Use of dog Revolution on cats

[catsallaround]

Abbysmom understood but I had not scene anyone post that the larger dogs size were NOT the same how it is in advantage(others(frontline/frontline plus...) I don't know as I have never worked with them) and really wanted that out. And the fact many times there is not a vet to ask, that would be the best obviously but theres reasons many can't answer-some just choose not to get involved others understand they really are not allowed to give that info out.

The makers would go broke if EVERYONE knew this.

So for my previous post I am not a vet/anything of importance I just have done this on well over 50 cats(breaking doses of advantage) and far as the revolution I looked at many sites and where I got this dose from was a person in the know and she has plenty of cat experience rescuing. Do it at your own risk

 

[nerdrock]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

DE is wonderful for treating externally, i.e., fleas on a cat, in the carpeting, etc. but will do nothing for fleas if taken internally. It will kill any internal parasites but fleas are not internal. Folks that mix DE with food usually do so to control internal parasites only.

DE is "diatomaceous earth" which is made of small crustaceans called diatoms. DE is like a fine powder to us humans and mammals but like sharp shards of glass to insects which cuts the exoskeleton and causes the insect to die so taking it internally will not do a thing for the external fleas.

I got ahead of myself, lol. For some reason I started thinking fleas=worms and worms can be treated internally with DE. We do sprinkle it on them (dogs can cat) and leave it on them for about 5-10 minutes before brushing them every few days. We also have unscented baby wipes that we keep in a container of lemon water, we wipe them down with that once a day or so... apparently lemon water repels fleas. It seems to work and wiping them with the lemony baby wipes is so much easier than spritzing everyone with lemon water, lol. I guess I'm also paranoid too, they get checked over with a flea comb a lot - if I find dirt or a flea they go into the bathtub immediately for a bath in dawn, then when they dry we do DE and brush them.

I'm overly paranoid about putting chemicals on my pets because of Sadie's (dog) epilepsy, so I try not to use them whenever possible.

 

[hissy]

Everyone giving dosing information about these products needs to bear in mind one thing. What works for one cat under your control, might not work for another. What if the cat in question is ill? Underweight, allergic to the product. Any time you use any product to control parasites on your cats, be it fleas or worms or ticks- you should do so under the supervision of your vet. That way you are covered should something go wrong. These meds a POISONS people. Bear that in mind when you are dispensing dosage information about products used on both dogs and cats. You are putting toxic products on your cat.That is not something to take lightly.

I care for a large clowder of indoor cats. I sat down with my vet years ago and we hashed out the best way to control fleas and keep these guys safe. I switch what I use every month because the fleas become resistant if you use the same product every month. I have a formula my vet gave me to figure out the dose, and yes it goes by weight, but also by the health of the cat.

 

[yosemite]

I absolutely agree with Hissy. Hissy has been tending to cats and feral cats for many years and probably has forgotten more than the rest of us will ever know.

Flea meds definitely are a poison and should only be used on the advice of an expert, i.e., your vet. Mika was terribly allergic to Revolution but was OK with Advantage.

Just because someone has had some "luck" doing their own thing does not make it safe to do so. Often the money we save may end up costing us more in the long term if the cat gets ill and needs to go to the vet for more than a flea issue.

 

[catsallaround]

Funny this came up-mail came quite late and I got my revolution(different brand name that's much cheaper sold in another country but same ingredients)

A rule of thumb I follow is dose on a day where if vet cares needed its available-so shocked when I see ppl dosing on sat night and have a reaction.

Also with Mika was her tab picked up by revolution?

My question here still stands WHAT do you do if your vet follows the books and refuses to give out the dosing advice on advantage??? or other products?

I have one vet who said yeah its fine but would not go further then that and the others just state no you cant do that.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by catsallaround

Funny this came up-mail came quite late and I got my revolution(different brand name that's much cheaper sold in another country but same ingredients)

A rule of thumb I follow is dose on a day where if vet cares needed its available-so shocked when I see ppl dosing on sat night and have a reaction.

Also with Mika was her tab picked up by revolution?

My question here still stands WHAT do you do if your vet follows the books and refuses to give out the dosing advice on advantage??? or other products?

I have one vet who said yeah its fine but would not go further then that and the others just state no you cant do that.

Mika was fine with the alternative.

If your vet supplies your product he/she will give you the correct dosage. If they won't give you dosage it could possibly be they are covering their butts because they don't want to be sued should something happen with the product you did NOT buy from them and therefore are not certain of the ingredients even if you tell them you are sure the ingredients are the same.

I honestly don't blame them at all. If the vet is someone you have been going to for years and knows you well, it may be a different story and they would be willing to trust the information you give them.

 

[otto]

Personally I value my cats' well being, health and lives way too much to mess around with putting medicine on them that was made for dogs.

It is a high risk that I am not willing to take, and I am frankly astonished at how many are.

 

[strange_wings]

Originally Posted by otto

Personally I value my cats' well being, health and lives way too much to mess around with putting medicine on them

Bit of a stickler on this: Flea topicals are not "medicine". If more people would call them pesticides, which they are, maybe misuse would decrease and people would respect how dangerous these products have the potential to be - even when it comes in a cat labelled tube. So many buy from stores, online, and from their vet (and get legit products, I'm not talking about fakes) and are so familiar with these products they don't realize something as simple as having an older cat with a bit of early renal issues can make a pesticide deadly.
Respect the fact that these products are poisons.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Bit of a stickler on this: Flea topicals are not "medicine". If more people would call them pesticides, which they are, maybe misuse would decrease and people would respect how dangerous these products have the potential to be - even when it comes in a cat labelled tube. So many buy from stores, online, and from their vet (and get legit products, I'm not talking about fakes) and are so familiar with these products they don't realize something as simple as having an older cat with a bit of early renal issues can make a pesticide deadly.
Respect the fact that these products are poisons.

Yes. Agreed that medicine was a poor choice of word. But you did not copy my entire statement, the omission of which negates the point I was trying to make: whether you call it medicine or pesticide, I would NEVER use a topical flea product made for dogs on my cats

Personally I value my cats' well being, health and lives way too much to mess around with putting medicine on them that was made for dogs.

 

[strange_wings]

You try posting on a cell phone with a 3.1" screen. I was removing the other sentence and the phone lagged when I was hitting the backspace, when it stopped it had taken out a few words of the other sentence. It's a pain in the butt to redo. It wasn't me thinking "hey, I want to leave that out, too!".

But it doesn't make much difference. It's not suddenly medicine when it's put on a dog and the formulas for Advantage, Revolution, and regular Frontline are the same. They just change the amount and label on the tube. The tubes are measured for a dog, not specifically made just for them. It's still the same pesticides with the same risks. These pesticides were originally made for use on crops and against household pests, if anyone wants to get technical. It was discovered they'd work for livestock and smaller animals, and that for companion pets they could charge a lot for a small amount of the pesticide they use.

Note: it's the one size fits all dose quantities for both dog and cat sized doses that leads to overdoses in cats and dogs. Your cat measured tube may not be the safest quantity for your cat just because it falls into a broad dose range. A pesticide is still a pesticide.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

You try posting on a cell phone with a 3.1" screen. I was removing the other sentence and the phone lag when I was hitting the backspace, when it stopped it had taken out a few words o the other sentence. It's a pain in the butt to redo.

But it doesn't make much difference. It's not suddenly medicine when it's put on a dog and the formulas for Advantage, Revolution, and regular Frontline are the same. They just change the amount and label on the tube. It's still the same pesticides with the same risks.

Not all the dog and cat formulas are the same and interchangeable. There are dog formulas that are not safe for cats.

And human error is great. How many people are going to mess up the measurements? More than won't.

In addition, often the companies will change the formulas without any warning. So what was "safe" in a dog product for the cats in one package may not be safe the next time one buys it.

(Examples: merial/frontline is about to introduce a new frontline product with a stronger tick protection for dogs only, it will not be safe for cats. Another example is the product Vectra, the dog formula is not at all safe for cats, and the packaging for each is very like the other. Advantix, by Bayer is death to cats, and yet is is now available OTC, sitting on a shelf right next to the advantage )

So, my stand remains that I think it is a terribly dangerous idea to buy flea pesticides made for dogs and put them on cats. Regardless of brand, or whether someone calls them pesticides or (incorrectly as I did) medicine, people should not be putting dog flea prevention products on cats.

And if they do, they should at least be responsible and NOT tell other people to do it.

 

[strange_wings]

I listed the formulas that do, you quoted my listing of them. They are the only formulas that are, not some new one, not another brand entirely, and not anything that has other added pesticides toxic to cats. Everyone has been very clear about this in the entire thread, too.

Shelters, rescues, and some cat owners with double to triple digit number of cats do this safely. You don't have that many cats and have no need to worry how you'd come up with a few hundred dollars worth of flea topicals. If you ever find yourself in that situation (needing a topical for 20+ cats) then come back and share your opinion on that matter rather than condeming those that have to make do with what they can. Those that do usually do this with their vet's assistance, which I recommend and many others in here have to.

I have mentioned before about having to splint cat doses of Advantage because they put too much in a tube and I have small female cats. My vet suggested it.

Of course my take on these products entirely is probably different than what most people have. Use them the least amount of time as possible and do everything you can to keep fleas out of your yard. There hasn't been 15-20 year studies of what their use in cats does. How do we know they aren't contributing to the rise in senior cat health problems? They are poisons after all.

ETA: Because I bet many on here are guilty of this. Don't use a topical (no matter where you purchase it) if your cat isn't getting veterinary care. Especially senior cats not getting annual check ups. This is the sort of thing that raises the risk of complications.

 

[goldenkitty45]

IMO I would NEVER use any kind of dog product on a cat - even if you think and read its the same ingredients. I would not want to risk the health/death of a cat using dog products.

Too late when the cat is very sick or dead to say "oh I guess I should not have used it". Thank God none of our pets have/had a flea problem!

 

[arlyn]

I'm just glad I live where there is no such thing as fleas and mosquitos are very rare, fly strike and heat stroke are the major outdoor hazards here.

 

[hissy]

Would you like to see the results of what using a flea product over the counter on a cat does? Here are two cats who were dosed with Top Spot and Flea and Tick Powder. Thankfully, now after months of vet visits and flushing out their systems they are healthy weight and doing so much better. The owner just said when I lambasted her for using these products that she was sorry- she was just trying to save money.

And now the same cats after months of meds, daily baths and TLC

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by hissy

Would you like to see the results of what using a flea product over the counter on a cat does? Here are two cats who were dosed with Top Spot and Flea and Tick Powder. Thankfully, now after months of vet visits and flushing out their systems they are healthy weight and doing so much better. The owner just said when I lambasted her for using these products that she was sorry- she was just trying to save money.

Oh those poor kitties!

Oh yes, I think all of us participating in this discussion would agree that those OTC products including Hartz, Zodiac, Sergeants, Top Spot and Bio Spot are horrible and should never ever be used. I never stop spouting that!

And of course Bayer ( Advantix-dogs ONLY and Advantage) going OTC has confused that issue quite a bit.

But the issue here is if it is safe to purchase DOG flea products and cut the doses and use them on cats.

I know many who do, and if one is highly experienced and methodical and knows to read every single package carefully every single time, and knows how to figure the dosages, knows the accurate weight of the cats being treated, and knows the ingredients to check for that are often added to dog formulas that are toxic or fatal to cats, I understand why people with many cats to treat might do it.

But in general it is not a safe practice, the general public is not that careful and so I try to discourage people from doing it.

<edit>One thing especially important. Many people are not very good at guessing the weight of their cats. Since weight is an important factor in flea pesticide dosages, this could have serious consequences.

 

[catsallaround]

I think bottom line is people need to stop and think.

It would take me 6 6-packs to treat my cats a month. You can argue ok I should have less and treat them with the "right" stuff. Its 60.99 at petsmart(according to website and pulled just cause petsmarts a well known place) You are talking 365 a MONTH!

I always think back to being in high school and they decided NO medicine is allowed except an emergency inhaler. Kids were driving/could smoke/work ft but no could not have 1 tylenol on them...Everything can be dangerous-a cat could be allergic to anything.

In the end don't take one persons opinion, research it all you can. If a vet told you the cat will be fine but had no idea whats wrong and it kept getting sicker you would be an idiot to keep torturing the cat and force feeding/giving meds to it without at least seeking another opinion. No one knows everything-kinda like online you got such a great world of info that you need to weed out.

In the end I hope anyone ever facing this will end up with healthy flea free cats in the end and not resort to something sold like hartz and those types of products(recently saw it happen-such a common thought-but its sold at my grocery store how bad could it be? hers were ok except some hair loss and when I told her how bad those are she dumped them on the spot)

I treated her cats for a fraction of the product she was using(and had failed to do much for the fleas!)

 

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by hissy

Would you like to see the results of what using a flea product over the counter on a cat does? Here are two cats who were dosed with Top Spot and Flea and Tick Powder. Thankfully, now after months of vet visits and flushing out their systems they are healthy weight and doing so much better. The owner just said when I lambasted her for using these products that she was sorry- she was just trying to save money.

Yes, those products are horrible. . .so wouldn't it be better if the owners could learn how to safely split a larger dose of something safer like Advantage so they wouldn't "have to" use the cheap but dangerous stuff like Hartz?

 

[catsallaround]

Agreed 100% Willowy!!!

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Willowy

Yes, those products are horrible. . .so wouldn't it be better if the owners could learn how to safely split a larger dose of something safer like Advantage so they wouldn't "have to" use the cheap but dangerous stuff like Hartz?

It would, conceivably, if they would learn how to do it properly. But many don't. So I will continue to be against the practice for the general public average joe for the reasons I've already stated earlier in this thread.