Another unfortunate peeing outside of the litterbox issue

[smbsocal]

Unfortunately this is another kitten peeing outside of the litter box post.

Back in April we added a 6 month old male kitten to the household, which had a older cat (15 year old female Bengal). Unfortunately he loves to wrestle roughly which was hard on the old cat.

To solve that problem we added 3 more kittens to the household. Which are enough to grab his attention and keep him from bothering the older cat.

The other problem is that he has the habit of not using the litter box to pee. He has always pooed in the litter box.

We have brought him to the vet a number of times and early on he had a UTI but has had a clean bill of health for a while now.

We have tried; clumping clay litter, non-clumping clay litter, pine litter, Breeze litter system. We have tried covered, uncovered, high walled, low walled and top entry litter boxes. The litter boxes are cleaned every day.

Unfortunately he continues to pee outside of the litter box as much as he uses the litter boxes. There isn't any particular spot or material. He will pee on carpet, wood flooring, in cat trees, in closets, in empty bath tubs, on clothes on the ground, on the beds and on throw rugs.

He pees standing up and is a high sprayer so can't tell if he is marking or just peeing since it is the same motion for him.

We had him confined to his own room with an attached bathroom with three litter boxes in it (had a maximum of 6 litter boxes at one time) when he had his UTI per the common advice for him to re-associate using the litter box. After a couple weeks of this we let him out and he went back to peeing outside of the litter box as much as he uses it.

At this point he is confined to his room at night and out during the evenings when we get home from work but we have to keep an eye on him since there is always a chance he will pee somewhere.

He is a very loving boy who is the type that will follow you around, sit next to you (he isn't a lap cat) when you watch TV, will talk to you (has a wide vocal range), loves to sleep next to you in bed (at the risk of peeing in the bed).

All of out cats are indoor cats and we are thinking about re-homing him with my sister so he could be a indoor / outdoor cat on a 100 acre farm. To us being confined to a bedroom every night and day (while we are at work) while all of the other cats are running around outside doesn't seem like a great life.

Anyone have any more ideas that we could try or are there just some cats that never learn to use the litter box all the time?

 

[Alldara]

Is he neutered?

Here are some other tips. Urine Marking in Cats

You may need to spread out resources. Have you watched Jackson Galaxy's Catification videos?

5 cats could be too many for your space.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Did he start peeing outside the litter box before or after the kittens were introduced to your home? Does he get along with all of the other cats in your home? What did he do when you confined him to the bathroom with multiple litter boxes - did he continue to pee outside of them while in that confinement? Does he pee outside the litter box(es) when confined all day now? Have you tried puppy pee pads either in a litter box or on the floor?

If he gets along with the other cats, can some of them spend time with him while you are at work? You could swap out cats so that none of them are always confined to the space you keep him in. But he/they would have company that way.

I know you said he had a UTI and has been cleared of them since then. but some cats have what is called FIC/FLUTD and that can provoke inappropriate peeing when a cat is anxious/over-excited.
Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (flutd) – TheCatSite Articles
Feline Idiopathic Cystitis – How To Improve Your Cat’s Quality Of Life – TheCatSite Articles
The Litterbox: What Every Cat Owner Needs To Know – TheCatSite Articles

 

[smbsocal]

Is he neutered?

Here are some other tips. Urine Marking in Cats

You may need to spread out resources. Have you watched Jackson Galaxy's Catification videos?

5 cats could be too many for your space.

He was neutered when we got him.

The house is a 5k sq foot single story ranch house with just the wife and I in addition to the cats.

 

[smbsocal]

Did he start peeing outside the litter box before or after the kittens were introduced to your home? Does he get along with all of the other cats in your home? What did he do when you confined him to the bathroom with multiple litter boxes - did he continue to pee outside of them while in that confinement? Does he pee outside the litter box(es) when confined all day now? Have you tried puppy pee pads either in a litter box or on the floor?

If he gets along with the other cats, can some of them spend time with him while you are at work? You could swap out cats so that none of them are always confined to the space you keep him in. But he/they would have company that way.

I know you said he had a UTI and has been cleared of them since then. but some cats have what is called FIC/FLUTD and that can provoke inappropriate peeing when a cat is anxious/over-excited.
Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (flutd) – TheCatSite Articles
Feline Idiopathic Cystitis – How To Improve Your Cat’s Quality Of Life – TheCatSite Articles
The Litterbox: What Every Cat Owner Needs To Know – TheCatSite Articles

He hasn't always used the litter box since we got him.

He gets along with all the other cats, he loves to be around all of them and loves to engage with them.

When he was confirmed to the bathroom he would pee in the shower floor next to the litter boxes, but would use them as well. When he was in the room and bathroom he would use the litter boxes as well as pee on the carpet and bed mattress. Right now we use the carpet cleaner on the carpet in the room every other week.

When we feed him in the morning before work if one of the other cats go in the room we let them hang out together for the day.

I will look at the FIC/FLUTD information.

 

[smbsocal]

One thing I forgot to add is that he prefers dry food. When first got him we would feed them wet food twice per day and allow them to free feed on the dry.

Since the UTI we have the dry food on a timed dispenser and only giving a 1/4 cup late at night while we sleep and when we are at work. When he is in his bedroom he isn't exposed to the dry food.

 

[BoaztheAdventureCat]

I suggest cutting out the dry food entirely. Have you ever wondered why there's a statistic predicting that 1 in 3 cats will die of kidney disease? I believe the dry food is a contributing factor to your cat's peeing issues. How many times a day does he pee? On average, a healthy male cat is supposed to pee 3-4 times daily.

Have you used scented litter? Since cats have a much better sense of smell than we do, the chemicals used to scent some cat litters can be overwhelming for some cats.

 

[smbsocal]

I suggest cutting out the dry food entirely. Have you ever wondered why there's a statistic predicting that 1 in 3 cats will die of kidney disease? I believe the dry food is a contributing factor to your cat's peeing issues. How many times a day does he pee? On average, a healthy male cat is supposed to pee 3-4 times daily.

Have you used scented litter? Since cats have a much better sense of smell than we do, the chemicals used to scent some cat litters can be overwhelming for some cats.

It is crazy how little information there is on how bad dry food is for cats.

I would say he is peeing around 3 to 6 times a day.

We have used scented, unscented as well as Dr. Elsey's litter attract (the litter itself and the add-on to other litters).

 

[Alldara]

He was neutered when we got him.

The house is a 5k sq foot single story ranch house with just the wife and I in addition to the cats.

Space for a cat will mean pathways to resources, not just physical space for example, is there two ways out of each resource? Since he had that stress before, he might be carrying it over now that all cats are getting along.

Can you set up a camera around? Specifically a litter area? I'm asking because even though they get along, another cat can still be resource guarding. Otherwise what you might see is him going in and then put which could mean he's associated the litter box with pain.

I'm glad someone suggested looking up FLUTD. I would suggest the same. Much of treatment is about enrichment to lower stress, dry food and either:
1. Anti-inflammatories for flare ups, but given at least for a few weeks to see if that sorts out his litter issues.
2. Anxiety medication because the flare ups are caused by stress. That makes sense, as he didn't get on with your older cat (might still not, again suggesting camera*) and then you've introduced 3 kittens.

Getting his wet food intake up will be beneficial to him long term, especially as he's had that infection before. Any infection in the bladder can lead to FLUTD.

* I thought Lily and Nobel were getting along until Lily passed away. Nobel was more relaxed during introductions to Magnus than he was after years of living with her. We did not see the subtle impacts until afterwards. We did see some behaviours, but the full picture would not have been open to us without a camera beforehand.

 

[smbsocal]

Space for a cat will mean pathways to resources, not just physical space for example, is there two ways out of each resource? Since he had that stress before, he might be carrying it over now that all cats are getting along.

Can you set up a camera around? Specifically a litter area? I'm asking because even though they get along, another cat can still be resource guarding. Otherwise what you might see is him going in and then put which could mean he's associated the litter box with pain.

I'm glad someone suggested looking up FLUTD. I would suggest the same. Much of treatment is about enrichment to lower stress, dry food and either:
1. Anti-inflammatories for flare ups, but given at least for a few weeks to see if that sorts out his litter issues.
2. Anxiety medication because the flare ups are caused by stress. That makes sense, as he didn't get on with your older cat (might still not, again suggesting camera*) and then you've introduced 3 kittens.

Getting his wet food intake up will be beneficial to him long term, especially as he's had that infection before. Any infection in the bladder can lead to FLUTD.

Ahh, it is a fairly open floor plan for the most part with a wing that has a bunch of rooms so perfect with a bunch of hiding spots with little ability to corner unless you go into one of the smaller rooms. He does love to run from one side of the house to the other at full speed. If we did re-home him to my sister he would probably love being on the wide open farm and the ability to run without limits (basically).

The one with the issues is sort of the most dominant one.

We haven't given him any anti-inflammatory medicine yet.

Has has been on anti-anxiety medication for the past month.

His wet food is always mixed with a good amount of water, corn silk extract and D-Mannose powder.

 

[Alldara]

S smbsocal the reason I recommend that you set up a camera is because:

1. Cats are very good at hiding. This includes behaviour. Even if he appears to be the most dominant one, that doesn't make it true or mean that he isn't being bullied out of retaliation.

- conflict with another cat in the house is very frequently part of the issue.

2. He's showing signs of stress. More information is always better and can help to find the underlying cause.


If he is bonded with the other cats, it may cause much stress for him to be moved. Which, I'm assuming you've already considered as you're posting here.

Feline Idiopathic Cystitis (FIC) | International Cat Care


Above is a link for more information and ideas. It's for FLUTD but helps with all kinds of urinary issues and explains more.

Many of us said in your previous post, adding more and more cats was not likely to solve this behaviour. It may have solved him bothering your older cat, but that in and of itself was not going to repair their relationship. I doubt rehoming him wil do more than push the issue to later, or on to another home. You're right that locking him in a room isn't a great answer either.


* Again a bit of personal experience with ongoing FLUTD issues. Nobel seemed the most dominant and Lily was excellent at playing the victim. Up until we caught her instigating and biting him. Bravado was part of his anxiety and it came out in the form of FLUTD and later, deffered agression.