Probably domestic longhair cats, very beautiful!
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
What Is My Cats Breed? Is It A Persian?
- Thread starter Faraaz khan
- Start Date
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 7,565
- Purraise
- 9,600
They could have some Persian influence, though, their faces are fairly flat. The daughter looks like a blue and the mother looks like a lilac.
Yes, I do see Turkish Angora!
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 7,565
- Purraise
- 9,600
Just to clarify, my post was replying to the pictures of these other two cats.
Everyone likes to imagine rare breeds but the reality is rarely that. Aside from all Turkish Angora's being registered, there are many differences that the breed has. They have ears that are larger/closer together, the ear hair points up not out, their skulls are smaller/narrower and longer. Like this kitten:
These are actually really tough - possibly a mix. Do you have a picture of the father? Looking at the mother I thought like tarasgirl06 that it might be DLH but the kitten wouldn't look like that if it was... the other question I have is whether or not the mother's ear hair has been trimmed?
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 8,674
- Purraise
- 34,616
That's an RW, SGC Turkish Angora named Antioch Tulum Peyniri. He placed 4th in last year's TICA standingsJMJimmy I was hoping this guy was an Angora, but from the above description, I guess not, eh?
View attachment 181761
.
This is the one who beat him by about 5x the score
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 8,674
- Purraise
- 34,616
.
Yep; one of Kit Goodwin's boys from right her in the Region. Notice the ear placement - exactly the reason that the Breed Standards allot so little to placement in Angoras.
.
Yep; one of Kit Goodwin's boys from right her in the Region. Notice the ear placement - exactly the reason that the Breed Standards allot so little to placement in Angoras.
.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 7,565
- Purraise
- 9,600
1CatOverTheLine
, I apologize for asking what may be a trivial question, but how can you tell who bred a certain cat? I am familiar CFA's breeds and decent at identifying a cat's breed, but far from telling a cat's breeder simply by a picture. Can you do this because there are slight differences in each breeder's line?
Yeah I wasn't trying to be exhaustive/perfect in my description - just some of the broad things to look at.
That second set of cats posted by @Faraaz has me really puzzled though. Mostly looks DLH but that concave nose bridge combined with the arched nose really has me curious
She's beautiful whatever her mix is!!!
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 8,674
- Purraise
- 34,616
.
jmjimmy - the point was that almost any determination of breed ancestry based upon the Breed Standard of one or another sanctioning body is, at best, a wild guess. Genetic trait determiners - a blue-eyed colourpoint, for example, isn't an accident, and we can safely maintain that the cs gene at the C locus has come into play owed to Siamese heritage without the need to examine the DNA markers, just as we can conclude, and not simply surmise, that the Van Pattern in a cat of unknown heritage is owed to she or he being heterozygous for Sv - can offer a glimpse into an unknown cat's background, but basing a breed ancestry determination upon physical characteristics is simply a gamble.
That aside, there are breeders of two types - those whose goal it is to improve a breed by change, as well as those whose goal is to maintain the older standards of a breed (i.e. the so-called "Applehead" Siamese, the traditional, softer-lined Turkish Angora, et al) - whose cats simply don't conform to the ever-changing Breed Standards of certain probably well-meaning but perhaps misguided sanctioning bodies, and those cats still Grand because there remains a cadre of All Breed judges who are willing to set aside the proclamations of TICA, CFA, and cetera, and to judge with the wisdom of old age and experience.
As to, "all Turkish Angora's [sic] being registered," I'm afraid it simply isn't the case. Aside from several breeders who don't even show any longer, but who continue to breed fabulous cats, and at least three who spring to mind who either make an habit of giving kittens as gifts to Friends, or who don't register some kittens because of inherited characteristics (not to mention those few who fail to pass their medical exam), the Turkish Angora can still be found in households - and wandering the streets - in population settlements in the Tuz Golu region from Samsun to Usak, and from Karabuk nearly to the Syrian border to Turkey's south, and their genetics are doubtless more pure and "true to the breed" than any cat from any cattery worldwide.
§ § §
Abyeb - there are a few breeders whose cats are almost instantly recognisable because they've characteristics which border upon the unique. Meg Lambert's (Ruddy) Abyssinians stand out for their coat consistency; Amanda Bright's Russian Blues are unmistakable for their chiselled head conformation; Judy and David Bernbaum's Maine Coons' classic muzzles and lynx tips can be spotted across a crowded show floor, and Alice Billman's Siamese so closely channel Eva Walker (Lady Vyvyan)'s fin de siècle Palace Thais that the resemblance is uncanny.
Over the forty or so years that I travelled for business, I always managed to find time to attend shows in Europe and in Russia as well as in America. I've a close Friend who's a venerable All Breed Judge and past Siamese and Abyssinian breeder whom I've known for nearly half a century (and who's spent nearly that long judging), who's shared a few tips and some of the finer points learned over the course of being a part of the Cat Fancy since the very late 1950s (incidentally, your kitty always makes me think of him, since his first cat was named, "Charlie," as well).
The real answer is that you simply can't attribute a cat to a particular breeder or cattery, but you can make some pretty shrewd guesses with a little bit of luck after attending almost a thousand shows.
.
jmjimmy - the point was that almost any determination of breed ancestry based upon the Breed Standard of one or another sanctioning body is, at best, a wild guess. Genetic trait determiners - a blue-eyed colourpoint, for example, isn't an accident, and we can safely maintain that the cs gene at the C locus has come into play owed to Siamese heritage without the need to examine the DNA markers, just as we can conclude, and not simply surmise, that the Van Pattern in a cat of unknown heritage is owed to she or he being heterozygous for Sv - can offer a glimpse into an unknown cat's background, but basing a breed ancestry determination upon physical characteristics is simply a gamble.
That aside, there are breeders of two types - those whose goal it is to improve a breed by change, as well as those whose goal is to maintain the older standards of a breed (i.e. the so-called "Applehead" Siamese, the traditional, softer-lined Turkish Angora, et al) - whose cats simply don't conform to the ever-changing Breed Standards of certain probably well-meaning but perhaps misguided sanctioning bodies, and those cats still Grand because there remains a cadre of All Breed judges who are willing to set aside the proclamations of TICA, CFA, and cetera, and to judge with the wisdom of old age and experience.
As to, "all Turkish Angora's [sic] being registered," I'm afraid it simply isn't the case. Aside from several breeders who don't even show any longer, but who continue to breed fabulous cats, and at least three who spring to mind who either make an habit of giving kittens as gifts to Friends, or who don't register some kittens because of inherited characteristics (not to mention those few who fail to pass their medical exam), the Turkish Angora can still be found in households - and wandering the streets - in population settlements in the Tuz Golu region from Samsun to Usak, and from Karabuk nearly to the Syrian border to Turkey's south, and their genetics are doubtless more pure and "true to the breed" than any cat from any cattery worldwide.
§ § §
Abyeb - there are a few breeders whose cats are almost instantly recognisable because they've characteristics which border upon the unique. Meg Lambert's (Ruddy) Abyssinians stand out for their coat consistency; Amanda Bright's Russian Blues are unmistakable for their chiselled head conformation; Judy and David Bernbaum's Maine Coons' classic muzzles and lynx tips can be spotted across a crowded show floor, and Alice Billman's Siamese so closely channel Eva Walker (Lady Vyvyan)'s fin de siècle Palace Thais that the resemblance is uncanny.
Over the forty or so years that I travelled for business, I always managed to find time to attend shows in Europe and in Russia as well as in America. I've a close Friend who's a venerable All Breed Judge and past Siamese and Abyssinian breeder whom I've known for nearly half a century (and who's spent nearly that long judging), who's shared a few tips and some of the finer points learned over the course of being a part of the Cat Fancy since the very late 1950s (incidentally, your kitty always makes me think of him, since his first cat was named, "Charlie," as well).
The real answer is that you simply can't attribute a cat to a particular breeder or cattery, but you can make some pretty shrewd guesses with a little bit of luck after attending almost a thousand shows.
.
I agree that it is not accurate to genetics, or expressive of the full ancestry. Breeds are artificial constructs to describe grouped characteristics. We're constantly learning that our visual observations are not supported by genetics. That said, the traits of these artificial constructs allow laypersons to categorize their pets in a way that's meaningful to them. My cat displays the predominant traits of "x and y" breeds is harmless to say even if the genetics show it's a mix of 6-7 different cats. No one goes around saying "My cat is ATGCTTCGGG..." because it holds no meaning for them.
By that I simply meant that Angora's that don't have a registered lineage tracing back to Turkey are generally considered simply Angora.
It's like me saying I'm Irish Canadian. In reality I have ancestors from a half dozen nations from Northern Africa to the Eastern Block and the group that came to Canada was British... but I've got orange hair, pale skin, and a bunch of ancestors from Ireland so I say I'm of Irish decent. Harmless categorization based on visual traits not genetics.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 7,565
- Purraise
- 9,600
Very cool! I've been to a few shows, so I'm getting to know a few breeders (like I can recognize a blue Aby from Zehnder), but I have a lot to learn before I have your kind of experience.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 8,674
- Purraise
- 34,616
