Best rotation to prevent food allergies

goholistic

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I wasn't sure whether to post this in Cat Nutrition in general, or the Raw & Home-Cooked forum because I'd like input from those folks, as well.

I think Sebastian is prone to food allergies, and this could definitely be a contributing factor to a lot of his issues. He was on a rabbit-only diet for six months, and we think he developed an allergy to the rabbit since I've recently switched him to pork, and he's been doing great. (Actually, he started not to do well after four months on the rabbit, so he may have developed an allergy to rabbit only after four months.) I don't want him to develop an allergy to pork, too, or any other protein for that matter. I would eventually run of things to feed him!

Traditional vets seem to think that they should be on one food until they develop an allergy to it, and then switch them. This doesn't seem very proactive to me. I came across an article on the Mercola website (I can't link to it right now because the site has been down all weekend). I also read an article from Dr. Jean Hofve (http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/knowledgebase/knowledgebasedetail.aspx?articleid=184). It seems they recommend a different protein every 2-4 months for pets prone to developing food allergies. However, some opinions I've read are that it should be different protein every week, or even every day. I'm inclined to meet somewhere in the middle - maybe every two weeks, or every month.

I'm not really sure what direction to take. Sebastian hasn't had any chicken, beef, or fish in six months. I don't think he's ever had lamb or venison. I have no problem rotating in lots of proteins...whatever it takes. But I am nervous about exposing him to every protein I can get my hands on. Then I won't have anything "novel" to fall back on just in case there's a major issue.

The TCM vet I am working with hasn't gotten back to me on this yet. I'm eager to hear her thoughts, but wanted to see what you thought as well. What would you do?
 

marc999

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I'm not sure anyone has the definitive answer, as each cat is going to be different. 

What do I do? 

Proactive.  In a matter of 7 days, I'd likely have gone through chicken, beef, pork,duck or lamb.

Be sure to keep some 'novel' proteins untouched.  i.e. Buffalo, Rabbit,Venison etc....whatever seems most economical and palatable and available.  I would certainly try out all the proteins though, to be sure he/she will eat it.  Then don't use that protein again, unless you have to. 

Other weeks, I use the mystery meats i.e. Grreat Choice Country Dinner, or Mixed Grill - 'by-product' foods.

I don't know if it's right - it's just what I do. I may as well close my eyes when I reach into the stash of canned foods. I will say though, that my guy developed an allergy to Turkey&Giblets rather quickly.  Within 2 weeks of having this cat, he was throwing it up. 
 

oneandahalfcats

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Well, I am inclined to agree with traditional vets to a point, in saying that I think too much rotation
with too many types and brands can be upsetting not only to a cats' digestion, but also to the cat in
general. Cats don't like change in their routine, and if they are finicky to begin with, its better to stick to 2-3 varieties that they like and tolerate well, than to go through the whole spectrum of proteins in an effort to prevent so-called allergies. The other important aspect here is, cats may not be reacting to a meat protein, but something else in the food like an additive or naturally occurring histamine in some foods such as fish, tomatoes, eggs, to name just a few. If it was the NV Rabbit you were feeding, one of the ingredients in this is tomato?

While the symptoms of food allergies and intolerances can be the same, there is a fundamental difference between the two. Food allergies create an automatic physical response to something, whereas an intolerance doesn't necessarily happen right away or involve a physical response, but develops over time. I am inclined to think by what you have explained, that Sebastian has developed an intolerance to the rabbit, rather than an allergy. Intolerances are the result of a lack of enzymes to properly digest a type of food. A little bit of food can be consumed without adverse effects, but too much over a period of time can cause vomiting and diarrhea.

I think one of the other considerations here is that, like people, cats will have or can develop an
aversion to some foods. Does this mean they have an allergy or food intolerance, not necessarily. But the response of vomiting can be a sign that they are finding a particular food to be too rich or some ingredient is not agreeing with them.

Fortunately I have not had any serious problems with food in my cats, but I recognize that things like
chicken, fish, beef and ultra-rich foods like turkey, lamb and duck should be given in moderation. I think its good to serve a small variety of different food every other week, but to stay within the same brand as much as possible. Different diets can contain different ingredients that I think can cause conflicts and this in itself can be upsetting. When feeding each day, I stick to the same brand and type of food.

As a last thought, I think it is very important to determine as much as possible, if what you are dealing with is a true food allergy, food intolerance or just an aversion to a food. You don't want to eliminate something from the diet that might be fixable by going with a different brand of food or with the introduction of enzymes to correct potential intolerances.
 
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goholistic

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Thanks for the responses! I do know the difference between a food intolerance and a food allergy. I have three cats with both. The article I linked to in the my first post explains the two and how an allergy involves the immune system.
I am inclined to think by what you have explained, that Sebastian has developed an intolerance to the rabbit, rather than an allergy.
I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion because I didn't really explain anything.  
  I do not want to go deep into Sebastian's health issues on this thread, but before he was put on the strict rabbit-only diet, he had a rash on his ear flap that wouldn't go away and an ear infection...classic food allergy symptoms. It went away on the rabbit diet. After five months on the rabbit, the rash came back with a vengeance, as well as itching around the face and neck...again, classic food allergy symptoms. At this point, the traditional and integrative vet I am working with both believe it to be a new allergy to the rabbit.

Sebastian also has chronic pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). The cause is typically unknown, but it does make us wonder if food allergies play a part since they involve the immune system and cause inflammation. Just before the rash re-appeared, his pancreatitis was acting up and we couldn't get it under control with meds. It wasn't until I introduced pork into his diet that he seemed to improve. I check the rash every day. It seems to be dissipating on the pork. However, skin involvement takes longer to clear up that GI involvement, which may be why I saw him improve gastrically before the rash went away.

My concern is...if I take the traditional vets approach, Sebastian could develop an allergy to each food I introduce when left on it long term. Soon enough I'll be scouring the yard for bugs just to have something "novel" to feed him! 
 

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All joking aside, bugs might be an idea!  Seriously!  I don't know how to balance it, but it's a good protein.

I don't know what to tell you about how long to stay on a food and allergies/intolerances.  I'll be watching this thread to see what you find.
 

oneandahalfcats

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Thanks for the responses! I do know the difference between a food intolerance and a food allergy. I have three cats with both. The article I linked to in the my first post explains the two and how an allergy involves the immune system.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion because I didn't really explain anything.  
  I do not want to go deep into Sebastian's health issues on this thread, but before he was put on the strict rabbit-only diet, he had a rash on his ear flap that wouldn't go away and an ear infection...classic food allergy symptoms. It went away on the rabbit diet. After five months on the rabbit, the rash came back with a vengeance, as well as itching around the face and neck...again, classic food allergy symptoms. At this point, the traditional and integrative vet I am working with both believe it to be a new allergy to the rabbit.

Sebastian also has chronic pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). The cause is typically unknown, but it does make us wonder if food allergies play a part since they involve the immune system and cause inflammation. Just before the rash re-appeared, his pancreatitis was acting up and we couldn't get it under control with meds. It wasn't until I introduced pork into his diet that he seemed to improve. I check the rash every day. It seems to be dissipating on the pork. However, skin involvement takes longer to clear up that GI involvement, which may be why I saw him improve gastrically before the rash went away.

My concern is...if I take the traditional vets approach, Sebastian could develop an allergy to each food I introduce when left on it long term. Soon enough I'll be scouring the yard for bugs just to have something "novel" to feed him! 
Right. I did see the bit about the rash in the ear flap .. Re. the conclusion of intolerance, if a cat is able to eat a given protein for some time and not have any adverse reactions, then this would signal that they are able to eat that protein to a certain extent and have no problem. However, an intolerance can build up over time for reasons that may have to do with a lack of enzymes. It's going to be hard for anyone I think to give you the right recipe for rotation, as this is a rather unique situation involving more than just a possible food allergy or intolerance?

Typically the cause for pancreatitis is gallstones from the gallbladder, or alcohol and hepatitis (in humans). Medications can play a secondary role, particularly ongoing use of antibiotics and corticosteroids. I don't if the subject of Sebastian's gallbladder has come up, but this would be a question I would be asking my vet. My husband had very acute episodes of pancreatitis, to the point where we almost lost him the last time it happened as the result of a stone that got loose and ended up getting lodged in the pancreatic duct. He spent 12 days without solid food with a tube down his throat to deal with a very inflamed pancreas. He had surgery to remove his gall bladder and has not had any problems since. This was in 2009.
 
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goholistic

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The exact cause of pancreatitis in cats is unknown. His gallbladder has been checked; it is fine.
 

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Thanks for the link to that article by Dr. Hofve, that was interesting. What I find MOST interesting, however, is that she mentions that allergies can become a viscous circle - inflammation causes leaky gut, leaky gut can lead to allergies, allergies cause inflammation, etc. - yet doesn't address at all how to address the leaky gut - apart from reducing the exposure to the current allergans.

Unless I read it too fast?

Funny enough, I've been doing a lot of work on leaky gut over the past week. I personally would include other steps to address that, to stop the cycle of allergies developing due to the gut-related inflammation - and hopefully help the pancreatitis too. Of course, there are other pathways for allergic reactions - but eczema and rashes apparently are indicative of allergies related to leaky gut. As you know, Chumley was treated via TCM for obsessive grooming and violent diarrhea. Interestingly, a large part of his treatment were things that address leaky gut: probiotics, aloe, and slippery elm bark powder.

I don't know if you've made bone broth for Sebastian, and as pork is working for him right now, I don't know if you have the time or inclination - or access to the best ingredients for this, like pig knuckles. But as I know you like to do your research, I'll include links for your consideration. Gelatin, apparently, is a good replacement for homemade bone broth. Great Lakes has grass fed beef gelatin OR the collagen hydrolysate (gelatin before it's cooked, basically).

But I'd be using bone broth or gelatin (or collagen hydrolysate - and gelatin or the collagen can just be sprinkled on the food or mixed in), S. boulardii, slippery elm bark powder and an L. acidophilus supplement. I think you're already using some of these.

For protein rotation, I guess I'd consider switching up every few weeks. It seems going months is a tough target for Sebastian. I personally provide a different protein at each meal, and the cats don't have the same cut of protein, anyway, within at least a two-day period. But several of my cats get bored easily with food, so our rotation schedule is based on that more than anything. But if you can identify 3 or 4 (or 5?) proteins you can use, rotating every few weeks seems like a reasonable approach and target. If there are only 2 or 3 proteins, I might use them for 3 or 4 weeks before rotating. My thinking here is including the amount of time before seeing the same protein back in the diet again may be as important a consideration as to how long the exposure at any given time is. But I agree - I'd "hold back" at least one protein, to have something "in reserve." Though something else to consider is that part of whether or not a protein provokes an allergy may be related to what that animal was fed - so where "chicken" may trigger an allergic response, organic chicken may not. And many do see cooked proteins causing allergic reactions, where those same raw proteins do not cause the allergic reactions (but certainly not always, so that can't be counted on).

:dk:

Here are links you may or may not find helpful. Most are re: people, though everything I've seen on IBD in cats points back to the same problem with the leaky gut/inflammation circle.

http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

Technical: http://www.nature.com/mi/journal/v3/n3/full/mi20105a.html

Relationship of permeability to food sensitivities: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16880015

Why gelatin is anti-inflammatory: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

Interesting discussion of nutrition in management of GI diseases by Dr. Zoran: http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=676846&sk=&date=&pageID=2

The issue of bacterial dysbiosis in cats: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/labs/simpson/docs/Janeczko.pdf

I think you've seen this one, but it's just an overview of probiotics with a short summary of studies, though it does address the issue of human probiotics being effective in animals, strains not being species-specific doesn't seem to matter: http://www.wvc.org/images/session_notes_2013/2013_S22C.pdf

Finally, a technical review of S. boulardii: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2761627/

And a more comprehensive review: http://www.horizonpress.com/cimb/v/v11/47.pdf

Oral treatment with S. boulardii induces modulation of the host cell signalling pathways implicated in proinflammatory response and in hydroelectrolytic secretion, neutralization of bacterial toxins, inhibition of pathogen translocation, stimulation of the host immune response, restoration of intestinal permeability, and stimulation of brush-border membrane enzymes and transporters. Thus, S. boulardii is involved in the restoration of intestinal homeostasis. These beneficial effects are in part mediated by secreted factors such as proteases, phosphatases and polyamines.
 
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goholistic

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Thanks for the input and links, @LDG
  Actually, you're right...now that Sebastian is on pork and not rabbit, I could make a bone broth with pork bones.  
  I do think there is a cycle going on here, and we're slowly but surely getting to the bottom of it. It's kind of frightening to think how much damage food allergies can actually do. 

For protein rotation, I guess I'd consider switching up every few weeks. It seems going months is a tough target for Sebastian. I personally provide a different protein at each meal, and the cats don't have the same cut of protein, anyway, within at least a two-day period. But several of my cats get bored easily with food, so our rotation schedule is based on that more than anything. But if you can identify 3 or 4 (or 5?) proteins you can use, rotating every few weeks seems like a reasonable approach and target. If there are only 2 or 3 proteins, I might use them for 3 or 4 weeks before rotating. My thinking here is including the amount of time before seeing the same protein back in the diet again may be as important a consideration as to how long the exposure at any given time is. But I agree - I'd "hold back" at least one protein, to have something "in reserve." Though something else to consider is that part of whether or not a protein provokes an allergy may be related to what that animal was fed - so where "chicken" may trigger an allergic response, organic chicken may not. And many do see cooked proteins causing allergic reactions, where those same raw proteins do not cause the allergic reactions (but certainly not always, so that can't be counted on).
I'm thinking every 2-3 weeks, as well. I think you hit the nail on the head in that there needs to be enough time before a protein cycles back into the diet, but also not be on it too long to trigger those antibodies Dr. Hofve talks about. Sebastian is a really great eater when he feels good, and he'll eat the same food no problem for a few weeks, so I don't think that's an issue. I am providing some variety in that I am offering him a "matching" home-cooked portion that is supplemented with Balance It. For example, I was giving him cooked rabbit with his canned rabbit. And now I'm offering him cooked pork chops (which he loves) with this canned pork.

The other tricky thing is...is he allergic to rabbit forever? Or will it resolve itself after a significant break? Some say it might. 


Let's look at a possible rotation (sticking with cool/neutral proteins specific to Sebastian's needs):

Pork - 3 weeks

Turkey* - 3 weeks

Bison/Buffalo - 3 weeks

Duck - 3 weeks

Beef - 3 weeks

Rabbit - 3 weeks

Of course, there's no telling whether or not he's going to have a reaction to any of these. He may very well be allergic to duck or beef, but I won't know until he's already eating it. *The reason I have an asterisk next to turkey is because it seems that no one can agree whether it is a warm, neutral, or cool protein. So, I don't really know where it falls.


Some things I can offer either in between proteins, or a couple times a week:

Sardines

Salmon

Clam

Crab

Oyster

Other proteins I'm willing to offer occasionally if I can get them:

Kangaroo

Quail

Goose

Frog

Alligator

"Reserved" proteins:

Venison

Lamb

Pheasant

What do you think?
 

ldg

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Given the darker meats are typically the "yin" meats, I would think turkey LEG would be yin, but probably not breast. I'd include turkey thigh (and if you're ordering from Hare Today, they definitely have boneless turkey thigh chunks - maybe ground turkey thigh, since I think you're cooking??? But with a blender or food processor, I wouldn't think it'd be difficult to turn cooked turkey thigh chunks into "ground."). HT sells whole quail. It would be work getting the meat off the bone though. If you're feeding raw, they do have ground - but if cooking, they don't have boneless. :(

I wonder about llama? HT has that.
And what about goat?
Oh - you're looking for foods you can match with canned.

That looks like a good schedule to me. :nod: And with each at three weeks - that is a nice length of time before seeing the protein back in rotation! :clap: I probably don't even need to say this - but with his history, just make sure you make slow introductions the first time around. ;)

As a side bar... I don't remember - do you use or have you tried slippery elm bark powder to help ease nausea? Lazlo doesn't like SEB because of the texture, but I'm finding that just sprinkling some on his food has eliminated the need for pepcid. So just putting that out there. He's got serious motility issues from the cancer - and hairballs are a problem this year despite the egg yolk and lecithin. :( The SEB - knock wood - appears to have resolved that too.
 

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LDG - Slippery Elm Bark is a wonderful powder.   

I paid all of $4.00 for a small baggy of it and I'm sure it will last me a good year at least.  My thought is to use it once / month, just to grease the pipes.   I initially used it, due to the cat's lack of poop for almost 48 hrs.  This solved it pronto.

The SEB syrup recipe is good for about 4-5 days refrigerated.  The texture is such that you just about need a syringe to suck it up, it slides right off a spoon.  You can imagine what it does inside the gut. 

I'll have to try it myself sometime too for fun - well only if I have to. 
 
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goholistic

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Yes, I did see that HT sold boneless turkey thigh chunks! I could definitely get those...nice and convenient. I also saw bone-in turkey thighs in the grocery store; I would just have to take it off the bone, but I would think that would be a pain. (Using Balance It, I'd have to take the meat off the bone raw, cut into small pieces with a knife, add the supplement, mix well, and then cook.) If I got the whole quail, I would have to hand it over to my bf and say, "Here, get the meat off for me." I think he'd kill me. 


I am primarily looking for meats to match with canned for those three full weeks I am feeding that protein, but I am willing to offer...say...one day or one meal of a non-matching meat before moving on to the next rotation. Is this too much?

As far as slow introductions, maybe I will mix the current protein with the next protein for 2-3 days or so. I did this when I moved him from rabbit to pork. I had no issues when we went to 100% pork.

Oh, yes, I meant to comment on SEB. I did try that in October 2013 when he was having a bad flare that we were having a hard time getting him out of. I did the SEB for four days, but didn't notice a difference. It didn't hurt him, but it didn't help him much either. It stressed him out that I had to syringe it into his mouth. I tried to add it to his food, but he won't eat the food with SEB it in. I could divide the capsule and put it in a smaller gel cap and pill him with it, but then I'm up to five pills a day that I had to shove down his throat. 
The current four gel caps are already packed with stuff (one in the AM, two in the PM, and one right before bed). Since Sebastian has been feeling good and eating well, I am willing to try SEB again in his food and see what happens. Another thought is Marshmallow Root, which I think is a little more palatable. It doesn't work as well as SEB, but it is suggested as a "fair substitute" by Dr. Hofve for most applications. It's mentioned on this UK site as an herbal remedy for IBD in pets (quick search). 
 
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goholistic

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Since Sebastian was technically on pork for three weeks, I went ahead and started transitioning him to canned and home-cooked turkey over the weekend. I purchased turkey thighs and cooked them up with Balance It. He loves the turkey thighs, too. Although, he HATES how boney the Nature's Variety LID Turkey Formula is. I don't know why it's so boney. The pieces are tiny, but very hard and very sharp. I'm looking into a couple other turkey-only canned foods I can alternate.

Okay, the weird thing. So...long story short. He developed a rash on his inner ear flap a few weeks ago, which I conclude is from rabbit, duck, or guar gum. (Again, long story.) I've been avoiding these ingredients. Interestingly, the rash is going away. Slowly, but surely, it is almost gone. HOWEVER, the period when I had him on the NV Rabbit and NV Pork formulas, he started scratching his neck and face something fierce...a sure sign of a food allergy. Something is bothering him. I'm like...okay. So the rash is going away, but something else is making him itchy. Upon looking at the ingredients, my intuition tells me it's the ground flaxseed or dried kelp.  
  He's never had pork before in his life, so I don't think it was the protein. The turkey transition won't include either of these ingredients.

 

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In looking at the ingredients of the NV Pork, there are three ingredients that are forms of, or contain sodium. Salt, Sodium Selenite and Dried Kelp. These ingredients are near the top of the list along with Peas in the Pork. In the NV Rabbit, the sodium is in the middle of the list. I know too much sodium or sodium sensitivity can cause itchiness in people. Could it be that Sebastian is having the same response. Peas are also a known allergen.

I am doing the NV Chicken and note that the salt, sodium, kelp are further down in the list for comparison.

    Pork, Pork Broth, Pork Liver, Tricalcium Phosphate, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Potassium Chloride
    Peas, Carrots, Salt, Dried Kelp, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate,
    Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide), Lecithin, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate,
    Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement,
    Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid), Taurine, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride,
    DL-Methionine, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Artichokes, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Tomato, Blueberries,
    Broccoli, Cabbage, Kale, Parsley

Ground Flaxseeds being a source of omega-3 (albeit not a great source), I would think this would help with allergies?
 
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goholistic

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Thanks. Yes, ultimately, anything can be an allergen. For some reason, I am suspect of the flaxseed and kelp.  
  I tried to do a little research on a flaxseed allergy in cats. It's certainly not common, but possible, more to the flaxseed rather than the flaxseed oil (kind of like fish vs. fish oil). I have heard of cats being allergic to kelp. Since the turkey foods I'm giving him won't contain flaxseed or kelp, it'll be interesting to see if the scratching stops.

The reason I don't suspect peas too much is because he was on "rabbit and green pea" for awhile with no scratching. He didn't start scratching his neck and face until I started him on the NV, which probably has less peas than what he was eating prior. Literally, there will be like 2 or 3 whole peas in a whole 5.5 oz. can of NV. I had opened up a 3 oz. can and there was only 1 green pea in it. I could easily pick them out like I do the carrots. The flaxseed seemed plentiful; I could see it very clearly throughout the food. Who knows. 


The problem is, when I rotate pork back into his diet, I don't know that I'll be able to use the NV Pork if he's sensitive to something in it.
 

oneandahalfcats

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Yes, I did a little reading and there are definite allergies to flaxseed out there .. Hmm. I did notice in some of the other varieties of NV LID, that they have used flaxseed oil or sunflower oil instead of the meal. However, pork doesn't figure into this line, just turkey, lamb and duck. There is also no kelp here. Its weird that the Turkey LID would be so boney which is not something you typically come across in a can? I will have to see if I can find a can and have a look.

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-limited-ingredient-canned-cat-food-turkey

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-limited-ingredient-canned-cat-food-lamb

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-limited-ingredient-canned-cat-food-duck

The thing about peas is that if it is a true allergy, it doesn't take much to set off reactions just from residue alone. But from your explanation, it doesn't sound like peas are the problem which is good.

It will be interesting to see if Sebastian does well on the cooked turkey. My crew seem to be doing well on the NV so far with no issues, except Thomas is doing the S/O for the struvite crystals which may have been from the Wellness we were on shortly before that has a lot of carbs in it.
 
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goholistic

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Exactly! The NV LID formulas all use the flaxseed oil rather than the ground flaxseed. Hmm...I wonder if it's because they know that kitties can have sensitivities to flaxseed and thus omitted it (among other things) in their LID line. 


I don't understand why the NV LID Turkey is so boney, either. I mean, they are small pieces of bone, but a lot of them, so it is very gritty. Sebastian hates that feeling in his mouth. I try to pick out the larger pieces of bone, but I seriously can't do this at every meal. He'll just have to deal with it until I can find another canned turkey formula I am content with (currently on the hunt).
 

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I am pretty sure that the flaxseed meal is cheaper than the flax oil which may be why they are using it in the main NV line, and the oil in the LID. Flax meal is actually what is left over from the oil processing process, so they may get it pretty cheap
I guess there could be worse things in there.

I looked for some of the NV LID today at my local but she doesn't have it yet. Apparently its coming.
 
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I am pretty sure that the flaxseed meal is cheaper than the flax oil which may be why they are using it in the main NV line, and the oil in the LID. Flax meal is actually what is left over from the oil processing process, so they may get it pretty cheap
I guess there could be worse things in there.

I looked for some of the NV LID today at my local but she doesn't have it yet. Apparently its coming.
NV lists "ground flaxseed" in their formulas. Isn't this different from flaxseed meal?

Anyway...I guess it doesn't matter about the NV LID Turkey because Sebastian threw it up this past Friday morning and has refused it since. I tried a few things over the weekend and he settled on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Turkey canned. No kelp, but it has flaxseed.  
  As a side note, it does use potatoes instead of peas. That might be a nice change of pace.
 

oneandahalfcats

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Ground flaxseed and flaxseed meal are one and the same. It can be listed as either one. 

Sorry to hear about the Turkey LID. Hopefully things will go better with the BB - Looks like the potato is the only carb, so that's a plus.


I purchased some Wild Calling Rabbit and it makes the second time I have had to throw this brand of food out! The smell was REALLY bad, like food-gone-bad, bad. I just couldn't do it. So its back to the NV Chicken, and some NV Rabbit for now.
 
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