Rescuing Feral Kitten In Bangkok

[Norachan]

Oh, I was just wondering about that myself. Any chance of an update BangkokKittens ?

 

[dahli6]

I have been wondering too.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thank you all for your continuing concern and apologies for my poor reporting. Happily in this case no news is good news, at least mostly.

The kittens are all doing great and seem to be gradually getting used to me and other people. I can pet one regularly and have touched one or two others a little bit. I now often let them out into the rest of the house so it is easier for them to spend time around me. My neighbor continues to come by almost every day and they play excitedly with her. The one that lets me pet him is male, but I can't figure out any of the others yet.

They reunion with their mother was difficult and I am not sure the they have bonded again like mother and children, but they do now all seem to get along. At timers they seem quite collegial and sit together like friends. At other times she can be sightly difficult, like batting them away if we try to play with them and she is around. It also seems that she has stopped lactating and so has given up on that. She goes in and out and seems content.

Despite the fact they when they are playing or feeding they come quite close and will actually climb on me and let me touch them a bit, at other times they remain skittish and often flee at the sight of me, even if I am far away. They still hiss quite a bit.

My plan is to wait for another week or so, then take them all to the vet to be neutered. I am planning to keep them indoors for a week or so after that so they can recover and socialize a bit more, then will begin to let them go outside.

I do wish that they were a bit more friendly, but an pretty happy with the progress that we are making. I don't really have any major problems or issues with them at this point. They do seem to have fairly frequent diarrhea, but there isn't much that I can do about that as I can't tell which kitten has the problem and would have trouble catching it if I could. It also seems hard at times to get them all to eat. I typically put full meals out on four plates and put them down simultaneously so they don't compete. A few times recently, the smallest kitten seems disinterested in eating and lets the bigger ones eat its food. One of the four is bigger than the others and one perhaps seems smaller. But broadly they all seem happy, healthy and make a great little pack.

I have attached a bunch off pictures below:

1) Three kittens sitting on my couch with Mom (she is on the right)
2 & 3) Three kittens playing with me
4) The boldest one who lets me pet him
5) All four kittens
6) Me petting the bold one!

 

[talkingpeanut]

This is a positive update!

It’s normal for mom to push the kittens away once they are a certain age. She is encouraging them to leave the nest. There also isn’t a mother/child bond like what you are looking for.

In terms of letting the kittens outside, I would wait. They are young and it’s dangerous for any cat to be outside, let alone those who don’t have their wits about them. Usually 9 months and spayed/neutered, and vaccinated is the recommendation.

 

[dahli6]

The diarrhea could be anything from parasites to too much moisture in their food. They are going to a vet next week and will probably get treated for parasites. I started following PAWS Bangkok IG, they are so wonderful!
I think your plans are just perfect. They will all most likely stay close to your home after release.
You should feel very good about all you have done.
My only advice to you is to keep providing food and water after you release them so they do stay close. We don't want to see them poisoned.

 

[BangkokKittens]

This is a positive update!

It’s normal for mom to push the kittens away once they are a certain age. She is encouraging them to leave the nest. There also isn’t a mother/child bond like what you are looking for.

In terms of letting the kittens outside, I would wait. They are young and it’s dangerous for any cat to be outside, let alone those who don’t have their wits about them. Usually 9 months and spayed/neutered, and vaccinated is the recommendation.

Thanks. I definitely won't let them out at all until they are neutered. I will probably plan to keep them as mostly indoor cats and have them roam around the house, but I do expect that they will be able to escape occasionally.

One issue, although a luxury one, is that I am amazed by how much they eat and consequently defecate. I have two litter boxes in their room, which I need to clean daily and change the litter every four days or so. I have to confess, that I am looking forward to the time when nature is their bathroom!

 

[BangkokKittens]

The diarrhea could be anything from parasites to too much moisture in their food. They are going to a vet next week and will probably get treated for parasites. I started following PAWS Bangkok IG, they are so wonderful!
I think your plans are just perfect. They will all most likely stay close to your home after release.
You should feel very good about all you have done.
My only advice to you is to keep providing food and water after you release them so they do stay close. We don't want to see them poisoned.

I will also start following PAWS. My plan is to always feed them. I do want to keep them as semi-pets and so will make sure they get regular meals and always have dry food and water. Their home base will be the porch where they stayed before I trapped them (now 3 weeks ago today!)

There are other sources of food around, but I don't want them to need to rely on external sources for sustenance.

I guess I am pleased with their progress in socialization. Firstly, they just seem like a great little gang and go everywhere and do everything together. In a lot of ways, that is more important than socializing with me because I do hope they can stick together somewhat when they go back out.

Yesterday, I was really happy with progress and I was able to pet one and touch another. My neighbor was also able to pick one up. However, today they seemed a bit more distant. I sat with them in my living room, but where they had previously come quite close to me and even jumped up on the couch when I was sitting there, today they stayed at the far end of the room for most of the time and often drafted off even when I was far away.

I guess they just have little moods like the rest of us and may be back to friendly tomorrow.

 

[dahli6]

They most likely will hang out together. All of my neuters play and sleep together outside and they do not wander far from home. I will get pictures to show you.

 

[rubysmama]

Thanks for the update. And pictures. Sounds like things are going well.

One issue, although a luxury one, is that I am amazed by how much they eat and consequently defecate. I have two litter boxes in their room, which I need to clean daily and change the litter every four days or so. I have to confess, that I am looking forward to the time when nature is their bathroom!

Four kittens and 1 adult, right. You might actually need another litter box. The recommendation is 1 box per cat, plus one. So that would mean 6 for you, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. Nevertheless 2 litter boxes will certainly have to be changed often with 5 felines.

I have one adult female and clean the litter box twice a day. I use clumping litter, so rarely dump and replace all the litter, instead, just add more when it gets low.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Thanks for the update. And pictures. Sounds like things are going well.



Four kittens and 1 adult, right. You might actually need another litter box. The recommendation is 1 box per cat, plus one. So that would mean 6 for you, which I'm sure isn't going to happen. Nevertheless 2 litter boxes will certainly have to be changed often with 5 felines.

I have one adult female and clean the litter box twice a day. I use clumping litter, so rarely dump and replace all the litter, instead, just add more when it gets low.

Thanks. That is very helpful. I have never had cats, so don't have much perspective. I may need to add litter boxes.

I actually have three active litter boxes in total, but leave one downstairs in a fixed place as the Mom comes and goes. I assume that since she is outside half the time she is using the letterbox half time. Then I move the other two litter boxes to wherever the kittens are. If they are trapped in their room, I put it there. If I let them loose in the house, I bring them downstairs.

I also use a clumping litter, which means that both liquid and solid waste clump and I wind up removing a lot of litter daily. I had assumed that even the non clumping litter gets old and smelly, so have been dumping, scrubbing and completely replacing the litter about twice a week. If I could just clean and pour new stuff on top, at least part of the time, that would make my life easier!

 

[rubysmama]

If I could just clean and pour new stuff on top, at least part of the time, that would make my life easier!

That's exactly what I do. I remove the waste clumps twice a day, and add more litter when it gets low.

And once a week, after removing the waste clumps, I dump the rest of the litter in a container and then clean the litter box. Once the litter box is clean and dry, I then return the old litter to the litter box, and add fresh litter to top it up.

I rarely, if ever, actually dump all the litter in the box. As long as I keep the box clean, and get all the clumps, including little pieces that break off, it doesn't seem to smell.

Also, I don't know if you'd be able to find them, but I use disposable litter box wipes to clean the litter box, which though are a tad pricey, are very convenient. I buy them at Walmart, but Amazon has them too.

 

[dahli6]

They most likely will hang out together. All of my neuters play and sleep together outside and they do not wander far from home. I will get pictures to show you.

 

[BangkokKittens]

View attachment 206598 View attachment 206600

Great. Thanks. I do think that is exactly what they will do. They seem inseparable!

 

[BangkokKittens]

Here is one more big update and a fairly important question.

Two nights ago, just as I was going to bed, the mother cat was sitting outside and the kittens were all at the door looking at her and they were calling back and forth. So, I let her in and went to sleep.

When I woke up in the morning, I saw that one downstairs door had not been closed securely and they were able to push it open and escape. At this point, I looked out in my garden and saw them out there. Generally looking very happy and incredible cool frolicking around trees, perching up on things and chasing each other eagerly.

So, I left the door open and managed to lure a few back in with some food, but before I could act, the mother came back and carted them all off. She ran up the old tree I had put in place to help her get up and down when the original kitten was trapped and they all followed her. She then gave then the complete tour and I watched them very happily follow here all over before finally winding up back on the porch and then vanishing with them for about 12 hours.

I then set the trap room up again and baited it and within 45 minutes has them all locked away again. I now have them all back in the open in the house and all of the doors completely locked! They were all out for between 15-20 hours.

The mother now seems to have completely bonded and there is no awkwardness. She is also doing some maternal-looking things like fake biting them on the back of the neck and pushing them down with her paw, which they readily accept.

She is now also playing with them for the first time ever. Earlier she seemed to have gotten to the point where they could sleep next to each other and chopped back and forth, but today is the first time I am seeing them play as a group, with her a part of it.

One big impression that I did get, and part of the reason that I am writing this, is that they seemed to love being outside. They seemed to stand more erect, moved more confidently and played like I had never seen before. I have never seem them look that happy and free! This has led me to wonder about the best strategy for getting them neutered and released.

I think they are probably now three months old or more as they seemed to be at least two months when I trapped them 24 days ago. I had been keeping them inside with the primary strategy of letting them get a bit older before surgery, but also to socialize them a little more. However, I am now wondering if it is worth the wait and whether it is cruel to keep them locked up after seeing how much they enjoyed being out.

I think they might continue to socialize a bit even if they were outside - and at the end of the day, I am not expecting to be cuddling with them that much.

I should also emphasize that I think my house is a cat paradise. I have a decent sized yard in front of the house that wraps around to the back. The house itself is one of a group of ten houses connected by a small little lane with no real traffic. There are several other cats around. And then they can easily climb back up to the second floor where they spent their youth and have that porch and a maze of rooftops.

However, despite how ideal it is there are other cats, including toms and at four months maybe they aren’t ready for the real world (although I think their mother managed to survive and rear them successful and she couldn’t have been much more than six months old when she had them.

So, my question is, what do you all think I should do:

1. One day this week take them all to the vet for their operations, keep them indoors for a week or so to recover, then just open the window in the room and let the roam, or
2. Wait a bit longer?

 

[BangkokKittens]

Here are some more photos:

 

[dahli6]

Here is one more big update and a fairly important question.

Two nights ago, just as I was going to bed, the mother cat was sitting outside and the kittens were all at the door looking at her and they were calling back and forth. So, I let her in and went to sleep.

When I woke up in the morning, I saw that one downstairs door had not been closed securely and they were able to push it open and escape. At this point, I looked out in my garden and saw them out there. Generally looking very happy and incredible cool frolicking around trees, perching up on things and chasing each other eagerly.

So, I left the door open and managed to lure a few back in with some food, but before I could act, the mother came back and carted them all off. She ran up the old tree I had put in place to help her get up and down when the original kitten was trapped and they all followed her. She then gave then the complete tour and I watched them very happily follow here all over before finally winding up back on the porch and then vanishing with them for about 12 hours.

I then set the trap room up again and baited it and within 45 minutes has them all locked away again. I now have them all back in the open in the house and all of the doors completely locked! They were all out for between 15-20 hours.

The mother now seems to have completely bonded and there is no awkwardness. She is also doing some maternal-looking things like fake biting them on the back of the neck and pushing them down with her paw, which they readily accept.

She is now also playing with them for the first time ever. Earlier she seemed to have gotten to the point where they could sleep next to each other and chopped back and forth, but today is the first time I am seeing them play as a group, with her a part of it.

One big impression that I did get, and part of the reason that I am writing this, is that they seemed to love being outside. They seemed to stand more erect, moved more confidently and played like I had never seen before. I have never seem them look that happy and free! This has led me to wonder about the best strategy for getting them neutered and released.

I think they are probably now three months old or more as they seemed to be at least two months when I trapped them 24 days ago. I had been keeping them inside with the primary strategy of letting them get a bit older before surgery, but also to socialize them a little more. However, I am now wondering if it is worth the wait and whether it is cruel to keep them locked up after seeing how much they enjoyed being out.

I think they might continue to socialize a bit even if they were outside - and at the end of the day, I am not expecting to be cuddling with them that much.

I should also emphasize that I think my house is a cat paradise. I have a decent sized yard in front of the house that wraps around to the back. The house itself is one of a group of ten houses connected by a small little land with no real traffic. There are several other cats around. And then they can easily climb back up to the second floor where they spent their youth and have that porch and a maze of rooftops.

However, despite how ideal it is there are other cats, including toms and at four months maybe they aren’t ready for the real world (although I think their mother managed to survive and rear them successful and she couldn’t have been much more than six months old when she had them.

So, my question is, what do you all think I should do:

1. One day this week take them all to the vet for their operations, keep them indoors for a week or so to recover, then just open the window in the room and let the roam, or
2. Wait a bit longer?

They need to be neutered/spayed. If you let them out now they will come back on their own for food, they will choose to sleep indoors when the weather outside is uncomfortable. But the females can get pregnant at 4 months. I think it doesn't happen a lot but it can happen so I would keep them in until they have surgery.

 

[BangkokKittens]

Oops. Posted that earlier. Here are two more cat photos and a brief explanation:

In the post above, the first and third photos are of the mother and cat gang post escape. The first one iOS from when she led them back around to show them the porch and where they had been held.

The second, fifth and the third on in this post are the garden area where they could live and play. This is where they were going crazy yesterday. Chasing each other around, climbing trees and perching photogenically on just about every thing.

The fourth photo is the ramp up to the trap room. When I free them, I would just plan to open the window and let them come and go for a few days before finally shutting the window.

The photos of the kittens are from the trap room. As I mentioned, they seem super healthy and are doing great. But they did all just huddle up on top of the cabinet most of the time, coming down to eat and play. While I am sure the is fine, it really does now seem like a prison (although a nice big one) compared to the garden. And they seem subdued indoors versus ecstatic outside, although I do realize that if they lived in the garden, they would rest and look subdued there sometimes too!

 

[dahli6]

Oops. Posted that earlier. Here are two more cat photos and a brief explanation:

In the post above, the first and third photos are of the mother and cat gang post escape. The first one iOS from when she led them back around to show them the porch and where they had been held.

The second, fifth and the third on in this post are the garden area where they could live and play. This is where they were going crazy yesterday. Chasing each other around, climbing trees and perching photogenically on just about every thing.

The fourth photo is the ramp up to the trap room. When I free them, I would just plan to open the window and let them come and go for a few days before finally shutting the window.

The photos of the kittens are from the trap room. As I mentioned, they seem super healthy and are doing great. But they did all just huddle up on top of the cabinet most of the time, coming down to eat and play. While I am sure the is fine, it really does now seem like a prison (although a nice big one) compared to the garden. And they seem subdued indoors versus ecstatic outside, although I do realize that if they lived in the garden, they would rest and look subdued there sometimes too!

I agree with you completely. Cats belong outside and they are happier being outside. When they are indoors they are stifled and it can be stressful for them. They want to hunt and climb trees. They want to lay in the sun and dig in the dirt. It isn't the safest and their life expectancy will be shorter but I often wonder what is the value of a miserable life.
All life has value but I think people extend life to save themselves from sorrow and they don't always consider the feelings of others while they do it.
The garden area is beautiful. It makes me think of the small wooded area behind my house where the outside cats often hunt and live.
I feel strongly that you should do the neuter as soon as you can so they can go back to enjoying life outside. If you let them play outside from time to time before then they could go back to being standoffish. Then you could have a problem. If one strays from the pack and goes feral it still might use your home as it's own home. A male cat will bring a female cat to be fed and then there would be more cats.

 

[BangkokKittens]

I agree with you completely. Cats belong outside and they are happier being outside. When they are indoors they are stifled and it can be stressful for them. They want to hunt and climb trees. They want to lay in the sun and dig in the dirt. It isn't the safest and their life expectancy will be shorter but I often wonder what is the value of a miserable life.
All life has value but I think people extend life to save themselves from sorrow and they don't always consider the feelings of others while they do it.
The garden area is beautiful. It makes me think of the small wooded area behind my house where the outside cats often hunt and live.
I feel strongly that you should do the neuter as soon as you can so they can go back to enjoying life outside. If you let them play outside from time to time before then they could go back to being standoffish. Then you could have a problem. If one strays from the pack and goes feral it still might use your home as it's own home. A male cat will bring a female cat to be fed and then there would be more cats.

I don't plan to ever let them play outside again before getting neutered. The great escape was not planned and I now check every door very carefully before I free then inside the house and am very careful when I leave, but there is always a risk. Perhaps the worst thing that could happen would be if one sneakily escaped and I didn't notice for a while. When they are all out downstairs, it is impossible to find them all at times. My guess is that it would stick around nearby and I could lure it back in, but there would be risk.

I know the world is dangerous and outside cats have shorter lifespans, but I really do think the place I live is unique. There are a few dogs around but all but one are tiny and behind fences. There is an occasional wanderer but it is old and used to cats. There is not a place within 200 feet in any direction where a car could move more than ten miles per hour. Even within a 1/4 mile there only other road is narrow and two cars can't pass. In my little community there are several cats and multiple cat lovers. I have been here for 17 years and have never heard of anything bad happening to a cat. I have the garden in front and a huge network of roofs in back.

There may be some risk from tomcats if they are harmful. But the main one seems to be their father and they have been around him. I do hope that once they are neutered, they will be ignored. I don't think their life indoors is miserable, but spending much of it in a 10 x 25 foot room obviously isn't ideal. I now have them out in the whole house more than half the time. But it isn't freedom!

I am happy get get your useful advice once again and am likely to follow it. I can't wait to see them outside again! Thank you

 

[Norachan]

A lot of us have indoor/outdoor cats. If you think they would be happier with some outdoor access you could keep the safe room as your cat room, where they can come back for food and to sleep, and let them go out. It's usually safer to let the out in the morning and keep them in at night.

They can be spayed and neutered at 3 months, if your vet is willing to do it at that age. If your vet wants to wait until 6 months then they should be kept indoors until then.

Tom cats don't usually bother with spayed and neutered cats. The best thing you could do is get neutered too. Do you think you have any chance of trapping him?