Just a thought, is it possible that he's not allergic to chicken? Maybe chicken got a bad rap?
Okay...double major weirdness.I literally just found that article and posted the link to it on this thread!
Sebastian definitely reacts to guar gum. Based on the latest food trials and me documenting everything, he reacts to a food containing guar gum in about 3-5 days by getting a rash in his ear, and it can take up to 2-3 weeks for the rash to go away after stopping the food. But this is all just on the outside. Who knows what's going on inside.
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Best rotation to prevent food allergies
- Thread starter goholistic
- Start Date
This was my take on it: http://catcentric.org/2014/03/30/pet-food-ingredients-to-avoid-xanthan-gum/
I think whether a sensitivity develops would depend on the manufacturing process - I suspect xanthan gum in different batches of food may be different, so it can be a moving target (kind of like guar gum with or without soy). It is responsible for the deaths of some infants.
The problem *appeared* to be lined to bacterial overgrowth - which, at this point, shouldn't be an issue for Sebastian. But the stuff obviously can cause seriously harmful problems in the wrong set of circumstances.- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #43
It's very possible. I figured I'd get through the five proteins I have laid out (rabbit, pork, turkey, beef, duck). If everything goes smoothly, I may re-introduce chicken again at some point and add that to the rotation. The last time he had chicken was August 2013, so it has been awhile. By the time we get through beef and duck, it'll be almost 10 months since he's had chicken.
Thanks for the info. Hmm....this is enough for me to want to avoid it. AHHHH!This was my take on it: http://catcentric.org/2014/03/30/pet-food-ingredients-to-avoid-xanthan-gum/
I think whether a sensitivity develops would depend on the manufacturing process - I suspect xanthan gum in different batches of food may be different, so it can be a moving target (kind of like guar gum with or without soy). It is responsible for the deaths of some infants.The problem *appeared* to be lined to bacterial overgrowth - which, at this point, shouldn't be an issue for Sebastian. But the stuff obviously can cause seriously harmful problems in the wrong set of circumstances.
Honestly, I'm very surprised Dr. Becker's article didn't mention the issues found with it as re: the deaths of the babies. Hardly benign and, IMO, not "just another non-nutritive, carb-based additive."
Yes, rare situation, potentially rare circumstances. But with so many cats apparently suffering from bacterial overgrowth... I would imagine this is contributing to GI problems, potentially IBD, and possibly intestinal lymphoma.
Hardly benign and, IMO, not "just another non-nutritive, carb-based additive." Yes, rare situation, potentially rare circumstances. But with so many cats apparently suffering from bacterial overgrowth... I would imagine this is contributing to GI problems, potentially IBD, and possibly intestinal lymphoma.
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- #45
I laughed out loud at this. It seems whatever is rare will happen to my cats!
I've been following this thread with great interest as it turns out my male cat seems to have a sensitive stomach. We're still in the "eliminate all bad things and don't change anything phase" as I am in the process of weaning him off cisapride. But prior to setting on Nature's Variety Instinct canned food, he vomited or became extremely nauseous after eating food containing one or more of the following ingredients: chicken, guar gum, carrageenan, xantham gum, locust bean gum, and cassia gum. Just recently we tried feeding him Tiki Cat chicken (no carrageenan or gums) and his hacking asthma cough that had disappeared returned briefly. Once he's off cisapride, I am going to experiment a bit to see what effect some of the currently off-limits food have, as I don't like feeling so limited in our brands. We will also introduce raw once he's off cisapride. Just know you're not alone.
Oh hun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: I didn't even think about it when I wrote it! :anon: I also think it's less rare than it seems. I think pets and people have reactions to these things and don't know it, and the right culprit doesn't necessarily get identified. In a protein/brand switch, maybe they wind up with a different enough guar gum or something. :dk:
Have you considered making his cat food? It's really not that difficult - cooked or not. :dk:
Quite possibly. I did not have any scopes/biopsies done to my cats, and I never figured out what it was in canned food that was making them so sick. When raw worked, I went with it and never looked back.
I laughed out loud at this. It seems whatever is rare will happen to my cats!A guar gum allergy certainly does not seem common. Or is it and people just don't know it?
Yes, I am very seriously considering doing so now. I am tired of worrying about what's in the food and what new thing will come up. Right now, my options for commercial food are very limited and I don't like that. We are seeing the holistic veterinarian tomorrow, who has a strong interest in nutrition, and will discuss appropriate supplementation for cooked homemade. I've been reading the raw and homecooked forum, too, for ideas.Have you considered making his cat food? It's really not that difficult - cooked or not.
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- #51
I'm sorry you're going through this, too!
LOL...no worries. I think you're right, though.Oh hun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I didn't even think about it when I wrote it!I also think it's less rare than it seems. I think pets and people have reactions to these things and don't know it, and the right culprit doesn't necessarily get identified. In a protein/brand switch, maybe they wind up with a different enough guar gum or something.
I think this probably happens a lot. People make the switch and you never really know.
I'm doing part premium canned and part home-cooked for Sebastian. Doing home-cooked is more work than raw (simply because you have the extra step of cooking), so if your cats can handle raw, that is definitely the easier way to go. I did give raw a go a few times, and it was easy to throw together.
Thanks. I am just so grateful to have found this site and all the help and support.
I am strongly leaning towards doing part home-cooked and part premium canned, as well. Due to all of his food sensitivities, the only brand I had found thus far he could eat was Nature's Variety Instinct. My female's stools seem to be getting harder on this food and she even had mild constipation last week. But I saw you mentioned Lotus Just Juicy; I found a store not too far and we tried turkey this morning, which both cats seemed to like. I am considering a mix of Nature's Variety Instinct, Lotus Just Juicy, and homecooked. But I would feel better about homecooking with a good supplement; how are you liking Balance It? We can't go raw yet until he is off cisapride.
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- #53
Aww...it's nice to hear when people are being helped.
That's interesting that she's getting constipated on NV Instinct. Maybe it's the clay? Are they on an all-wet diet? I do add water to the NV before serving; it kind of makes a gravy.
Yes, Sebastian really liked the Lotus Just Juicy Turkey, as well, when he was on his turkey rotation. I also purchased the Pork, but we won't be able to try that until we're back on our pork rotation.
I like Balance It, but you do need a kitchen scale that measures in grams. I don't particularly like that the Carnivore Blend (which is meant to be used with meat only) is made for cats and dogs because I do feel that cats have very unique, specific dietary needs. But since I am not offering home-cooked exclusively, I think it is okay. I started this thread about Balance It: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263825/clarification-on-balance-it-supplement-for-home-cooked. If you'd like to talk more about Balance It, we should probably do it there.
They are on an all-wet diet. We transitioned them last summer after Tim's second serious constipation episode. After a bunch of other problems in late January and early February, I moved them from Wellness grain-free canned to Nature's Variety Instinct LID canned. They currently eat LID turkey and we recently added the rabbit. I had been adding true bone broth plus some water before serving, but now add a small amount of meat broth to Tim's food and filtered water only to Abby's food. I made bone broth for Tim to help with his nausea and I think it may have helped, as his outward signs of nausea have stopped.
I'm not sure if the clay in the NVI is causing the hard stools, though I've heard that happens in some cases. I also think NVI may be a little high in calcium due to bits of bone I find on occasion in the food. I suspect calcium because reducing both cats' intake of calcium by cutting the bone broth made a difference in both cats (I have learned that bone broth is a very good source of calcium). Because the female's stools are still harder than I'd like and she seems to have to work a bit to get them out, I'm not giving her any broth right now. I am hoping that blending the Lotus Just Juicy with the Nature's Variety Instinct will dilute both the clay and the calcium and help both cats.
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- #55
I don't know about the calcium, but the bones are my (and Sebastian's) biggest peeve with the NV LID Turkey wet food. I found that it was loaded with bones. They are very tiny, but a lot of them makes for a very gritty texture. Sebastian hates bones and tries to shake them out of his mouth. I tried to pick them out as best as possible (a pain!). This was another reason I was looking for another turkey wet food without guar gum that I could rotate with the NV, and I ended up finding Lotus.
We're 1.5 weeks into our beef rotation with home-cooked beef and Weruva Steak Frites and so far no reaction to the xanthan gum.
So glad Sebastian isn't reacting to the xantham gum so far!!!!!
Regarding NVI LID turkey, most of our cans haven't been too bad in terms of bones. But a few were pretty heavy and I tried to pick most out. I think, unfortunately, it varies by batch. I feed the rabbit, as well, and had a couple of bony cans.
Regarding beef, that's a tough one. The only other single-protein brands I am aware of are Pure Vita and Hounds & Gatos, but both contain guar gum. I read your review of Tiki Cat beef and liver, then reviewed the ingredients and other varieties. Not terribly impressed.
Regarding NVI LID turkey, most of our cans haven't been too bad in terms of bones. But a few were pretty heavy and I tried to pick most out. I think, unfortunately, it varies by batch. I feed the rabbit, as well, and had a couple of bony cans.
Regarding beef, that's a tough one. The only other single-protein brands I am aware of are Pure Vita and Hounds & Gatos, but both contain guar gum. I read your review of Tiki Cat beef and liver, then reviewed the ingredients and other varieties. Not terribly impressed.
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- #57
I have a feeling I'm going to have a difficult time with the next rotation (duck) starting next week. I opened a can of the NV LID Duck formula for Boo to try (and get a sneak peek at what I'll be dealing with for Sebastian). It was worse. It was loaded with bones, even moreso than the LID Turkey and bigger, and I don't think Sebastian is going to take to this very well. There's really no other canned duck food without guar gum in it except the prescription Royal Canin Selected Protein PD (pea and duck). I could try this, but I'd have to get it approved and a script written from my vet so that I can purchase it online (they don't carry the PD in stock).
I purchased boneless ground duck online, and that will be here this week. It's the only duck I can find that I can cook. I cannot find duck (not even whole duck) locally.
Duck is really hard to find outside of the holiday season. Sometimes you can't find duck even at Christmas time. If you lived close to a Chinese-American community you could probably find it but otherwise that's a difficult one.
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- #59
Well, there are some duck swimming over at the lake by my house.
I hope Sebastian likes the boneless ground duck from Hare Today.
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- #60
Three things...
One: I'm not sure how Sebastian is doing on the duck. It's only been one full day of duck, and he seems to behave like his tummy doesn't feel well. I'm sure the duck is more rich than the lean beef we just finished, so I'm going to keep an eye on him.
Two: I thought I caught a glimpse of a slightly pink rash starting on his ear. It is hard to tell, though, so I'm going to keep an eye on this as well. If he's reacting to the duck, the rash will get worse.
Three: I'm so pissed at Nature's Variety. I bought seven cans of the Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Duck food yesterday. I opened one of those cans last night and there was flaxseed in the food! There's not supposed to be flaxseed in the LID version. I saw ground up bits and also whole flaxseeds. I took pictures and contacted NV. I did feed it to Sebastian, so I suppose its possible he could be reacting to the flaxseed. What a PITA! And so disappointing...
One: I'm not sure how Sebastian is doing on the duck. It's only been one full day of duck, and he seems to behave like his tummy doesn't feel well. I'm sure the duck is more rich than the lean beef we just finished, so I'm going to keep an eye on him.
Two: I thought I caught a glimpse of a slightly pink rash starting on his ear. It is hard to tell, though, so I'm going to keep an eye on this as well. If he's reacting to the duck, the rash will get worse.
Three: I'm so pissed at Nature's Variety. I bought seven cans of the Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Duck food yesterday. I opened one of those cans last night and there was flaxseed in the food! There's not supposed to be flaxseed in the LID version. I saw ground up bits and also whole flaxseeds. I took pictures and contacted NV. I did feed it to Sebastian, so I suppose its possible he could be reacting to the flaxseed. What a PITA! And so disappointing...
