Urinary SO food

[zoes]

Hi folks!
I've heard conflicting information from various veterinary sources on this, so I thought I'd check with you guys for further insight.

Backstory: 6 year old female cat (spayed.) Currently on kibble and watered-down wet food daily. She has had idiopathic urinary cystitis and crystals twice now (a year apart.) Both times quickly identified because she was in the litterbox constantly, both treated with antiflammatories, pain meds, and a bag of Royal Canin Urinary SO food.

Both times, she saw an emergency vet because of course this always happens on a Saturday night at 9pm. The emerg vet suggested I feed her a bag of Urinary SO every 10 months or so to dissolve any crystals that may have formed and obviously to increase her wet food/water consumption as much as possible.

I took her to my regular vet this weekend for a checkup, who said she must be on Urinary SO constantly, and that I can't switch back and forth between her regular food and the Urinary SO.

I have no real issue with this. My only main concerns are that the ingredients for the Royal Canin Urinary SO food are not great (literally contains sawdust), and also that it took me ages to find a wet food she liked enough to eat and I'm not keen on starting that process over again, but if that's what's best for her I have absolutely no problem doing it.

But, red flags were raised when my vet, maybe reading the look on my face, launched into a 20-minute spiel about the quality of the cat food and that sounded like a sales pitch, saying that corn is actually a super healthy ingredient and that "good" pet food brands manipulate their ingredients list or source contaminated ingredients, etc. And I mean it's also possible that the Urinary SO food has less meat ingredients but is healthier for her in the long run, but the sales pitch really left me skeptical. She knew it and even stated that she doesn't get kickbacks from the sales, BUT she also mentioned learning a lot of this at a seminar and tour of the RC factory, so...

So I guess my question is: does anyone feed their cat Urinary SO periodically to control urinary crystals? Has that been successful for you in the past?

Also, does what my vet said alarm anyone else, or is it me that has a poor understanding of pet food and nutrition?

 

[LTS3]

It's perfectly fine to disagree with the vet when it comes to food Vets don't get much info on nutrition in vet school and some are influenced by Pet food companies and marketing. Of course a tour of the Royal Canin company won't say anything negative about the brand

There are alternatives to the prescription SO. See this:

https://thecatsite.com/threads/urinary-so-substitute.390347

Corn and other fillers are useless for an obligate carnivore.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I have fed RC SO to Feeby long term - not periodically, along with Hill's C/D. She's been on these foods since her bladder surgery 10 years ago (for her, it was oxalate stones), and hasn't had a stone since (knock on wood). Even with her not being diagnosed with cystitis, I am not willing to take a chance on her developing stones again - hence the reason for consistent use as opposed to periodically.

You could try what I have done recently, and that is add another brand of food you like better so that your girl is eating more than just the RC SO. I also added Fancy Feast pates when Feeby seemed to be waning on her interest in RC and Hill's. I just couldn't take her off the urinary care foods altogether, but at least this way she gets something other than just those foods alone. I am hoping that by having at least some urinary care foods in her diet, I can continue to keep her stone free. I did convert her from dry urinary care foods to canned only, just for the added water content. She has dry sitting out, but rarely eats any of it.

I can't comment on the understanding, or lack of, by vets regarding nutrition - many members will tell you that vets have no understanding of it at all. All I know is that these foods would seem to have prevented a recurrence of stones in Feeby, and that is good enough for me.

 

[zoes]

Hi. I have fed RC SO to Feeby long term - not periodically, along with Hill's C/D. She's been on these foods since her bladder surgery 10 years ago (for her, it was oxalate stones), and hasn't had a stone since (knock on wood). Even with her not being diagnosed with cystitis, I am not willing to take a chance on her developing stones again - hence the reason for consistent use as opposed to periodically.

You could try what I have done recently, and that is add another brand of food you like better so that your girl is eating more than just the RC SO. I also added Fancy Feast pates when Feeby seemed to be waning on her interest in RC and Hill's. I just couldn't take her off the urinary care foods altogether, but at least this way she gets something other than just those foods alone. I am hoping that by having at least some urinary care foods in her diet, I can continue to keep her stone free. I did convert her from dry urinary care foods to canned only, just for the added water content. She has dry sitting out, but rarely eats any of it.

I can't comment on the understanding, or lack of, by vets regarding nutrition - many members will tell you that vets have no understanding of it at all. All I know is that these foods would seem to have prevented a recurrence of stones in Feeby, and that is good enough for me.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Did you talk to your vet about mixing the Urinary food and the regular food? I ask because I've been told that Urinary foods only work well if they're fed exclusively. Something about the PH of the bladder - mixing in other foods can "undo" whatever the Urinary food does. I'm just wondering if your vet said something different, as I do like the idea of mixing a Urinary food with a better quality pet food for a "best of both worlds."

I agree on your last point. I guess I see it more like a medication or something, where it's probably not something you'd want to give your cat for no reason, but to treat a known health problem, it's better than the alternative. Which is what I was expecting my vet to say, but when she said that this food was literally healthier than a more meat-protein-heavy food for all cats (not just those with urinary issues) I started to question what I was being told.

 

[zoes]

It's perfectly fine to disagree with the vet when it comes to food Vets don't get much info on nutrition in vet school and some are influenced by Pet food companies and marketing. Of course a tour of the Royal Canin company won't say anything negative about the brand

There are alternatives to the prescription SO. See this:

https://thecatsite.com/threads/urinary-so-substitute.390347

Corn and other fillers are useless for an obligate carnivore.

Thank you for your support (and for hearing me vent!) It was really frustrating and actually left me feeling like I want to change vets, I felt like she was not hearing me at all or giving me room to disagree. I do like my vet clinic and have never encountered this kind of aggressive bias before. When I asked her specific questions about the food, she replied "I don't know, I'm not a cat nutritionist" and it was really clear that she was just parroting what was she told at this seminar.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Did you talk to your vet about mixing the Urinary food and the regular food? I ask because I've been told that Urinary foods only work well if they're fed exclusively. Something about the PH of the bladder - mixing in other foods can "undo" whatever the Urinary food does. I'm just wondering if your vet said something different, as I do like the idea of mixing a Urinary food with a better quality pet food for a "best of both worlds."

Those foods do help to regulate the PH of the urine, and by doing so they help to prevent the creation of stones/crystals. But in my mind some regulation is better than none. Plus, Feeby gets more of the care foods than the FF. And, btw, water intake also helps with keeping the PH of the urine at a more 'appropriate' level by flushing out the bladder more often. Thankfully, Feeby loves her water!!

My situation is also different from yours, as Feeby is 15+ yo and out of concern for an elderly cat, the vet felt mixing some other foods was better than seeing her lose weight if she continued to restrict her food intake because of only eating the care foods. He seemed to feel mixing foods would still give her some benefit from the SO and C/D.

 

[S1988]

I fed my cat Royal Canin Urinary SO for two years, and later on he got tired of it. For the past few months, I've been giving him regular food and supplementing his meals with DL-Methionine gel. Unlike the SO food, you don't need a prescription for the gel.

 

[BaileyCat]

This is from a vet that IS educated in feline nutrition:

“Prescription/therapeutic diet” is another label that is certainly not indicative of a high quality diet or one that is necessary.

These diets represent an area of the commercial cat food industry that is very misleading and, quite frankly, a source of embarrassment for this profession.

Many of these very expensive products contain corn, wheat, and soywhich have no logical place in your cat’s diet. These diets are often very high in carbohydrates and, of course, all of the dry versions are water-depleted. Many of them also contain by-products as the main – and often only – source of protein.

There is a LOT more to read! Scroll to the section that reads, Prescription/Therapeutic’ Diets
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats.

 

[cheesycats]

If you want to stick with the SO, use the canned variety only. A cat with crystal issues isn’t going to thrive on a dry only diet. Especially one with little to no meat.

I like to refer to vet diets as bandaids. You can definitely meet with a nutritionalist and formulate a cooked or raw meat based diet that will help combat urinary stones, there are also over the counter canned foods that are great for urinary issues, Both of those options would be the more heathy choices as opposed to the vet kibble.

I’d compare it to a human who slams coke all day everyday and ends up getting kidney stones. What would you do if the doctor gave you two choices, take this medicine that has not so great side effects, but continue drinking your coke or stop drinking coke and drink more water so you're adequately hydrated? Seems like a no brainer, at least to me. The vet industry is so brain washed by the big 3 who cut as many corners as possible and raise prices for abysmal foods and then refer to it as science because they have the history, power, and money to do so. It’s also any easy bandaid for ppl who just don’t want to or can’t feed their pets a proper diet.

It will never not be strange to me that the vet industry is one of the only industries that tell us highly processed foods with no meaningful ingredients are best. It simply isn’t true. A species appropriate diet will always be best and they can be tailored to certain health issues if need be for optimal results.

 

[mentat]

I have utilized RC SO, as well as other RC Rx diets with the St/Ox index to limit crystal accumulation. Your vet sounded prepared as she's likely encountered questions regarding quality of ingredients and popular opinion OTC of non-meat ingredients in cat food. She's likely had many babies come back to her obstructed, with fewer options now due to finances or patient condition. My kiddos and their urinary buds thrived on it. One would reobstruct off it, regardless of all his wet food, catching early before any azotemia, and got a PU back "in the day" when it was Rare surgery. Diet is the alternative to that surgery according to most vets treating urethral obstruction on repeat offenders. If SO alone controls it, without need for PU surgery, I count myself and the kitty woo fortunate.

After 4-8 weeks on the therapeutic Rx diet, I would start to consider other diet options. One only reobstructed once, years apart from his last UO, and it was partial as the vet could express his bladder with fairly firm pressure around the "grit" in his urethra. She stated she toured the facility without stating the value of that, all the testing and trials going into efficacy of the diets, palatability, and ingredient quality. I doubt they have "little nutrition" education; even the veterinary nutritionists I've utilized at Tufts and UC Davis supported these diets, with over 4 years in specialized study of nutrition for disease management atop their 4 years vet school, 4 years undergrad, with continuing education for their specialty annually. Which is why I pay them more for a phone consult than an exam with our feline internist. From one of my favorite "mainstream" vets, a vet nutritionist's perspective: The Biggest Myths about Vets and Nutrition | DrAndyRoark.com

From a vet student: "To be honest, 90% of our nutrition class was actually about large animal nutrition. The small animal lectures were given by a double-board certified internist and nutritionist who was paid BY THE SCHOOL and who, yes, happens to work for one of the big companies. This is only because there literally are not enough veterinary nutritionists to go around--we do not have one at our school. They teach us more how to critically evaluate a diet and explain how things are formulated and what labels on pet food really mean--and how little pet food is regulated by the government. It's actually pretty scary stuff."

As devil's advocate, I'm hesitant to feed new boutique diets, as they haven't been formulated and tested as safe by veterinarians, nutrition researchers, or lab/clinical studies. The scientist in me just doesn't want to risk my cat's health with trial and error of diets, even if AAFCO approved. My pets and extended family pets' history with the bigger, established, researched foods for over 30 years, always improving based on science and medicine, is our safety net, are fallback, secure knowing hundreds of animals in controlled settings were tracked for many years on our diets, with diagnostics and assessments to gauge effects at regulated intervals, before we ever offered it. Purina had the first scientific results proving cats need higher protein in their diet when they formulated "dehydrated shredded meat" to add to the kibble for palatability and protein, while also decreasing kcal/cup to get ahead of the pet obesity trend. We had to get nutritionist guided recipes for skin and immune allergies 20 years ago when Walthams was the only vet prescription option and our pets needed the kind of hydrolyzed protein options we have now (my Eleanor thrives on RC Ultamino with no more derm issues or treatments needed, woot!).

 

[mentat]

Your vet will use the Minnesota Urolith Center if a bladder stone is removed, a nonprofit organization started and funded by Hill's Pet Nutrition, who all the diagnostic labs and hospitals send stones to for analysis (Antech, Idexx, NCSU, KSU, etc all use them); over 20 years ago, my dog's and cat's stones were analyzed there for free. My vet chose to donate an annual amount for their service, but there are many who use the service without any donation. Hill's compiles the data to know what our pets' stones and crystals are and how to prevent them or treat them with diet effectively, and publishes/shares this data with clinics, schools, and other pet food companies. None of the smaller companies can do such data collection and analysis, even the ones with high sales and history of 5 yrs minimum (Weruva, Nature's Variety, Tiki i.e.). https://www.urolithcenter.org/