Asthma & Congestive Heart Failure

[emilyodette]

My baby girl, Lily, is 1 years old and had some coughing issues. I researched on my own and saw it looked exactly like cats who are having an asthma attack. She was diagnosed with asthma and the vet and we’ve done everything to keep her from having attacks. She had an x ray for this a month ago. She only had 1-2 attacks since then.
On Sunday afternoon I came home and noticed her breathing was off. Took her to the emergency vet and they gave oxygen and x rays and said she has a slightly enlarged heart and fluid around/in(?) her lungs. Suspected congenistive heart failure. From what I’ve read she is in stage 4 - labored breathing, some raspiness, tires easily, etc. She was given meds to manage this and I took her home because I had a cat emergency last year which ended up with 3 days of specialists, scared & alone, no answers, & sudden death as soon as I arrived (died in my arms when I came to see her). So, she’s been home and saw her primary vet this morning. He said she needs to see a cardiologist. Appt for that is today at 3pm but it’s an hour away. I hope she can take the stress of the long car ride.
She gets up every couple hours or so and eats a little and drinks a tiny bit and wants to play so badly but I try to keep her calm. She seems fairly happy.
I have been seriously considering in home euthanasia because of the risks she is facing right now- sudden heart attack, respiratory attack, clots, etc. which are extremely painful and traumatic. I’ve read they can last an hour and the vet told me when & if this occurs there is nothing I can do other than hold her. I’m hoping by 3pm she is still stabilized but if she begins to decline should I call an in home service? At this point the vet said no, give her a chance and let’s see what’s going on and how treatable it is. But I’m terrified for her to have a sudden and extremely painful death.

 

[Jem]

I'm so sorry about your kitty. I had a cat with congestive heart failure, his was caused by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. We did everything possible for ours, and although treatment only extended his life for three months (he was in really bad shape), it was well worth it. Even though his heart wasn't able to recover with the medications, simply having the fluid removed from his lungs and chest gave him a new lease on life.
I honestly can't tell you what you should do, but I know I would still try. I would want to know what I'm dealing with before making any decisions. You say that right now she is stable, eating, drinking and playful. To me, that sounds like a cat who is not ready to go yet, but you know your cat best. Hopefully she does not take a sudden decline, and you are able to get her to the cardiologist.
I know I'm probably not being very helpful, but wanted to let you know, that I know and understand your fears. I'm thinking of you and your kitty. I hope you get the answers you need. Sending you positive thoughts!

 

[emilyodette]

Yes my dad wants to try everything as well but I wanted to make sure she wouldn’t be living out her remaining time, after full diagnosis, in pain. She’s breathing almost normally this morning and still in good spirits but will only gobble up treats instead of her food. Hopefully her next dose of syrup will make her drink more water. She got in the litter box twice but did not use it, but she didn’t drink much the night before. Thank you again it really helps and I appreciate it. I am so sorry you had to go through this and I hope our babies meet in kitty heaven when the time comes for Lily.

I'm so sorry about your kitty. I had a cat with congestive heart failure, his was caused by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. We did everything possible for ours, and although treatment only extended his life for three months (he was in really bad shape), it was well worth it. Even though his heart wasn't able to recover with the medications, simply having the fluid removed from his lungs and chest gave him a new lease on life.
I honestly can't tell you what you should do, but I know I would still try. I would want to know what I'm dealing with before making any decisions. You say that right now she is stable, eating, drinking and playful. To me, that sounds like a cat who is not ready to go yet, but you know your cat best. Hopefully she does not take a sudden decline, and you are able to get her to the cardiologist.
I know I'm probably not being very helpful, but wanted to let you know, that I know and understand your fears. I'm thinking of you and your kitty. I hope you get the answers you need. Sending you positive thoughts!

 

[Jem]

I'm tagging Furballsmom for you. She has a wonderful list of feeding options to entice a not eating kitty. It may not be useful at this moment if you don't have the items in your home right now, but may come in handy with your cat's recovery when you get her home from the cardiologist. I know I've used many of the tips she's provided.
In the mean time though, try giving her some slightly diluted tuna water, that might spark her interest in drinking more.

 

[Jem]

I am so sorry you had to go through this and I hope our babies meet in kitty heaven when the time comes for Lily.

Thank you,

 

[emilyodette]

I gave her one of each kind of food (turkey, chicken, fish, etc.). She loves fish so she ate some of that and had a normal bowel movement. I wonder if I can feed her real tuna? Making her some tuna water now with the juice from her food. Thank you again.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! The tuna hopefully works, and here's the whole list;

In addition try some raw egg yolk. Egg white must always be cooked, and some people cook the white and make a slurry of sorts by adding in the raw yolk.

Try making this;
tent test for dehydration and home-made pedialyte recipe - The Daily Kitten

Also, try making one of these;
Kitten Glop Recipes - Supplementing Cats and Kittens with nutritious formula you make at home: presented by Bengal Cat breeder Foothill Felines. --This website has a number of kitten glop recipes, with ingredients that you may very well have in your house.

These can be used on their own or combined with food. Also, if you heat the food a little - stir it so there aren't any hot spots from the microwave. Or you could heat some water, about a tablespoon, and add that to canned food. A small glass works to stir it all up.

• Chicken, beef or ham flavored baby food such as Gerber Stage 2 - make sure there is no garlic or onions in the ingredients

• Tuna and/or the juice, a low mercury/low/no sodium brand is called SafeCatch

• Salmon, mackerel

• Sardines (make sure there are no bones)

• boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings

• canned kitten food any brand - it's usually smelly. See if it's eaten on its own, then maybe mix it in or put on top

• Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet or store bought

• Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)

• Lickable cat treats or pouch treat 'gravy' poured over the food

• kitten glop (recipes in website link above)
• Bonito flakes
• fortiflora
• fish oil
• green beans, asparagus mushed up

• goat milk, or no lactose cow milk
• whole cooked eggs (the white must always be cooked) or raw egg yolk now and then
• broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind
• There are also commercial toppers, Applaws is a brand that can work well as a topper
  
• Some good treats would be freeze dried Purebites, Orijen, Meowtinis, Meowables

• There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats
• shredded cheddar cheese

 

[Jem]

Although "human tuna" is not good (in general) for a cat's diet, (because of potentially high mercury levels and that it does not contain all the nutrients for a well rounded diet)
It can most definitely be used in small amounts to entice a cat to eat. I would often use a few pieces of tuna to get an appetite going, either on it's own as a "treat" or added on top of their wet food.
I also added the water from the can to their wet food or simply gave it to them as is (diluted) to get them to drink, or as a treat.
I often have tuna sandwiches for my lunch. picture three (two now) cats rubbing up on my legs crying out like they have not eaten in days. The second they hear the can opener pierce the lid, they come running. It would get so bad sometimes that I couldn't move for fear I would step on or kick one of them. So I would save the few tablespoons of tuna juice in a bowl and then fill the rest up with water, and place it on the floor for them. It gave me the time I needed to make my sandwiches in peace.
My two remaining cats are now almost 20 and 18, so few bits of tuna now and then obviously didn't cause them any harm.

 

[Furballsmom]

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[SiameseMummy]

I had a cat diagnosed with restrictive cardiomyopathy after she collapsed so I totally sympathise with what you're going through.

I understand the worry. The cardiologist told us she had six months and we lost her six months and 2 days after diagnosis. It was terrible at times because I wasn't sure what I was going to come home to or wake up to - the idea of her throwing a clot and being in pain while I was not there terrified me.

I would agree with the vet in seeing the cardiologist and see what you are dealing with. You may get a few more years out of her yet or you may not but at least you can make an informed decision of where to go next. You will be given blood thinners to reduce the risk of clots (my girl was on clopidogrel for this).

In the end, Tesla's final decline was very quick. She only missed one meal and looked like she was struggling to catch her breath. My husband and I were both there to rush her to the vets and say goodbye. It was very peaceful at the end and luckily none of my worst fears came true.

The extra six months I had with her were very special and I would not have done anything differently for me. But, I won't pretend there wasn't an emotional price to pay from worrying how the end would come and you need to think what is best for you and kitty - the cardiologist results should help you decide.

 

[emilyodette]

I go into more detail about Lily’s state in my last post. My question here is, she was recommended yesterday to go straight from the vet to a cardiologist but none were available until today at 3pm. It would’ve been an hour long drive and her respiratory rate doubled when I took her to the normal vet 10 mins away yesterday. I tried to get her into her carrier for 30 mins and she was really struggling to breathe. I decided I couldn’t take her today. I didn’t think she would make the car ride. Do you think I sacrificed a potentially good few months for a few difficult hours? If that makes sense. The cardiologist would’ve been able to give us definite diagnosis and better treatment options and prognosis. But I truly felt she wouldn’t make it the. I have slept maybe 4 hours in the last 60 or so hours and I feel like I’m going to pass out so I’m going to take a nap for a couple hours next to her. I just can’t stop worrying. I want to take her for x rays to see if she really is improving as it seems, but even that may be too much for her. Just looking for opinions about my decisions because I know I’m going to feel extreme guilt for all of this later on and think her demise is my fault for not treating it definitively faster.

 

[KarenKat]

I don't know anything about this particular issue, but I think you absolutely made the right decision. It doesn't matter what would have happened or might not have happened. You struggled to do what you thought best, and you payed attention and listened to Lily and reacted based on what was best for her in the moment. The important thing is your love for her, and the fact that you are absolutely doing the best thing.

My heart goes out to both of you. Never feel guilty for being the best thing for Lily.

 

[emilyodette]

Well she has a suspected diagnosis but we don’t know for sure. Thus her treatment could not be the best. If I could get her to a cardiologist they would know for sure and be able to treat and give prognosis. I’ve considered in home euthanasia but everyone has told me to give it a chance because if she does have congestive heart failure she may improve and live a few weeks to months with this medication. She does seem to be doing better like the meds are working but she won’t drink and she really needs to..will post updates.. I’m trying to figure that if she does pass while I am asleep at least I won’t witness how painful it is. I know that’s very selfish but I’m just trying to force my paranoid and worried brain to take a break. I’ve tried getting friends to come over to watch her while I sleep but everyone is busy..

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Can you discuss this long car ride with the cardiologist and see what they recommend? Maybe they can review her charts and tests and give you their thoughts without actually seeing Lily ? Or maybe they can prescribe something that will calm her for the car ride?

As far as when "the time" comes, you can probably make arrangements with an at-home Vet to come to your house...just see if they are on call 24/7 because if it becomes an emergency, if might happen in the middle of the night, but I think you will wake up because it's just they way of it. You would probably hear her. But hopefully that won't be for some time yet. She's so young

 

[1 bruce 1]

Well she has a suspected diagnosis but we don’t know for sure. Thus her treatment could not be the best. If I could get her to a cardiologist they would know for sure and be able to treat and give prognosis. I’ve considered in home euthanasia but everyone has told me to give it a chance because if she does have congestive heart failure she may improve and live a few weeks to months with this medication. She does seem to be doing better like the meds are working but she won’t drink and she really needs to..will post updates.. I’m trying to figure that if she does pass while I am asleep at least I won’t witness how painful it is. I know that’s very selfish but I’m just trying to force my paranoid and worried brain to take a break. I’ve tried getting friends to come over to watch her while I sleep but everyone is busy..

We have a similar thing going on, but it's not heart disease, it's asthma in our cat. We have an excellent hospital on referral about 2 hours away, but, like Lily, 10 minutes in the car produces increased breathing efforts and open mouth inhales for him.
Have you talked to the vet, or even the cardio doc about this problem?
If she needs to drink and you haven't already, keep the water bowl washed out with soap and hot water and filled with fresh water. Put water in a container like a glass or a pitcher, put the bowl right close to her and fill it slowly with her only a foot away or so. Some cats, even when thirstless, are attracted to clean, fresh, moving (running) water. If you have a fountain, keep it clean. Take it apart and wash it out very well one or twice daily.

 

[emilyodette]

See my previous two posts first...
Lily is doing worse. A vein leading from her heart is enlarged. She feels ok and got her meds increased, though. My dad wants to keep trying for her but I want to avoid a sudden and painful death. I also found out her sister could have the same kind of heart issue since they’re from the same litter. So the sister needs x rays and ekg or endo-stuff too. I also found a bug or plastic in their food. Attached a pic. ALSO I’m reading that a grain free diet can cause heart failure in cats and dogs so I feel like a piece of shit now. I’ve fed them halo, crave, rachel whatever, etc. for dry food in the past. Currently crave. They eat friskies Purina wet cat food. Can’t believe the thing I found in it..
I just feel hopeless and lost. It’s one thing after another and I don’t know what to do. I’m going to attempt to sleep for a bit but those are my thoughts and why I’m feeling guilty..

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! That heart failure thing, I think you're referring to, is regarding dogs and taurine.
Have yu contacted Ourina? Hang in there!

 

[Margret]

E emilyodette , it's much easier to follow things if you just stick with a single thread when you're talking about a particular problem. If you can't do that, and want to refer people to a previous thread (or, in this case, two previous threads), please at least include links. I only found your previous posts on this topic by going to your profile to look for threads that you've started recently. I understand about being stressed right now, but you're making it difficult for us to help you.

That said, I'd be very interested to know where you saw anything about grain free diets causing heart failure in cats, because I've never heard anything of the sort. What grain does to cats is to raise their blood sugar and to provide them with excess calories so they tend to get fat.

I don't see the picture you say you've attached?

Margret

 

[SiameseMummy]

My sister is a people doctor and when I was going through this with my cat she said that the drugs I was giving my cat would be the same as she would give a person

I think the meds for whichever cardiomegaly your cat has the treatment would be the same and would be based on your cats weight rather than the severity of the condition, maybe you can ask your vet on this? My girl was started on these (excluding the vetmedin) before the cardiologist appointment

We had four meds :
- A diuretic to remove fluids from the blood which reduces blood pressure to reduce the hearts workload (furosemide)
- An ACE inhibitor to dilate blood vessels which reduces blood pressure to reduce the hearts workload (benazepril)
- a blood thinner to reduce the risk of clots (clopidogrel)
- vetmedin which is meant to help the heart muscle strengthen (not sure if this is always used)

Without a cardiologist looking at your cat though you have no idea what form or cardiomegaly she has (dilated, restrictive, hypertrophic) or how bad it is. The most common form in cats is hypertrophic cardiomyopath.

Oh, and at 1 year old with this condition is absolutely nothing you've done. This is likely genetic (pretty much confirmed if her sister is getting it).

A grain free diet tends to be higher quality and not linked to heart disease. The only link between diet and heart disease is her not getting taurine which would lead to dilated cardiomyopathy and eye problems - but that form if heart disease was pretty much eradicated in the 1980s when manufacturers started supplementing taurine in cat food. If you are feeding commercial food (or homemade raw with the supplements) this is not something you have to worry about.

I would talk to your vet about your concerns. My vet regularly consulted with the cardiologist by phone while I was going through this so maybe there's something that can be done without the drive. You will likely need 2 ekgs for a prognosis (another a couple weeks later to see how she's doing on the meds).

 

[Antonio65]

What grain does to cats is to raise their blood sugar and to provide them with excess calories so they tend to get fat.

And to expose them to possible bowel diseases, like IBD or IBS.