Best rotation to prevent food allergies

[goholistic]

 
Ground flaxseed and flaxseed meal are one and the same. It can be listed as either one. 

Sorry to hear about the Turkey LID. Hopefully things will go better with the BB - Looks like the potato is the only carb, so that's a plus.

I purchased some Wild Calling Rabbit and it makes the second time I have had to throw this brand of food out! The smell was REALLY bad, like food-gone-bad, bad. I just couldn't do it. So its back to the NV Chicken, and some NV Rabbit for now.

Sebastian really liked the Hound & Gatos Rabbit for the short time period he was eating it. It does have duck liver in it, however, so it's not a one-protein food. He also tolerated Addiction Black Forrest Rabbit & Blueberries. He did not like Wild Calling Rabbit Burrow.

 

[onemeow]

Sorry, I 'm not of much help, except that my kitty has chicken allergy and is doing well on Firstmate Turkey, its a LID, without guar gum/carrageenan and other stuff, 6.8% carb and since you are looking for a turkey canned food.

Ingredients
Turkey, chicken liver, water sufficient for processing, potato, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, minerals: (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, iodine), vitamins: (niacin, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, d-pantothenic acid, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin A supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement), potassium chloride, taurine, kale

 

[goholistic]

Sorry, I 'm not of much help, except that my kitty has chicken allergy and is doing well on Firstmate Turkey, its a LID, without guar gum/carrageenan and other stuff, 6.8% carb and since you are looking for a turkey canned food.

Ingredients
Turkey, chicken liver, water sufficient for processing, potato, calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, minerals: (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, iodine), vitamins: (niacin, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, d-pantothenic acid, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin A supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement), potassium chloride, taurine, kale

Thanks. That food has chicken liver in it, and all chicken parts are off the table for Sebastian for now. If your kitty has a chicken allergy, I find it interesting that he/she is doing well on this food even though it has chicken liver in it. 

 

 

[onemeow]

Oh, sorry, so Sebastian can't have chicken. I know some cats can't even have chicken parts and fat, but mine ok with these. At least no more vomiting and scratching.

 

[goholistic]

My frustration has morphed into intrigue.

I've had Sebastian on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Turkey for 5 days. Last night when I got home from work, he had a NEW rash on the inside of his ear flap! Same left ear, but a different spot. He wouldn't let me get a picture. I compared the BB Turkey with what I was feeding him the last time his ear broke out (H&G Rabbit, Evanger's Rabbit), and the only two ingredients that are the same are guar gum and cassia gum. If he's allergic to guar gum, this is a real problem. It's in everything! 

Starting this morning, I brought the NV LID Turkey back out and he ate it fine. Maybe he just needed a little break from it since he threw it up that one day.

 

[jcat]

That sounds like a real possibility. I found this: Guar Gum and Soy Allergy

Some forms of guar gum contain soy protein that makes up 10 percent of the ingredient. Someone with a soy allergy should also avoid consuming products containing guar gum. ...
If you eat a product containing guar gum that contains soy proteins, you will experience mild to severe allergic reaction symptoms within a few minutes or up to one hour. These symptoms may include vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, cramping, a runny nose, watery eyes, nasal congestion, shortness of breath, wheezing, coughing, chest tightness, hives or skin rashes.

What Is Guar Gum and Can This Common Food Additive Cause Digestive Problems for Children?

Because guar gum may contain traces of soy proteins, eating it can lead to an allergic reaction. Symptoms may include vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, cramping, runny nose, nasal congestion, shortness of breath, wheezing, coughing, chest tightness, hives or skin rashes.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Gosh. If its not one thing its another, eh? According to the website, there are no gums, Kelp or Flax Meal (but Flaxseed Oil) in the NV Turkey, so hopefully this one can be okay  for awhile

I tried the NV Lamb recently, and everyone gobbled this up in short order. Looked and smelled good.

 

[goholistic]

Hmm....  

  Crap. This poses a real problem, as most of the foods I had lined up for the food rotation contain guar gum. I'm going to have to start a new spreadsheet.

 

[jcat]

Perhaps it will turn out to be a blessing in disguise, i.e., if it's guar gum that's causing both the rashes and digestive disorders. You might end up not having to eliminate certain proteins in his diet. :cross:

 

[peaches08]

Perhaps it will turn out to be a blessing in disguise, i.e., if it's guar gum that's causing both the rashes and digestive disorders. You might end up not having to eliminate certain proteins in his diet.

THAT is a really good point!  It wasn't proteins my cats had a problem with when they were on canned.  I never figured out what the probem was exactly (carrageenan? guar gum?), but thankfully meats have been fine.

 

[goholistic]

That is a good point. What is also really interesting is that I looked way back at his prior rotation of foods (pre-pancreatitis). He had a rash in his ear then and I couldn't figure out why. Those foods all had guar gum - Natural Balance and Halo Spot's Stew were his favorites. When we started him on Royal Canin rabbit and green pea prescription food, the rash went away. The RC has no guar gum. The first food we tried when he started refusing RC was H&G Rabbit. He loved it, but after 5-6 days, a rash. He generally did well on RC, but he did continue to have pancreatitis flares, so I'm not sure how much the guar gum affects him gastrointestinally or perhaps the damaged has already been done. 

But here's the other caveat. When I had him on the pork rotation, he was getting Nature's Variety Pork Formula and started scratching his face and neck like crazy. No rash and no guar gum in that food, but something was making him itchy. I had suspected flaxseed or kelp, or maybe it was the salt content as @oneandahalfcats mentioned. 

I think there are multiple things going on. My poor sensitive boy.

The local holistic vet did offer to do allergy testing. I forget what the company is called; the brochure is at home. It is expensive. From what I read about it not being reliable, I declined, even though the vet said it's pretty reliable. If they were reliable, it might just save me from all this headache!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Hmm .. I believe you mentioned at one point that Sebastian was getting probiotics, but what about digestive enzymes? Could it be that on account of the ongoing pancreatitis and possible damage to his digestive system, that he is lacking in some enzymes to properly digest some foods? I know that humans who go through the whipple surgery for pancreatic cancer, post-op they are started on digestive enzymes and stay on this for life to help digest foods.

Below is a link to an article on digestive health in Dogs and Cats, that discusses digestive enzymes. It lists the following symptoms of enzyme deficiency and poor digestion which include: excessive itching, shedding, hair balls, body odor, rash, runny nose, bad breath, diarrhea, constipation, infection and poor immune system.

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/knowledgebase/knowledgebasedetail.aspx?articleid=101

 

[goholistic]

I held off on the digestive enzymes because I've read they are "iffy" for a cat with chronic pancreatitis, and it might be better not to give them unless/until they are needed. "With pancreatitis, [pancreatic] enzymes are activated prematurely in the pancreas instead of later in the small intestine." (Source) With the enzymes already being uncooperative, I suppose the thought is that supplementing with more of them could make things worse. No one really knows, and I would just have to try it. 

  A gentle, plant-based formula might be okay.

It is possible for chronic pancreatitis to cause enough scar tissue that it alters the pancreas' functions and can lead to exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (in which enzymes would have to be supplemented) and/or diabetes mellitus (in which insulin shots would have to be given).

Three out of the four vets I've worked with said they didn't feel that enzymes were a critical component to his health (yet) over some of the other things we are doing. One strongly feels that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." With the fourth, it just never came up in conversation. 

 

[goholistic]

It is quite a challenge to find foods without guar gum. I purchased a few single cans of Lotus Just Juicy Turkey Stew (no guar gum). It was well-received and Sebastian cleans his bowl, so I can at least offer this in rotation with the NV Instinct Turkey. He has expensive taste!

Our three weeks of turkey is almost up, and we're moving on to beef. I could not find any canned buffalo foods without guar gum, and the meat itself for home-cooked is really expensive, so I'm using beef instead. This means I'm only rotating five proteins instead of six from the original list (rabbit, pork, turkey, beef, duck).

I only found ONE (maybe two) single protein beef food without guar gum, and that is Weruva Steak Frites. It uses xanthan gum instead, so I don't know if he's going to have a reaction to that. If he does, I'm screwed with offering beef. It's also very low calorie, which is a problem since I'm trying to keep his weight up. I did see a food by Tiki Cat called Gourmet Carnivore Beef & Liver, which would work, too, but I only see it offered on PetFlow and Amazon. This food isn't even on the Tiki Cat website, so I don't know. Here it is on PetFlow: http://www.petflow.com/product/tiki...ore-grain-free-beef-and-liver-canned-cat-food  

I purchased fresh beef already and froze it, and can cook that up for him supplemented.

I have no idea how he is going to handle beef, as it seems to be too rich for a lot of kitties.

 

[denice]

Guar gum is a tough one to avoid.  Hounds and Gatos has that and cassia gum in it.  That's the one issue with that food.   Hopefully he will do okay with the beef, my IBD kitty can't tolerate it.  I found that out before I even knew what he had was IBD, he was about 2 years old.

 

[goholistic]

Guar gum is definitely almost impossible to avoid. 

I had been mixing the Weruva Steak Frites in with the canned turkey all weekend, and no issues there. Tonight he had the Steak Frites on its own. He likes it, but I don't think it fills him up. It is much lower in calorie than what he usually gets. I also gave him a little cooked meat to start off. Once I'm sure he can handle it, I'll give him more. I ended up buying "Chuck Tender Steak" (that's what it says on the package). 

  He really seemed to like this as well. It is very beefy smelling, as least to me.

 

[ldg]

Oh SNAP. I was just coming to this thread to post about considering guar gum as a potential problem! I'm pretty sure you don't feed anything else with soy - but apparently guar gum is somehow at times combined with soy (but not as a separate ingredient in that it isn't listed separately) so that it is up to 10% soy proteins - or contaminated with trace elements of soy. But this would explain why sometimes guar gum would be a problem and sometimes it wouldn't.

I actually just published this on it: http://catcentric.org/2014/04/14/pet-food-ingredients-to-avoid-guar-gum/

 

[goholistic]

Oh SNAP. I was just coming to this thread to post about considering guar gum as a potential problem! I'm pretty sure you don't feed anything else with soy - but apparently guar gum is somehow at times combined with soy (but not as a separate ingredient in that it isn't listed separately) so that it is up to 10% soy proteins - or contaminated with trace elements of soy. But this would explain why sometimes guar gum would be a problem and sometimes it wouldn't.

I actually just published this on it: http://catcentric.org/2014/04/14/pet-food-ingredients-to-avoid-guar-gum/

Okay...double major weirdness.  

  I literally just found that article and posted the link to it on this thread! 

Sebastian definitely reacts to guar gum. Based on the latest food trials and me documenting everything, he reacts to a food containing guar gum in about 3-5 days by getting a rash in his ear, and it can take up to 2-3 weeks for the rash to go away after stopping the food. But this is all just on the outside. Who knows what's going on inside.

 

[ldg]

Okay...double major weirdness.     I literally just found that article and posted the link to it on this thread! 

Sebastian definitely reacts to guar gum. Based on the latest food trials and me documenting everything, he reacts to a food containing guar gum in about 3-5 days by getting a rash in his ear, and it can take up to 2-3 weeks for the rash to go away after stopping the food. But this is all just on the outside. Who knows what's going on inside.

Oh I'm SO sorry guar gum IS the problem! What a PIA!!!! But at least you know now. :nod:

And :lol3: at .... our respective posts! Yeah - the article just went up last night, I wrote it yesterday. I've been researching problem ingredients for the series. Guar gum really is - or should be - the least problematic of the thickeners. Unlike carrageenan and xanthan gum, it doesn't actually - usually - cause harm.

 

[goholistic]

Oh I'm SO sorry guar gum IS the problem! What a PIA!!!! But at least you know now.

And

at .... our respective posts! Yeah - the article just went up last night, I wrote it yesterday. I've been researching problem ingredients for the series. Guar gum really is - or should be - the least problematic of the thickeners. Unlike carrageenan and xanthan gum, it doesn't actually - usually - cause harm.

The food Sebastian is getting right now uses xanthan gum. It'll be interesting to see if he reacts to that after a few days. I couldn't find much on xanthan gum, actually. This Mercola article didn't seem too opposed to it: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/04/15/xantham-gum.aspx