At Wit's End With Cat

[libra4687]

I have two 15 year old male cats. One of them has advanced kidney failure and needs a lot of care. I work from home and taking care of him is easily a part time job on top of working and taking care of my family responsibilities.

His brother Henry is driving me nuts. Henry has always had litter box issues here and there, but it is getting out of control and I am at my wit's end trying to care for one very sick cat while the other is destroying my home.

Every single morning I wake up to a large pile of feces either on my brand new wood stairs or in the corner of the living room. Some people start their day with a nice steaming cup of coffee. I start mine by cleaning up a nice steaming pile of cat poop. Every. Single. Morning.

Most mornings I will also wake up to puddles of urine. Henry is considerate enough to try to find a rug or something to pee on that can be washed, but will go directly on the wood floor if need be. The other day I was working and heard running water behind me. H. had decided to pee in the corner of the room right on the carpet just a few feet from me!

Every time he starts to have an "episode" we take him to the vet and he always comes back with a clean bill of health. usually his litter box episodes last for only a few weeks and are triggered by something (moving houses, moving the box, etc). This time it has been going on for 2 months and is steadily getting worse. We moved homes but it was over a year ago already so he should be used to the new house. There have been no other changes.

We took him to the vet again and she said H. is in the very early stages of kidney disease but that it shouldn't be causing box issues. Otherwise his health is fine.

We started using the ridiculously expensive cat attract litter a few years ago and that seemed to help for a while. H. has a sensitivity to baking soda and will not use any litter if it has baking soda in it. He will also not use any scented litter at all.

I wonder if cat attract changed their formula recently?

I scoop the litter box every day. We have 2 litter boxes we keep in a closet and the closet smells awful. We installed a fan that pushes air into the garage and it helped a little but I don't know what else to do since the usual litter stench removal method, baking soda, isn't an option for us. I sweep and clean the floors in there a few times a week. I also dump out all the litter and get completely fresh litter every month or so. Doing it more than that isn't financially an option for us due to the high cost of cat attract litter. Between work, taking care of home chores, and caring for the other cat, I just don't have time to be scooping litter more than once a day and stay sane so that isn't an option either. We think the smell might bother him but don't know what else to do in there. However, the closet doesn't smell any worse now than it did 4 months ago when he was using it just fine.

The boxes are down a flight of stairs and we often seem him standing at the top of the stairs looking down forlornly. I will usually urge him to go down there when I see him do that and most of the time he will use the box if I'm standing there. H. does not have any mobility problems. His joints and muscles are in great condition so physically going up and down the stairs isn't a problem for him.

We don't want to put H. in a cage all night and most of the day but I purchased one today because I just cannot deal with puddles of feces and urine around my house.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, can anyone recommend an unscented clay litter that has no baking soda or other additives? Every litter I find has baking soda or something else added to it that H. will not use.

 

[Etarre]

Are you absolutely sure that Henry isn't experiencing any pain using the stairs? I have heard that it's very difficult to detect conditions like arthritis in cats because they hide pain so effectively, and from what you've described, it does seem like he's trying to tell you something about those stairs. You might consider placing litter boxes on multiple levels of the house as an enticement, especially in spots where he tends to have frequent accidents just to see if it makes any difference.

Good luck! I had an elderly cat with litter box issues, too (caused by a health problem) and I know how frustrating it can be.

 

[ArtNJ]

Bite the bullet and try a box up stairs. If you put a mat underneath it, a box can be ok even on carpet. 15 is old ... just because the cat moves great when motivated doesn't mean there aren't issues that make going down to the box a bother.

So basically I'm with Etarre here -- I think cats can easily fool you into thinking they are 100% physically, but 15 year old cats are generally like 75+ year olds -- they will usually have some age-related issues even if they seem to act normally. You definitely have linked this to stress pretty well via past behavior, but that doesn't mean its only stress or stress in this instance. Still, given the link to stress, have you tried any calming products? Also, assume you use an enzyme cleaner?

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! The closet stinks, youre right, why would your cat want to use a litter box in a place that smells so bad?
Please, as mentioned, consider moving the boxes out, and find where, that works for your cat.
Preferably upstairs. I made the mistake once of forcing a cat to go downstairs, and because she loved me, she did even though I now know it hurt to climb the stairs back up.
The cat attract isn't helping, I'd find a less expensive litter.

Number two, about that smell. Please consider canned food, different from the brand you're currently feeding.

Number three, as mentioned, try a calming product, there are a lot on the market besides feliway. Your cat is stressed from the other cats illness and your stress about that. If nothing else try some chamomile tea from the tea bags it will help you all!! relax. If you can play the app Relax My Cat too.

Puppy pee pads can help while this gets straightened out and also, I don't remember if you said if you're using an enzymatic cleaner but that's the thing to use.

Please please don't cage your cat. If necessary, put down some towels in a room, with litter boxes et al and your cat and keep it contained that way until things are better.

 

[basschick]

actually my day starts the same way - poop on the floor, sometimes 2 or 3 piles including 1 of diahrrea, and pee in the box and on the floor. sometimes, like this morning, HK wakes me up mrowing before he goes as an extra added bonus. our HK is going on 20, and he often can't make it to the box before he has to go. sometimes, because of his arthritis, he can't even get up - he just goes where he is, then gets up and leaves. luckily for me, we don't have carpet. after months of this, we have our little poop cleaning set up ready to go to clean the floors. but there are still many things i'd rather wake up to

i agree with the others - keeping the cat boxes in a stinky place isn't going to make the cats want to pee there. it may keep the smell away from your house, but if your bathroom reeked, wouldn't you want to go somewhere that didn't smell terrible?

also if one of the cats is on medication, the other may not want to pee after smelling the medication in the urine - we had that situation when jeep was on meds for his heart.

 

[KarenKat]

I thought I was the only one with pre-coffee daily poop! Trin has IBD (and he was declawed ). You can tell if his stomach is upset because he will start pooping and then walk. If he is having more discomfort it will be next to the box. We have litterboxes on every floor, and the one that his hidden in a little alcove is used the least. We put mats underneath all of them to help cleanup.

At this point we understand he is doing this out of discomfort and we need tk adapt to him. It sucks, but it's our job as guardians.

Also, make sure to use an enzymatic cleaner for the urine or he will keep smelling it and going in the same spot.

 

[Jcatbird]

All great advice! You don’t mention the size of your litter box. Does it have high sides for kitty to step over? One with lower side walls may help. Also, do your cats both use the same boxes? If one cat is sick, especially if there are odors, your other cat will not like sharing. Even after scooping the cats can detect odors we don’t always smell. I have multiple cats here and I provide two boxes per cat. I find they prefer to urinate in one and poop in the other. They don’t share unless there is a mess in their own box. It may sound like you use more litter but it actually comes out about the same since you don’t have to scoop three or four times a day. Another tip for them is that I often bring in leaves and a little black soil for picky cats. Pine needles as well. Not only does it cut the smell but the cats seem to enjoy it. At least most of them. Might be worth a try. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I have had similar issues and it is frustrating. I assume both are neutered. That is important to prevent bathroom issues. One last thought, if Henry has no health problems then he may be needing a little petting and snuggle time. I know you have been focused on trying to keep up with things but , just like children, sometimes they notice the sibling gets attention a lot and they don’t. Try just a quick snuggle here and there. At least he will be reminded that you love him in spite of his problems and it is possible he might feel a little better. I do agree that the boxes need to be closer to the kitties. At 15 they are feeling their age. They never want to show pain to us. Experts at hiding it. Just don’t give up. There is a solution other than caging kitty. Puppy pads are cheap and easy to clean up. Anything is better than the rest of his life in confinement. I don’t know if my litter has baking soda but I use Purina Tidy Cat lightweight. Try calling the companies and asking them if they have a product you can use. Their phone numbers are listed on their packages. I have gotten good results any time I call. Keep posting. Lots of people here will have ideas that might help. I hope you and the kitties will be okay.

 

[libra4687]

Thanks for replying everyone!

Henry's health is very good for his age. The vet couldn't believe the good condition of his joints, bones, and muscles. He has no problem running up and down the stairs when he's playing or when he sees the door open and wants to try to escape out the front door.

The litterboxes are pretty large and have low sides so they should be easy to get into.

There is absolutely no where to put the litterboxes upstairs. We have a small condo where the "downstairs" is the entrance and you walk up a flight of stairs to get into the home. Unless I want to put the litterbox directly in the middle of the living room, there is no where to put it. I have clients come over and I cannot have them smelling cat poop and pee while working with me.

"Puppy pads are cheap and easy to clean up. "
-But where do I put the puppy pads, in the middle of the floor and just let him go where he wants? Having a cat pee or poop wherever he wants in my home is not a solution for me.

The other cat is only on medication as needed so it isn't every day or even every other day. He was on the same medication (as needed) months ago when Henry had no problem using the box. Something triggered this and we don't know what.

"Please consider canned food, different from the brand you're currently feeding."
He already eats a wide variety of canned food. We rotate food every day because they will both stop eating if they get sick of the same food. We feed low phosphorus food to slow down the progression of the kidney disease.

" One last thought, if Henry has no health problems then he may be needing a little petting and snuggle time. I know you have been focused on trying to keep up with things but , just like children, sometimes they notice the sibling gets attention a lot and they don’t."

This could be it. Henry is a very emotionally sensitive cat. We will try to have some Henry snuggle time alone every day.

Can anyone suggest a particular litter with no baking soda or additives? Also a way to deodorize the closet without using baking soda?

 

[Alicia88]

Isn't there some kind of litter that is made with newspaper?

 

[Jcatbird]

Clay litter is probably okay but i’m not sure without reading the label. I can tell you two things I use to absorb moisture and odor that are natural but it requires leaving them for awhile and you might need to figure out how to put them down, but they might clear the closet odor. White rice. It may require changing it out a number of times and may or may not work to get the smell out of the closet. Afterwards dispose of it so nothing can eat it. Eating uncooked rice can cause it to swell internally in birds and such. That’s why people have stopped throwing rice at most weddings. The other thing is salt. It won’t deodorize but will absorb. Especially if kitty pees on fabric. ( test fabric for color fastness) Cover the pee in salt and it will pull it back out. It takes a pile of salt but it works. You will see the salt turn darker or yellow and when left long enough it becomes like a crust as it dries. When done you just break the crust and pull it up, vacuuming the residue. I would not want the kitties to always walk in it though. Bad for their paws. As for a place to put a litter box, I understand that it can’t be seen or smelled. I bought a cheap cabinet with a door and cut a cat sized opening in one side. It helps contain the smell and the cats like the privacy. You might put this in your closet if it won’t work elsewhere. I have one in my bathroom. I have an automatic deodorant sprayer on a timer. Might work for you too if there is space in your bathroom. I got the cabinet at a yard sale. Actually I guess it is an older side table.I put a little curtain over the opening. I also use a spray in places I do not want the cats to disturb. Cats don’t like oranges. This is orange oil. The kitties stay away from it. I find a bowl of sliced citrus of any kind keeps them away. When I know someone is coming I slice some up and the house smells nice as well as the kitties staying away. Just some options. I hope the snuggling will solve things though. I think all kitty owners have moments where they have to find solutions to odor issues. Keep posting. Others will have more ideas. I read in one post about some enzymatic cleaner. I have heard of that before. I would check into that as well. Just so you know, I have one cat that gets his feelings hurt and pees on something right in front of me to let me know. At first I jumped through all these same hoops. I was very worried. It is usually a health or pain issue. I got lucky with that one. He wanted attention. Keep in my That this was the exception to the rule. Keep an eye on Henry for any other issues. One question. Did this coincide with changing to a kidney safe food for the other cat?

 

[basschick]

dr elsey's has no baking soda (baking soda litter destroyed our hardwood floor) or chemicals and is the lowest dust clay litter we've used. it clumps firmly and it also seems to keep the odor down.

even if the other cat is only on meds as needed, unless you thoroughly clean or replace your litter boxes AND the areas they're in, cats - who have very sensitive senses of smell - can still smell those medications.

HK has always been picky, and changes his favorite flavors at odd intervals. on any given day, we feed him up to 10 different flavors. he's very thin as his IBD keeps him from digesting part of his food, and since he loves to eat, it works out pretty well for him these days.

if the closet has the smell in the paint or wood or floor, you won't be able to get rid of the small 100%. but do try one of the enzyme cleaners for cat poop and pee.

good luck!

 

[Furballsmom]

What goes in comes out. Granted you said that the stink wasn't causing problems previously and that something specific triggered his reluctance, but that smell is still an issue. If the food going in is causing stomach issues, the poop and pee will stink, never mind medication. Boxes that are cleaned daily shouldn't stink like this. That's why I suggested different brands of food.

So, with that said and the low phosphorus food is the menu, have you considered adding freeze dried treats that are novel proteins? Goat milk? Have you considered probiotics, Tummyworks or Animal Essentials Plant and Probiotics etc. Address the stink problem at the source.

By the way, what are the brands of food you're using?

Vinegar maybe, charcoal very probably are good odor absorbers.
You could contact Chewy.com, or Only Natural Pet for further advice regarding litter with no baking soda.

The suggestion of puppy pee pads is to deal with the already existing problem of poop in a corner or on a stair, that you see, to quote you, every single morning. When you have a cat consistently going in a certain location, put a puppy pad down IN THAT LOCATION so that cleanup is easier. Or, as already mentioned, contain your cat in a room with several litter boxes and see if that will help your cat to use them consistently and to help him find that using a litter box isn't a scary thing.

While you're doing talking with chewy or Only Natural Pet, obtain one of these below to address the other problem of stress. You said something triggered this, so again, since something may have happened to scare him in that closet, or to scare him when he was downstairs, or while he was actually pooping or peeing -- and here you don't know what, so, attempt to address the problem through a calming product....;
Let me give you this info of some of the many over the counter products;
There is Zylkene, Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.
Also Thunderease has diffusers.
Some people are using CBD oil.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course amazon and chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo.

There are a couple of recent discussions about calming items, here's the link to one thread. Post #6 in this has a link to the second discussion.
Calming Treats?

 

[ExoticCatnip149]

buy some more litter boxes! Put them in the areas where they go (inappropriately) now. Have you tried newspaper or even rice? They can be changed every week.

You could also try cbd oil for both cats. It works, trust me. There's a company where I buy mine from, Dr. Hemp Dog, and aside from having a product that is what it says it is, they are a stand up company and will help you along the way.

They're worth the shot!

best of luck

I have two 15 year old male cats. One of them has advanced kidney failure and needs a lot of care. I work from home and taking care of him is easily a part time job on top of working and taking care of my family responsibilities.

His brother Henry is driving me nuts. Henry has always had litter box issues here and there, but it is getting out of control and I am at my wit's end trying to care for one very sick cat while the other is destroying my home.

Every single morning I wake up to a large pile of feces either on my brand new wood stairs or in the corner of the living room. Some people start their day with a nice steaming cup of coffee. I start mine by cleaning up a nice steaming pile of cat poop. Every. Single. Morning.

Most mornings I will also wake up to puddles of urine. Henry is considerate enough to try to find a rug or something to pee on that can be washed, but will go directly on the wood floor if need be. The other day I was working and heard running water behind me. H. had decided to pee in the corner of the room right on the carpet just a few feet from me!

Every time he starts to have an "episode" we take him to the vet and he always comes back with a clean bill of health. usually his litter box episodes last for only a few weeks and are triggered by something (moving houses, moving the box, etc). This time it has been going on for 2 months and is steadily getting worse. We moved homes but it was over a year ago already so he should be used to the new house. There have been no other changes.

We took him to the vet again and she said H. is in the very early stages of kidney disease but that it shouldn't be causing box issues. Otherwise his health is fine.

We started using the ridiculously expensive cat attract litter a few years ago and that seemed to help for a while. H. has a sensitivity to baking soda and will not use any litter if it has baking soda in it. He will also not use any scented litter at all.

I wonder if cat attract changed their formula recently?

I scoop the litter box every day. We have 2 litter boxes we keep in a closet and the closet smells awful. We installed a fan that pushes air into the garage and it helped a little but I don't know what else to do since the usual litter stench removal method, baking soda, isn't an option for us. I sweep and clean the floors in there a few times a week. I also dump out all the litter and get completely fresh litter every month or so. Doing it more than that isn't financially an option for us due to the high cost of cat attract litter. Between work, taking care of home chores, and caring for the other cat, I just don't have time to be scooping litter more than once a day and stay sane so that isn't an option either. We think the smell might bother him but don't know what else to do in there. However, the closet doesn't smell any worse now than it did 4 months ago when he was using it just fine.

The boxes are down a flight of stairs and we often seem him standing at the top of the stairs looking down forlornly. I will usually urge him to go down there when I see him do that and most of the time he will use the box if I'm standing there. H. does not have any mobility problems. His joints and muscles are in great condition so physically going up and down the stairs isn't a problem for him.

We don't want to put H. in a cage all night and most of the day but I purchased one today because I just cannot deal with puddles of feces and urine around my house.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, can anyone recommend an unscented clay litter that has no baking soda or other additives? Every litter I find has baking soda or something else added to it that H. will not use.

 

[danteshuman]

Hi I know right now you must be exhausted and frustrated. I think you have some great advice above.

I will add if you can't add a litter box in the living room, can you add a screen door at the top of the stairs? That way he only goes in the living room with close supervision.

 

[Jcatbird]

You are getting some great information here. Cats don’t do things for no reason. They are smart and they like to be clean with their potty habit’s. Mother Nature dictates that they avoid leaving potty odors. If they leave their scent for predators to find then they will not survive. They cover their bathroom area outside and move it over a bit every time they go. If they leave an area entirely then something is wrong. Furballsmom makes good points. I especially like the one about addressing the smell at the source. If the smell is that bad there is a reason. That is why I wondered if the problem started around the same time you put Henrys’ brother on the special diet. I would address the fluid, food and stress issues if you are convinced it is not health. Maybe that will solve the odor and potty issues and the worry and constant clean up will end. I hope something in these messages will work for you. I think you are a great kitty parent to be giving such loving care to the brothers.

 

[libra4687]

"By the way, what are the brands of food you're using?"
We mostly feed Science Diet (about 10-15 different varieties), Royal Canin, and Wellness. They eat a rotation of about 20 different foods.

I'm really surprised people here are shocked that our litter box closet smells bad and think it is because of some health or food issue. My boyfriend has had both of these cats since the day they were born. He says the litterbox has always smelled very bad. I thought litterboxes smell in general? They are places where cats use the bathroom. I've never gone into a cat owner's home that didn't smell at least a little unless the home was very large and they could put the box(es) in a basement corner or something. You can always smell the box a little. The fact that we can't use baking soda doesn't help, but I have some activated charcoal and may try that.

" put a puppy pad down IN THAT LOCATION"

We tried that, but with paper towels instead of puppy pads. I feel like it just encourages him because it says "PEE HERE!" He actively looks for soft places to pee so I don't want to encourage him at all.

"can you add a screen door at the top of the stairs?"

No. You walk into the home through the front door and directly up the stairs. At the bottom of the stairs is a closet (the litter closet) and entrance to the garage. The living room and all rooms are located upstairs.

 

[libra4687]

So for the past 2 mornings there has been no poop or pee.

Here's what I've been doing: I clean out the boxes late at night. Then I pull them out of the closet and sweep and spray the floor down and wipe it up. It only takes a few minutes and deodorizes the closet somewhat. Then I put them back and encourage Henry to walk down the stairs on his own and go into the closet so he can see for himself that it is clean.

It looks like he has been going in the box for the past 2 days. 2 days is not long enough to say the problem is solved but it is promising. I am glad that this problem is behavioral and not a health thing.

 

[Timmer]

Well a thought: if you scoop the boxes daily they shouldn't smell that bad at a ll. Are you using a clumping litter? Target sells their brand of unscented cat litter and there is no baking soda in it. I use that. There are other brands out there too. I think Fresh Step now makes one that is unscented without baking soda. Also, do you scrub out the litter boxes occasionally with bleach? I do. Maybe once every two weeks I dump the litter into a bag, scrub the pan with hot water and bleach, dry it out and put the litter back in with fresh litter.

A good enzyme cleaner would help the spots where he has gone. Anti Icky Poo is what I have used in the past for my cat who used to spray.

I hope you get things figured out!!!

 

[ArtNJ]

Closets typically don't have air vents, and therefore typically have poor air circulation. Its a potentially challenging location for a litter box, especially if you don't leave the door all the way open. I agree that with a decent clumping litter, the litter box shouldn't have a really bad odor unless the cat has been in there recently. We use fresh step multicat formula.

I will note that people have vastly different noses and my wife routinely smells stuff I just can't. But my guess is that this is partly a ventilation issue.

I get the appeal of hiding a box in the closet, but add a partially closed door and its almost certainly an issue.

 

[Timmer]

Yes, ventilation, and another thing, I know my cats always like to scratch around at all angles from outside the box, so if the closet isn't that big, it could be frustrating to the cat.
If only they could talk!