Vet said "no" to freeze dried Stelly & Chewy

[lindenhall57]

I recently took my kitty to the vet for a check up and told him I was feeding her freeze dried Stella & Chewy.  He replied "would you eat raw meat"?  He said there is a risk of getting parasites or other illness from it.   He said you don't know the source of the meat. I thought I was doing the right thing, but now I don't know.

 

[ldg]

Did you tell your vet that Stella & Chewy's is pasteurized? It is subject to a process that kills pathogens.

Many vets are not supportive of raw, biased against it, thus unfamiliar with it and the expanding commercial options.

Thankfully my vets were at least open-minded and admitted they knew nothing about it. Three years later, they do not think I made a bad decision, and the first year they "ooo"ed and "awww"ed at the changes in their body composition (more muscle, less fat) and how insanely silky soft they'd become.

 

[cicoccabim]

If a cat should answer that question- yes! That´s the food my system is developed to handle. Cats are evolved to handle much more bacteria and parasites than humans. The food they eat moves through the cat much faster than in humans, they have short intestines- which is where parasites could be transferred to the cat. The acid in their stomach is very aggressive. So if there is some bacteria or parasite in the meat, the cats body makes it very hard for them to survive. Cats are evolved to eat raw meat- and in the wild they rarely eat fresh, thawed from the freezer- meat. ..... Their teeth tells that they eat meat. Take a look at feline nutrition (.com?) and read about it. 

I feed my cat raw, and she has never looked and seemed to feel better than now. As long as you are careful with your hygiene when preparing the food, and make sure that the meat you feed is freeze-dried or has been in the freezer, the risk is minimal. I would consider finding a vet that supports, or at least tries to understand, your choice of food for your cat.

 

[ldg]

Give your vet these links. Please watch the video on HPP: http://www.stellaandchewys.com/safety.php

And on sourcing of ingredients:
http://www.stellaandchewys.com/why.php

 

[ldg]

I also hope your vet used "pathogens," not "parasites." Parasites - worms - are killed by freezing. Easily addressed. Protozoa are killed by commercial freezing processes. Just an issue of proper sourcing. As to bacteria, here is an article for you and your vet. (Obviously none of this is a concern with a product like Stella & Chewy's - treated with high pressure pasteurization). http://www.thecatsite.com/a/feeding-raw-to-cats-safety-concerns

 

[catpack]

I second everything LDG has stated. I too have been lucky that my current vet knows my opinion on nutrition and is open-minded (and even mostly supportive!)

She admits that her knowledge of nutrition is limited and is quick to refer to a local holistic pet food store when people ask her about diet suggestions. (She does still support the prescription diets; but, knows they have their place.)

I currently feed S&C in rotation with canned food (or use it as a treat/topper) as my cats will only eat it in the dry form. I'm still leery of raw in its purest form and my cats didn't like the frozen varieties I've tried.

Unless you have a good working relationship with your current vet, I do think I would look around for a new one. It took me trying 5 vets (at 3 clinics) to find one that practices vet med in a way I appreciate and that is open to holistic approaches too.

 

[lisamarie12]

When I mentioned raw to our vet, who has treated our FHV four year old cat, he was adamantly against it. While our vet is "salt of the earth" in just about everything, especially his gentle demeanor with the cats, I part ways with him on nutrition and rely on holistic vet info I found online - DVM Lisa Pierson, Karen Becker. One article of interest from Jean Dodd DVM re: the controversy between vets and raw feeding:


Our little FHV (who also had IBD) is doing far better on mostly commercial raw than he ever did on canned alone. 

There is an interesting video with Jackson Galaxy and Margaret Gates (feline-nutrition.org); midway through the interview, Margaret states that vets who see cats who are raw fed are often pleasantly surprised at how well the cats look, the good health they are in, that it's basically a learning curve for some vets (those who are open-minded).


Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: vets in general, maybe they see their clients / pets once or twice a year at best. Someone mentions raw and they think the person will buy some e.g., chicken breasts, throw it in pets' food bowl and leave it for free feeding several hours. 

Next time you see your vet, maybe take a copy of the AVMA's 2012 position on raw which states:

"The AVMA discourages the feeding to cats and dogs of any animal-source protein that has not first been subjected to a process to eliminate pathogens ..."

https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pa...imal-Source-Protein-in-Cat-and-Dog-Diets.aspx

HPP is that process that eliminates pathogens, you feed HPP S&C's, case closed.

That being said, a lot of work still needs to be done to educate vets / AVMA re: balanced, home-made raw, non-HPP diets because many cats (and dogs) thrive on these diets, clearly as we see on this forum daily.  

Have a great day.

 

[lisahe]

I agree with the others: Stella & Chewy's is one of the safest foods you could feed. Our vet, too, has limits in her support of raw feeding, though she's all for HPP foods. I just don't tell her about the RadCat! (Like @LDG's vet, though, she's very open-minded. She recommends reading Lisa Pierson's site and would, I suspect, approve of RadCat's testing.) I think our vet has seen cases of things like @LisaMarie12 mentions: I know she's seen salmonella poisoning (I don't know the source) and, reading between the lines, it sounds like she's also dealt with malnutrition where people fed unbalanced raw foods.

There are two things that strike me as odd about @lindenhall57 's vet's question about eating raw meat: first is that some people just love steak tartare (and then there's sushi!) and second is that cats also eat whole, uncooked, unprocessed, and untested mice and birds, too.

 

[LTS3]

to what everyone else has said. Also, don't forget that it's YOUR cat and you make the decision on how to care for your cat in your home, including diet. if you want to feed freeze dried raw food, go ahead. The vet might not like it and may discourage you from feeding it. Be polite but firm about your decision when talking to the vet about what you feed. If the vet refuses to care for the cat because of what you feed, then you need to find a new vet.

 

[maureen brad]

By that logic humans should never eat a darn thing. when you get a frozen meal do you know the source of the meat? I believe Stella & Chewy's does list meat source on their site. If not I would bet they would tell you. There is risk to feeding a cat ANYTHING and having them get sick if it isn't handled correctly, stored correctly etc. My son works at a pet food store. In the summer the warehouse they store food in is easily 100 degrees. Ask your vet the source of meat Purina uses, or Friskies uses. Ask him if he knows how long the food store has bags of kibble on the shelf and if he can guarantee you they are safe.

 I am sorry if I sound hostile. It is not directed at you but at your vet. I would bet money he has no idea the source of ingredients used in the 'prescription ' diets I am sure he sells at his clinic.

 Stella and Chewy's uses HPP, that is as close to a guarantee as you will have on any food.

 

[goingpostal]

Ask your vet if he would eat kibble or if he knows the source of that meat.  Sounds like this vet is clueless and I wouldn't take his advice on food at all, comparing an obligate carnivore to human digestion?  If bacteria or well sourced meat are a concern, you can't get much better than Stella and Chewys but the vast majority of raw feeders are feeding meat they can get from just about anywhere, from the grocery store to the side of the road, and having no issues whatsoever.  My cat has been eating a mix of grocery store meat, commercial bought, hunted, feeder mice I bred for several years and doing fantastic, especially compared to her puking, upset tummy, heavy sheddng days of vet recommended kibble. 

 

[sphyngalscrazy]

It's a wonderful easy and fast way to serve raw. You are doing the right thing.

 

[gbin]

My wife and I are wildlife biologists who have worked mostly with carnivores, including felids.  Folks' comments above about cats being evolutionarily designed to consume raw animal flesh without taking harm from it are spot on.  There's also scientific evidence demonstrating that they do better on such a diet, and more recently even that they prefer it.  Individual preferences will of course vary, though, and can be shaped by prior experience.

Further, we've spent most of our careers working in zoos, where I can assure you various carnivores (including cat species) are routinely fed raw meat diets, with no harm whatsoever coming to the animals or their keepers as a result.

Veterinarians can be ignorant on this or that subject just as can be other people.  Unfortunately, they can be as unwilling to admit or unable to see their areas of ignorance as other people, too, and that sometimes prompts them to speak with authority about things they don't really understand.   Pet owners who encounter this can help the affected vets and the vets' other clients by gently but firmly refuting their erroneous assertions and urging them to study up on the areas in question.

Gerry

 

[newvillemom]

I have personal experience with freeze dried food. I gave my cat a natural food with "raw boost" which was freeze dried raw food. He got so constipated/blocked up, I had to take him to an emergency clinic , where he was sedated, and received several enemas and disempactions. He was there for 3 days. And no, before you ask, he wasn't just eating dry/freeze dried food. I fed him wet several times a day. Im not a fan of the freeze dried option. It made him very sick.

 

[ldg]

N newvillemom , Nature's Variety Instinct "raw boost" kibble is not freeze dried cat food. It is kibble with some freeze dried pieces in it. This is not at all the same thing as feeding freeze dried raw food, which one rehydrates. You add water to freeze dried raw food before you feed it. And Nature's Variety Instinct frozen raw foods are notable for having a high bone content that makes many cats constipated.

I think it is very important to distinguish between brands anyway. One freeze dried food may be nothing like another freeze dried food.

Your experience and relating it to "freeze dried" is akin to me saying that I don't like canned food because I tried one brand of canned and it didn't agree with my cat. There are many, many brands and types of canned foods with different ingredients. The same holds true these days for actual freeze dried raw foods - which NV Instinct Raw Boost isn't.

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/instinct-raw-boost-healthy-foods-pets

"Instinct Raw Boost brings you grain-free kibble plus freeze dried raw pieces together in the same bag."

Ingredients example in chicken: Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Tapioca, Chicken, Menhaden Fish Meal, Tomato Pomace, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Freeze Dried Turkey, Natural Flavor, Freeze Dried Chicken (including Freeze Dried Ground Chicken Bone), Freeze Dried Turkey Liver, Pumpkinseeds, Potassium Chloride, Montmorillonite Clay, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Carrots, Apples, Cranberries, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Taurine, Butternut Squash, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Broccoli, Dried Bacillus coagulans Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Apple Cider Vinegar, Salmon Oil, Dried Chicory Root, Blueberries

Note all of the "meal" ingredients. Those are not in raw foods. This is not freeze-dried raw. Not at all. It is kibble with some FD raw in it.

 

[gbin]

newvillemom, your post prompts me to make it clear that I was only speaking about raw meat cat food (as that's apparently what lindenhall57's vet was addressing), not freeze-dried raw meat cat food.  That being said, I can't imagine how using freeze-dried cat food could cause constipation (presumably from dehydration?) if the food was rehydrated before being fed to a cat.  And surely every company that makes freeze-dried cat food directs people to rehydrate it before feeding it out?...

In any event, nvmom, I'm glad your cat was OK in the end (no pun intended)!

Gerry

 

[ldg]

gbin NV Instinct Raw Boost isn't raw food. It's kibble with pieces of freeze dried raw in it.

 

[gbin]

Thanks for clarifying, LDG.  We must have been writing our posts at the same time.

Gerry

 

[presouz]

Sad to say, after having a diabetic cat for over 11 years, I found out VETS are not really properly trained in nutrition, they are only doing what the pet food sales reps tell them too. So you do your research and you make up your own mind, best of luck.. 

 

[LotsOfFur]

This thread is very informative and has lots of information that can be passed on to the open minded vets in our lives! Thank you everyone!

L lindenhall57 How did the check up go? I bet when you take your kitty in for his next annual checkup that the vet won't even remember this discussion with you. Keep doing what you're doing, I bet your kitty looks great and is healthy!