Warning - Call of the Wild high in iodine

mschauer

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I noticed recently that as per information on the Wysong web site Call of the Wild, used as a pre-mix supplement by some raw feeders, appears to have a very high level of iodine. I contacted a Wysong representative to verify the information on the web site and was told me that it is actually incorrect. The web site says COTW contains 94.5 mg/kg DM but the company rep says it is actually 45.5 mg/kg DM. But even the lower value is a concern to me.

Based on the information from the company rep, 1 tsp of COTW = 3.6 g (which also differs from what is on the web site) and contains 45.5 mg I/kg DM. That works out to be 9.7 mg I/kg DM.

There is much conflicting opinion over the recommended amount of iodine for cats but all opinions are far below what is in COTW:

AAFCO : 0.35 mg/kg DM
FEDIAF : 0.5 mg/kg DM
NRC: 1.4 mg/kg DM

According to one study the NRC recommendation seems to be considered too high:

http://www.2ndchance.info/lowIodine-Wedekind2009.pdf 

Most recent sources I've found put the recommended iodine intake for cats at 0.46 mg/kg DM.

There is no determined safe upper limit for iodine intake in cats but the above study suggests 5.8 mg/kg DM which agrees with what I've seen elsewhere.

I don't think it can be definitively stated that COTW contains an unsafe level of iodine but there does seem to be evidence that it may well. Given the believed correlation between hyperthyroidism and dietary iodine levels that are either too high or too low I think anyone using COTW might want to consider changing to another product.
 

ldg

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mschauer, I REALLY appreciate all the work you put into this, and thank you SO MUCH for following up on the (at the time potential) problem.

:sigh:

Lazlo has done so well with it, and he won't eat organs. But in the hopes that he'll remain in remission for many years, I don't want to risk hyper-T. So I'll be putting him on the same diet Spooky eats, using cod liver oil for vitamin A instead of liver (as neither will eat fresh liver or reliably eat even enough freeze dried liver in any given day), and the homemade supplement.
 
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mschauer

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Based on the information from the company rep, 1 tsp of COTW = 3.6 g (which also differs from what is on the web site) and contains 45.5 mg I/kg DM. That works out to be 9.7 mg I/kg DM.
That last bit doesn't make sense by itself. What I should have written:

Wysong says to use 1 tsp COTW per 3 oz (85 g) of raw meat. That makes a food that has 0.1638 mg I/85 g AF.

Assuming the food has a fairly typical moisture content of about 80% that becomes 0.1638 mg I/17 g DM or 9.7 mg I/kg DM. 

Also, if the moisture content is 75% which is also fairly common the iodine content would be lower at about 7.7 mg/kg DM.

I realize there probably aren't too many people who are interested in the gory details of the calculations but just in case there is one or two I wanted to clarify. 
 
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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Great...I just recommended Call of the Wild to someone
.  Plus Darko likes it
.  And he really doesn't care for Alnutrin....now what?  (retorical question) 
 

aprilprey

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Issues like this are why I like rotating recipes and premixes.  Also, its supposed to be for cats and dogs...do dogs have higher iodine needs?
 
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mschauer

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 Also, its supposed to be for cats and dogs...do dogs have higher iodine needs?
I don't have the AAFCO recommendations for dogs handy but the FEDIAF recommendation is 1.1 mg/kg DM. Higher than for cats but still far below what is in COTW.  
 
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ldg

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Great...I just recommended Call of the Wild to someone :sigh: .  Plus Darko likes it :( .  And he really doesn't care for Alnutrin....now what?  (retorical question) 
Sally, you want the revised homemade vitamin mix mschauer helped me work out? And I'm using cod liver oil for Lazlo and Spooky for their vitamin A. When I get my act together, mschauer has kindly offered to analyze Lazlo's diet for me, to make sure it's all covered.
 

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Great...I just recommended Call of the Wild to someone
.  Plus Darko likes it
.  And he really doesn't care for Alnutrin....now what?  (retorical question) 
Sally, you want the revised homemade vitamin mix mschauer helped me work out? And I'm using cod liver oil for Lazlo and Spooky for their vitamin A. When I get my act together, mschauer has kindly offered to analyze Lazlo's diet for me, to make sure it's all covered.
@LDG, so the cod liver oil can completely take the place of LIVER?  That's so interesting!  I really should try Darko on liver again, though, because I think he might be able to tolerate it as long as I don't give it to him in large portions.  Last time I fed it to him I gave him a full meal of it
.  So when he
a few minutes later, I just assumed he couldn't tolerate it.  Since then I have read a lot about how many cats can't tolerate it by itself, but honestly I've not tried to give it to him again, especially since he started on Call of the Wild right after that, so it was just easier to do that.  But I pulled out my Alnutrin with Eggshell Powder today to try that again, only I need DH to help me with the conversion for how much to feed since he's a math wizard.  I thought I had it written down already, but much have misplaced the paper, darn it. 

So, I have your old recipe for your homemade vitamin mix.  You sent it to me in a pm on 12/17/12.  Has it changed since then?  If so, then yes please...guess I might need it
 

ldg

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Yes, it has changed. We adjusted the iodine level, and I think I added some taurine. :lol3:

Cod liver oil isn't an ideal replacement for liver, but it does provide the vitamin A (and some vitamin D). The diet analyzed for Spooky was balanced, but doesn't reflect the new vitamin mix.

I'll work on putting the info together for mschauer later, and she'll analyze it when she can. When we've got that, I'll post it.
 

ldg

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mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens I'm sorry, mschauer ran the analyses for me back in December. :anon: She ran several different analysis with differing amounts of iodine targeted.

In the end, I decided to target about the AAFCO minimum, assuming there is iodine in the diet, that *shouldn't* take us over the max recommended (in literature, as there is no max as per either AAFCO or FEDIAF).

Now - this is preliminary, because I haven't made the new batch with the adjusted amount of supplements yet, so I can't tell you how MUCH of this would need to be added per meal. I'll be making it in a few days, so I'll report back on the measurement needed per ounce of food.

But the supplement is going to contain (and is meant to be used to balance 50 pounds of food):

7 capsules of Twinlabs 10mg manganese
15 tablets of the NOW standardized kelp (150mcg tablets)
2 NOW dry vitamin E capsules (400iu per cap)
25 NOW 1,000mg taurine capsules
2 capsules of the Natural Factors Hi-Potency B complex (50mg)

******************************************************


As to the cod liver oil (for cats not eating liver, whether fresh or freeze dried), just one capsule of the Twinlab Norwegian Cod Liver Oil softgels (recommended dose for people is two - the kitties need just ONE a day) (more than) provides the vitamin A and D they need. I cut back on the amount of salmon oil Spooky and Lazlo get - and if they EAT any freeze dried liver, we're still not anywhere close to approaching max recommended levels of vitamin A.

I'm sure there's a better cod liver oil supplement out there - this is just what was available at the pharmacy at the time. The profile of ONE capsule is:

Vitamin A 1,250iu
Vitamin D 135iu

I just pill them with it as neither likes it. It's small, goes down quick and easy. ;)
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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@LDG, have you figured out how much to use per oz of food yet?  I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in this thread, although YOU may be the only one making 50 lbs of food at a time
 

ldg

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:lol3: SORRY! Yes, I have the amount. And the info that it is meant for 50 pounds of food is the information needed to calculate how much to use per ounce. When I make the stuff, I measure out how many teaspoons it is - and then divide that by (50 pounds x 16 ounces = 800 ounces).

It was 10.25 teaspoons of vitamin mix: that works out to a very slightly rounded 1/32 teaspoon per 3 ounces of food.

My cats eat three meals a day:

Some eat one ounce meals (total 3 oz per day)
Some eat 1.2 ounce meals (total 3.6 oz per day)
Some eat 1.5 ounce meals (total 4.5 oz per day)

I sprinkle the vitamin mix onto the morning meal - the amount needed for the entire day.

The 3 ounce per day kitties get a slightly rounded 1/32 teaspoon (the Smidgen in the Norpro mini measuring spoon set). (The correct amount is 1/26 teaspoon).

The 3.6 ounce per day kitties get a scant 3/64 teaspoon. (The correct amount is 3/65 teaspoon).

The 4.5 ounce per day kitties get a light 1/16 teaspoon (The technical correct amount is 3/52 teaspoon - which is really close to 3.5 1/64ths).

Let me know if that needs clarifying. ;) Next time, I'm going to bump the taurine, just to see if I can get to a volume of "stuff" that measure out more easily. ;)
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Great!  Thanks, Laurie.  You're always so helpful
 

rickjames

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I contacted Wysong regarding this. They responded that their 35 years feeding hundreds of thousands of animals and humans, with no iodine or thyroid problems, denies the concern about this product.

They additionally gave me this very interesting link ( http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/iodine.php  ) proving that iodine deficiency in our modern world is the problem, not its excess. It seems that iodinephobia is a myth that has simply been perpetuated by people and doctors with no real supporting evidence.

I will continue to use Wysong with total confidence, as I have for the past fifteen years. Dr. Wysong, unique in the entire industry, is the only one who cuts through the bull.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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I contacted Wysong regarding this. They responded that their 35 years feeding hundreds of thousands of animals and humans, with no iodine or thyroid problems, denies the concern about this product.

They additionally gave me this very interesting link ( http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/iodine.php  ) proving that iodine deficiency in our modern world is the problem, not its excess. It seems that iodinephobia is a myth that has simply been perpetuated by people and doctors with no real supporting evidence.

I will continue to use Wysong with total confidence, as I have for the past fifteen years. Dr. Wysong, unique in the entire industry, is the only one who cuts through the bull.
I have to admit that I'm still using it too.  I googled around and could find nothing more on this topic, and figured if it were really bad, there would be more info out there. 
 
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mschauer

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I contacted Wysong regarding this. They responded that their 35 years feeding hundreds of thousands of animals and humans, with no iodine or thyroid problems, denies the concern about this product.

They additionally gave me this very interesting link ( http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/iodine.php  ) proving that iodine deficiency in our modern world is the problem, not its excess. It seems that iodinephobia is a myth that has simply been perpetuated by people and doctors with no real supporting evidence.

I will continue to use Wysong with total confidence, as I have for the past fifteen years. Dr. Wysong, unique in the entire industry, is the only one who cuts through the bull.
I think if you re-read the first post of the thread you will find it contains nothing that even remotely resembles "myth" or "iodinephobia". It contains nothing but facts.

From the first post:
 
I don't think it can be definitively stated that COTW contains an unsafe level of iodine but there does seem to be evidence that it may well. Given the believed correlation between hyperthyroidism and dietary iodine levels that are either too high or too low I think anyone using COTW might want to consider changing to another product.
Call of the Wild contains a level of iodine that is far above what is generally recommended. That is a fact. Hyperthyroidism in cats is far more prevalent today than in the past and high levels of dietary iodine has been theorized to be a possible cause. That is a fact. The information in this thread is provided so that anyone wishing to take the prudent approach and not feed iodine levels far above recommended levels can be aware that COTW may not be a product they want to use.

BTW, have you asked yourself how Wysong could possibly know that "hundreds or thousands of animals and pets" have consumed their products with no "iodine or thyroid problems?" Do they really imagine that they would be contacted every time an animal that eats their food develops a thyroid problem??????
 

ldg

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I contacted Wysong regarding this. They responded that their 35 years feeding hundreds of thousands of animals and humans, with no iodine or thyroid problems, denies the concern about this product.
How could they possibly know? That statement alone makes me mistrust them. :(

I'm far too tired to read that hugely long article - that is ALL about humans. I personally feel much more comfortable following the thinking of the country's leading expert on feline hyper-T.
 

peaches08

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I contacted Wysong regarding this. They responded that their 35 years feeding hundreds of thousands of animals and humans, with no iodine or thyroid problems, denies the concern about this product.

They additionally gave me this very interesting link ( http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/iodine.php  ) proving that iodine deficiency in our modern world is the problem, not its excess. It seems that iodinephobia is a myth that has simply been perpetuated by people and doctors with no real supporting evidence.

I will continue to use Wysong with total confidence, as I have for the past fifteen years. Dr. Wysong, unique in the entire industry, is the only one who cuts through the bull.
While it is true that usually it is iodine deficiency that is the problem, too much iodine can also be a problem.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iodine-QuickFacts/

I realize that this link is relating to humans, but I posted it since Wysong seems to be under the impression that "too much iodine" doesn't exist.
 

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You are speculating. Read the link and you will see that the form of iodine is the key, not just "iodine."

I'm sure Wysong does not track hundreds of thousands, but if the iodophobia you seem to have is true, something would surface. That's the difference between speculation and actual experience.

I have been using this product since they first introduced it a decade or so ago. I have three cats and they are the pictures of health. One is approaching 20. Does that count?
 

rickjames

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Of course, why read a "long" article if it might threaten your preconceived ideas!
 
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