Antioxidants during chemo - your experiences

[mphscat]

So let me start this off by saying that my oncologist is in full support of getting other people's opinion and says that my "mom instinct" needs to make a call on this decision.

My 15 year old Maggie is undergoing chemotherapy for large cell nasal lymphoma and so far has been doing fantastic.  I discussed supplements with her and she reviewed and agreed giving Maggie Omega3/6, tumeric, heart support, kidney support (all gotten through Only Natural Pet)  and prednisolone (dosage reduced today) but isn't quite sure what to recommend for the immune strengthener and/or antioxidants that I'd like to give Maggie because, as she states, "We simply don't know!".  There are different thoughts on this which are:

wait completely until chemo is over and then start the antioxidants

do not give antioxidants the day before, during or after chemo but any other time is fine

Why the confusion?  Some studies show that the antioxidants help protect and reinforce cells and the fear is that it will help protect and reinfornce the cancer cells we're trying to get rid of.  Others thing that the antioxidants help the elimiination process of the effects of the chemo (not lessen the chemo effect) and help protect the good cells from the chemo.

So has anyone used antioxidants or other supplements during chemo for your cats and, if so, what was your experience?  Do you think it helped, hurt, was indifferent?

Many thanks, as always, for your knowledge and support.

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

Hello, as you know my boy Simon hasn't undergone treatments of any kind.

But I'm sure that experienced "Members" will have answers for you or point you in the right direction.

I'm rooting for you two...  

I may have asked on your other thread, but do you have any pictures of the sweet girl...

 

[mphscat]

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

6 cats, wow... Cat's are OK, LOLOLOL.  That's great.

Maggie is beautiful.  I love her coat, silver/blue, she's gorgeous.  

Simon has SCC, oral cancer, but by the time they detected it it was adhered to his jaw bone left side, since he has a murmur hey couldn't sedate him and x-ray.  And said it was extremely aggressive.  In a nut shell, the vet gave him not even a week, and we're going on 3 months, fingers crossed... on May 11th.

Have you checked this site for threads in the Nutrition section regarding antioxidants and supplements.  Long shot perhaps but worth a try.

Please keep me updated on Sweet Maggie.  Be well. 

 

[mphscat]

Thank you, 2Cats....I think she's beautiful, too...inside and out.

I am so sorry about Simon.  I wonder if radiation therapy could have been a solution if he could have been sedated?  The heart murmur definitely through a different perspective on the cure.  I hate that.

I will look for threads in the nutrition section.  Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

 
Thank you, 2Cats....I think she's beautiful, too...inside and out.

I am so sorry about Simon.  I wonder if radiation therapy could have been a solution if he could have been sedated?  The heart murmur definitely through a different perspective on the cure.  I hate that.

I will look for threads in the nutrition section.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Simon getting radiation is one of the questions I'll always wonder about.  It was far gone when we took him to the vet, I thought when he slipped off the bed and banged his chin it was just a bump...  go figure.. I never thought cancer.

Anyway, I just read Maggie's story you wrote on Simon's thread...  Thanks for sharing.

Chat again.

Be well.

 

[maggiemay]

Hi, I'm so sorry to hear about Maggie's cancer.  She's absolutely gorgeous!  I had a Maggie as well and miss her to this day.  If you want something to boost the immune system, I highly recommend AHCC, made by American BioSciences.  Only Natural Pet has the pet version of this supplement, called NK-9, which is for dogs and cats.  Dosage is 250 mg. per day for any animal under 30 pounds.  AHCC is the number one supplement in Japan and I can speak to its efficacy personally.  I am a Stage IV breast cancer survivor.  Several years after surgery/chemo/radiation, new tumors were found in the healthy breast and healthy lymph nodes.  I was diagnosed with another form of metastatic breast cancer.  I began taking 3 grams per day of AHCC to equip my immune system to fight the new tumors on its own.  I was diagnosed on August 8 and had my final test on October 8, a PET scan which is considered state of the art at detecting any cancer cell activity.  The tumors were completely gone.  The following week I had a mammogram and ultrasound and those good-sized tumors were 100% gone and have never returned.  It's been 11 years and I have since recommended this to everyone I know who is diagnosed with cancer.  Those who take it during chemo have a much easier time of it than those who don't take it.  I took nothing but the AHCC while my oncologist was putting me through every test available, and the only side effect I experienced was running a fever each afternoon (the sign of an immune system hard at work).

AHCC (and NK-9, I can find nothing that varies in the formula of each) is a mushroom compound.  It is safe for dogs and cats both, is gentle and easily digested, is free of side effects, and does not interact with any medication.  If one of my babies was diagnosed with cancer of any kind, the first thing I would do is start them on AHCC.  There is an entire website devoted to AHCC research, if you want to Google it. I'm new here and cannot post links yet.  I can't recommend this immune supplement highly enough.  I study natural medicine and I don't believe there is a comparable immune supplement on the planet. The cutting edge of cancer research at the moment involves using the patient's own immune system to kill the cancer cells.  I am living proof that it works.  Good reviews for the NK-9 on Only Natural Pet and on Amazon. Another supplement you might consider is Vitamin D3 in an oil under the supervision of your vet.  Vital Choice in Wild Salmon Oil is a great choice, as is Healthy Origins D3 in olive oil.  You will have to give only a small part of a liquid gel-cap.  One of my cats is on 400 i.u. every three days; she weighs 10 pounds. Very important to have your vet supervise the D3 supplementation, but it works wonders too. I hope this helps your beautiful girl.  We need all of our Maggie's healthy and happy!

 

[mphscat]

 
Hi, I'm so sorry to hear about Maggie's cancer.  She's absolutely gorgeous!  I had a Maggie as well and miss her to this day.  If you want something to boost the immune system, I highly recommend AHCC, made by American BioSciences.  Only Natural Pet has the pet version of this supplement, called NK-9, which is for dogs and cats.  Dosage is 250 mg. per day for any animal under 30 pounds.  AHCC is the number one supplement in Japan and I can speak to its efficacy personally.  I am a Stage IV breast cancer survivor.  Several years after surgery/chemo/radiation, new tumors were found in the healthy breast and healthy lymph nodes.  I was diagnosed with another form of metastatic breast cancer.  I began taking 3 grams per day of AHCC to equip my immune system to fight the new tumors on its own.  I was diagnosed on August 8 and had my final test on October 8, a PET scan which is considered state of the art at detecting any cancer cell activity.  The tumors were completely gone.  The following week I had a mammogram and ultrasound and those good-sized tumors were 100% gone and have never returned.  It's been 11 years and I have since recommended this to everyone I know who is diagnosed with cancer.  Those who take it during chemo have a much easier time of it than those who don't take it.  I took nothing but the AHCC while my oncologist was putting me through every test available, and the only side effect I experienced was running a fever each afternoon (the sign of an immune system hard at work).

AHCC (and NK-9, I can find nothing that varies in the formula of each) is a mushroom compound.  It is safe for dogs and cats both, is gentle and easily digested, is free of side effects, and does not interact with any medication.  If one of my babies was diagnosed with cancer of any kind, the first thing I would do is start them on AHCC.  There is an entire website devoted to AHCC research, if you want to Google it. I'm new here and cannot post links yet.  I can't recommend this immune supplement highly enough.  I study natural medicine and I don't believe there is a comparable immune supplement on the planet. The cutting edge of cancer research at the moment involves using the patient's own immune system to kill the cancer cells.  I am living proof that it works.  Good reviews for the NK-9 on Only Natural Pet and on Amazon. Another supplement you might consider is Vitamin D3 in an oil under the supervision of your vet.  Vital Choice in Wild Salmon Oil is a great choice, as is Healthy Origins D3 in olive oil.  You will have to give only a small part of a liquid gel-cap.  One of my cats is on 400 i.u. every three days; she weighs 10 pounds. Very important to have your vet supervise the D3 supplementation, but it works wonders too. I hope this helps your beautiful girl.  We need all of our Maggie's healthy and happy!

Sorry for the delay in responding but your post deserved much more of a recognition than I could give you on my iPhone.  You,my dear, are simply amazing and I thank you for sharing your story. You are a warrior, not just a survivor and are a true ray of sunshine in the dark life of being a cancer victim.  I wish you all the health, wealth and happiness in the world.

My Maggie's full name is actually Maggie Mae, named after my sweet sweet grandmother.  I looked up the NK-9 on ONP (Only Natural Pet) and saw that they mention is specifically being for dogs.  I have, instead, been giving her the following mushroom blend, also from ONP containing the following mushrooms.  Is this not very similar to what you're referring to?

• Cordycaps  (Cordycaps sinensis) - anti-bacterial, anti-oxidant, anti-tumor, anti-viral, blood-pressure, blood sugar moderator, cardiovascular, cholesterol reducer, immune enhancer, kidney tonic, liver tonic, lungs/respiratory, nerve tonic, sexual potentiator, stress reducer.
• Reishi  (Ganoderma lucidum) - anti-bacterial, anti-candida, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, anti-tumor, anti-viral, blood-pressure, blood sugar moderator, cardiovascular, cholesterol reducer, immune enhancer, kidney tonic, liver tonic, lungs/respiratory, nerve tonic, stress reducer.
• Maitake  (Grifola frondosa) - anti-bacterial, anti-candida, anti-tumor, anti-viral, blood-pressure, blood sugar moderator, immune enhancer, lungs/respiratory.
• Shiitake  (Lentinula adodes) - anti-bacterial, anti-candida, anti-tumor, anti-viral, blood-pressure, blood sugar moderator, cholesterol reducer, immune enhancer, kidney tonic, liver tonic, sexual potentiator, stress reducer.
• Turkey Tail  (Trametes versicolor) - anti-bacterial, anti-oxidant, anti-tumor, anti-viral, immune enhancer, kidney tonic, liver tonic.

I have also been giving her additional supplements from ONP for heart health and kidney health as well as tumeric but she threw up today about 30 minutes after I gave them to her so it may be just a little too much for her system.  I may just stick with the tumeric and mushrooms for a while.

Maggie's oncologist says that if you put 10 veterinary oncologiest in one room, they're all going to differ in some way in their treatment, some vehemently.  You mentioned an Omega 3 in your post which I am actually giving Maggie as suggested by her oncologist but another oncologist on the Yahoo Feline Lymphoma website is against it completely and says that it interferes with the effectiveness of the chemo (speaking specifically of Doxorubicin).  But if the chemo drug doesn't remain in your system more than XX hours (I found a chart but can't remember offhand now), why would he just suggest to not take it XX before and no before XX hours after the chemo?  

I have seen opinions all over the spectrum...take antioxidants, don't take antioxidants because they protest the cancer cells as well as the other cells, take antioxidants but not the day before, the day of and not before xx hours after chemo.  It is exhausting to read.  But as Maggie's oncologist says, I am the decision maker..

Thanks again for your wise words of help and again,  I wish you all the best.

Regi

 

[maggiemay]

Hi, Regi.  I so appreciate your sweet words.  I can tell a gracious fellow Southerner when I meet one!    So our girls have the same name?  And that's also your grandmother's name? How beautiful!  Yes, I beat the heck out of cancer twice, I'm happy to say. Kicked it to the curb!  lol   I got off all pharmaceuticals and began taking specific supplements which have not only given me back my health and quality of life, they have also completely done away with all side effects of chemo, which were supposed to last for the rest of my life. I didn't intend to just survive.  I was determined to thrive.  This is a battle far too many are now having to fight, but it is definitely doable.  Attitude is everything, as my chemo nurses used to tell me.  It turns out they were absolutely right.  Your wonderful attitude will help Maggie.  She's very blessed to have you as her mom.  It's obvious you are a fighter and our pets are instinctively that way, so you girls are already quite a team.  I'm so sorry you and Maggie are going through this.  I know there are times you feel inundated with far too much information.  This is just an option, whether given along with chemo, or following chemo, or not at all. I am just happy to have this information out there.

When my own immune system eradicated the new tumors, everyone on my medical team - oncologists, chemo nurses, my radiologist - all wrote down the name of this supplement because they had never seen tumors disappear like mine did and none of them was familiar with AHCC, although it's been used for cancer treatment in Japan for 30 years.  Several of them have told me that they have since recommended it to family and friends who have been diagnosed with cancer.  The medical community is pretty much clueless when it comes to most supplements, including any vitamin other than the basic antioxidants.  And I say this coming from a family of doctors.  They are the first to admit it.  Unfortunately, the same holds true for veterinarians.  They simply aren't taught about supplements in med school; they are taught pharmacology.  Your oncologist sounds wonderful, btw. I'm very glad you have her.  

Tumeric can be a bit harsh on the system, and to be at peak efficacy, should be given with Bioperine, which is a supplement based on black pepper.  That would definitely be too much for Maggie's tummy right now.

The other supplement I mentioned in my post wasn't an Omega 3, it was Vitamin D3.  D3 is actually not a vitamin, but a steroid hormone.  It regulates thousands of bodily processes and genetic expressions in us and in our pets.  My aunt was diagnosed last fall with triple negative breast cancer, which is one of the most aggressive and dangerous kinds of cancer.  It is not positive for any of the hormonal receptors in the body, and so it doesn't respond to conventional therapies.  Her chemo was a combination of Doxorubicin and Taxotere.  Her oncologist wanted her to wait until chemo was finished to take the AHCC, but was fine with her taking Vitamin D3.  Taxotere is one of the deadliest chemotherapies.  I took its cousin, Taxol, as one of my chemotherapies, and it took me years to get over it.  I wasn't taking D3 during my own chemo, knew very little about supplements at the time.  My aunt took therapeutic levels of Vitamin D3 throughout her chemo and within one week of her last treatment, she was out shopping!  I was stunned, to say the least.  When people or pets supplement with Vitamin D3, they need to have their blood levels checked each time they get their normal blood work done.  So it's imperative that you supplement under your oncologist's supervision if you give Maggie Vitamin D3.  D3 is taking the medical world by storm with all of the amazing regenerative properties it possesses that are only now being discovered.  They have also discovered that the standard 400 i.u of D3 recommended per day is far too small to be a therapeutic dose.  In humans, the therapeutic dose (which will actually elevate blood levels of D3) is 8,000-10,000 i.u. per day.  Definitely worth talking to your oncologist about, and this is plain old Vitamin D3, like milk is supplemented with.  You would be giving her Vitamin D3 in a base of either olive oil or wild salmon oil.  It comes in small gel-caps filled with the D3-infused oil.  D3 is fat soluble and therefore works best when administered in an oil base.  Do not let anyone give Maggie Vitamin D2, that is a synthetic made in a lab and it's seldom effective.  It is, however, the prescription most doctors write for patients, sad to say.

I realize this is a lot to take in, but please don't feel overwhelmed.  It's just information that has much potential for any person or pet struggling with a compromised immune system.  I am going to send you a PM with a link to the AHCC research website so you can share that with your oncologist if you choose.  I can't post links yet because I'm a new member.  You girls will both be in my prayers.  I am on Team Maggie and I'm very much pulling for you both!  Take care ~ Judy