepaws:

• Costs less.
• Does not currently report specific genetic information such as color and coat type genetics. Promises to report some specific genetic information eventually, but we don't know exactly what or when.
• Reports a list of breeds for every cat, similar to what lalagimp received, even when the probability of an actual match with any breed on the list is EXTREMELY low. "The Basepaws Alpha Report includes 23 popular cat breeds, with more to come. Cat breeds that have been compared to your cat are listed in order of best match." In fact, Basepaws explains that for most cats, the breeds that they list on your cat's report are probably not actually ancestors of your cat, because most cats do not actually have purebred ancestors. "Unlike dogs, most cats do not have purebred ancestors. If our report focused on the breakdown of cat family trees, the majority of cats would come back 100% Domestic. [...] In order to serve all cats regardless of their pedigree, Basepaws developed a Breed Index that can be used by any Domestic or purebred cat."
• Finally, we do not know very much about Basepaws' database. It contains some purebred cats, but we do not know how many cats of each breed are in their database, or whether it represents a good cross section of bloodlines, even within the US. Here is what Basepaws says: "We are hoping to add multiple bloodlines and are working with breeders in the US and worldwide to help us create a database what representative is, but we can do better." So, even if Basepaws reports a relatively strong breed match for a cat, it is not clear how accurate this report would be, because this depends on having a large, broad reference database.

So awesome. Ty!

 

[Wags]

For your entertainment - fist pic in Niki in her favourite spot on my shoulder, second on my friend Ania's shoulder this photo is unfiltered, coming on to dusk in certain light she looks thos 'blue' lol

View media item 421490
View media item 421489

 

[ktea1993]

For your entertainment - fist pic in Niki in her favourite spot on my shoulder, second on my friend Ania's shoulder this photo is unfiltered, coming on to dusk in certain light she looks thos 'blue' lol

View media item 421490
View media item 421489

She is so pretty! Thank you for adding more pictures of her, she’s a doll. Her coat and eyes are seriously stunning I would never get tired of looking at her. Not that Mouse isn’t the love of my life lol, but the contrast on Niki is definitely more noticeable. Here are some new pictures of Mouse. I feel like she gets bigger every day, almost at 6 lbs! Kind of a random question, but did you get Niki as a kitten, and if so, did she ever at one point have well.. seriously fishy breath? I read it’s due to teething and stops around 8 months. Mouse is approaching her 5th month I believe but man her breath! It could kill hahah

 

[Wags]

Niki was 4.5 months when I got her, so not really little. She had her baby teeth for longer than she should have (says Vet) but she was a little bit of a thing. I don't recall any particular issue with breath smell - her breath smells like cat food lol i do brush her teeth (not as often as I shoulh - she hates it) and I make sure she has cat treats that help teething. Also plastic straws are supposed to be good for teething - Niki loves playing with them and chewing them up, they are the cheapest cat toy I have ever found haha

 

[MissMiloPuss]

I'm not expert but she looks like the real deal to me and she's very cute. Even if she's not thoroughbread she's still perfect. Are you sure she was younger than 7 weeks? She may have been just small.

 

[ktea1993]

Niki was 4.5 months when I got her, so not really little. She had her baby teeth for longer than she should have (says Vet) but she was a little bit of a thing. I don't recall any particular issue with breath smell - her breath smells like cat food lol i do brush her teeth (not as often as I shoulh - she hates it) and I make sure she has cat treats that help teething. Also plastic straws are supposed to be good for teething - Niki loves playing with them and chewing them up, they are the cheapest cat toy I have ever found haha

I’m sorry, I’m not getting any more notifications on my post for some reason. Her teeth are really loose by now but I was told her smelly breath is because of teething, I got really paranoid about it because I tried to brush them the other day and they began to bleed. But, guess all is normal according to the vet which is a relief lol she’s had so many issues so far yeah lmao q-tips and straws

 

[ktea1993]

I'm not expert but she looks like the real deal to me and she's very cute. Even if she's not thoroughbread she's still perfect. Are you sure she was younger than 7 weeks? She may have been just small.

Thank you! I’m going to get her tested at some point as I was told they do have some European RBs in the UC Davis database. She is very cute, she knows it lol thank you for your response!

 

[ktea1993]

I'm not expert but she looks like the real deal to me and she's very cute. Even if she's not thoroughbread she's still perfect. Are you sure she was younger than 7 weeks? She may have been just small.

Oh my bad forgot to respond to this last part, I was told by a vet that she was under 7 weeks when I got her. They could tell by her teeth, that’s what I was told. She was extremely small and had fleas, worms, a cold.. she was in bad shape. Cried the entire night we got her at first, couldn’t be alone. Missed her mama I’m sure. But, she’s very healthy now and is actually getting kind of chunky! She loves food, she will overeat to the point of vomiting sometimes.. she’ll eat the older cats dry food and then eat all her food in under 30 minutes if we don’t catch her in time. Any time we have anything that smells good, she comes over to inspect it. She’s still growing obviously so I don’t mind the chub lol