Bought An “rb” From A Shady Breeder..

ktea1993

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I’m going to end up ordering a DNA test for her but I bought a kitten in March from a breeder that claims she is a Russian Blue. Does she look like one, or are all RBs the same very light grey color with emerald green eyes?
 

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Wags

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She is gorgeous, may I ask what country are you in? Your kitten looks a lot like Niki - even the poses and sitting position lol the little folded over paws when sitting. May I ask why you think the breeder was dodgy?
Also a profile pic would help RB's have quite a flat nose profile

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ktea1993

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I don’t know how to edit my post lol so here are some more photos of her, she was pretty small here
 

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ktea1993

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She is gorgeous, may I ask what country are you in? Your kitten looks a lot like Niki - even the poses and sitting position lol the little folded over paws when sitting. May I ask why you think the breeder was dodgy?
Also a profile pic would help RB's have quite a flat nose profile

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The breeder was awful, she was sold to me under the impression that she was 7 weeks when in reality she was only 4 weeks, she had worms, fleas.. my poor baby. She actually has a “hump” shaped nose in her profile, and I am located in the US. She is very long, as is her tail and her eyes are brightening up as she gets older. I’ll just have to test her to be sure but I’m kinda doubtful at this point.. paid good money for her and I love her to bits but it still sucks.
 

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I agree she looks very russian even if the head nose profile isnt perfect.

American rb tends to be light silver blue almost liliac.

European rb tends to be darker. Silvery tipped darkish blue.
 
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ktea1993

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Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I spoke with a different breeder of RB’s and he said she did look the part. Yes, I’ve noticed the different types of RBs and was asking myself if there is one “true” RB breed that I guess would be the American breed? They’re very unique looking and can’t really be mistaken for anything else. If anything I figured maybe she’s atleast half and was bred with an RB & a blue domestic.. I hope not but trying to be realistic. She had more of a plushy coat as a kitten. Some more pics! She was way too little here :( I was/am way ignorant when it comes to pure breeds or even how a kitten should look at a certain age. I just got excited and grabbed her before anyone else could. Stupid.
 

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Agree with all above
I asked about country because I am in Australia and so Niki is of European heritage. Your kitten looks very like Niki to me, even in eye colour (no not all have that bright emerald, but definately green) her coat is lovely and those big big ears.
Sorry to hear about your breeder experience - 4 weeks is so very young she must have been tiny. If you were looking at internet pictures of RB's you can get a distorted view I think - you know they may be 'perfect' show cats, top of their field but not necessarily 'standard' Your baby looks very RB to me and is gorgeous just out of interest were you given papers for her? Re her perantage
 
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ktea1993

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What an adorable little kitty you have! Yep, I'll say she's a Russian Blue, she's got the coat, the face... I'll be absolutely shocked if the test say otherwise. Do let me know, 'cause I'm curious.
Thank you very much! I am really hoping this is the case, someone from the vet I go to (receptionist) said oh no, she’s too dark to be an RB.. a tech said she looked like she had Siamese in her and I didn’t bother saying oh yeah, she’s supposed to be a purebred. I read Siamese traits were bred into RBs though. I’ll definitely post an update when I figure which testing kit to use.. it’ll take a while but I’m so bummed at the idea of being swindled I gotta know haha.
 
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ktea1993

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Agree with all above
I asked about country because I am in Australia and so Niki is of European heritage. Your kitten looks very like Niki to me, even in eye colour (no not all have that bright emerald, but definately green) her coat is lovely and those big big ears.
Sorry to hear about your breeder experience - 4 weeks is so very young she must have been tiny. If you were looking at internet pictures of RB's you can get a distorted view I think - you know they may be 'perfect' show cats, top of their field but not necessarily 'standard' Your baby looks very RB to me and is gorgeous just out of interest were you given papers for her? Re her perantage
Oh thank you :) makes me feel much better. Your cat is gorgeous as well and does resemble my Mouse. I named her that because of her gigantic ears and her long tail. She was so tiny when I got her, didn’t know how to use her litter box or how to groom. She had a cold, too. I’m an IDIOT and didn’t even think about papers because I was so excited to get her, I just handed over my money and thought, well, she looks exactly like she should, so? But I am also seeing other kitties on the net who resemble her and are being labeled as blue domestic shorthair. If I’m wrong I’ll be glad, gonna go with Basepaws for testing I think.. I really just didn’t think it through, the breeder was rushing me and kept saying, I can’t hold her! First come! So I was like screw it y’know? Stupid! ‍♀
 
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ktea1993

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What an adorable little kitty you have! Yep, I'll say she's a Russian Blue, she's got the coat, the face... I'll be absolutely shockedhohh

How much did she cost out of curiosity? All the cats I've owed (6 in total) where all free XD
I should’ve adopted :( buuut she was $450! Big bucks. That’s the baseline price for RB kittens I read so I was like eh whatever. But I never thought, hey dummy what if she’s not even purebred? Now I’m kicking myself for it, thinking I got screwed by some lady who is just peddling out sick baby kittens for money. Greedy wench.
 

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I was trying to find some picks of different RB's - the first link is to the American champions - they are quite different from what I know (and very exaggerated in their features - not saying thats bad just saying just because your Mouse isn't like that, doesn't mean she's not an RB) and the second link have some beautiful Australian cats (some champions in there too)... and another pic of Niki because I just can't help it haha
Hope you keep posting as Mouse gets bigger, would love to see her when she is all grown up

CFA International Show Results & Pictures | CFA Russian Blue Cats

barishka russian blues

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ktea1993

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I was trying to find some picks of different RB's - the first link is to the American champions - they are quite different from what I know (and very exaggerated in their features - not saying thats bad just saying just because your Mouse isn't like that, doesn't mean she's not an RB) and the second link have some beautiful Australian cats (some champions in there too)... and another pic of Niki because I just can't help it haha
Hope you keep posting as Mouse gets bigger, would love to see her when she is all grown up

CFA International Show Results & Pictures | CFA Russian Blue Cats

barishka russian blues

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Thank you! Nikki is so gorgeous! She has the lighter coat which I think is stunning. It’s good to see the different variations and features to compare because everything I’ve read has been so clear cut, like if she doesn’t look specificly like one type she just isn’t purebred. I spoke to an RB breeder association and they said she does look like one, but a British type which is unusual cuz of where I’m located. If she’s the breed I paid for, I honestly don’t care which variation she is haha. I didn’t know there were so many different types of blue breeds, I almost thought she might be a Korat when I saw them. I’ll definitely keep posting her as she gets bigger, she’s such a big girl already from when I first had her. I was told there is no DNA test to back up pedigree but I find that hard to believe.. we’ll find out I guess. It’s true that the US favors the lighter coats in RBs which is annoying because it misleads people and when I did search the breed to get a better comparison, they were all that very light color with those crazy green eyes. So now I’m scrambling all over the internet like an asshole for validation LOL
 

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Can't resist chipping in here - Mouse is adorable, and she has the perfect name for a Russian Blue cat. :thumbsup: Of course she is young Mouse to me because my resident Mouse is now 7 years old. :lol: He has that bumpy profile to his nose too. It isn't ideal but it didn't stop Mouse snr from getting his Premier (neuter equivalent to Champion) certificate here in the UK. His lovely mama had the same profile. Actually it is the little bump on Mouse snr's nose that makes him look mouse-like when I look at him in profile sometimes. ;)
I agree young Mouse looks very much like a Russian Blue, though I am thinking from what you have said so far, that the breeder you went to did not give you any breed documentation to say Mouse is registered with TICA or anything? In some ways it is sad but many people believe any cat with a full gray coat is a Russian Blue however it is a coat colour that occurs naturally - but of course all blue cats are gorgeous. :agree:
The biggest telling features for a true RB coat are the transparent tips to each strand of fur (which look silver in the light but are actually without any pigment) which has already been mentioned, and that the coat should stand out from the body and not resist when it is stroked in different directions. There may be more resistance over the spine, and fur on the top of the head, limbs and tail will have 'nap' but otherwise it feels quite different to any other breed. Not unlike a deep velvet that doesn't have any direction to it.
People who live with RBs will often tell you that there are a few other common traits - mischief making, overly fond of food, and being extremely good training their humans. I can confirm that Mouse snr has all of these traits. :frustrated: The UK/Australian RB cats are preferred with ears pointing up and TICA like them to slant out to the side. Also I understand the breed pool was becoming too small and they used Siamese to widen out the genetic pool again which resulted in some changes in appearance which you have noted.
Enjoy young Mouse, she looks like she has a big character, and already has you under her paw - very RB like in every way. :D
 
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ktea1993

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Can't resist chipping in here - Mouse is adorable, and she has the perfect name for a Russian Blue cat. :thumbsup: Of course she is young Mouse to me because my resident Mouse is now 7 years old. :lol: He has that bumpy profile to his nose too. It isn't ideal but it didn't stop Mouse snr from getting his Premier (neuter equivalent to Champion) certificate here in the UK. His lovely mama had the same profile. Actually it is the little bump on Mouse snr's nose that makes him look mouse-like when I look at him in profile sometimes. ;)
I agree young Mouse looks very much like a Russian Blue, though I am thinking from what you have said so far, that the breeder you went to did not give you any breed documentation to say Mouse is registered with TICA or anything? In some ways it is sad but many people believe any cat with a full gray coat is a Russian Blue however it is a coat colour that occurs naturally - but of course all blue cats are gorgeous. :agree:
The biggest telling features for a true RB coat are the transparent tips to each strand of fur (which look silver in the light but are actually without any pigment) which has already been mentioned, and that the coat should stand out from the body and not resist when it is stroked in different directions. There may be more resistance over the spine, and fur on the top of the head, limbs and tail will have 'nap' but otherwise it feels quite different to any other breed. Not unlike a deep velvet that doesn't have any direction to it.
People who live with RBs will often tell you that there are a few other common traits - mischief making, overly fond of food, and being extremely good training their humans. I can confirm that Mouse snr has all of these traits. :frustrated: The UK/Australian RB cats are preferred with ears pointing up and TICA like them to slant out to the side. Also I understand the breed pool was becoming too small and they used Siamese to widen out the genetic pool again which resulted in some changes in appearance which you have noted.
Enjoy young Mouse, she looks like she has a big character, and already has you under her paw - very RB like in every way. :D
LMAO I love your username because uh same. Thank you very much! She’s a brat, she knows exactly how to get her way and she’s not even 6 months old yet. I can’t imagine her at a year. Your cat is beautiful btw :) and no, I received no proof that Mouse was a true RB so naturally I’m worried about it now.. 5 months later. I didn’t know blue domestic shorthairs could resemble RBs so much, but I have gotten good feedback from everyone I have asked, so I am feeling a little better about it. In any other situation I wouldn’t care but I paid a lot for her. The whole process of buying her was rushed and messy, Mouse was maybe 4 weeks when I first got her and I had no clue. I wanted a boy but she was so little it was impossible to tell them apart, the breeder just grabbed one and gave her to me. Ugh. She had worms and fleas, a cold.. she would cry for her mom I’m assuming and I thought nothing of it. She slept on everyone’s shoulder until she was too big, then decided for the head and now she’s more independent, but she’ll cuddle up most days without prompting. Very affectionate and cries when she wants your attention, she’ll throw herself down on the bed to show her belly and give you love looks. She does have the silver tipping and almost white fur on her underbelly, as well as phantom stripes on her tail and lower body. She also greets people when she wakes up, or when they come home from work, she is very vocal when she wants attention and she is a PIG! Always wants what everyone is eating, steals the older cats food and sometimes eats herself sick. Very playful and when she wants to rough house, that’s what’s gonna happen lol. I love her bump and her big ears, she’s such a dork. I do hope I can find a way to see if she’s purebred though, but some people have told me it’s not possible. I was gonna try Basepaws.. if you have any advice on the matter of testing her I’d appreciate it but thank you for your feedback regardless, very appreciated. Here’s some more pictures of her LOL if anyone hasn’t had enough yet
 

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I know that it may feel like you paid a whole lot for her, but $450 is a very low price for a pedigreed kitten. Generally a pedigreed kitten from a reputable breeder will cost at least $1000 with many breeds costing much more than that. Most breeders do not make money on their kittens either... most breeders have substantial expenses involved in raising their kittens, especially with uncommon breeds like the Russian Blue where there is a lot of travel involved in acquiring unrelated breeding stock and arranging matings with out of town stud cats. Then there are the rapidly increasing costs of prenatal and pediatric vet care, etc... On the other hand, people who really cut corners can make a buck on their kittens, and it sounds like that may have been the sort of breeder you encountered, especially since the kitten was let go very young and without proper vet care.

It's possible that you didn't receive a pedigree because your kitten's parents were unregistered Russian Blues (possibly the breeder is using breeding stock originally bought as pets without registration rights); it is possible also that the breeder is crossing a Russian Blue parent with a solid blue domestic shorthair. Your kitten looks like there is some Russian Blue in there, but I'm not sure it is 100% since the look is different from most Russian Blues in the US.

If you really want to do genetic testing, I would recommend UC Davis "Cat Ancestry" test over Basepaws.
Cat Ancestry
UC Davis has been doing these tests much longer than Basepaws, you get results more rapidly, you know exactly what you are getting and you can trust the results.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about the pedigree, because at this point, you have a beautiful cat that you love!
 
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ktea1993

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I know that it may feel like you paid a whole lot for her, but $450 is a very low price for a pedigreed kitten. Generally a pedigreed kitten from a reputable breeder will cost at least $1000 with many breeds costing much more than that. Most breeders do not make money on their kittens either... most breeders have substantial expenses involved in raising their kittens, especially with uncommon breeds like the Russian Blue where there is a lot of travel involved in acquiring unrelated breeding stock and arranging matings with out of town stud cats. Then there are the rapidly increasing costs of prenatal and pediatric vet care, etc... On the other hand, people who really cut corners can make a buck on their kittens, and it sounds like that may have been the sort of breeder you encountered, especially since the kitten was let go very young and without proper vet care.

It's possible that you didn't receive a pedigree because your kitten's parents were unregistered Russian Blues (possibly the breeder is using breeding stock originally bought as pets without registration rights); it is possible also that the breeder is crossing a Russian Blue parent with a solid blue domestic shorthair. Your kitten looks like there is some Russian Blue in there, but I'm not sure it is 100% since the look is different from most Russian Blues in the US.

If you really want to do genetic testing, I would recommend UC Davis "Cat Ancestry" test over Basepaws.
Cat Ancestry
UC Davis has been doing these tests much longer than Basepaws, you get results more rapidly, you know exactly what you are getting and you can trust the results.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about the pedigree, because at this point, you have a beautiful cat that you love!

Yeah, I kind of figured maybe she was bred with a domestic shorthair, but I messaged an RB breeding association and was told she indeed does look like an RB, but of European descent. They said British. The American RBs have that unmistakable shimmery light gray coat and the vivid green eyes, European are darker slate and don’t necessarily have the same shade of green eyes. I am hoping I’m wrong about her being bred with a domestic, though. I read that $459-500 is baseline price for an RB kitten, so I’m not exactly sure what to believe at this point. I don’t wanna know what that breeder was doing to animals behind closed doors, probably filthy living conditions and it indeed was just for a quick buck. People like that make me sick. I will invest into testing because I want very badly to know if I got what I paid for, I saw the Davis test but am not sure which one to pick? Do any of them indicate the breed or percentages? I looked but got confused lol. Thank you! She is beautiful irregardless and is a lovebug, and I’d never love her less if she wasn’t what I wanted her to be. It would just be nice to say I owned a true RB. They’re lovely.
 
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ktea1993

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Woops, sorry I didn’t read that message properly. Didn’t see the link. Thank you for providing the click through!
 

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She looks enough like a Russian Blue that she appears to have Russian Blue ancestry, but it's not possible to tell from looking at the pictures if she is 100% purebred. She could have some blue domestic shorthair in her, or she could come from American bloodlines that have not been selected for the show standard (her parents or ancestors may have been sold as pets without papers), or she could come from European bloodlines... although usually, breeders who have imported European bloodlines advertise that fact and charge MORE for the pets, not less.

You can contact breeders if you want to get a sense for how much pedigreed Russian Blues cost. Here is a listing with some Russian Blue breeders that advertise: FBRL: Cat Breeders: Russian Blue Breeders

Why not just contact the original breeder, ask her where she got her cats and ask for the pedigree of the kittens?
 
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ktea1993

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She looks enough like a Russian Blue that she appears to have Russian Blue ancestry, but it's not possible to tell from looking at the pictures if she is 100% purebred. She could have some blue domestic shorthair in her, or she could come from American bloodlines that have not been selected for the show standard (her parents or ancestors may have been sold as pets without papers), or she could come from European bloodlines... although usually, breeders who have imported European bloodlines advertise that fact and charge MORE for the pets, not less.

You can contact breeders if you want to get a sense for how much pedigreed Russian Blues cost. Here is a listing with some Russian Blue breeders that advertise: FBRL: Cat Breeders: Russian Blue Breeders

Why not just contact the original breeder, ask her where she got her cats and ask for the pedigree of the kittens?
Yeah, the RB breeder association said it would be unusual that she’s the British type because of my location, but that’s what she looks like. In all likelihood she is probably not what I thought. And well, I kind of sent the breeder some not so nice messages when I found out what bad shape my kitten was in. She changed her number or blocked me. Ha. She wasn’t honest with me about her age or her health, or even the gender so I wouldn’t get any answers from her. Mouse is definitely not a “show cat” and people at my vet looked at me funny when I said she’s SUPPOSED to be an RB, but I’m assuming they’re just thinking about the standard RB features which is the very light coat and the eyes. Will that ancestry test be able to tell me what I need to know, for example if she was purebred would it show that? Sorry if I’m asking dumb questions, I legitimately know nothing about this stuff.
 

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No DNA test can tell you for sure if she is a purebred. A DNA test can indicate if she is a close match with other Russian Blues that are in the database they are using.

UC Davis has a fairly large database that continues to grow. I expect that the majority of Russian Blues in the database are from North American bloodlines. So if she comes from North American bloodlines she should come up with Russian Blue listed as a high probability for her breed. If she comes from other bloodlines, she may not come up as a high probability match.

I do not know how many Russian Blues are in Basepaws' database; they are still developing their tests and looking for additional cats to sample. I expect that the Russian Blues in their database probably also represent North American bloodlines.
 
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