Very Timid Crew, Need Advice

[5starcathotel]

Apologies in advance for the length of this!

Short version, I have 4 cats, all are former strays who showed up at my back door. Unfortunately, I missed the 'golden age' of domestication for all of them...and their level of fear of anything new has reached unacceptable levels. I know how to get them to trust me again (food, treats, toys...), but beyond that, I need advice on how to teach them to not react with abject terror to a vet visit or a visitor / cat sitter.

This week was the tipping point. I had to take a business trip, so last weekend I took all 4 to be boarded at my vet's office. Just getting them into carriers was nothing short of traumatic, for me and them. My previous system of setting up a barrier and corraling them one-by-one into a bathroom, where I could then wrap them up and put them in a carrier without much fuss....utterly failed!! They decided to just punch through the barrier, rather than enter the bathroom.

Overall, it took nearly an hour to get them all rounded up. There was much screaming (by them), and much crying (by me and them). But in the end, they made it to the vet's office, and though one did bite me, I didn't have to stop by the hospital for a pint of replacement blood.

While being boarded, I decided it was a good opportunity to update their vaccinations and get their physicals done. The vet reports they were unable to do any of that. Even with a mild sedative mixed into their food today, the cats were simply too terrified to be handled. (I had put 3 of them in a suite, thinking they would be happier together, but it seems maybe they just amplified each other's fear).

I plan to pick them up tomorrow - I expect it will be fun getting them back into their carriers! Assuming we all get home in one piece, I will start to repair my relationship with each of them....I'm not taking anything forgranted here, last weekend was a serious breach of their trust. For a couple of them, it may be a long road to regain it. But I understand well how to make friends with a cat, so I'm not too worried, yet.

But is there any hope that, as former strays, and still very skittish, they can learn to relax a bit...maybe even say "hi" to a human visitor?

Some detail on the cats and their history/personality:

Hobo is the oldest, at 11yo, and really the one that trusts me absolutely. Tomorrow when he comes home, he will wander from room to room for a bit, yowling loudly, just to let the world know he is home. Then he will plant himself on my chest/lap while we watch TV all weekend. I did not have any trouble getting him into his carrier - he objects (hisses), but once I have hands on him, he doesn't struggle or get violent in any way. He doesn't like going to the vet, but again, he's never been a problem by himself, for boarding or exams.

Dory is probably 3yo. She showed up at my back door 2 years ago, with 2 kittens in tow, looking very skinny and mangy. So it really didn't take long for her to bond with me initially (OMG, you have food?? I love you!), though we've had our ups-and-downs since. After getting her fixed, she snuck out, and stayed out, for almost 3 months before moving back inside. But since she's showed zero interest in going out, always hangs out near me, will rub on my legs at meal times, and let me walk up and pet her pretty much anytime. She follows me to bed and sleeps at the foot of my bed about 50% of the time.

But, Dory also has quite a memory. She once got a feather-string toy (DaBird) wrapped around her, and tore back and forth through the house in complete terror trying to "escape" the evil that was chasing her. It took 12 to 18 hours before I could cut the strings and remove the toy from her. To this day, if I bring out Da Bird (or similar) for another cat...Dory will retreat to another room. She was also the first to break through my 'barrier' last weekend, and I had to chase her, a lot.

Also, Dory did nip at me when I was trying to get her into a carrier....but not hard. She didn't break the skin, she just wanted to let me know she didn't want to go. But I do worry I have *broken* my relationship with her, and will need to make a concerted effort to rebuild it.

Blue is one of Dory's offspring, and has some obvious Siamese / Tonkinese genes. At 2yo, she is still the most energetic and acrobatic cat I've ever even heard of!! She's not particularly fearful - even when I run a noisy vacuum, I have to get really close to her tree before she will run away. But she doesn't like being pet, at least not with hands. She *loves* to rub on feet (especially if I am wearing socks), and play with her toys, and the other cats, and a laser pointer, and ghosts, and...

Blue was actually relatively easy to get into a carrier. She made me work for it, by climbing / clinging to the back side of her cat towers, and I'm sure if I didn't wrap her in a towel and firmly secure her, she would have Freddy Kruger'd me and squirmed away.

But again, I don't think she's really fearful, or holds "grudges". She is very smart, but I expect a few cat treats, and some laser pointer time, and all will be forgiven.

Violet is...well, she's an indoor stray. (I named her after a Shrinking Violet). She is the only one to have actually bitten me last weekend, and drawn blood (through a thick towel, no less). It is strange with her though, because most mornings around 5am, she will jump on my bed and start grooming me (licking my hair), and allow me to pet her, and she will purr vigorously at this time. She will also eat cat treats from my hands. And play with Da Bird or a laser pointer. But outside of those very specific cases, she never chooses to interact with me.

Violet is the one that I felt had to be isolated, because the last time she was boarded in a suite, she was so desperate to escape, the staff discovered her hanging from the suspended ceiling tiles!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi - let me see if I can touch base with a couple of people who may be able to give you some help;
F FeralHearts Jcatbird do you have a moment for the OP's situation? Thanks!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Furballsmom hollered for one of the people I was thinking of, so let me add, @ashade1, any thoughts on this?

 

[Jcatbird]

Hey! Okay. A lot to cover here. Yes! Not only is there hope but I have yet to have a cat who did not , at least, learn to tolerate invading people. They may not run up to be petted but they don’t have a stroke either. I have two now that I am working with who have similar issues to yours and a third that is a hermit biter. All are improving. I have had worse and they actually found trust and calm.
First off, I would try to never board them outside their home. They may hide from a caregiver but their secure location is intact. Moving them should only be done as a have to, such as a vet visit. I also suggest practice vet visits where nothing happens other than meeting staff. Don’t even open the door. Petting through the door is okay. If the cat allows the visits after time then I allow mine to check out an exam room when nothing is going to happen. This is time consuming but well worth it if you ever have a sick kitty. A lower stress level can be life saving.
A carrier should be used as a second home and not just a means of going somewhere bad. You can still work on this. I leave carriers (door removed) out at all times as a bed and meals are placed beside them. Toys are often tossed in and sometimes a sprinkle of catnip.
Top loading carriers are available now and you might need one. A larger carrier than a cat needs is also helpful. They don’t feel like you are cramming them in a coffin. You can also hide a carrier inside a box. Sneaky and underhanded and won’t be likely to work more than once or twice. Might get your cats back home right now though.
Let’s start with Violet. She is an indoor stray? Meaning someone abandoned her? A lost or left behind cat has specific issues. They are emotionally hurt. Who wouldn’t be sad? Who do you really trust after that? Just how safe is this new human love? I feel like she needs a super bond. With all of these cats I strongly suggest that each one be fed alone for a bit so you can give one on one bonding time. They are all more likely to allow touching, talking and other interaction at that time. I often use a brush or comb as an after meal relaxation device. Also once you have a very calm cat, this is a chance to allow someone else to feed. Let them do it with you present. Tone of voice is important so have them mimic how you speak to the cats until they know that new voice. Crash Corse introductions rarely work with strays or ferals. Crash Corse anything rarely works.
Eye contact is always an issue. If a cat feels threatened or scared and you add eye contact, you just lost the battle. Blue is her own mistress. She owns the world. The Tonkinese / Siamese makes it so. The bonding with her is going to be a lifetime affair and usually one main person. They can be your baby if they choose but also your Queen. Lol You get her permission for things with a nudge to show you are the human and have the food. My Mackie opens doors and food with only a drop of that bloodline. It sounds like Blue respects you. You just need that one on one time.
Dory sounds the same as the other three to me. She needs to feel closer. They all trust you but are lacking a little more motivation to step out of their security blanket for you. Are they usually just with you? Do you have any other “cat people” who visit and have that knack with cats?if not then maybe you can appeal to a rescue person or foster volunteer to visit and spend a few minutes on a regular basis. Perhaps a young family member who loves cats. That regular exposure really makes a difference. No one should pursue the cats. They can call them or talk to them, encourage them to come for petting or brushing but no pursuit. Let kitty come to them. Eye contact should be initiated only by the cat. As for Hobo, sounds pretty normal for a cat! Fear is always a survival mechanism for cats that have lived on their own. Try doing the one on one at feeding, brushing, combing and good relaxing things to see if your bond expands. I think it will.
The vet should have found a way to give the shots. A cat in a carrier , with head turned to the back can be pinned down and stuck. Leather gloves may be needed but if the shot is crucial then there should be a creative way to figure it out. Cats running loose in a suite is a different matter. Especially three together. Your poor vet! They can’t just chase them like a calf at a rodeo. The cat would be permanently traumatized. One cat at a time on these things makes life easier for all. I know this all sounds like a lot of work but it really is just minutes here and there. It can save you hours of chase, catch and bite time. Get them caught and back home and start your making up time with a quiet visit at meal time each night. They will forgive you. I would also get rid of the bird toy that attacked Dory. There are lots of toys available that won’t haunt poor Dory. If you give them a string toy make sure it is one with an easily breakable string for safety or do not leave a cat unattended with it. I am so glad you caught her before you needed a vet. Just like for children, toy makers should take care of the materials they use and the warnings issued for safety. Accidents happen. I hope some of this helps. It does take a lot of patience but you obviously have that and lots of love for them. You’re a great cat person and doing an awesome job with them. Please post back if you need me to clarify or need other tips. Everyone here will want to help.

 

[FeralHearts]

I agree whole heartily with what Jcatbird has said.

I have a couple of questions though too.
How long have they all been inside?
Is the house "busy" or more quiet?

I, like you, didn't bring in some of my outside gals until after that "Golden age" - they are nearly 5 1/2 years old.

About the boarding - I have to agree not to, but, in saying that I also understand it's sometimes needed. I had to do it once - I will try never to do it again.

When Mia (one of my Ferals now indoors for 2.5 months) became seriously ill it was 4 days before I was suppose to be the other side of the country at my nieces wedding. With the seriousness of her condition I couldn't leave her for 5 days to be looked after by someone. Tons of meds etc. and my family would have never gotten over it if I didn't show. I found a place, a good place, willing to take in a feral, look after her, and give her various medications. So I did.

When I went to pick her up - holy cow - it was like meeting a different cat. She had ripped into two people bad - right through thick leather gloves and even when I tried to get her out of the cage - I was scared. She was insane. Normally Mia is very peaceful, frightened of her own shadow, but peaceful. It was so bad I nicked named her Cujo. I was shocked at the personality change.

Boarding, now matter how good the place is are freaks cats out - the smells, the people moving all over the place - strange noises. So whenever possible it is best to avoid IF you can.

Getting the cats into the carriers: I really like what Jcatbird does; leaving the carriers out all the time. I can't all the time, but, I do something similar. About two days before a vet visit, I pull them out when I know they'll be hanging out, open them up, put catnip and a treat or so in them and leave the doors open. At first they get upset - after an hour or so they walk around and all over the place and ignore it or check it out. By the time Vet day comes the "shock" of "OMG that thing!" is not there. I slowly gather, very calm. (I do swear cats are psychic and know what the plan is!)

Try not to be in a position where you have to chase. Give yourself plenty of time.

Calming them: This is a thing of time and patience. When I first brought Mia in , if I so much as lightly coughed - she booked it into her safe corner. Terror will be in their blood. Living outside is a tough life, every noise, even the wind, could be a threat. They are always on high alert.

I have a very quiet home for the most part. I've tried to add new sounds slowly. My moms been here a lot and she will go down and talk quietly to Mia. It took nearly a week, but Mia no longer runs when she hears her. Slow and slow. I have to say I'm Jealous a bit that Blue is okay with the Vacuum. That is one noise - no way it will ever not be an issue. I've accepted that reality.

I have to say that I did chuckle a bit about Violet hanging from the tiles. WOW!

Spending time quietly with them each is another good idea of Jcatbird's. Brushing etc. Exposing them to various noises slowly and allowing them to adjust and know they are "safe".

I hope this helps a little. Mostly it's time. Time and more time.

You are an amazing soul for taking them all in like you have. XO

 

[Furballsmom]

Does softly played music help in these situations? Or are they still at the point they don't even really hear it/can't relax into it, because their systems are too tightly wired for outside feral behaviors/reactions?

I'm chuckling a little bit over the vacuum - my boy, an indoors housecat for all of his 13 years, H.A.T.E.S. the vacuum.
I personally think it's the pitch of the sound of the motor, and frankly I don't blame him - I don't like it either LOL

 

[Jcatbird]

All of my cats run from the vacuum. I try to shut them in a different room until I am finished but even that leaves some spooked and some just give me a dirty look. Some of my cats do respond to music. Furballsmom had a good idea with that. I think she also has experience with calming scents. You might try some of those.
I just re rescued a kitty. I had to find her first. She was lost in a home in another state for over a week. I wasn’t even sure she was still there. I went inside by myself and in perfect silence. No kitty. I finally called her name softly and she did come to me scrunched down low to the ground. I let her step towards me first. I did not look directly at her but extended my arm down with palm turned away from her. She came and bumped my hand. Then I slowly petted her and spoke her name. I was lucky. She was so glad to see me she let me pick her up to take her to the carrier. She actually scrambled from my arms to get into the back of the carrier. Happy for me to close the door she stayed glued to the back of the carrier. This had been a feral kitten raised from 8 weeks indoors. She was adopted as a perfectly happy and tame young juvenile , but after being dumped by the adootee after a short time, visiting a new vet and then being neglected ( and lost) by the temporary caregiver for awhile, she was terrified. She rode home four hours in silence and returned to her adored sibling to attack. Sounds hopeless? No! She is curled up next to me on my sofa asleep and we have company visiting. She is back to adoring her brother, playing and sleeping with me. It’s all loving them, patience and kitty forgiveness. It just takes time with them.
Good luck tomorrow. If kitties are upset try going in for them by yourself. They may be just as glad to see you as this kitty was to see me. To them you mean return to safety and love. Please let us know how it goes. There’s no place like home.

 

[Furballsmom]

I finally called her name softly and she did come to me scrunched down low to the ground. I let her step towards me first. I did not look directly at her but extended my arm down with palm turned away from her. She came and bumped my hand. Then I slowly petted her and spoke her name. I was lucky. She was so glad to see me she let me pick her up to take her to the carrier.

holy schamoly, what an INCREDIBLE story

 

[Furballsmom]

Let me give you this info of some of the many over-the-counter products that might work, keeping in mind that feliway, although sometimes it works like a charm, can sometimes either not work at all, or can actually cause more territorial issues;

Also, let me interject a note about actual chamomile tea, if you can get them to drink it or can mix it in their food - made from the teabags (not loose-leaf), a couple teaspoons a couple times a day, plus it can also be a calming, not drugging, aid for you too

There is Zylkene, Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe, there's Richard's Organics Pet Calm.
Also Thunderease has diffusers.
Some people have had good results with CBD oil.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo, 1800petmeds.

There are a couple of discussions about calming items, here's the link to one thread. Post #6 in this has a link to the second discussion.
Calming Treats?

 

[FeralHearts]

Jcatbird That is amazing! Proof cats DO remember!

Let me give you this info of some of the many over-the-counter products that might work, keeping in mind that feliway, although sometimes it works like a charm, can sometimes either not work at all, or can actually cause more territorial issues;

Also, let me interject a note about actual chamomile tea, if you can get them to drink it or can mix it in their food - made from the teabags (not loose-leaf), a couple teaspoons a couple times a day, plus it can also be a calming, not drugging, aid for you too

There is Zylkene, Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe, there's Richard's Organics Pet Calm.
Also Thunderease has diffusers.
Some people have had good results with CBD oil.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo, 1800petmeds.

There are a couple of discussions about calming items, here's the link to one thread. Post #6 in this has a link to the second discussion.
Calming Treats?

What an amazing list. I think I might try some of these for Charlie. He's so territorial and high strung. I Have both loose and bagged chamomile tea here. Not the loose you said. So I'm going to try the bagged one and let you know how that works for him. :-) XO

 

[5starcathotel]

An update...

I was able to get them all home, relatively easily. For the 3 that were in the 'suite', they were all hiding at the bottom / behind the cat tree.

It turns out that Hobo (the oldest / and most domesticated) was the 'problem child' in the suite. When I first sat down, and started talking / blinking at them, he was the one hissing, spitting, and growling. When I came within 3 ft, he started 'swatting' at the tree - to let me know he meant business. If I had tried to touch him at this point, he definitely would have scratched me. But I was patient, and waited for him to 'retreat' to the top of the tree, which made it very easy to pick him up and put him in his carrier. (Once I get hands on him, all hissing/growling/violence stops...)

Blue was pretty easy actually...though for such a small cat, the strength of her "death grip" on the cat tree was impressive! But I was able to work a towel around and eventually under her...and then she was in a carrier.

Dory was a bit more difficult, as she was against the wall, and I couldn't really get a towel around her. She went to the top of the tree as well, but when I tried to get her there, she lept to the 7ft wall, hanging from the top of it, and trying to push her way through the mesh ceiling! I held her in a towel, and when she got tired of hanging by her front paws, she went into a carrier pretty easy.

While all of that happened, the vet tech was trying to get Violet (who was in a boarding kennel by herself) into a box and then into the carrier. When I was all done, the poor girl said "wow, Violet is soooo quick!" She had escaped, and was now loose in the boarding area! She was hiding in a corner, behind some shelves. So I blocked off her routes of escape, draped her carrier with a dark towel, and gently / slowly slid it to about 8 inches away. Violet walked inside, layed down, and I just closed the door behind her!!

Now they are all home, I can say my fears of 'breaking' my relationships with them were unfounded.

- Hobo and Dory were immediately back to normal. Hobo has spent most of the day sleeping on or next to me, and Dory has come up on my desk to be pet several times. Also, she has no problem with me walking up and petting her when she is sleeping.

- Blue is a bit more reticent. When I tried to walk up to a tree she was sleeping in with Dory to pet them both, she decided to run away. But at this moment, she is sleeping on a tree on my desk, literally 3 ft away...so I think she'll be fine.

- Violet is surprising me. First, she has been meowing a lot....announcing her presence to the world! I have *never* heard her meow before....ever! Second, she has been walking up to me, while I'm sitting at my desk, and letting me pet her, a lot. She has never done that before!

 

[5starcathotel]

All of my cats run from the vacuum. I try to shut them in a different room until I am finished

Oh yes, this is part of my vacuuming ritual as well!!! Usher all the cats to the master bedroom, close the door, vacuum / mop the rest of the house....then enter the bedroom, usher the cats out, close the door again, finish vacuuming / mopping.

 

[FeralHearts]

Cats are very forgiving often. :-) :-)

Glad they are all back home safe and sound with you. I can image it's a big relief.

 

[5starcathotel]

How long have they all been inside?
Is the house "busy" or more quiet?

My house is, typically, very quiet.

Hobo has been an indoor cat for over 10 years...though he will sneak out to the back yard every few years, and become panic-stricken!!

Dory, Blue, and Violet have been indoors for ~2 years...though Dory did spend the fall of 2016 outside. It was just after I had her spayed....and I think she decided she didn't really like humans!! But her kids (Blue and Violet) were living inside, and it got cold, and both enticed her to move back inside. Now I can leave the back door open all day, and *none* of these 3 will step outside. Basically, "been there, didn't like it, not going".

 

[5starcathotel]

Let’s start with Violet. She is an indoor stray? Meaning someone abandoned her?

No, I just mean she is (or maybe was, see above) the cat that doesn't really want to interact with me much. She chooses to spend her days in a room I (and the rest of the cats) are not in, sitting in windows, watching the outside world. Outside of very specific conditions ( early AM ), she never seeks affection from me. She lives inside, but only because that is where the food, and water, and beds, and trees, and windows are!

 

[5starcathotel]

Top loading carriers are available now and you might need one.

Hehe, yes, I agree 1000x!!! All 4 of my carriers (two plastic, two soft) allow top loading... because otherwise getting Hobo into a carrier was harder than putting toothpaste back in the tube!

 

[Jcatbird]

That’s pretty hard! I am glad you have them. It sure beats holding the carrier on the end while you try to funnel a cat in! Sending good vibes for all!