When Do You Know It's Time?

[huxleysmom]

This is a very positive optimistic sign! It's when the Vet does everything to "prop them up" one day, even two days in a row and it does not work. Not good.

Now if Huxley can just continue this upward projectory. Fingers crossed!

Fingers crossed indeed! I want him to stay there for as long as he needs to get over the flare up. I don't think he was ever given the right daily dose of steroids to get the inflammation under control in the first place. If he did, he shouldn't have flare ups every 3-4 weeks. At least I hope not!

 

[babiesmom5]

Your theory is correct. Let's hope Huxley gets a fresh start this time!

 

[huxleysmom]

Your theory is correct. Let's hope Huxley gets a fresh start this time!

The more I've been thinking about this, the more it makes sense. I remember a conversation with the vet a long time ago saying that he was not licking his lips when he was on 10mg, and before the vacation when we did his liver and sugar test she said all was good, but one result ahowed inflammation, but not to worry. OMG! How did that happen?!

 

[MizLizzie]

I am so sorry for what you and Huxley are going through. We have two IBD cats, a brother and sister. At age thirteen, they began swinging from bloody diarrhea to constipation. It took almost a year to get them stable. They are almost sixteen now. I can only imagine how hard it must be with a cat you just adopted, so bless you for being patient.

You've had good advice here. I will just add a few things that helped our guys. Depending on Huxley's weight, that seems like a low dose of pred. In a crisis, or prior to travel, a long acting shot can be given. We had no luck with compounded treats or liquids until we found BCP Pharmacy in Houston. They ship overnight, very reasonable. They will send a free sample of a prednisolone chew treat to your vet if he will request it using their online form. We can also give pred ground up in tuna juice, the kind packed in water. We drain one of the small cans and stir it in, but perhaps this won't work with Huxley's allergies. BCP also compounds Pepcid but we've had less luck with that. Walmart used to make tiny five mg generic Pepcid pills that you could cut into minuscule slivers but I've had trouble finding them of late. We pushed them into dehydrated chicken treats, like Halo. Pepcid has a propulsive effect on the colon so it would be great for Huxley, and will help keep down the nausea. My vet says pancreatitis often goes hand in hand with IBD in cats, and some must go on antibiotics pretty much full time. So far we have avoided it. Our male cat does fight with it off and on.

We have found it critical in both cats to keep fluid intake high. We mix warmed Swanson's UNSALTED chicken stock with their food and Miralax. (NOT broth. Broth apparently contains garlic and other things cats shouldn't have.) There is also now a special pet broth on the market. Can't recall the name but Chewy.com sells it. Again, maybe Huxley can't have this, but I throw it out. If you must, giving fluids at home is really not hard and cats come to love it but you aren't there yet, IMHO. The only food that has helped our little guys is canned Royal Canin gastrointestinal diet, the small cans, not the high calorie. However, Royal Canin also makes a completely purified food, I think it is called hydrolized, that is supposed to be a godsend for cats like Huxley. A Royal Canin nutritional expert will help you by phone. We found them super helpful.

I hope that maybe some little tidbit in all this will prove helpful to you and Huxley. IBD is a game of inches. I wish you the very best, and thank you for working so diligently for your cat.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

... He is currently on Pred (5mg a day every day), 1/4 Pepcid once a day and Miralax 1/8tsp a day.
..., but this time is doing a lot of lying around on his side, sleeping all day and also going from wanting to be left alone, to wanting to be on my lap all the time.

The vet told me to go up to 1/2 pepcid and add Cerenia too. She said if that wasn't working, we'd try pain meds (can't remember the name). She thinks he could also have pancreatitis.

Thr problem is he has stopped eating and I give him his meds in his food. I cannot pill him. He spits it all back out and then fears me for days.
Because of his mutliple allergies, it has been very hard to find something he can a) eat and b) not have severe allergic reactions to. The only thing I have found is Hound and Gatos pork wet food and Hills Science sensitive stomach dry (though it is full of grains and I would like to wean him off of that if possible).

I have lost count of how many times we have been to the vet, how many combinations and dosage of meds we have tried and it's always the same result. He gets well for a few weeks though we have never managed to get rid of the nausea, then one day the same thing starts again. Worsening of nausea, lethargy, no more eating...
.
I am going to bring him to the bet again and maybe have them board him. Maybe do the complete blood work they recommended last time and hopefully they can get him past this bump.
...

Did the vet and you ever give him consistent pain medication, in addition to the other meds she suggested?

I got an update from the vet's office just now. He seems to have eaten a good amount today so is getting better. His vet will give me a more detailed update tomorrow and will let me know when I can take him home. Feeling a little relieved.

It's very possible that the vet has put him on pain meds there, along with being able to get the regular meds into him... that may have helped with his eating.

 

[huxleysmom]

He has been put on pain meds now for sure. I don't know if it's something we'll have to continue when he comes back. He's never had to be put on it before as he never appeared in pain. He was always nauseous to various degree, but never lethargic and looking miserable from constant pain like that. This was by far his roughest patch so far.

Did the vet and you ever give him consistent pain medication, in addition to the other meds she suggested?



It's very possible that the vet has put him on pain meds there, along with being able to get the regular meds into him... that may have helped with his eating.

 

[huxleysmom]

Thank you for this. He is my first cat ever as an adult, and his problems pretty much started 2 or 3 days after I got him. Started with vomiting once a week and bad allergy symptoms like wheezing, paw chewing,nasty ear wax build up and chin acne. The vet continued to believe it was most likely food allergies, and by the time it got real bad, I was so in love with this little guy, there was NO WAY I was bringing him back. He is the gentlest little soul I have ever met. Not a single mean bone in this boy's body. For example, when he has had enough of me petting him somewhere, he gently paws my hand away and continues to purr away while resting his paw on my hand.

I believe you are right with the pred dose. He is a little over 11lbs and I don't think 5mg/day ever got the inflammation down in the first place. I was ready to give him a steroid shot before I left as he went through a flare up right before I left, but he perked up after being put on Miralax twice a day and an receiving an enema. The vet was also worried about him having a bad reaction to such a high dose, so we didn't do it. Next time I leave for so long, I will definitely do it! You live and you learn, right?!
As far as medicine in liquids or treat form, it's very difficult because of his multiple allergies. It's the same with food. Trying to find a wet food that has no poultry, soy or legumes in it is hard! His allergy test also says he is allergic to fish, lamb and beef, though I cannot believe he is allergic to all meats but pork. Right now he is on Hound and Gatos pork, but I am not sure the gum in it agrees with him. The problem is most commercial wet has either some kind of gum, or legumes as binders. Because of the no pea rule, dry food is out of the question too. I only found one that fits his very challenging criteria (Hills Science sensitive stomach, which has lots of grains, but only pork meal and hydrolized chicken, which he seems to tolerate as far as allergy reactions are concerned). Because of poultry allergies, commercial broth or stock would not work either. Though I was thinking of trying goats milk. Not sure if it would help for hydration though. I have in times of despair, when he wouldn't eat anything, used tuna juice and those tuna liquid treats in a tube to hide medicine in. It worked once or twice (luckily without allergic reactions from him, so maybe I could try fish) but he then refused them. Not sure if it was because he could taste the meds or was just too nauseous to eat.
I did not know Royal Canin had nutritional experts, I could definitely get in touch to see. I know he does not react to Hydrolyzed chicken. A lot of these foods come with hydrolized soy, I don't know how he would do with that.
He has also been on pepcid for a few weeks now. Not sure if it is helping his bathroom issues as he is taking Miralax and and now also slipper elm. It's certainly not stopping him from being nauseous.

So many pieces to that awful complex puzzle, it makes my head spin. Right now, I take comfort knowing he is on the right path to get over this bad bump on the road, and hope that a serious re-evaluation of the steroid dose will do the trick. He is an extremely scaredy cat (I can't even put a little bit of food on his nose without him freaking out and hiding from me for hours) if I have to restrain him several times a day to syringe medicine in him, feed him that way, or give him injections or any other treatments like that for the rest of his life would just stress him to no end, and make him fear me. I do not want him to fear me, or live in stress wonderind when he will be constrained or poked at again. He would not understand. He is suffering enough, and needs to feel safe with me. I strongly believe it would not be a good quality of life for wither of us so I hope we won't have to get to that,

I am so sorry for what you and Huxley are going through. We have two IBD cats, a brother and sister. At age thirteen, they began swinging from bloody diarrhea to constipation. It took almost a year to get them stable. They are almost sixteen now. I can only imagine how hard it must be with a cat you just adopted, so bless you for being patient.

You've had good advice here. I will just add a few things that helped our guys. Depending on Huxley's weight, that seems like a low dose of pred. In a crisis, or prior to travel, a long acting shot can be given. We had no luck with compounded treats or liquids until we found BCP Pharmacy in Houston. They ship overnight, very reasonable. They will send a free sample of a prednisolone chew treat to your vet if he will request it using their online form. We can also give pred ground up in tuna juice, the kind packed in water. We drain one of the small cans and stir it in, but perhaps this won't work with Huxley's allergies. BCP also compounds Pepcid but we've had less luck with that. Walmart used to make tiny five mg generic Pepcid pills that you could cut into minuscule slivers but I've had trouble finding them of late. We pushed them into dehydrated chicken treats, like Halo. Pepcid has a propulsive effect on the colon so it would be great for Huxley, and will help keep down the nausea. My vet says pancreatitis often goes hand in hand with IBD in cats, and some must go on antibiotics pretty much full time. So far we have avoided it. Our male cat does fight with it off and on.

We have found it critical in both cats to keep fluid intake high. We mix warmed Swanson's UNSALTED chicken stock with their food and Miralax. (NOT broth. Broth apparently contains garlic and other things cats shouldn't have.) There is also now a special pet broth on the market. Can't recall the name but Chewy.com sells it. Again, maybe Huxley can't have this, but I throw it out. If you must, giving fluids at home is really not hard and cats come to love it but you aren't there yet, IMHO. The only food that has helped our little guys is canned Royal Canin gastrointestinal diet, the small cans, not the high calorie. However, Royal Canin also makes a completely purified food, I think it is called hydrolized, that is supposed to be a godsend for cats like Huxley. A Royal Canin nutritional expert will help you by phone. We found them super helpful.

I hope that maybe some little tidbit in all this will prove helpful to you and Huxley. IBD is a game of inches. I wish you the very best, and thank you for working so diligently for your cat.

 

[MizLizzie]

Here is the link to Royal Canin's sensitivity diets: Hypoallergenic Food for Cats & Dogs with Food Sensitivities | Royal Canin You can also get the phone number there. One of their foods has apparently been hydrolyzed down to unrecognizable proteins, but they assure me it is palatable and nutritious. I have in the back of my mind, however, that it is a dry food, so you would need to wet it with something.

Have you ever fed rabbit? Or have you tried feeding Huxley raw food? I forgot to mention that our guys do eat raw rabbit and raw duck-goose from Stella & Chewy. They get it every morning for breakfast with the warm broth (which Huxley could not have) and we add the MiraLAX at that time. It is an excellent food, but hard to get in some areas. We have found that many of the places who say they stock it merely keep a couple of bags in a self-defrosting freezer, and it's been there since the Stone Age, so the nibblets get frozen into a solid clump. Our cats won't touch it then. And we have also used canned rabbit, a limited ingredient version, made by Nature's Variety. They make some excellent limited ingredient foods, but I think they all contain peas.

For liquid supplementation, I wonder if Huxley could have KMR? I know in general an adult cat shouldn't have it, but it would provide nutrition and hydration. Has anyone here ever given KMR to an adult cat? At some point, given Huxley's complicated problems, the notion of an ideal diet may have to be surrendered in favor of anything he can eat. Some folks do cook ground pork or beef and add vitamin powder. And I believe I saw Swanson has added a seafood stock to their lineup but no clue what is in it.

Well, at this point, I am just throwing out random stuff, probably none of it helpful. I really feel for your situation. I wish I had a perfect solution.

 

[huxleysmom]

Huxley has tried many hypoallergenic Royal Cannin foods (venison, rabbit, duck) borh dry and wet, but had allergic reactions while on them. That's how we figured his problem was peas and soy. We never tried the Hydrolized one though. I tried to give him Wild Calling rabbit wet food a few weeks after to see if he could handle rabbit thinking since it had no allergens in it, he may do fine, but he vomitted it instantly once he started eating a big amount of it.

I don't know what KMR is. At the moment, when he eats, he is maintaining his wet, and even putting some one if I don't control his portions so he is still getting good nutrients in, as long as he eats of course. It's the hydration that I need to keep an eye on apparently.
I'll look into the seafood stock. I have also seen a fish raw food from stella and chewy that I may try and see how he reacts to that. It looks like it also has pre or probiotic in it already. I have tried rad cat raw pork and he wouldn't touch it.
Ultimately, like my vet says, the most important is for him to eat, so we may have to compromise on a less than perfect diet for him in terms of IBD.

The vet's office called me this morning to say that since he's eaten his dry food, he can go home. I guess they forgot the "let's try to wean him off of dry food while he is here" option. I want to speak with the vet directly before I bring him back home though as I need to make sure he eats all of the wet food or he'll be back there in a couple of days when I can't give him meds anymore. I want him back as I miss him sooo much, but I want him to be well before he gets back. I may also try to reschedule the ultrasound so that I can take him there straight from the vet so I don't have to stress him with taking him out of the house again. We shall see if I can make that happen.
Thank you for all of your advice. I truly appreciate it!

Here is the link to Royal Canin's sensitivity diets: Hypoallergenic Food for Cats & Dogs with Food Sensitivities | Royal Canin You can also get the phone number there. One of their foods has apparently been hydrolyzed down to unrecognizable proteins, but they assure me it is palatable and nutritious. I have in the back of my mind, however, that it is a dry food, so you would need to wet it with something.

Have you ever fed rabbit? Or have you tried feeding Huxley raw food? I forgot to mention that our guys do eat raw rabbit and raw duck-goose from Stella & Chewy. They get it every morning for breakfast with the warm broth (which Huxley could not have) and we add the MiraLAX at that time. It is an excellent food, but hard to get in some areas. We have found that many of the places who say they stock it merely keep a couple of bags in a self-defrosting freezer, and it's been there since the Stone Age, so the nibblets get frozen into a solid clump. Our cats won't touch it then. And we have also used canned rabbit, a limited ingredient version, made by Nature's Variety. They make some excellent limited ingredient foods, but I think they all contain peas.

For liquid supplementation, I wonder if Huxley could have KMR? I know in general an adult cat shouldn't have it, but it would provide nutrition and hydration. Has anyone here ever given KMR to an adult cat? At some point, given Huxley's complicated problems, the notion of an ideal diet may have to be surrendered in favor of anything he can eat. Some folks do cook ground pork or beef and add vitamin powder. And I believe I saw Swanson has added a seafood stock to their lineup but no clue what is in it.

Well, at this point, I am just throwing out random stuff, probably none of it helpful. I really feel for your situation. I wish I had a perfect solution.

 

[huxleysmom]

Huxley is back!!!! He seems to be doing well, though he runs away from me at the moment! Hope that won't last ling.
I am a little upset at the vet though as they ended up feeding him ONLY dry food! Apparently he wouldn't eat the wet so they gave him dry instead. So now what do I do?? I can't pill him. Her answer was syringe him. Well, that's easy for her to offer that, but i know this will affect my relationship with Huey greatly if I have to do this everyday.
She did mention long term steroid shots though if nothing works, but it is more likely to end in diabetes.

She also refused to give him 10mg/day. She says she never does it as it can cause lots of problems long term (other than diabetes). She says the specialist on Monday may well prescribe it, but she doesn't. So I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens on Monday. In the meantime, I hope I can get him to at least eat a small portion of wet so he can get the pred in.

 

[huxleysmom]

.....and relax.
It took him a while, but I think he finally forgave me! He has also eaten 2 portions of wet food since being back, one without any meds in it, and one with slippery Elm. I haven't seen much lip licking so far. I'll stick with the Cerenia for a few days. See how it goes.

 

[huxleysmom]

Huxley is getting nauseous again (wven with pepcic and Cerenia) he's also starting to be lethargic and is not interested in playing. No pooping either. This didn't last long. We shall see what the ultrasound and specialist say on Monday

 

[babiesmom5]

What is the dosage of Cerenia you are giving?

 

[huxleysmom]

What is the dosage of Cerenia you are giving?

1/4 pill. He is not eating well, and I have failed to pill him so far. He has eaten about 2/3rd of the food with the pred in it so he hasn't had his full dose. He's been sleeping all day. This is so hard.

 

[babiesmom5]

Cerenia comes in two pill forms: 24 mg (purple box) and 16 mg(green box).

Vets, including mine, normally prescribe 1/2 of a 16 mg pill for nausea. It is pretty effective.
If you are giving 1/4 of a 16 mg pill, that may not provide therapeutic effect.

Plus if he is not getting his full dosage of Pred due to not eating, inflammation is probably creeping back again. Not good.

If your Vet is open tomorrow, I would tell her what is happening. Perhaps she could give an injection of Cerenia (more potent and effective), and possibly another short acting steroid shot to tide you over until Monday.

I would ask if your Vet sells a pill popper. Most do. If so, I would ask a tech to show you how to use it to get the pills down the throat.

I would try to get Huxley propped up before he gets too far in the weeds again.

 

[huxleysmom]

They are not open tomorrow. I am going to try and get a pill popper tomorrow from the local stores and see if I can at least give him his pred. I have an appointment on Monday for the ultrasound. I'll ask them to give him a steroid shot. I might actually do the long term shot. Huxley is now hiding from me, and it's only day one of me trying to pill him. He's eaten some Cereni grounded in the dry food and seems less nauseous. between the medical boarding, all the meds they gave him (including a Cerenia and steroid shots), and the ultrasound+consult on Monday I have spent $1500 this week alone. I cannot afford to being him to the emergency vet tomorrow on top of that. I couldn't afford the $1500 to start with. He is my first cat. I am doing my best, but I am lost.
I contacted the shelter I got him from to ask for financial support, and also told them how bad it was from them to give out cats for adoptions that clearly have serious medical issues). She says it's been too long and I should have contacted them before, but she'll try and see with the big boss if they can help me.

Cerenia comes in two pill forms: 24 mg (purple box) and 16 mg(green box).

Vets, including mine, normally prescribe 1/2 of a 16 mg pill for nausea. It is pretty effective.
If you are giving 1/4 of a 16 mg pill, that may not provide therapeutic effect.

Plus if he is not getting his full dosage of Pred due to not eating, inflammation is probably creeping back again. Not good.

If your Vet is open tomorrow, I would tell her what is happening. Perhaps she could give an injection of Cerenia (more potent and effective), and possibly another short acting steroid shot to tide you over until Monday.

I would ask if your Vet sells a pill popper. Most do. If so, I would ask a tech to show you how to use it to get the pills down the throat.

I would try to get Huxley propped up before he gets too far in the weeds again.

 

[babiesmom5]

Have you tried "Pill Pockets"? They are soft, flavored treats and have a hole in them. You put the pill in the hole and form the soft treat around it. They come in chicken and salmon flavor...most cats prefer the salmon flavor. Petsmart, Petco etc. sells it. They run about $5 a package. It might be worth a try.

Will Huxley eat baby food chicken? Can you put his med in his wet food and sprinkle a bit of crushed dry food on top? Just trying to think of moist things to get him to eat.

I really feel for you. I know you are trying.

 

[huxleysmom]

Because of his allergy to chicken pill pokets are out of the question.I have tried the pork baby food, but he will only lick a bit of it and leave it (even without meds in it). I also tired the crushed dry food. Didn't work. Until now he was so good at eating itin his wet, but somehow I think thewet foodmakes him more nauseous than the dry.

Have you tried "Pill Pockets"? They are soft, flavored treats and have a hole in them. You put the pill in the hole and form the soft treat around it. They come in chicken and salmon flavor...most cats prefer the salmon flavor. Petsmart, Petco etc. sells it. They run about $5 a package. It might be worth a try.

Will Huxley eat baby food chicken? Can you put his med in his wet food and sprinkle a bit of crushed dry food on top? Just trying to think of moist things to get him to eat.

I really feel for you. I know you are trying.

 

[huxleysmom]

I have also tried tuna juice, tuna liquidy treats that come in a tube, put the pill in some of the wet food and put it in the middle of wet food that doesn't have meds in it... you name it, I have tried it.

 

[lavishsqualor]

Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and Huxley. You're a wonderful custodian and he's incredibly fortunate to have you. I love his name!