at my whits end with my cat!

[kittipie]

Toileting issues... So quick background! I got my two cats nearly 2 years ago, they are from the same litter, my boy (V) and my girl (B) both have been neutered/spayed they came to me at 8 weeks old V was happy using the litter tray B was not, I bought a 2nd tray the next day in case it was the height or something I noticed she would get in but then climb out and just wee on the floor. As time passed I kept trying different litters, different trays (ended up with 6 in the end all over the house) I thought when she was 5 months old I had hit the jackpot as she was no longer doing her business on the floor until one night I noticed her tail sticking out of my wardrobe to open it and find she had been using the empty section as her litter tray! I cleaned the area immediately with an enzyme cleaner to break down the urine, this triggered me to check the whole house and needless to say I found out the whole house hand become her litter tray!!!!
Its now been near 2 years and no matter what I've done (still trying different litter, different food, different trays, many trips to the vets to check for UTI or medical issues of which she has none) and she's using my entire house as a litter tray. I've tried over and over again to retrain her to use the litter and just when you think she's got it you find a huge puddle of wee somewhere. Her latest being my glass TV stand (I have no idea how) she has litrally no "preferred" spot she wee's on laminate flooring/carpet/glass table/tv stand/ cat tree/rug/our coats (she pulls them off the coat rack)/shoes/next to the fridge/boxes/on top of my printer/my desk/my husbands wires!!
Shes constantly attacking her brother, you hear him scream with pain and find tufts of his fur ripped out, she walks around the house meowing loudly and when you prevent her acessing rooms (so upstairs is now restricted to her as today she went and weed right next to my husband) and as im typing this she had just deicded to wee all over my unit!

I dont know what to do anymore ive tried everything, ive followed vets reccomendations ive joined so many groups on facebook for help that ive lost count. My landlord is going mental at me because shes weeing everywhere! (i have somone come out on a weekly basis to clean my carpets and he costs £25 a time) my sofa is being picked up and taken to the dump because it is soaking in cat pee (its a foam and fabric sofa so its just absorbed it into the foam) my house is full of plug in airfresheners with the pet odor things. Nothing has changed with her routine, theres no new pets/people ive not redecorated or painted, ive not changed my washing powder brand etc

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. So sorry though for the circumstances that brought you here. That sounds beyond frustrating.

Two years is a long time, and not sure how to break her habit now.

I am wondering, though, about her not getting along with / attacking her brother, and thinking that might have something to do with it.

Is it just pee that she goes outside the box? Or poop as well.

One thing that comes up on occasion that might be something to consider is Crate Training for litter box issues.

There used to be a website with details, but the link is no longer working, but I did find this one:
Can You Crate Train a Cat? | Petfinder

There are also a couple older TCS threads where members tried crate training, with mixed results.

Here are the links if you are interested:
About To Start Crate Training For My Extremely Litter Box Averse Cat
Crate Training My Cat

There's also kitty diapers/stud pants if you can't solve the problem:
New Stud Pants for Sprayer

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. As rubysmama said - this is now habit for her after 2 years. And, I also thought about the two cats' relationship - has she always attacked her brother all this time, or is this a newer development? Good question about the pee vs. poop too - might play a role in the solution as well.

All of the surfaces you mention are not grainy like litter, so I would suggest you try puppy pee pads - both inside a low sided cardboard box lid and just on the floor by themselves.

If the health checks have included ruling out bladder inflammation and/or crystals - both of which can exist without a UTI - then your next step might be to look into CBD oil to help. I don't generally like to suggest such a thing, but it might be something you could talk to your vet about as a possibility.

 

[kittipie]

She wees/poops outside her litter tray, I've tried puppy pads/toilet training pads for kids, and she still goes elsewhere. she's always attacked him sometimes its quite brutal I've had him limping because she bit so hard into his foot she made him bleed.
She's perfectly healthy, we tried CBD in case it was stress but to no avail. Vet believes she wants to be a single cat but if i re home her he will be depressed and unhappy and id not want to put either of them through that

 

[rubysmama]

So she never ever uses the litter box?

Does your vet do cat boarding? Just wondering if you boarded her for a couple days, and she was stuck in a cage, with a litter box, if she'd use it.

 

[kittipie]

No she never does, she will go to it and pull litter out of it so i assumed it was an issue with the box so i bought a few different types and even used an old cardboard box but she just pulls the litter out and walks away....Unfortunatly the vet doesnt have boarding, when my boy was being done he was away for a full day and she was perfectly happy and used the litter tray (ive watched them carefully he doesnt bully her or prevent her using the trays or eating etc she actually does it to him, if she sees hes in the litter tray she attacks him) Its got the the point he try to avoid her! ive found him sleeping in the kitchen on the cold floor because she was sleeping near his cat bed..
im at the point of wondering do i re-home her

 

[rubysmama]

So it really seems like her brother's existence is part of the issue. I wonder if it's smelling his scent in the litter box.

Is there anyway you could set up an area with a litter box just for her, that her brother couldn't get to?

Maybe a room, or a closet that you could put a cat flap door in, that was only accessible by a cat wearing an e-collar? I know it sounds convoluted, but maybe she just wants a private bathroom of her own.

Something like these, but with an electronic cat flap door:
hidden litter box ideas - Google Search

Rehoming her, of course, is an option, but not sure how many people would want to adopt her, with her litter box issues.

 

[kittipie]

she has her own bathroom area that he has no access too, they both have 2 trays each

 

[kittipie]

Update** She causally walked into my study room (me and husband have our own study rooms, mine basically a box room with just my desk/pc and chair in it) I thought it was raining checked my window...nothing turned round, and she was looking at me while weeing on my floor WTF I'm so stressed over her!! every litter tray has been cleaned and changed today I've gone over the house cleaning with the enzyme cleaner multiple times and I've just spent 10 minutes scrubbing my floor.

 

[Sylvia Jones]

I think I would set up a large cage big enough for litter box ,food and sleeping. See if the confined space helps. Then slowly start letting her out as she uses the litter box

 

[kittipie]

tried that all she did was wee all over her bed in the food/water bowls. tried confining her to the bathroom again same issue, we tried months of confinement (letting her out to play etc not 24/7 locked away) but she never progressed. My vet told me i was wasting my time, that when they had her for a few days she would wee everywhere, even during her health check up she weed on the table then weed in her carry case knowing she would have to sit in it until i got her home.

 

[Sylvia Jones]

Have you discussed with your vet putting her on some calming medication to see if it could help?

 

[kittipie]

weve tried feliway, CBD, calming treats, calming collar and calming spray. Even changing her diet.

 

[Yodasmom]

Honestly, you’ve tried for a lot longer than I would have. If she used the litter box while the boy cat was gone for a day, then i think she needs to be an only cat. I would start reaching out to cat rescues for help in finding her a new home.
And this may not be popular, but even if you have to euthanize her if no home can be found, you still did the best you could.

 

[rubysmama]

weve tried feliway, CBD, calming treats, calming collar and calming spray. Even changing her diet.

What about Prozac? I've seen that prescribed on occasion, however, it might have been more for stress. Though maybe your girl is stressed.

I've never used one, and honestly am skeptical of their skills, but a couple members have used animal communicators and found them to be somewhat helpful. Maybe one could ask your cat why she won't use the litter box.

Here's a couple older threads on the topic, if you're interested.
My experience with an animal communicator
Animal Communicator Feedback?

 

[kittipie]

My husband is refusing to let me re home her (he has attachment issues) This morning I woke up and there was no wee upstairs, saw I had some post (mail) on the floor went to pick it up and it was soaked in wee :/ Vet has said she isn't stressed, so would never give her anything like Prozac
I looked into a behavioural specialist but I can't afford that. So I guess im going to look at some cat nappies (diapers)

 

[Sylvia Jones]

I might see another vet for a second opinion on the need for stress meds You have tried Everything els except diapers as you said. It would be a shame for both the kitty and you to not at least give it a try. I feel so bad for you guys You have tried sooo hard to help her. Please keep us updated

 

[rubysmama]

Vet has said she isn't stressed, so would never give her anything like Prozac

Have you tried a cat only vet? If you want to look into cat only vets, here a link to search for one in your area. Just be sure you choose "Feline Only" in the Practice Type Drop Down menu.

Find a Veterinarian and Practice | The Cat Community

Also, here's a TCS thread about Prozac for spraying - experiences

 

[Jcatbird]

I am so sorry! I know the stress must be wretched. I was going through the thread and maybe I missed it but I had a couple of thoughts. Three actually. One is, do you put a deep layer of litter in the boxes. The height of the amount of litter can be a factor. Some kitties like it so deep their paws never touch anything but litter and others prefer a feel of digging the bottom of the pan.
Second, have you tried more of a very flat pan? Something similar to a baking sheet? I would try it with litter, without and with a puppy pee pad.
The other thought I had is that maybe some different type of litter or not litter at all but something like shredded paper or even shredded fabric. Texture can be an issue and it seems she prefers smooth surfaces.
I know you said she is healthy and her urine was checked. Were her paws, legs and hips checked. I almost get the feeling she is trying to demonstrate that she is in pain. Cats just don’t do these things without a reason and I know this has been a puzzle but it’s not the first time I have come across this very problem.Lashing out at her brother leans me towards this possibility as well.
I have had long discussions over a period of time with others as we tried to solve behavior issues. Each time it seemed to be bad behavior but in each case we did find a cause. I’m hoping that a cause and solution may still show up for you.

 

[kittipie]

Seen 3 different vets (1 was because my original vet was sick and not in work and the other was for a second opinion) full health check done she is perfectly fine there're no issues with her at all (claws/pads/hips/bladder/eyes everything is fine and functioning the way they should) I've tried many types of litter including puppy pads/kids training pads, newspaper etc it doesn't matter if I fill the litter up deep or shallow either way she doesn't use it I've tried cardboard boxes/baking tray/roasting tray. I swayed towards her being in pain but after a trip and a fortune later to the emergency vet (I couldn't get a normal appointment, and she had spent near a full day weeing all over the house) they said there was nothing medically wrong with her, no pain no uti no anything. She jumped from the examining table to his desk and weed on his keyboard then walked back like nothing had happened. He suggested behavioural problems and that it was almost like she was asserting dominance. We cannot have friends to the house because she will go over, and we on them! (A friend came and stayed with us for a few days, and she weed in his bag with his clothing in, weed in his shoe and pooped on his coat)